Buying A PDP From A Forum Sponsor? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 08-18-2006, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I am going to buy a Pio PDP-4270HD and would like to buy from one of the forum sponsors. Pio's list of authorized internet sellers includes Satellite & Sound Plasma, Invision Displays and TVAuthority?

I would appreciate hearing from those who have purchased a TV from any of these companies. This purchase will be the highest amount I've ever done via the net and I want to be sure that I do my homework.

Thanks in advance for any help.

PS...I have read several posts about TVAuthority, but would appreciate hearing about recent experiences.

Mike
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post #2 of 34 Old 08-18-2006, 07:28 PM
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I've read some good comments here about Satellite & Sound. Try a search. They have a perfect rating at ResellerRatings.com, although it's based on only 10 reviews.
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post #3 of 34 Old 08-18-2006, 08:16 PM
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I purchased a Pioneer 5060 from Satellite and Sound in April and it was a very positive experience. The TV was delivered when promised and in perfect condition. I worked with Doug Welchlin and he was very professional. I have since followed up with him on questions about brands of small LCD tvs. He responded quickly and courteously to all my e-mails.
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post #4 of 34 Old 08-19-2006, 05:06 PM
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I purchased Pioneer 5070 from Cleveland Plasma....... Could not be a better experience!
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post #5 of 34 Old 12-05-2006, 09:45 AM
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I wanted to revive this thread to post about the excellent service that I received from Dave at Satellite & Sound. He promptly responded to my emails, recommended an excellent articulating arm for my 5070, kept me apprised of the tracking numbers and delivery dates and, best of all, was able to arrange for me to take advantage of the recent Pioneer price drop. I would highly recommend Satellite & Sound for anyone considering a purchase of a Pioneer plasma.
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post #6 of 34 Old 12-05-2006, 09:12 PM
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Bought my 5070 from Invision Displays and am awaiting delivery! Matt gave me the absolute best deal of any of the authorized Pioneer online retailers. He answered all my questions and didn't try to pressure me into making a decision on the spot (like BeachCamera did). Another thing I have heard is that Invision's delivery company will help you bring the set into the house, unbox, and check for damage. Most other place's standard delivery is a threshold delivery so they will bring it to your front door and run. Do a search for them and you will find many satisfied customers.

Also, it never hurts to mention that you are an AVS Forum member when negotiating a deal!
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post #7 of 34 Old 12-29-2006, 02:29 PM
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I ordered $2,000 worth of equipment from TVAuthority 30 days ago and have not received my merchandise. My credit card was charged immediately. Numerous emails go unanswered. Customer service takes about 45 minutes to answer a call and then have no real information for you. They continually set future delivery dates. They send no communication when these dates are missed. They provide no tracking data. Merchandise is drop shipped from another location. I would advise against doling business with this company; they seem to be in trouble. Look at the numerous comments on the usual resources that rate online retailers. Bizrate etc.
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post #8 of 34 Old 12-30-2006, 08:08 AM
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OP: please post your update in this thread which you also posted in:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=712708

We're interested in hearing what happens and I hope all works out.

this one is closed since folks seem to want to jump in. These types of threads don't get closed because folks post bad experiences, they get closed because of needless comments.

____________________________________________________________ _____

This was posted in pigsnack's original post in the plasma forum. IT WAS CLOSED !

Why I ask ?

Needless comments ? I disagree. Most comments ( this time and most of the time) are 100% right on. Threads like that should be kept open for all to see . It's apparant that people are still missing the boat and for some reason still ordering from TVA.
Why bury something like this ?

This thread is buried here, ( just where TVA would want it to be)It should be kept under the original "plasma" forum.

and why are they allowed to have a banner on this site ?
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post #9 of 34 Old 12-30-2006, 09:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigsnack View Post

TVAuthority is jerking me around

Uh oh, here we go again...
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post #10 of 34 Old 12-30-2006, 09:21 AM
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Just wondering:

When someone recommends an online vendor, and tells you that they had a great experience with said vendor, how do you know that they are legit, and not just actually working for the vendor, or just some one spoofing the thread.

Why would anyone factor into their purchasing agreements the recommendations of some online anonymous sources?. It seems like a very hazy approach to use, when making a major purchase decision.
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post #11 of 34 Old 12-30-2006, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stocky View Post


This was posted in pigsnack's original post in the plasma forum. IT WAS CLOSED !

Why I ask ?

Needless comments ? I disagree. Most comments ( this time and most of the time) are 100% right on. Threads like that should be kept open for all to see . It's apparant that people are still missing the boat and for some reason still ordering from TVA.
Why bury something like this ?

This thread is buried here, ( just where TVA would want it to be)It should be kept under the original "plasma" forum.

and why are they allowed to have a banner on this site ?

The thread is available for all to see. Closing a thread does not make it unavailable to view. You say this thread is buried, but folks seem to have found it. We can disagree on which comments cause threads to get closed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Just wondering:

When someone recommends an online vendor, and tells you that they had a great experience with said vendor, how do you know that they are legit, and not just actually working for the vendor, or just some one spoofing the thread.

Agreed, but that goes both ways. How do we as mods know when someone complains about a vendor that they are not just someone looking to cause problems on the forum? Not saying I believe this to be the case, but how do I know for sure?


All that said, the OP PM'd me and I told him he could start a new thread if he wished, but that if people who have no business posting to the thread jump in, it too would be closed.
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post #12 of 34 Old 12-30-2006, 01:43 PM
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What qualifications do we need to post in the OP's thread ?

TVA has numerous times over the past 6months maybe longer completely dropped the ball on purchases made by AVS members or lurkers.

They initially would come to the thread and defend themselves, that was nice.

Forget about anyone even showing up now. They should be held accountable for their actions or lack there of.

Sure not buying from them is the untimate answer, but until they are removed from the banner,suggesting that AVS approves of said company seems misleading.
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post #13 of 34 Old 12-30-2006, 01:51 PM
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If you want to bump the thread to say you "hope all works out", etc.. that's fine, but when folks start to question the ethics of AVS, questioning whether they will get banned for speaking up, then that's a problem as folks know darn well they aren't going to get banned for that.

Also, if you have a bad experience with TVA, that would be an excellent qualification for posting to the thread.
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post #14 of 34 Old 12-30-2006, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow View Post

If you want to bump the thread to say you "hope all works out", etc.. that's fine, but when folks start to question the ethics of AVS, questioning whether they will get banned for speaking up, then that's a problem as folks know darn well they aren't going to get banned for that.

Also, if you have a bad experience with TVA, that would be an excellent qualification for posting to the thread.

it's not about gettting banned for speaking up, why would they get banned for trying to defend their action ?
The questions is , does the almighty dollar win out over good business ?

You know as well as I have that TVA has done wrong more than just a few times over the last 6 months . Again , it's my opinion ( and just my opinion) that being able to have a (paid or not paid) banner at the top of this forum is misleading to the consumer.
Yes it is the consumers job to check on the company before the buy, but you guys are not helping the matter.
Maybe a 6 month ban until they get their $hit together ?
But to continue to truely mistreat and misrepresent themselves does nobody, AVS, the consumer or TVA any good.
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post #15 of 34 Old 12-30-2006, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

...

Why would anyone factor into their purchasing agreements the recommendations of some online anonymous sources?. It seems like a very hazy approach to use, when making a major purchase decision.

For the same reason that anyone would even take the time to read your post. You've got some 600+ posts and one can look back and form an opinion as to whether you have anything of value to say. Same with a person that weighs in on his third post and says good (or bad) about a particular sponsor.
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post #16 of 34 Old 12-31-2006, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltiDawg View Post

For the same reason that anyone would even take the time to read your post. You've got some 600+ posts and one can look back and form an opinion as to whether you have anythig of value to say. Same with a person that weighs in on his third post and says good (or bad) about a particular sponsor.

Very good point. Hell, I would never recommend that any of my own posts be something some stranger should base a major purchase on. Thank you for reinforcing the gist of my inquiry. You might want to consult a vision specialist about that condition.

I agree with the Mod, that it is good to have some buyers report problems they encounter with vendors. I do not see why that means that AVS should be required to stop such a vendor from advertising on the site. Due care, before making a purchase, is the responsibility of the consumer. I do not see how AVS is supposed to protect us from making problematic purchasing decisions. In fact, I think if AVS were to actually ban a certain vendor from placing ads, AVS would, most likely, be put in legal jeopardy for unfair business practices by depriving a vendor from having a equal access to the market place. AVS is not the legal authority which is charged with overseeing who may stay in business.
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post #17 of 34 Old 12-31-2006, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Very good point. Hell, I would never recommend that any of my own posts be something some stranger should base a major purchase on. Thank you for reinforcing the gist of my inquiry. You might want to consult a vision specialist about that condition.

I agree with the Mod, that it is good to have some buyers report problems they encounter with vendors. I do not see why that means that AVS should be required to stop such a vendor from advertising on the site. Due care, before making a purchase, is the responsibility of the consumer. I do not see how AVS is supposed to protect us from making problematic purchasing decisions. In fact, I think if AVS were to actually ban a certain vendor from placing ads, AVS would, most likely, be put in legal jeopardy for unfair business practices by depriving a vendor from having a equal access to the market place. AVS is not the legal authority which is charged with overseeing who may stay in business.

Who is creating the "unfair business practice " here AVS or TVA .It's AVS site, they decided who get's to run an "ad"on their site. Nobody governs that except themselves.
How about TVA's continued bad business practices ?
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post #18 of 34 Old 01-01-2007, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stocky View Post

Who is creating the "unfair business practice " here AVS or TVA .It's AVS site, they decided who get's to run an "ad"on their site. Nobody governs that except themselves.
How about TVA's continued bad business practices ?

Be specific please. What bad business practices are you referring to. Most of the complaints I have seen tend to refer to people not getting their orders shipped when promised, and having trouble getting details or tracking numbers. I may have missed it, but has anyone actually claimed that they have never got their order and also never got their money back on an unfilled order. I have no personal knowledge of any of the TVA transactions, but the complaints that I have read on here usually state that their credit card was charged and then the shipment was either shipped late or was still pending. I would cancel and have the credit card company reverse the payment at the first sign that the order was not being filled as promised. I would do that on an online order for even a small ticket item.

That is all in the consumer's hands. How is AVS supposed to police each transaction. They just sell ad space. Ever notice Network TV ads for Beer. Some indicate that if you drink their brand of beer, you will become a chick magnet. Buyer Beware. OK. Who can document that they have been defrauded by a vendor. Provide that documentation to AVS, and then you can make a reasonable basis for them to consider stopping the vendor from advertising, and you will also have a case to take to small claims courts. Frustration with how a business follows through is not fraud. It is poor customer service. When you encounter it. Stop doing business with who ever behaves that way, be it online, Brick and Mortar, Lawn Care, Car Mechanics etc.
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post #19 of 34 Old 01-01-2007, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Be specific please. What bad business practices are you referring to. Most of the complaints I have seen tend to refer to people not getting their orders shipped when promised, and having trouble getting details or tracking numbers. I may have missed it, but has anyone actually claimed that they have never got their order and also never got their money back on an unfilled order. I have no personal knowledge of any of the TVA transactions, but the complaints that I have read on here usually state that their credit card was charged and then the shipment was either shipped late or was still pending. I would cancel and have the credit card company reverse the payment at the first sign that the order was not being filled as promised. I would do that on an online order for even a small ticket item.

That is all in the consumer's hands. How is AVS supposed to police each transaction. They just sell ad space. Ever notice Network TV ads for Beer. Some indicate that if you drink their brand of beer, you will become a chick magnet. Buyer Beware. OK. Who can document that they have been defrauded by a vendor. Provide that documentation to AVS, and then you can make a reasonable basis for them to consider stopping the vendor from advertising, and you will also have a case to take to small claims courts. Frustration with how a business follows through is not fraud. It is poor customer service. When you encounter it. Stop doing business with who ever behaves that way, be it online, Brick and Mortar, Lawn Care, Car Mechanics etc.

Without question it always seems that TVA basically dropps the ball, most of the time ( almost all ) the CC has been charged imeadiately and the consumer does not get the said product when they were promised. Now were not talking days here,people are complaing about no tracking info no delivery info, and oreders still not being completed after 30 days,when they were promised in a week. I'm going by what I recall, I don't have a log of all the complaints,this is basically the same TVA complaint over and over.

As for the banner, you're correct. AVS cannot police this site, but one would think it's on a much smaller scale and that when it comes time to renew their ad/banner, someone would step and and question whats going on.

I would love to see AVS pull up all the old complaints about TVA, I don't think they have the ability to, but I betcha they could start their own forum section with all the complaints.

I'm curious as to what happened to the OP who originally stated his displeasure with TVA .
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post #20 of 34 Old 01-01-2007, 07:57 PM
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If all is fair, then I would like to purchase a banner ad that reads "Don't Buy From TV Authority" Do you think that would fly? My point being that the AVS forum bears a certain amount of responsibility to both advertiser and consumer so long as it chooses to engage in taking money for ad space. I don't have an fully-formed opinion (yet) as to what the limitations of these responsibilities should be in a forum like this. Draw near and ye shall be heard... I guess.

I gave up on TVA and called my CC company for a charge back. It will take some time for it to show up on my account, but my word is all that is needed to reverse charges it seems. I have been making online transactions for almost 10 years and this is the first problem I have had so I had no knowledge of this process.

I suspect the bad business practice that is being employed by TVA is drop shipping on customers' (as in many; collectively) capital without consent. A model in which TVA extends no capital or credit of their own to buy in bulk and drop ship from a third party when the numbers work. This is fine as long as they inform us going into the transaction. This is essentially "Power Buy" logistics without telling us first.

TVA being a "Forum Alliance Member" was a factor in my choosing to do business with them coupled with a very good price. I have gotten numerous criticisms from members saying that if I had done due diligence I would not have landed myself in this situation. Ok... all of you. Do a search right now and point me to the relevant posts that should have warned me of TVA's recent problems. It's not that easy to find. Hopefully someone will be able to search and find my post. Let me help by adding a few searchable keywords:

TVA, TVAuthority, Scam, Unethical, Cash Flow Problem

Here's one: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ht=tvauthority
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post #21 of 34 Old 01-01-2007, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigsnack View Post

If all is fair, then I would like to purchase a banner ad that reads "Don't Buy From TV Authority" Do you think that would fly? My point being that the AVS forum bears a certain amount of responsibility to both advertiser and consumer so long as it chooses to engage in taking money for ad space. I don't have an fully-formed opinion (yet) as to what the limitations of these responsibilities should be in a forum like this. Draw near and ye shall be heard... I guess.

I gave up on TVA and called my CC company for a charge back. It will take some time for it to show up on my account, but my word is all that is needed to reverse charges it seems. I have been making online transactions for almost 10 years and this is the first problem I have had so I had no knowledge of this process.

I suspect the bad business practice that is being employed by TVA is drop shipping on customers' (as in many; collectively) capital without consent. A model in which TVA extends no capital or credit of their own to buy in bulk and drop ship from a third party when the numbers work. This is fine as long as they inform us going into the transaction. This is essentially "Power Buy" logistics without telling us first.

TVA being a "Forum Alliance Member" was a factor in my choosing to do business with them coupled with a very good price. I have gotten numerous criticisms from members saying that if I had done due diligence I would not have landed myself in this situation. Ok... all of you. Do a search right now and point me to the relevant posts that should have warned me of TVA's recent problems. It's not that easy to find. Hopefully someone will be able to search and find this. Let me help by adding a few searchable keywords:

TVA, TVAuthority, Scam, Unethical, Cash Flow Problem

It sounds like your CC company will treat you with respect, and that's what you expect.
I have not done a search on TVA in the forum. I don't blame you for a second. I believ as I think I already stated that all of the older TVA threads are no longer archived and personally I think all of the "bad press" TVA threads were perminantly removed . ( just my opinion)

As you stated, you based part of your choice of TVA on the fact that they WERE A FORUM SPONSER !
Does that that make you stupid, NO WAY.

AVS ! pay attention and DO YOUR HOMEWORK ! There have been enough threads deleted by your staff about TVA , stop taking their money and do right by the people that frequent your site. <---------- it will never happen.
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post #22 of 34 Old 01-02-2007, 12:50 PM
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Aren't the Ad Banners on this site just online billboards. They allow people to visit the vendor sites. Once a person does go to the vendor site, isn't it up to the shopper to handle their business. Electronic superhighway Billboards are very much the same as Billboards along the roadways. A billboard that steers people to visit a certain men's clothing store for instance. If you go to that store, and have trouble with your order, do you expect the billboard operator to stop posting that store's billboards,or do you still work on the old principle of buyer beware, and buyers who have complaints take them up with the store, and if neccessary take legal action.

All the vendor banners that I see on AVS are just billboard ads. They make no specific promises about what you will experience once you log on to any vendor's site. People who make a major purchase at an online only site, because they want the lowest price possible, should really have some clue that corners must be getting cut, by those who operate on such low margins. I sometimes come across people who have placed an order with an online site, who have no free exchange or return within thirty days, and the purchaser will have also purchased an extended service contract, as an insurance policy against problems down the road, but takes one of the biggest gambles of all to save a hundred or two, by rolling the dice that nothing goes wrong with his online only vendor transaction.

Buyer beware. Do due diligence. If you still want to go to an online vendor, and place an order, then by all means do so. It is your call. Stop asking AVS to not take in AD revenue. That is what they have this site designed to generate. They are not in the business of sheltering people from their own purchasing risks.

AVS sells traffic to Advertisers, just the same as TV sells ratings, or newspapers sell circulation. Try asking a TV network to stop taking ADs from a beer company because you switched to that brand, and it did not turn you into the chick magnet that the commercial promised.
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post #23 of 34 Old 01-02-2007, 07:28 PM
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Greenland, I can see your point. But the phrase "forum sponsor" seems to indicate a higher level of AVS confidence in the listed companies. I had originally assumed that all sponsors would be safe purchases because I trust the people behind this site. To me, that's the question. Is there any level of vetting for sponsors? I think AVS could have any policy on that - as long as they make it clear.

Anybody know what the policy is? Woodrow?
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post #24 of 34 Old 01-03-2007, 12:28 AM
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I'm not so stupid that I don't understand Greenland's point about online billboards, but you have to admit that this possibly creates a problem. I would like to read the charter for the Alliance and see if TVAuthority has violated any of its tenants .

My credit card company credited my account today and even credited the interest accrued. I doubt if TVA even knows what's happened yet. I'm pretty sure there are satisfied TVA customers out there. I think there could be more if they were up front with the process. It must suck being an employee there knowing the game they have to play on a daily basis. I'm now starting the search anew for a PDP 5070HD.
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post #25 of 34 Old 01-03-2007, 04:05 AM
 
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I never thought much about it but if TVA charges the full amount to your credit card before they ship your panel, God knows when, you have to pay off the credit card by the end of the billing cycle to avoid a finance charge... regardless if you've received the PDP or not, ouch!
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post #26 of 34 Old 01-03-2007, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashti View Post

Greenland, I can see your point. But the phrase "forum sponsor" seems to indicate a higher level of AVS confidence in the listed companies. I had originally assumed that all sponsors would be safe purchases because I trust the people behind this site. To me, that's the question. Is there any level of vetting for sponsors? I think AVS could have any policy on that - as long as they make it clear.

Anybody know what the policy is? Woodrow?

EXACTLY !
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post #27 of 34 Old 01-03-2007, 10:25 AM
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Last thoughts on the subject.

If you go to the most used search engine on the planet, Google, and perform this test search. Plasma TV. Notice who comes up as a site to go to. Same when you search for LCD TV, and also when you enter DLP TV. The vendor that a lot of people wanted blocked from AVS, comes up on the return page on Google. I would imagine that generates a hell of a lot more traffic than AVS does. No matter how one gets linked to a vendor site, why would anyone feel that it is OK for them to let down their consumer awareness guard. If you OK a vendor to charge your account before they have the order ready to ship and provide a tracking number, then nobody can protect you from your own lack of caution. Buyer Beware, Buyer Beware, Online Buyer you had better be more alert than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Anyone care to pester Google to stop linking users to a certain site that some want to have removed from AVS. Sauce for the goose, you know.
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post #28 of 34 Old 01-03-2007, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Vashti View Post

Greenland, I can see your point. But the phrase "forum sponsor" seems to indicate a higher level of AVS confidence in the listed companies. I had originally assumed that all sponsors would be safe purchases because I trust the people behind this site. To me, that's the question. Is there any level of vetting for sponsors? I think AVS could have any policy on that - as long as they make it clear.

Anybody know what the policy is? Woodrow?

I have no inside information about AVS policy, but I alway took it to mean that they were advertisers on the forum. The term sponsor is used all the time to refer to Businesses that purchase Commercials, Ads, or Naming Rights. How often does one hear the media say: "Thanks to all our sponsors". I always understood that to mean, thanks for buying commercials so that we can stay in business".
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post #29 of 34 Old 01-04-2007, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Last thoughts on the subject.

If you go to the most used search engine on the planet, Google, and perform this test search. Plasma TV. Notice who comes up as a site to go to. Same when you search for LCD TV, and also when you enter DLP TV. The vendor that a lot of people wanted blocked from AVS, comes up on the return page on Google. I would imagine that generates a hell of a lot more traffic than AVS does. No matter how one gets linked to a vendor site, why would anyone feel that it is OK for them to let down their consumer awareness guard. If you OK a vendor to charge your account before they have the order ready to ship and provide a tracking number, then nobody can protect you from your own lack of caution. Buyer Beware, Buyer Beware, Online Buyer you had better be more alert than a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. Anyone care to pester Google to stop linking users to a certain site that some want to have removed from AVS. Sauce for the goose, you know.

I don't believe this is an 'apples to apples' comparison for the following reason: when I go to Google and do a search, I know that what I'm getting back as search results are the result of either: 1) search engine optimization on the part of TVA, 2) paid Google ad space by TVA, or 3) traffic flow by other people resulting in a higher hit rate. Or said differently, results at Google are very clearly not attached or affiliated with Google.

The AVS Forum is clearly not Google. Even making the comparison is a serious stretch of credibility. Why?

First of all, there is are a limited number of advertisers on the AVS Forum, making it a much smaller universe of discussion.

Second, for business model purposes, AVS Forum prohibits "price talk" to protect their advertisers and forum sponsors, which is perfectly reasonable to me, but in the context of a badly performing advertiser / sponsor who is allowed to continue being an advertiser / sponsor and enjoy a somewhat cloistered competitive environment even in light of their bad performance / behavior, this starts to make less sense (to me).

Third being a generic advertiser on Google is quite different (in my mind, and likely in most people's minds) from being a "forum sponsor" -- especially in light of the price talk restrictions. Whether intended or not, it implies some sort of endorsement of a "quality product or service" on the part of AVS Forum of it's sponsors.

And last, but not least, and this is related to my first point, not only is the "space" here smaller (i.e. limited advertisers and community members), the value this Forum provides is in the expertise of it's Forum members. That value is based on long-term credibility of their experience, shared opinions, and technical expertise. In this environment, the truly valuable forum members end up rising to the top of the heep based on . . . . . [wait for it] . . . the perceptions and endorsements of others. An AVS Forum member who has been widely discredited, behaves unethically, or in general exhibits exceptionally bad behavior, would either be totally and completely ignored, or would at some point (one would hope) be banned by the Moderators (or at minimum have their offending posts removed). What it sounds like is bothering some people (myself included) is that TVA has exhibited some of the aforementioned bad behaviors, and because they pay their ad space fee, are still allowed to continue to participate, which is, in effect, a tacit endorsement or agreement by the folks who run the AVS Forum, which in effect says: "As long as your check to us doesn't bounce, you can continue to be a forum sponsor / advertiser."

[steps off soap box, crosses fingers]
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post #30 of 34 Old 01-04-2007, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by dhodory View Post

I don't believe this is an 'apples to apples' comparison for the following reason: when I go to Google and do a search, I know that what I'm getting back as search results are the result of either: 1) search engine optimization on the part of TVA, 2) paid Google ad space by TVA, or 3) traffic flow by other people resulting in a higher hit rate. Or said differently, results at Google are very clearly not attached or affiliated with Google.

The AVS Forum is clearly not Google. Even making the comparison is a serious stretch of credibility. Why?

First of all, there is are a limited number of advertisers on the AVS Forum, making it a much smaller universe of discussion.

Second, for business model purposes, AVS Forum prohibits "price talk" to protect their advertisers and forum sponsors, which is perfectly reasonable to me, but in the context of a badly performing advertiser / sponsor who is allowed to continue being an advertiser / sponsor and enjoy a somewhat cloistered competitive environment even in light of their bad performance / behavior, this starts to make less sense (to me).

Third being a generic advertiser on Google is quite different (in my mind, and likely in most people's minds) from being a "forum sponsor" -- especially in light of the price talk restrictions. Whether intended or not, it implies some sort of endorsement of a "quality product or service" on the part of AVS Forum of it's sponsors.

And last, but not least, and this is related to my first point, not only is the "space" here smaller (i.e. limited advertisers and community members), the value this Forum provides is in the expertise of it's Forum members. That value is based on long-term credibility of their experience, shared opinions, and technical expertise. In this environment, the truly valuable forum members end up rising to the top of the heep based on . . . . . [wait for it] . . . the perceptions and endorsements of others. An AVS Forum member who has been widely discredited, behaves unethically, or in general exhibits exceptionally bad behavior, would either be totally and completely ignored, or would at some point (one would hope) be banned by the Moderators (or at minimum have their offending posts removed). What it sounds like is bothering some people (myself included) is that TVA has exhibited some of the aforementioned bad behaviors, and because they pay their ad space fee, are still allowed to continue to participate, which is, in effect, a tacit endorsement or agreement by the folks who run the AVS Forum, which in effect says: "As long as your check to us doesn't bounce, you can continue to be a forum sponsor / advertiser."

[steps off soap box, crosses fingers]

APPLAUDS ! Well Said !
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