LED lcd VS Plasma - which is better? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 254 Old 05-06-2009, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ll Viper ll View Post

You've definetely come to the right place! You're already on the right track if you are considering picking up a Kuro. I went through a lot of lcds before I eventually got my Pioneer. It's not that I didn't recognize the superior quality of the Kuros, the prices were just too high until recent events in the market transpired. Now that I have one, I am absolutely positive that it was worth every penny that I paid for it. In fact, I was so blown away by just how much better Pioneers are than everything else that I can totally justify paying MSRP for any kuro. They really are of superior quality, and I have no doubt that you will get A LOT of use out of it in the next 5-10 years. I would normally say that you'd be buying a new tv long before it even starts to reach its half-way point, but the kuro is so good that you might not feel the need to purchase anything else...ever again.

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Originally Posted by gus738 View Post

no picture quality is not the reason but rather the reliablity of hardware issues that involve the tv out of comission.

its not the picture but the actual componets that fail rate is best pioneer then panasonic and samsung.

production for pioneers ends this month then its a hit or miss if you find a pioneer tv. if you can get an elite get it

Many thanks, Gus! Guess I'd better hustle off to the TV store and look for a Pioneer, if none available will check out the Samsung.

Greatly appreciate the tips!
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post #92 of 254 Old 05-07-2009, 08:16 PM
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check in with mutiple magnolia or bestbuy stores and the warehouse so they can order one, if not try out forum member sponsers

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post #93 of 254 Old 05-10-2009, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by gus738 View Post

check in with mutiple magnolia or bestbuy stores and the warehouse so they can order one, if not try out forum member sponsers

Thank you, Gus! Definitely appreciate the kind welcome to the forum and the helpful information.

I'm on some other forums too and I know it can some times be irritating for senior forum members when a "noob" shows up and asks what might be a considered a very searchable question.

I'm trying to ease myself back in to the "audiophile" world (I've got lots of catching up to do after many years of being away from nice stereo gear) and get smart on the various flat panel displays available too.
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post #94 of 254 Old 05-12-2009, 12:47 PM
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i've yet to see an lcd that can match the pq of a calibrated lcos sxrd with a properly operating ob, a big qualifier as most owners are painfully aware.
superb pq with better blacks and motion handling than any lcd currently
available. my ob went bad, so i thought i'd better grab something to keep me happy given the high standards to which i've become accustomed.

got a pio kuro 5020 for 2K before they disappearred and it is clearly superior
to the best sxrd. no way any lcd touches this. argue all you want, but
the objective measurements do not lie, not do the opinions of well respected
calibrators.

neflixis our nemesis
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post #95 of 254 Old 05-21-2009, 12:56 AM
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LCD TV has gained some great strive forward when it comes to improvements in black levels and sometime its head to head with plasma displays. But, the fact remains same; Plasma displays still maintain their main spot.
LCD consumes less power than plasmas, because it utilizes florescent backlighting for image reproduction.
Plasmas give us better performance when it comes to the high transitioning images.
Considering the sizes of both the TVs; LCD screens offers higher resolution than plasma. Accordingly, prices go up for the LCDs.

Warm Regards,
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post #96 of 254 Old 07-05-2009, 06:07 PM
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Hey guys. I'm sorry I'm a newbie but seems like you guys know what you're talking about. I'm trying to decide between the new 55" Vizio 551XVT LED backlit unit due out in a couple months and the 58" samsung plasma at Sams. Model is PN58B540. both are close in price.......My budget is around 2 grand. thanks in advance!
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post #97 of 254 Old 07-05-2009, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by virp123 View Post

Considering the sizes of both the TVs; LCD screens offers higher resolution than plasma. Accordingly, prices go up for the LCDs.


Huh?
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post #98 of 254 Old 07-05-2009, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by greenwave1 View Post

Hey guys. I'm sorry I'm a newbie but seems like you guys know what you're talking about. I'm trying to decide between the new 55" Vizio 551XVT LED backlit unit due out in a couple months and the 58" samsung plasma at Sams. Model is PN58B540. both are close in price.......My budget is around 2 grand. thanks in advance!

I would go with the Samsung. It's the better of the two. You wont have any regrets.
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post #99 of 254 Old 07-05-2009, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by greenwave1 View Post

Hey guys. I'm sorry I'm a newbie but seems like you guys know what you're talking about. I'm trying to decide between the new 55" Vizio 551XVT LED backlit unit due out in a couple months and the 58" samsung plasma at Sams. Model is PN58B540. both are close in price.......My budget is around 2 grand. thanks in advance!


Samsung all the way. if you are even considering and LED back lit set you need to do some serious reading. And, to be honest, Vizio is nowhere near the same league as Samsung or Panasonic. Again, do some reading.
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post #100 of 254 Old 07-05-2009, 09:21 PM
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Plasma still due to superior motion. LED LCD will get "Samsung is the key" there better motion at the end of it's life cycle when OLED is about to come out and in mass.

Awaiting the Reference Standard in Blu Ray REGION FREE Player Technology and EW service..............................still waiting. :)
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post #101 of 254 Old 07-10-2009, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by vtms View Post

Well, the new LED-LCDs from Samsung and JVC have 10K:1 and 12K:1 contrast ratios respectively, so that gap is shrinking fast.

LCDs = motion blurrrr. No ifs. No buts. No maybes. Too much latency.

LED back lighting on LCDs does not help one iota.
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post #102 of 254 Old 07-10-2009, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by virp123 View Post

LCD consumes less power than plasmas, because it utilizes florescent backlighting for image reproduction.
Plasmas give us better performance when it comes to the high transitioning images.
Considering the sizes of both the TVs; LCD screens offers higher resolution than plasma. Accordingly, prices go up for the LCDs.

I would like to know what you are smoking.

Non-led LCDs do not consume less power than Plasmas. My 2008 50" Panny plasma uses 200-300W (varies with picture brightness) as measured by me. In night mode, this TV uses <200W. My brother's 2008 Sony LCD actually uses more power, and is a constant power consumer !!

Don't believe the hype.

LCDs have significantly less apparent resolution during motion due to latency. LED back lighting cannot cure this. Such is the nature of LCD.
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post #103 of 254 Old 07-11-2009, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

I would like to know what you are smoking.

Non-led LCDs do not consume less power than Plasmas. My 2008 50" Panny plasma uses 200-300W (varies with picture brightness) as measured by me. In night mode, this TV uses <200W. My brother's 2008 Sony LCD actually uses more power, and is a constant power consumer !!

Don't believe the hype.

LCDs have significantly less apparent resolution during motion due to latency. LED back lighting cannot cure this. Such is the nature of LCD.

well unless your brothers lcd was put in torch mode.the reality is lcds do consume less power for the same given brightness.there are tons of reviews and article that says lcds are more efficient.

newer lcds do offer the same motion resolution as premium plasma,again not all plasma cah show full motion resolution.
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post #104 of 254 Old 07-11-2009, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by aim120 View Post

newer lcds do offer the same motion resolution as premium plasma,again not all plasma cah show full motion resolution.

The only way an LCD can have equal motion resolution to Plasma is by letting the software add non-existing frames to the content (interpolation).

This may be a flashy trick at first, but soapy motion is not true motion performance. this process adds unwanted artifacts, and removes the film look from movies.

Any TV (plasma or LCD) can implement motion interpolation. But LCD is the only tech that really needs it to measure a high number.
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post #105 of 254 Old 07-12-2009, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post

well unless your brothers lcd was put in torch mode.the reality is lcds do consume less power for the same given brightness.there are tons of reviews and article that says lcds are more efficient.

newer lcds do offer the same motion resolution as premium plasma,again not all plasma cah show full motion resolution.

For LCD's, it does not matter whether you are in "torch" mode or "normal" mode as they use constant power. However, for Plasma Displays the power usage will vary considerably between light and dark scenes, or particular modes that crank up the brightness. The difference in power usage between the 2 types of displays is so negligible that it is a moot issue altogether. But this false argument regarding power usage is often used by LCD marketeers & sales people to dupe uninformed buyers like yourself.
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post #106 of 254 Old 07-12-2009, 02:36 PM
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ujz you're welcome any more questions let me know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uzj100 View Post

Thank you, Gus! Definitely appreciate the kind welcome to the forum and the helpful information.

I'm on some other forums too and I know it can some times be irritating for senior forum members when a "noob" shows up and asks what might be a considered a very searchable question.

I'm trying to ease myself back in to the "audiophile" world (I've got lots of catching up to do after many years of being away from nice stereo gear) and get smart on the various flat panel displays available too.

greenwave its simple the samsung panasonic as others have said, not only is the vizio pos but its also an lcd, too easy of a question!.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenwave1 View Post

Hey guys. I'm sorry I'm a newbie but seems like you guys know what you're talking about. I'm trying to decide between the new 55" Vizio 551XVT LED backlit unit due out in a couple months and the 58" samsung plasma at Sams. Model is PN58B540. both are close in price.......My budget is around 2 grand. thanks in advance!


virp lcd has improved true and lcd can still waste more power for example if you watch movies with dark scenes plasma will generate LESS power.
as far as resolution lcd does NOT offer more then plasma if you have 2 flat screens at same size 50" (lcd and plasma) they will both have the same resolution same specs if they are the same numbers like 1080p, Lcd doesn't offer more.

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Originally Posted by virp123 View Post

LCD TV has gained some great strive forward when it comes to improvements in black levels and sometime its head to head with plasma displays. But, the fact remains same; Plasma displays still maintain their main spot.
LCD consumes less power than plasmas, because it utilizes florescent backlighting for image reproduction.
Plasmas give us better performance when it comes to the high transitioning images.
Considering the sizes of both the TVs; LCD screens offers higher resolution than plasma. Accordingly, prices go up for the LCDs.

Thank you! lcd doesn't waste more but pepster your panasonic Peaks out at 300 watts but i've never seen one use all that amount
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Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

I would like to know what you are smoking.

Non-led LCDs do not consume less power than Plasmas. My 2008 50" Panny plasma uses 200-300W (varies with picture brightness) as measured by me. In night mode, this TV uses <200W. My brother's 2008 Sony LCD actually uses more power, and is a constant power consumer !!

Don't believe the hype.

LCDs have significantly less apparent resolution during motion due to latency. LED back lighting cannot cure this. Such is the nature of LCD.


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post #107 of 254 Old 07-12-2009, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by gus738 View Post

ujz you're welcome any more questions let me know.



greenwave its simple the samsung panasonic as others have said, not only is the vizio pos but its also an lcd, too easy of a question!.




virp lcd has improved true and lcd can still waste more power for example if you watch movies with dark scenes plasma will generate LESS power.
as far as resolution lcd does NOT offer more then plasma if you have 2 flat screens at same size 50" (lcd and plasma) they will both have the same resolution same specs if they are the same numbers like 1080p, Lcd doesn't offer more.



Thank you! lcd doesn't waste more but pepster your panasonic Peaks out at 300 watts but i've never seen one use all that amount

That motion resolution crap is getting old quick. The test itself tests something you cant see in real would video or film watching.

Perhaps there is slight and I mean slight advantage for a plasma in this regard but you better have a keen eye and be looking for it.

You can look for it while while I will still be able to tell you what the movie was about or the score of the current game.

The problem with motion resolution is that when motion gets that fast your eye percieves it as blur anyway. So if you could actually see that resolution it would look unrealistic.
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post #108 of 254 Old 07-14-2009, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

I would like to know what you are smoking.

Non-led LCDs do not consume less power than Plasmas. My 2008 50" Panny plasma uses 200-300W (varies with picture brightness) as measured by me. In night mode, this TV uses <200W. My brother's 2008 Sony LCD actually uses more power, and is a constant power consumer !!

Don't believe the hype.

LCDs have significantly less apparent resolution during motion due to latency. LED back lighting cannot cure this. Such is the nature of LCD.

Ok, I picked up a Kill a Watt meter, and on a simple test... LCD uses less power.

Vizio VO47L FHDTV30A
1080p, 10-bit panel
vs
Panasonic TC-42PX14
720p, 600hz subfield

Using the custom setting on the Panasonic, I set the Contrast to 65 and the Brightness to 61. It sucks between 180 to 225 watts, depending on the content.

On the Vzio, I punched the backlight up to 80, Contrast 58, Brightness 48. It sits at a steady 177 watts. Now, that being said, I usually keep the backlight at 50 or lower. At 50, it only uses 155 watts. If I want to watch a movie in the dark, I'd drop the backlight down to about 10, and I would guess the lcd would probably use about 135 watts.

So, my lcd with 5 extra inches of screen space and 1080p is more energy efficient than a 42" plasma at 720p. Also, keep in mind that a plasma displaying 1080p will use more power than a 720p panel.

BTW, I've viewed much content on these two sets, and the only time I can notice motion blur is on some occasional text scroll. Most broadcast channels these days have changed the way the text scrolls, so that's usually not an issue anymore. It's also highly dependent on the source feed. Playing Rockband 2 on the Wii with a Composite cable, the lyrics blur pretty bad. Changing the cables to Component and the Wii to 480p cleans it up quite a bit. Not perfect but a definite improvement. Now I need to test it on a 360 with hdmi to see how the lyrics do. I've switched back and forth between the Vizio and the Panasonic with different games looking for a difference in blur, and aside form the the lyrics in Rockband, I just haven't found it (or can't perceive it). Long gone are the days of ghosting mouse trails on LCD. Probably when LCDs started dropping to sub 8ms response levels. I think people need to let go of what they've heard and base their opinions on real life experience. New LCDs have made great improvements in performance. Just the same as image retention on Plasmas is not really much of an issue any more, and energy use has improved.

Point being (on the LCD motion issue), if I'm spending all my time trying to see what's near impossible to perceive with the human eye, I'm not enjoying the content.

One final thing. Vizios aren't 'pos'. That's purely subjective and based off someone's perception of quality. They just hit a different price point demo than some people prefer. I, for one, didn't have $1500 to spend on a 47" lcd. I did however, pick the Vizio up at Costco well under $1000. The same size/features from a Samsung or Sony would have cost me another $500+. People are willing to make sacrifices in what their tv can do if they can save a bundle. From a value proposition, I think Vizio offers quite a bit.

Now, if you value the qualities of a Plasma over an LCD, take the 3 extra inches and go for the Samsung, especially if they're the same price point. But if you're dealing with a lot of ambient light in the room, you will see reflections and direct lights will reflect ... directly. I, for one, will be very interested to see how Vizio does with their first LED backlit tv.
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post #109 of 254 Old 07-15-2009, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post

well unless your brothers lcd was put in torch mode.the reality is lcds do consume less power for the same given brightness.there are tons of reviews and article that says lcds are more efficient.

newer lcds do offer the same motion resolution as premium plasma,again not all plasma cah show full motion resolution.

The measurement of motion resolution manufacturers put on the box is not a predictor of how well the picture will hold together when fast motion is happening on the screen.

Period.

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post #110 of 254 Old 07-16-2009, 01:35 AM
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The measurement of motion resolution manufacturers put on the box is not a predictor of how well the picture will hold together when fast motion is happening on the screen.

Period.

well i haven't seen manufactures putting any info on the box about the motion resolution.i am saying measurements done by pro review sites and even they say that human eye can't differentiate b/w a tv that shows around 600 lines to a tv that shows 1080lines of motion resolution.

about power consumption well the fact is lcds still have the edge in power efficiency with tons of reports/test/reviews confirming the same.
unfortunately in here there are lot of plasma fan boys that continue to defend without proof.
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post #111 of 254 Old 07-16-2009, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ll Viper ll View Post

^This is the painful, but obvious truth. I went through many lcds from the top manufacturers before I finally was able to pick up a 5020FD at a great price. I'm sad to see Pioneer take a leave from the business, but it's the only way I was able to afford one.

I'm not saying Kuro is perfect by any means. DSE is slightly bothersome, buzzing is annoying, and Pioneer plasmas do have a higher level of noise at a very close distance than other panels. But the PQ advantage achieved by having near absolute blacks AT THE PIXEL LEVEL is impossible to overestimate. LED lcds do look considerably better than the best CCFL has to offer, but the there is still a performance gap. I agree with the above post in that LED lcds can never surpass Kuro Elites. They may be able to go brighter, but overall contrast in difficult scenes will always be considerably weaker. Kuros also have impecable grayscale, gamma, color, motion resolution, etc...

For that reason I don't think anything will trully pass 9g kuros until a superior technology (OLED probably) comes into its own (I doubt first gen models will be better overall). It seems that most people that really appreciate superior quality displays and pinpoint image accuracy will continue to have this opinion. Perhaps Panasonic could surprise everyone next year with a revolutionary, rather than their typical evolutionary, amount of progress.

IMHO A good CRT is the superior display and can surpass the Kuro in many aspects however never in the oh so important thinness race .
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post #112 of 254 Old 07-16-2009, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkball View Post

Ok, I picked up a Kill a Watt meter, and on a simple test... LCD uses less power.

Vizio VO47L FHDTV30A
1080p, 10-bit panel
vs
Panasonic TC-42PX14
720p, 600hz subfield

Using the custom setting on the Panasonic, I set the Contrast to 65 and the Brightness to 61. It sucks between 180 to 225 watts, depending on the content.

On the Vzio, I punched the backlight up to 80, Contrast 58, Brightness 48. It sits at a steady 177 watts. Now, that being said, I usually keep the backlight at 50 or lower. At 50, it only uses 155 watts. If I want to watch a movie in the dark, I'd drop the backlight down to about 10, and I would guess the lcd would probably use about 135 watts.

So, my lcd with 5 extra inches of screen space and 1080p is more energy efficient than a 42" plasma at 720p. Also, keep in mind that a plasma displaying 1080p will use more power than a 720p panel.

I have a new 50" Panasonic plasma and 3 year old 37" Westinghouse LCD and the LCD gets much hotter than the plasma. Maybe the plasma uses more power, but it must use the power more efficiently.

I've read that the new line of Plasma's from Panasonic and Samsung use much less power than earlier models. The savings in energy costs are negligible between the new plasma's and LCD's.
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post #113 of 254 Old 07-16-2009, 05:20 AM
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I find a few things funny here at the forums.

1. People seem to drinking the coolaid on power use. If you buy a 1500+ TV and are worried about the difference of 10 dollars ish a year for power you shouldnt be buying a 1500+ dollar tv.

2. If the heat any of these sets are giving off is to much for you then you have bought a set to big by 2 fold for your room.

Now as far as CRT beating Flat panel. There is important area where the flat panel rules and this area trumps all other probable losses. Size size size. The larges tube HD widescreen set is 34.

Now I love Love Love the darkest blacks you can have. IMO it sets everything else up in line for the set. Proper color shading. shadow details contrast etc etc etc.

However if my choice is 34 or 52 with todays quality on the 50+ inch flat panel technologies LCD included as that is what I have. I will take the FP everytime. 34 inches would require me to sit 3 feeet from the screen to enjoy it.

Hell my PC monitor is 32 inches now lol.
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post #114 of 254 Old 07-16-2009, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post

well i haven't seen manufactures putting any info on the box about the motion resolution.i am saying measurements done by pro review sites and even they say that human eye can't differentiate b/w a tv that shows around 600 lines to a tv that shows 1080lines of motion resolution.

about power consumption well the fact is lcds still have the edge in power efficiency with tons of reports/test/reviews confirming the same.
unfortunately in here there are lot of plasma fan boys that continue to defend without proof.

Samsung and Panasonic put it on their new plasma boxes.

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post #115 of 254 Old 07-21-2009, 01:03 AM
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My advice would be to research the best calibration settings of the two sets u are considering, print them out, go to the store have them play a blu-ray movie like batman or transformers with those settings and you will be able to make the best decision that way.,,,plus any sales person who wants to make a commission would not mind,,, Its like choosing speakers if you can't the tell difference from Bose to B&W speakers why spend the extra money.
With that being said, you’re probably going to like the plasma.
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post #116 of 254 Old 07-21-2009, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ranagill View Post

My advice would be to research the best calibration settings of the two sets u are considering, print them out, go to the store have them play a blu-ray movie like batman or transformers with those settings and you will be able to make the best decision that way.,,,plus any sales person who wants to make a commission would not mind,,, Its like choosing speakers if you can't the tell difference from Bose to B&W speakers why spend the extra money.
With that being said, you're probably going to like the plasma.

This is excellent advise.

People who prefer Plasma tend to be those that want to eek out the last bit of detail in dark scenes. Plasma does this. The Batman reference above will give you plenty of dark scenes to compare with.

LCD does better with whites, in my opinion. Plasma gives you whites, LCD gives you whites - with bleach.

People will argue endlessly about which is more technically correct, but if one technology generates whites that look better to you than the other, that is the best one for you.

Other issues are personal also. Plasma has a wider viewing angle. If this is important to you in your environment, it is a factor in your decision. If not, I would not buy Plasma for a feature I don't need.

LCD is better with reflective environments. If you control light in your viewing area, great. Even so, Plasma tends to reflect even your image watching the set in dimly lit rooms, so test this out.

Burn in is real with Plasmas. If you are a gamer, or, tend to put on a channel with a set logo for long periods of time I'd opt for LCD. No image retention or burn in worries. Burn in is like cutting your hair - once it's done, it's done.

With regular viewing of TV and movies, I would not worry about burn-in, unless you tend to use the set as noted above.

Both technologies have their fans. Unfortunately, this tends to blind those fans to the benefits of the opposing technology.

In the marketplace, LCD is currently king and plasma is not the price leader, but trailing in sales.
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post #117 of 254 Old 07-21-2009, 06:27 AM
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This thread is just what I was looking for. Thanks for all of your opinions and the information you've shared. It's really helping me make an informed decision as to what type of TV I want to consider purchasing.
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post #118 of 254 Old 07-21-2009, 06:46 AM
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The masses have spoken,LCD has crushed and killed the now obsolete plasma screen.

Newer LED LCD model will unbury the plasma and make sure it's deader than dead.
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post #119 of 254 Old 07-21-2009, 08:02 AM
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When you see a post that so totally blasts one technology in favor of another, disregard that post.

I have a plasma and I like it. I have an LCD, and I like it. Each has its own plusses and minuses.

Ranagill gave sound advice. Read the forum here to get a general feel for things and then test out those sets you have in mind yourself. You're the one who will be living with your decision, not those over the top "experts".

Mike
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post #120 of 254 Old 07-21-2009, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Railfan View Post

When you see a post that so totally blasts one technology in favor of another, disregard that post.

Exactly. Whenever you see something like this, it simply reveals that the person lacks the ability for maintaining complicated, nuanced thought, as if their brain might explode if they did. Either that, or they're just intellectually and emotionally insecure and blanket dismissiveness makes them feel good about themselves for a little while.


Sad, either way.

Mourning the disappearing usage of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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