OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 67 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 128Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1981 of 10697 Old 02-23-2011, 01:17 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
htwaits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 24,772
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Ax Xrox already mentioned, Panasonic could produce ZERO black PDPs if they had the will (thanks to Pioneer patents), thus making OLED less attractive. They could surely price a 50" less than either of those Sony monitors. ;-)

If OLED is able to be ramped up to the consumer market, it should have a significant price advantage over plasma and LCD of equal size. The current Sony OLED displays are meaningless in that discussion. MSTS
htwaits is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1982 of 10697 Old 02-23-2011, 01:23 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1010
But of course, we are both dealing with conditional statements and hypotheses. I realize those are on the high end given they are coined "professional" monitors. What's the lowest priced, largest OLED we've seen offered in the marketplace yet? 32"?
vinnie97 is offline  
post #1983 of 10697 Old 02-23-2011, 02:44 PM
Senior Member
 
guidryp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Ax Xrox already mentioned, Panasonic could produce ZERO black PDPs if they had the will (thanks to Pioneer patents), thus making OLED less attractive.

It seems unlikely that those patents are trouble free when making the leap from the theoretical to the practical.

If it could be reasonably done, they would do it for the significant advantage it would give them against all current technologies. Since it hasn't been done there are clearly significant roadblocks against a real world implementation.
guidryp is offline  
post #1984 of 10697 Old 02-23-2011, 03:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
specuvestor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

But of course, we are both dealing with conditional statements and hypotheses. I realize those are on the high end given they are coined "professional" monitors. What's the lowest priced, largest OLED we've seen offered in the marketplace yet? 32"?

LG supposed to be producing $9k 31" this year, but I'll rather wait to see a $5k 32" from Sammy next year.
specuvestor is offline  
post #1985 of 10697 Old 02-23-2011, 05:28 PM
Senior Member
 
pdoherty972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Ax Xrox already mentioned, Panasonic could produce ZERO black PDPs if they had the will (thanks to Pioneer patents), thus making OLED less attractive. They could surely price a 50" less than either of those Sony monitors. ;-)

Those Sony OLED monitors are only 10% more than the LCDs they're replacing.

And OLEDs will, in the end (by 2015 or so), be cheaper to produce than LCD.
pdoherty972 is offline  
post #1986 of 10697 Old 02-23-2011, 05:46 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1010
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

LG supposed to be producing $9k 31" this year, but I'll rather wait to see a $5k 32" from Sammy next year.

Certainly.

Given Pioneer had a prototype back @ CES 2008 (likely developed in 2007), Panasonic could have spent the last 3 years incorporating the tech if they cared enough or thought the ROI would be worthwhile. 2015 is still another 4 years away.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #1987 of 10697 Old 02-23-2011, 06:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
xrox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidryp View Post

It seems unlikely that those patents are trouble free when making the leap from the theoretical to the practical.

If it could be reasonably done, they would do it for the significant advantage it would give them against all current technologies. Since it hasn't been done there are clearly significant roadblocks against a real world implementation.

Starting about 6-7 years ago Pioneer considered black level its top priority and aggressively researched exoemission for many years. The result was CEL followed by KURO and then the ECC.

Panasonic considers efficiency and 3D its top priority and is focusing research efforts on these technologies. They do not seem interested in ECC technology and they do not seem to feel black level is as important as Pioneer once did. Also, there is also some indication (not confirmed) that KURO and ECC technology are not very compatible with NeoPDP technology.

I personally feel this is why ECC is not actively being developed anymore AFAIK.

Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
xrox is offline  
post #1988 of 10697 Old 02-23-2011, 07:31 PM
Senior Member
 
guidryp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

I personally feel this is why ECC is not actively being developed anymore AFAIK.

Kind of sad that Pioneer gave up just after achieving prototype stage. Pure black should be a massive market differentiator. Then Canon had SED with essentially pure black, then gave up.

The curse of pure black?
guidryp is offline  
post #1989 of 10697 Old 02-23-2011, 07:51 PM
 
vinnie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nunya
Posts: 11,657
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 1010
hehe, must be...like being sucked into a fiscally inescapable black hole. Panasonic's push into 3D and finite decreases in power consumption have been the bane of the videophile since 2008.
vinnie97 is offline  
post #1990 of 10697 Old 02-24-2011, 12:50 AM
Advanced Member
 
vtms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 997
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by guidryp View Post
Kind of sad that Pioneer gave up just after achieving prototype stage. Pure black should be a massive market differentiator. Then Canon had SED with essentially pure black, then gave up.

The curse of pure black?
Once they stared into the abyss of pure black, it messed them up so much that they became clueless about how to bring it to market at affordable prices.
vtms is offline  
post #1991 of 10697 Old 02-24-2011, 10:04 AM
Senior Member
 
walt73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

Panasonic considers efficiency and 3D its top priority and is focusing research efforts on these technologies. They do not seem interested in ECC technology and they do not seem to feel black level is as important as Pioneer once did. Also, there is also some indication (not confirmed) that KURO and ECC technology are not very compatible with NeoPDP technology.

I personally feel this is why ECC is not actively being developed anymore AFAIK.


Very depressing post. I hope it's not true.

What I want to know is, WTH are Panasonic PDP engineers doing with their time if not working on improving black level? Are those dozens of highly paid ex-Pioneer experts doing nothing all day but trying to squeeze out a little extra brightness per watt?

"... we wonÂt be stopping plasma production any time soon. We see it going on for another ten years." -- Kevin Lee, VP, Smart TV Partnerships (Samsung), 1/7/11
walt73 is offline  
post #1992 of 10697 Old 02-24-2011, 11:56 AM
Senior Member
 
pdoherty972's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughh View Post

Samsung develops world's first full-color display using quantum dots
2011-02-23 10:27

Samsung Electronics Co. said Wednesday that it has succeeded in developing the world's first full-color display using quantum dots, paving the way for producing large displays that are brighter, cheaper and more advanced.

The South Korean tech giant said that its researchers made a prototype of a four-inch, full-color display through a new way of display patterning, which will enable producing a large scale display using quantum dots.

** The result was published in science journal Nature Photonics this week. 

** Displays using quantum dots, a form of semiconductor, are seen as the next generation of display technology that will improve brightness, visibility and power efficiency of organic light-emitting display (OLED) materials found in electronic gadgets.

The breakthrough follows Samsung's development of mono-color display using quantum dots in 2009. 

** "The research is meaningful in that it showed the potential for developing large-scale displays using quantum dots," said Kim Jong-min, who led the research team. 

** Samsung is the world's largest maker of computer memory chips and flat-screen display panels.
(Yonhap News)*
http://www.koreaherald.com/business/...20110223000398

I'll look for qdots as a competitor starting in about 5-7 years. Especially considering this is the first successful attempt to even generate a full-color (as opposed to monochrome) display.
pdoherty972 is offline  
post #1993 of 10697 Old 02-25-2011, 11:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mr. wally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: land of the pumas
Posts: 3,807
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 47
sorry if i'm off topic a bit here, but last night i saw 4 commercials
for funai display devices. they certainly were emphasizing how fantastic
the displays were. not televisions but more like smart phone and ipad
like devices.

does anyone know if the screens on these are oled?

i'm guessing they're probably just lcds, but not sure.

neflixis our nemesis
mr. wally is offline  
post #1994 of 10697 Old 03-17-2011, 02:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
slacker711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Both Samsung and LG have plans to build a Gen 8 fab in the next year.

http://displaydaily.com/2011/03/17/a...coming-really/
slacker711 is online now  
post #1995 of 10697 Old 03-17-2011, 10:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
specuvestor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
It all depends if the 5.5G fab ramps smoothly and profitably in 2Q. And we'll probably see a 32" AMOLED from Samsung at $5k next year.

But with the earthquake in japan, not even sure if 2Q will be realistic as Japan provides 2/3 OLED layers needed. People forget that the nuclear plant provides at least 1/3 of Japan's power and they are having power ration now. This will be a structural problem for some time.
specuvestor is offline  
post #1996 of 10697 Old 03-18-2011, 05:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
navychop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 2,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
I'd say OLED just got kicked back a few years, unless they think it's so close they can pull it off and make some big bucks quickly.

Reunite Pangea!
navychop is offline  
post #1997 of 10697 Old 03-18-2011, 08:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
slacker711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

It all depends if the 5.5G fab ramps smoothly and profitably in 2Q. And we'll probably see a 32" AMOLED from Samsung at $5k next year.

But with the earthquake in japan, not even sure if 2Q will be realistic as Japan provides 2/3 OLED layers needed. People forget that the nuclear plant provides at least 1/3 of Japan's power and they are having power ration now. This will be a structural problem for some time.

You are right that the problems in Japan could impact the supply of fluorescent OLED materials from Idemitsu Kosan. I would say though that the amount of materials needed for displays is tiny. These would be very small batch jobs for a chemical plant.

I honestly would be surprised by a long-term disruption, but then again that is just my WAG. I have no idea the status of Idemitsu's plants nor whether they have the ability to produce the materials at multiple plants.

Slacker
slacker711 is online now  
post #1998 of 10697 Old 03-20-2011, 05:40 AM
 
Nobl3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Alright I have come to accept the fact that OLED won't reach large sizes for atleast 15 years. There have been absolutely hardly ANY progress for years. Sony stopping selling OLED in Japan, probably US also, in the future, shows how this tech is not catching on.


I am not paying attention to this tech anymore, I am tired of year to year- 0 progress.
Nobl3 is offline  
post #1999 of 10697 Old 03-20-2011, 10:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gmarceau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,089
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 46
If OLED does come out in larger display sizes and they heavily advertise those displays as having absolute black compared to plasma- then MAYBE Panasonic will catch up with Pioneer.

"If you weren't such an ignorant troll, you'd be adorable" -rogo
gmarceau is online now  
post #2000 of 10697 Old 03-20-2011, 05:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
specuvestor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobl3 View Post

Alright I have come to accept the fact that OLED won't reach large sizes for atleast 15 years. There have been absolutely hardly ANY progress for years. Sony stopping selling OLED in Japan, probably US also, in the future, shows how this tech is not catching on.

I am not paying attention to this tech anymore, I am tired of year to year- 0 progress.

I wouldn't say that. Maybe delayed due to japan earthquake but not indefinite (or 15 years) in the bigger scheme of things. This just out:

SAMSUNG MOBILE DISPLAY RIGHTS ISSUE

* SEC & SAMSUNG SDI to participate W1.7tn & W300bn respectively for SMD w3.4tn rights issue @ W71,881/shr.
- SEC & SDI may participate further w1.4tn in 2H11
- SEC will now have 64%, SDI 36% vs previous 50:50.

"AMOLED TV displays will leap-frog to 55” from 32” while LCD TVs has patiently made its way from the 20” levels throughout to 50”. SMD and LGD are both preparing for 8G fabs to produce large AMOLED panels used for TVs. An 8G glass substrate is the most efficient size for 32” and 55” panel production. Although their 8G fabs will adopt different technologies, the size of TV panels should be the same at 32” and 55” to make the best use of glass substrate input and increase productivity at the initial stage." -Korea Investment & Securities 21 Mar 2011
specuvestor is offline  
post #2001 of 10697 Old 03-21-2011, 09:52 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,112
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 465
While I've been a pretty big skeptic of large-size OLED TVs and nothing that has come to market or been announced a product changes that, I am little more sanguine than "it's still 15 years away". That said, it has been "5 years away" for about a decade.

I've been especially skeptical of the endless claims from proponents that it will be "cheaper to produce than LCD". That claim was very questionable in 2005 and seems pretty ridiculous in 2011. LCD pricing has seen something like a 30% annual cost-reduction curve on the production -- and retail -- side. While LCD production costs are bottoming out (unfortunately), the notion that OLED is going to somehow be cheaper than something that is both mature (the first TFTs date to the 1980s, the first full-color ones to the early/mid 1990s) and manufactured in the billion+ unit-per-year range is quite honestly ridiculous.

There is no precedent I can think of where some replacement technology comes along and is by virtue of its immature production processes and smaller volumes cheaper to make. I'm sure there are examples of technologies that get a lot cheaper over time -- for example rotating magnetic storage, multiple kinds of memory -- but it'd be interesting to identify those that don't benefit from Moore's Law-type effects or the benefits of automation coming to non-automated processes. My guess is the examples list would be short.

By definition, OLED TVs of similar size are of similar size, so glass, backplanes, power, logistics are all going to approximate the cost of LCDs. What it comes down to is that somehow, producing pixels -- the physical manifestation of them -- would need to be cheaper than doing so for LCD. And it appears that despite the amazing complexity of LCD televisions, the cost of producing pixels is approaching zero. (I don't literally mean zero, but if you include the color filters, the backlight, the LCD material, and the transistor backplane, et. al, you are talking something that even on a 60-inch set is vanishingly small, and with the cost of producing LEDs falling rapidly and their power efficiency rising, it's getting that much smaller).

The hope around OLED being cheaper is based on it being, therefore, so much inherently less complex to manufacture that a generation's worth of learning-curve effects, process improvements, etc. can be superseded in some shorter period of time, say the 5 years from 2013-2018. During that time, something approximating 10 billion LCD screens will be produced for TVs, tablets, computers, etc. While the number of OLED screens is rising proportionally faster than LED, the number being produced is not changing by the same raw amount as LCD. (In other words, LCD is still outgrowing OLED in total units added year over year).

There has been much hype around OLED being "printed" like with an inkjet, but the reality is that making OLEDs appears to be at least as complex as making LCDs and is by no means clearly easier. Of the scores of companies that were pursuing low-cost manufacturing methods for OLED in the previous decade, many are no longer remotely involved in trying to bring it to market. In fact, early leading proponents like Sony appear to have virtually no interest in pursuing the technology and Matsushita has also shown little interest.

Basically, the future of this technology for television is in the hands of the world's two-largest LCD makers who also happen to be two of the largest plasma makers. It strains the imagination to believe OLED will be anything more than a premium-priced TV product for the foreseeable future. It's also hard to imagine a $5000 32-inch TV to attract more than single-digit 1000 sales globally.

While I am well aware of the growth of OLED in the smartphone market, I am not convinced most people are seeing it as dramatically outperforming LCD. And the world's driving force for thinness, power consumption, etc. in mobile (Apple) has yet to tip its market driving power toward OLED, while doing insanely cool things with LCD. (Pick up an iPad2, marvel at its thinness, boggle as the fact that most of the height is the enclosure and the battery, not the screen).

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is offline  
post #2002 of 10697 Old 03-21-2011, 10:29 AM
Senior Member
 
guidryp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

While I am well aware of the growth of OLED in the smartphone market, I am not convinced most people are seeing it as dramatically outperforming LCD. And the world's driving force for thinness, power consumption, etc. in mobile (Apple) has yet to tip its market driving power toward OLED, while doing insanely cool things with LCD. (Pick up an iPad2, marvel at its thinness, boggle as the fact that most of the height is the enclosure and the battery, not the screen).

Agreed on just about everything in your post.

I will also add that when Samsung (leading supplier of mobile OLEDs) built their 7" tablet they went LCD and indicated that LCD was better for power consumption. Also I am always reading about supply issues for mobile OLED screens, which clearly points to manufacturing issues and that is on tiny screens.

I think we are finally reaching the point where OLEDs might really be 5 years in our TV future(50"+ under $10000), but I expect it will be 10-15 years till they undercut LCD. LCD is mature and most of the patents are expiring, OLED is new, and patents on the OLED chemistry will be a minefield.
guidryp is offline  
post #2003 of 10697 Old 03-21-2011, 01:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
specuvestor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
The fact that they jumped generations straight to 8G should indicate somewhat about their strategy. They do not think OLED is competitive in the highly commoditised 11-30" PC space. However the corollary is also true that it will be competitive in the TV space for the perceived value in PQ and aesthetic improvements, especially in the premium space as rogo indicated, even if it may very well never be cheaper than LCD TV.

But just as it is possible to ship 10m >60" TV ie 5% market eventually, IMHO it is also likely that 10m OLED TV is not far fetch. Which is also why I don't think there is no room for plasma to exist in the next 10 years. The assumption of winner takes all is probably incorrect in the medium term.

PS on Apple using LCD, it is not a question of whether it thinks LCD with retina resolution is superior. It is a question of whether it has a choice in the first place.
specuvestor is offline  
post #2004 of 10697 Old 03-21-2011, 07:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hughh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Arlington TX
Posts: 2,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

Korea gets momentum in AM-OLED

By Kim Yoo-chul

Korean companies may have secured momentum in their bid for leadership in the active-matrix organic light-emitting diode (AM OLED) sector of the premium flat-panel industry as a crucial patent in the industry has been invalidated. 

Universal Display Corporation (UDC) of the United States recently lost a lawsuit in Japan regarding a key material used for such panels. 

Princeton University and the University of Southern California initially filed a patent on phosphorescent materials that was accepted in the United States, while UDC earned the right to charge royalties on licensees. 

The patent at issue has been a stumbling block for Korean AM OLED manufacturers such as Samsung Mobile Display and LG Display in their attempts to preempt the global market. 

Phosphorescent materials help enhance the brightness of such panels as well as offering savings in energy consumption, although they are somewhat pricey compared to conventional fluorescent materials. 

It is not known whether UDC will try to overturn the ruling as UDC representatives in Korea were not available for comment. If they accept it, Korea will not have to pay royalties for using the unpatented materials. 

The ruling in the Japanese court is significant because the trade and use of the phosphorescent materials take place mostly in Japan, experts pointed out. 

``The situation is becoming favorable for Korea's AM OLED makers and related materials suppliers thanks to the court decision,'' a top-ranking industry executive said Sunday while asking not to be named. 

When contacted, both Samsung Mobile Display and LG Display refused to comment on the issues. 

Samsung Mobile Display is currently the leader in the global OLED market, followed by LG Display. The former, which was set up through collaboration of Samsung Electronics and Samsung SDI, is struggling to meet demand for AM OLED panels for use in advanced products such as handsets and tablet PCs.

AM OLED is considered the next-generation flat screen _ touted as far better than today's norm of liquid crystal displays.

The use of the panels, however, is currently limited to smaller-sized devices such as smartphones and tablets due to the higher cost and technology-related matters.

Samsung Electronics, which is the runner-up to Nokia in the handset industry, is a strong backer of AM OLED panels as it uses the screens in its strategic Galaxy S smartphones, and plans to introduce an AM OLED Galaxy Tab, very soon.
hughh is offline  
post #2005 of 10697 Old 03-22-2011, 04:56 AM
Advanced Member
 
slacker711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 122
It doesnt sound like the issues in Japan have had much of an impact on OLED material supplies.

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20110322PD205.html
slacker711 is online now  
post #2006 of 10697 Old 03-22-2011, 05:44 AM
Advanced Member
 
slacker711's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 643
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:


I've been especially skeptical of the endless claims from proponents that it will be "cheaper to produce than LCD".

JMO, but I dont think that the relevant question is whether OLED's will be cheaper than LCD's, but rather whether they can at least approach LCD prices. The Gen 4.5 OLED fab has allowed Samsung to do precisely that with mobile displays and the result is supply shortages.

My understanding is that Samsung is using basically the same manufacturing processes for their Gen 5.5 fab as their Gen 4.5 fab. If they can then duplicate the yields, it would seem likely that we should see prices drop to within range of LCD's for even larger sizes. If they can manage to do that, the Gen 8 fab and TV sized displays would be next. It will likely take longer to bring the yields up on the Gen 8 fab since the manufacturing process is likely to be different but the principle is the same.

Quote:


During that time, something approximating 10 billion LCD screens will be produced for TVs, tablets, computers, etc. While the number of OLED screens is rising proportionally faster than LED, the number being produced is not changing by the same raw amount as LCD. (In other words, LCD is still outgrowing OLED in total units added year over year).

You are putting the cart before the horse. Of course LCD's will outsell OLED's during that time period. The first thing we need to see is shifts in capex spending. That has happened at Samsung as they will spend the same on OLED's as they are spending on LCD's this year. LG will likely follow next year with the rest of the industry trailing. Shifts in revenue will happen next as OLED's grab the premium portion of the market. It will take a very long time (if ever) for OLED's to actually grab the unit lead. That is where OLED's would need to actually live up to the hype that you cite and deliver displays that are actually cheaper than LCD's. You are right that inkjet printing of OLED's is a long long way from happening.

Slacker
slacker711 is online now  
post #2007 of 10697 Old 03-22-2011, 04:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
specuvestor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
There may still be significant operational risk in ramping 8G as the technology used is incrementally different from 4.5/5.5G, according to KIS. This shouldn't be surprising to anyone following this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guidryp View Post

I will also add that when Samsung (leading supplier of mobile OLEDs) built their 7" tablet they went LCD and indicated that LCD was better for power consumption. Also I am always reading about supply issues for mobile OLED screens, which clearly points to manufacturing issues and that is on tiny screens.

Not true. They had wanted to launch 7" AMOLED tablet, which is another consideration why the size was 7" instead of 9.7" like the iPad. Hence the coming galaxy tablet 2 will be 10" LCD.

The real reason was samsung galaxy s handset was selling much better than anyone expected, and capacity was used up. In fact it single handedly raised Samsung's handset operating margins back to 10%.

If 5.5G ramps on schedule we will see AMOLED samsung tablet by this Christmas.
specuvestor is offline  
post #2008 of 10697 Old 03-22-2011, 05:32 PM
Senior Member
 
guidryp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post


Not true. They had wanted to launch 7" AMOLED tablet, which is another consideration why the size was 7" instead of 9.7" like the iPad. Hence the coming galaxy tablet 2 will be 10" LCD.

What is not true? Do I need to provide the quote from Samsung where they state the power consumption is lower for LCD??

Edit:
Here is a Samsung exec stating they went with LCD for price and power consumption, both of which were better with LCD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRVrvXmhIUU
guidryp is offline  
post #2009 of 10697 Old 03-22-2011, 06:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
specuvestor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I think I've sat with enough samsung exec to read critically what they do rather than what they say They said 7" was better than 10" just 6 months before announcing tablet 2 ie they were developing the 10" while saying straight to my face 7" is better.

Nonetheless price and power consumption are probably valid "excuse" at this point of time. However if that's REALLY their strategy and what they believe then they shouldn't bother with an AMOLED tablet.
specuvestor is offline  
post #2010 of 10697 Old 03-22-2011, 07:41 PM
Senior Member
 
guidryp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

I think I've sat with enough samsung exec to read critically what they do rather than what they say They said 7" was better than 10" just 6 months before announcing tablet 2 ie they were developing the 10" while saying straight to my face 7" is better.

Well it is nice that you are now calling Samsung execs liars instead of me.
guidryp is offline  
Reply Flat Panels General and OLED Technology

Tags
Led Hdtv , Lcd Hdtv , Plasma Hdtv , Oled Tv , Lg , Samsung

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off