OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 12:30 PM
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oled can show far better blacks i.e 0.0 cd/m2 and can show far brighter whites which plasmas can only dream about.

Plasma has already achieved 0.0 cd/m2 blacks.

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OLED don't suffer from phoshor trailing,they also look way sharper and 3d like compared to the blury traditional picture of the plasma.

So you've seen a 50"+ 1080p OLED in person? Or are you basing this on the miniscule 11" XEL-1 that's in many stores?
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post #1172 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

Plasma has already achieved 0.0 cd/m2 blacks.

I'm pretty sure that these claimed 0 cd/m² plasmas have mis/nonfire problems.

PDP will always look hazy because of dithering.
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post #1173 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 01:16 PM
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I'm pretty sure that these claimed 0 cd/m² plasmas have mis/nonfire problems.

And patent applications were already filed containing workarounds for this problem.

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PDP will always look hazy because of dithering.

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post #1174 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

And patent applications were already filed containing workarounds for this problem.

So it basically confirms it. Just like dithering is a "workaround".
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post #1175 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by sharpbandaid View Post

Plasma Panel Shipment Growth Decelerates, Says iSuppli

Mar 25, 2009


OLED isn't going to kill LCD anytime soon. Maybe within 15-20 years OLED will exceed LCD shipments.

You better get a grip. Who do you think makes all those itty bitty video screens? LCD, that's who..and just who do you think will be losing all that marketshare when OLED replaces them?...LCD, that's who. Dude, Wake up and smell the frack'in coffee! LCD is doomed, and their time is near at end.
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post #1176 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 01:30 PM
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So it basically confirms it. Just like dithering is a "workaround".

Yes, it's exactly the same.

Perhaps you could actually read the patent applications and educate yourself instead of spouting unbridled nonsense.
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post #1177 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post

You better get a grip. Who do you think makes all those itty bitty video screens? LCD, that's who..and just who do you think will be losing all that marketshare when OLED replaces them?...LCD, that's who. Dude, Wake up and smell the frack'in coffee! LCD is doomed, and their time is near at end.

LCD market is huge. There's no OLED capacity to kill LCD.
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post #1178 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

Plasma has already achieved 0.0 cd/m2 blacks.



So you've seen a 50"+ 1080p OLED in person? Or are you basing this on the miniscule 11" XEL-1 that's in many stores?

well plasma including the KURO cannot show 0.0cdm/2.

well i have seen a 27" OLED ,apart from the 11",they certainly look better then a similar sized lcd i.e with blacker blacks,better viewing angles,but they sure looked more sharp and 3d like ,unlike plasma.
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post #1179 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by aim120 View Post

well plasma including the KURO cannot show 0.0cdm/2.

well i have seen a 27" OLED ,apart from the 11",they certainly look better then a similar sized lcd i.e with blacker blacks,better viewing angles,but they sure looked more sharp and 3d like ,unlike plasma.

Hey that's great, and look forward to seeing them replace LCD's in the marketplace. About time we had a decent small screen TV to buy.
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post #1180 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 02:09 PM
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well plasma including the KURO cannot show 0.0cdm/2.

Pioneer achieved it. It just didn't make it to market before they exited the business.
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post #1181 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 02:26 PM
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they sure looked more sharp

So you've seen it next to a 27" plasma?

Sharpness comparisons are worthless unless you're comparing equal size and resolution.
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post #1182 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

So you've seen it next to a 27" plasma?

Sharpness comparisons are worthless unless you're comparing equal size and resolution.

I've seen similar sized Plasma and LCD next to each other and as anyone will say LCD certainly look sharper than Plasma, that is just how reality plays out. Now, I have not seen an actual OLED, but I image the person whose seen the 27" OLED knows what a LCD of similar size looks like and I think he could vouch for it looking, if not better, then at least equally sharp as an LCD. That train of deduction leads us to the conclusion of OLED having the characteristic of a sharper looking image than Plasma.

But who cares in the end, I don't think anyone is in here who isn't anticipating OLED so they can quit current technologies such as LCD and Plasma, at least I know I am.
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post #1183 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 03:19 PM
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I've seen similar sized Plasma and LCD next to each other and as anyone will say LCD certainly look sharper than Plasma, that is just how reality plays out.

This is not my experience when both are properly adjusted to defeat edge enhancement (sharpness). It's also model dependant.
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post #1184 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

This is not my experience when both are properly adjusted to defeat edge enhancement (sharpness). It's also model dependant.

Who cares. When you are adding noise=dithering to the image there's no possibility for image to be as clear, sharp or 3d-like as without the added noise.
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post #1185 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 03:39 PM
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I don't see any dithering effects from beyond 7' on my screen. It looks as clear as when I'm using my LCD.
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post #1186 of 10651 Old 08-15-2009, 09:15 PM
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when OLED finally gets to market with the PQ, black levels etc. that everybody is waiting for the price will kill it at first.
This has happened with every new technology that has ever hit the market. Unfortunately the PRICE MAKES IT PROHIBITVE AT FIRST.


BOTTOM LINE: Between the perfection of the technology & the anticipated opening high price, OLED is a few years away
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post #1187 of 10651 Old 08-16-2009, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

So you've seen it next to a 27" plasma?

Sharpness comparisons are worthless unless you're comparing equal size and resolution.

well rhe OLED looks sharper then a similar sized lcd,we know that lcds looks sharper then a similar sized plasma,hence a similar sized 50" OLED will look even sharper then a lcds which in turn looks way sharper then a plasma.
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post #1188 of 10651 Old 08-16-2009, 11:24 AM
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I was searching google when I stumbled upon this, look at the date, its from 6 years ago, really puts things in perspective relative to the sluggish nature of OLED technology advancement.
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post #1189 of 10651 Old 08-16-2009, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post

You better get a grip. Who do you think makes all those itty bitty video screens? LCD, that's who..and just who do you think will be losing all that marketshare when OLED replaces them?...LCD, that's who. Dude, Wake up and smell the frack'in coffee! LCD is doomed, and their time is near at end.

I'm glad. LCD is bad idea that needs to go away. It reminds me of the story of the empreror who pretended to have beautiful clothes, when he didn't. It always needs a new "band-aid" workaround to problems, while other technologies like plasma have no problem with, without a promise of to fix the problem without giving up some other desirable trait. Right now, LCD technology can either give you rapid response OR wide viewing angle, for example. Take your pick, just remember you can't have it all. Afterall, it's LCD.
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post #1190 of 10651 Old 08-16-2009, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by -=Kamikaze=- View Post

I was searching google when I stumbled upon this, look at the date, its from 6 years ago, really puts things in perspective relative to the sluggish nature of OLED technology advancement.

OLED is a victim of the bad economy the last few years. Sony was losing money on the Playstation 3 since at least 2006, not including the expensive development costs involved for it. Now maybe Sony can concentrate on the OLED development more, and re-establish their priorities.
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post #1191 of 10651 Old 08-16-2009, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Tazishere View Post

I'm glad. LCD is bad idea that needs to go away. It reminds me of the story of the empreror who pretended to have beautiful clothes, when he didn't. It always needs a new "band-aid" workaround to problems, while other technologies like plasma have no problem with, without a promise of to fix the problem without giving up some other desirable trait. Right now, LCD technology can either give you rapid response OR wide viewing angle, for example. Take your pick, just remember you can't have it all. Afterall, it's LCD.

too bad plasmas don't have any problems and lcds outsell plasmas by a huge margin.
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post #1192 of 10651 Old 08-16-2009, 05:47 PM
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OLED is the perfect display technology: flexible, lightweight, perfect PQ, energy efficient, perfect viewing angles, thin, everything... Plasma cannot compare. The only advantage of a plasma is perfect PQ; otherwise, they are large and heavy space heaters that are prone to problems and failure over time.

I wouldn't be surprised if OLEDs are used for decades to come. I predict that OLED display glasses will be made since they can have dense pixel pitch. It'd be great to one day watch a perfect 100" TV through some glasses.

At this point, I guess the only setback is the short lifespan of the emitters.
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post #1193 of 10651 Old 08-16-2009, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Isochroma View Post

OLED has true shades of colors - unlike plasma which switches pixels on and off to get greyscales. Switching pixels to get greyscales causes motion artifacts, and can even be seen on still images in dark areas due to low duty cycle. These effects are often called dither or 'noise', though they are not noise in the normal sense of the word, but switching artifacts also known as temporal aliasing.

OLED emitters can have a much wider color gamut (better purity) than plasma phosphors.

OLED doesn't flicker like plasma because it doesn't require PWM switching to obtain greyscales. Distinct and present in addition to 'noise' or temporal aliasing as mentioned above, the entire display strobes at one or more frequencies (usually 60Hz. in North America). This artifact is more visible in bright images from all distances and can causes headache and eyestrain.

OLED uses much less power than plasma because unlike plasma it does not require high voltage to ionize gas. Converting wall current to high voltage uses expensive, heavy and failure-prone circuits that waste energy during the conversion process. Plasma also uses many different high voltages, further complicating the conversion circuitry.

OLED is safer than plasma because the unit contains less high-voltage circuitry. In case of accident like water infiltration, etc. it is less likely to cause electrocution. A plasma steps up the 110-120V wall current to 600V to activate its pixels, while OLED converts its input voltage down to 12V or lower. 12V or lower cannot cause electrocution and is safe. The only dangerous circuitry in a wall-powered OLED is the small portion before and inside the step-down converter - all the rest runs at or below 12V. For OLEDs used in laptops, cellphones, and other battery-powered devices there is no dangerous voltage at all. Even compared to LCD - the majority of today's LCD small-device displays use cold-cathode high-voltage miniature fluorescent tubes for backlights and therefore also present a shock or electrocution hazard.

OLED drive circuitry lasts longer than plasma drive circuitry because its power usage and voltage are much lower, and its circuits are less complex with far fewer high-power handling components which are usually the first to fail. This means less heat generated in its circuits, lower circuit cost and fewer components to fail, thus a longer life and cheaper price than plasma drive circuitry.

OLED is lighter than plasma and can be printed on sheets 1/3mm thick. Not only sheets of glass, but sheets of plastic. Plasma being a vacuum technology requires heavy, hard glass to keep atmospheric pressure from collapsing its vacuum cells. This means lower shipping costs and therefore lower prices for OLED. As fossil fuel runs out in the coming years, shipping costs will make up more and more of the price of finished goods, therefore weight will matter more and more as part of the total cost of a display.

OLED pixels can be made in any size, from the superfine dots of a laptop display to the large pixels of a 50" TV, and thus unlike plasma can be made in all sizes from cellphone to supergiant TV. The minimum size of plasma pixels limits its market to TVs.

OLED pixels retain their efficiency no matter the size, while plasma pixels get less efficient as their size is reduced, often dramatically so, due to wall losses which de-ionize the gas and which depends on its pixels' surface area / volume ratio. A cellphone OLED display can be just as bright and efficient as a 50" OLED-TV.

Though each of these differences between OLED and plasma may seem small, taken together they add up to a significant overall difference between displays, as the many people who have seen live OLED displays can attest.

Thank you. Great post. Of course, how dare you interrupt some folk's emotionally held beliefs with FACTS!

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post #1194 of 10651 Old 08-16-2009, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by greenjp View Post

Plasma fanboys will continue to enjoy their big plasma sets for many years before OLED is a viable tech....

Viable? How about the millions of OLED screens on cell phones, PDAs, etc?



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Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

...As much as members hate to hear Auditor's stuff he's right on.....

You mean about how he insists SED is coming? OLED is probably IT, folks. It works today, it only needs scaling up. More of a technology issue than a scientific one. Plasma has been declining. OLED is easier to see in daylight than plasma. Eventually, based on cost/performance, LCD will decline and maybe disappear.

On to the holosuite!

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post #1195 of 10651 Old 08-17-2009, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by navychop View Post

You mean about how he insists SED is coming? OLED is probably IT, folks. It works today, it only needs scaling up. More of a technology issue than a scientific one. Plasma has been declining. OLED is easier to see in daylight than plasma. Eventually, based on cost/performance, LCD will decline and maybe disappear.

On to the holosuite!

I'm confused, is there someone out there who thinks LCD -- or any technology -- will last forever?
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post #1196 of 10651 Old 08-17-2009, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Liquid-OLED Offers More Light-Emitting Possibilities
14 August 2009



The new liquid-OLED has a liquid semiconducting
layer made of EHCz doped with rubrene.
Liquid-OLEDs could offer improved device reliability
and greater flexibility


As organic light-emitting diodes (OLEDs) are poised to go mainstream in the near future, scientists continue to explore new twists on the technology. Recently, researchers have fabricated a "liquid-OLED" - an OLED that uses a liquid organic semiconducting layer to transport charge.

The scientists, Denghui Xu and Chihaya Adachi from the Center for Future Chemistry at Kyushu University in Fukuoka, Japan, have reported the liquid-OLED in a recent issue of Applied Physics Letters. As they explain, the novel design is based on a liquid-emitting layer, and could have advantages for flexible displays and other organic electronics applications.

Usually, OLED displays use solid-state organic films that give off light when an electric current is applied. One significant benefit of OLED displays compared to traditional liquid crystal displays (LCDs) is that OLEDs do not require a backlight. For this reason, OLEDs can be made very thin and flexible, as well as use less power, enabling them to run longer on a single battery charge.

The new liquid-OLED could achieve these same benefits, but by using a liquid organic semiconductor instead of the solid-state films. Other than a few previous studies that have investigated using polymer solutions as the semiconducting layer, this is the first time that researchers have attempted to fabricate a practical liquid semiconductor for OLEDs.

As Xu and Adachi explain, their device uses ethylhexyl carbazole (EHCz) as the liquid semiconducting layer due to its high hole mobility, which is associated with good electrical conductivity. The scientists doped the EHCz with solid rubrene, which has a high photoluminescence efficiency. They then prepared a substrate with this liquid mixture placed in between an anode and cathode, which in turn were sandwiched by glass layers. When testing the device, the researchers observed electroluminescence from rubrene with the naked eye.

“Since EHCz provides hole transport and rubrene does electron transport and emitting functions, the combination leads to electroluminescence,” Adachi told PhysOrg.com.

The researchers hope that, by taking advantage of the new device’s unique liquid properties, they can make further improvements in OLED technology. For instance, liquid semiconductors could easily fill the space between two electrodes in curved structures without cracking or shortage problems. The researchers also suggest that the liquid semiconductors could be circulated or refilled into the active emitting layer. This constant, fresh supply of semiconductors could improve device reliability and reduce degradation.

“This is quite a new concept, realizing truly flexible and degradation-free OLEDs,” Adachi said. “Although the electroluminescence efficiency is still low level, we can surely improve it by optimizing the device parameters and organic semiconductors.”

More information: Denghui Xu and Chihaya Adachi. “Organic light-emitting diode with liquid emitting layer” Applied Physics Letters 95, 053304 (2009).
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post #1197 of 10651 Old 08-17-2009, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sharpbandaid View Post

LCD market is huge. There's no OLED capacity to kill LCD.

Not for long...best get ready for the onslaught. There will be NO market for LCD once OLED gets ramped up. Everything that uses an LCD today, will be OLED tomorrow. Good riddance, and looking forward to those OLED displays!
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post #1198 of 10651 Old 08-17-2009, 10:20 PM
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The problem that OLED is going to have at first is pricing. And Samsung noted in one of their press releases that consumers may not buy in to OLED if they can't see a big difference between current flat panels and OLED on those bright showroom floors. Many of us know that LCDs flaws don't show up until you get them in typical home environments.

Both LCD and plasma have flaws. I'd be glad to see OLED make it as well (at an affordable price though).
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post #1199 of 10651 Old 08-18-2009, 12:13 AM
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Uh oh... looks like this thread needs to be split out... as many of the posts lately are off topic with this thread:
OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread

Speaking to the demise of LCD and Plasma isn't an OLED TV Advancement... but now that I word it like that...
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post #1200 of 10651 Old 08-18-2009, 07:15 AM
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Sony, Stung by Losses, Delays Thin TV

Sony will delay the launch of its next organic light emitting diode, or OLED, television because mass producing the new displays would exacerbate losses at its TV division, according to people familiar with the matter.

The company had been targeting a 2009 release for a larger successor to a model with an 11-inch screen released in late 2007, which is the first and only OLED TV to reach stores so far. That model's screen is three millimeters thick. But Sony has decided to push back the new model until at least next year, these people said.

The challenge thus far has been driving down manufacturing costs, because materials are hard to procure and production systems remain a work in progress.

Research firm DisplaySearch estimates Sony's production yield for its 11-inch OLED panel is below 60%, meaning at least four of every 10 panels its factories produce aren't up to par and can't be sold. Larger panels would likely introduce more difficulties.
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