OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 356 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 121Likes
Reply
Thread Tools
post #10651 of 10658 Unread Today, 08:48 AM
Senior Member
 
stas3098's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Even if people can tell the difference in the showroom, they'll notice the price difference a lot more.

Again, there is no mass market for quality.

What we've seen, especially in the last 10 years, is that consumers will choose price and convenience over quality every time.

So people have widely settled for lossy audio, lower bit rate video streaming and phone camera photos.


The only reason LG must be pursuing OLED is that they fear the race to the bottom with the Chinese if they stay with LCD.
I'd say that the things are worst for audio than anything else, basically because truly lossless audio can only be found on torrents.


Try finding a legal version of Nirvana in lossless/studio quality and you'll end up with zilch. On most torrents Nirvana and countless others can be easily found in Lossless Quality like this (thanks to lossless audio buffs):


General
Complete name : D:\Nirvana - Nevermind (ORG Pallas)\11 - On A Plain.flac
Format : FLAC
Format/Info : Free Lossless Audio Codec
File size : 77.4 MiB
Duration : 3mn 17s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 3 289 Kbps
Album : Nevermind
Track name : On A Plain
Track name/Position : 11
Performer : Nirvana
Genre : Rock
Recorded date : 1991


Not that I would download it


For high quality video there's iTunes where there's almost everything in 1080p 5000kbps, not quite Blue ray but really close to it( ITunes uses HiP (5.1 or even high10) for compression which is tantamount to 10000 to 15000 BP (baseline 3.0 or main 3.0) which is used for streaming)


P.S if you truly care about quality of your audio than torrents are the only places where you can find really high quality audio. I guess it is this way because most people care about quality only when comes for free.

....

Last edited by stas3098; Today at 09:13 AM.
stas3098 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #10652 of 10658 Unread Today, 09:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
wco81's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 4,435
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 57
I haven't tried to sit down and really listen to differences between AC3 and DTS HD MA. My speakers probably aren't optimally placed and I care more about dialogue than effects or soundtrack most of the time.

But I know a lot of AVS members are more exacting on this.


As for the general consumer, even if 4K OLED looked way better, say comparable to the jump between old NTSC and ATSC, unless the prices are under $1k for a 42-inch display (and $1500 or less for 60-inch), people generally aren't going to be motivated enough to upgrade on a scale similar to the SD to HD transition, which was driven partly by the shutting off of analog broadcasts.

More than movies and TV shows, a new display type would have to demonstrate noticeable improvements for live sporting events (especially the spectacles like the Superbowl, Olympics, World Cup, etc.) at the same or lower price point.

Can OLED deliver equal or better motion resolution as plasma? Then again, most people are watching sports on LCDs and they don't seem to care.
stas3098 likes this.
wco81 is offline  
post #10653 of 10658 Unread Today, 09:35 AM
Senior Member
 
stas3098's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
I haven't tried to sit down and really listen to differences between AC3 and DTS HD MA. My speakers probably aren't optimally placed and I care more about dialogue than effects or soundtrack most of the time.

But I know a lot of AVS members are more exacting on this.


As for the general consumer, even if 4K OLED looked way better, say comparable to the jump between old NTSC and ATSC, unless the prices are under $1k for a 42-inch display (and $1500 or less for 60-inch), people generally aren't going to be motivated enough to upgrade on a scale similar to the SD to HD transition, which was driven partly by the shutting off of analog broadcasts.

More than movies and TV shows, a new display type would have to demonstrate noticeable improvements for live sporting events (especially the spectacles like the Superbowl, Olympics, World Cup, etc.) at the same or lower price point.

Can OLED deliver equal or better motion resolution as plasma? Then again, most people are watching sports on LCDs and they don't seem to care.
No OLED can't deliver better motion than plasma, but for me the motion on OLEDs is ok as is(certainly better than on LCD), but than again I'm not a big sports fan.


For me there's a quite noticeable difference between AC3 and DTS especially where dialogues are concerned. On DTS voices sound more natural at least in Game of Thrones. I have the third season of Game of Thrones in two qualities one HBO on demand (AC3) and the other BD rips from my Blu Ray (DTS) and DTS sounds noticeably better (more depth and clearer which is great for voices)

....

Last edited by stas3098; Today at 09:40 AM.
stas3098 is online now  
post #10654 of 10658 Unread Today, 02:14 PM
Advanced Member
 
SiGGy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lenexa, Kansas
Posts: 709
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
No OLED can't deliver better motion than plasma, but for me the motion on OLEDs is ok as is(certainly better than on LCD), but than again I'm not a big sports fan.
Can't or Doesn't?

The response time on the OLEDs is really fast, because of this they can change the drive to make the motion as good and perhaps better. You make it sound like plasma motion is perfect. When plasma motion suffers from motion dithering, phosphor lag, and flickering. I didn't see them playing any video which exacerbates the plasma's phosphor lag, motion dithering or flickering.

I guess it depends on how you define "better"...

If they add black frame insertion in and try some other techniques it can be just as good or better. Question is what other sacrifices are made to achieve better motion.

In the material I watched I didn't notice much motion bluring at all on the LG OLED.

-SiGGy
SiGGy is online now  
post #10655 of 10658 Unread Today, 02:53 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,089
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Even if people can tell the difference in the showroom, they'll notice the price difference a lot more.

Again, there is no mass market for quality.

What we've seen, especially in the last 10 years, is that consumers will choose price and convenience over quality every time.

So people have widely settled for lossy audio, lower bit rate video streaming and phone camera photos.


The only reason LG must be pursuing OLED is that they fear the race to the bottom with the Chinese if they stay with LCD.
So spot on.

I do look forward to the mainstreaming of better quality if/when OLED begins to displace LCD. But when I say that, I realize most people still won't care.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is online now  
post #10656 of 10658 Unread Today, 03:14 PM
Senior Member
 
stas3098's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
Can't or Doesn't?

The response time on the OLEDs is really fast, because of this they can change the drive to make the motion as good and perhaps better. You make it sound like plasma motion is perfect. When plasma motion suffers from motion dithering, phosphor lag, and flickering. I didn't see them playing any video which exacerbates the plasma's phosphor lag, motion dithering or flickering.

I guess it depends on how you define "better"...

If they add black frame insertion in and try some other techniques it can be just as good or better. Question is what other sacrifices are made to achieve better motion.

In the material I watched I didn't notice much motion bluring at all on the LG OLED.
I don't have any substantial complaints about the motion on OLEDs and I wouldn't change anything associated with it. I can just be a bit nit-picky at times that's all.


I never really observed phosphor trailing or flickering on ST60, however there's a dithering problem at hand. From what I can see Samsung's OLED TV doesn't suffer from these issues, howbeit it had some very slight blurring in Flight Club and I don't recall there being any blurring on plasma.


Driving OLED the way plasma is driven i.e via PWM or using something that imitates it (black frame insertion ) is madness in its purest unadulterated form.

Disclaimer

The following is hard to fathom for one that has high-school-only knowledge of chemistry and physics and no higher education on the following matters, noteworthy is the fact that for the sake of simplicity I've left out a lot of secondary specifics that contribute to the below-described process withal.


Plasma is driven via PWM (something BFI mimics) because you must first charge a phosphor by UV light through ionization of noble gases by applying voltage to noble gases i.e. turning gases into plasma and thus creating electron-holes via electron Number 1 which (UV light) kicks phosphors atoms to a higher energy level where they stay as long as gases stay ionized(charged). The second step is to apply current (electrons to fill the holes) using electron Number 2 which discharges ionized gases which in turn lets phosphors get back to their normal energy level and release energy in the form of photons (light).


With oleds you can simply make them release light (photons) by applying current! No hoop-jumping here. All genius is simple, ain't it...

....

Last edited by stas3098; Today at 03:46 PM.
stas3098 is online now  
post #10657 of 10658 Unread Today, 04:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tubetwister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sacramento delta N. Cal. US Don't trust any air I can't see ☺
Posts: 2,664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 420 Post(s)
Liked: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81
Even if people can tell the difference in the showroom, they'll notice the price difference a lot more.

Again, there is no mass market for quality.

What we've seen, especially in the last 10 years, is that consumers will choose price and convenience over quality every time.

So people have widely settled for lossy audio, lower bit rate video streaming and phone camera photos.


The only reason LG must be pursuing OLED is that they fear the race to the bottom with the Chinese if they stay with LCD.
That's probably also why we are seeing 4K sets with virtually no content yet from most of the big boys (cart before the horse if you will ) mfr strategy : ( move up from 1080p product put 4K in premium space) for better margins and product differentiation and lets hope it generates more unit sales whether there are tangible benefits or not .

In LG case do that (like everybody else ) LG can't loose face or sales logically they have no choice but to go along for the 4K ride . Add in WOLED put in premium space strategy move 55" maybe 65" downstream some and they have a new premium market only they are serving (for now )
predictable logical (maybe not long term ?) survival strategy's so far (for the time being ) .............. until domestic PRC brands start making OLED and 4K in volume for export that is .Everybody else is in same boat except without OLED .

LG spokesperson has publicly stated they can't compete with PRC in 1080P 2K forgot where I read that one of the usual suspect trade web sites .

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. "can we make it louder "?
"The wireless music box has no commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
- David Sarnoff's associates at RCA the 1920's -

Last edited by tubetwister; Today at 04:38 PM.
tubetwister is online now  
post #10658 of 10658 Unread Today, 04:38 PM
Advanced Member
 
SiGGy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lenexa, Kansas
Posts: 709
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by stas3098 View Post
I don't have any substantial complaints about the motion on OLEDs and I wouldn't change anything associated with it. I can just be a bit nit-picky at times that's all.


I never really observed phosphor trailing or flickering on ST60, however there's a dithering problem at hand. From what I can see Samsung's OLED TV doesn't suffer from these issues, howbeit it had some very slight blurring in Flight Club and I don't recall there being any blurring on plasma.


Driving OLED the way plasma is driven i.e via PWM or using something that imitates it (black frame insertion ) is madness in its purest unadulterated form.

Disclaimer

The following is hard to fathom for one that has high-school-only knowledge of chemistry and physics and no higher education on the following matters, noteworthy is the fact that for the sake of simplicity I've left out a lot of secondary specifics that contribute to the below-described process withal.


Plasma is driven via PWM (something BFI mimics) because you must first charge a phosphor by UV light through ionization of noble gases by applying voltage to noble gases i.e. turning gases into plasma and thus creating electron-holes via electron Number 1 which (UV light) kicks phosphors atoms to a higher energy level where they stay as long as gases stay ionized(charged). The second step is to apply current (electrons to fill the holes) using electron Number 2 which discharges ionized gases which in turn lets phosphors get back to their normal energy level and release energy in the form of photons (light).


With oleds you can simply make them release light (photons) by applying current! No hoop-jumping here. All genius is simple, ain't it...
You and I are in the same boat.

Really it's the flashing of the image on the screen that makes the motion appear better visually. The OLED(s) will definetly take a beating doing either method you mentioned but it would impove things visually from a motion standpoint.

-SiGGy
SiGGy is online now  
Reply Flat Panels General and OLED Technology

Tags
Led Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv , Plasma Hdtv , Oled Tv , Lg , Samsung

User Tag List



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off