LED lcd VS Plasma - which is better? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 254 Old 07-27-2009, 05:16 AM
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People didn't seem to get as defensive when the issue of DLP rainbows was discussed. Some people clearly saw these, others not.

After reading about the issue, I did a quick check at my local retailers and found that neither my wife or I saw any rainbows with any of the DLP sets we viewed.

That didn't mean that the person next to us didn't see them, or that the subject should be banned from discussion based on my personal experience.

Fear that others may not adopt a particular technology because of a display characteristic is pure fanboy paranoia. If you know about the issue, a few minutes looking at a set would tell you if you see anything undesirable in the picture.

The real competition is how a set looks when compared with others. Here is where plasma is having competitive problems in the marketplace. They just don't look as sharp and bright as LCD.

The sharp and bright LCD factor is the less accurate picture, but it does draw attention and has a certain "wow, that's what I want" factor. Kind of like listening to Klipsch speakers and hearing what appears to be more detail in music than anything else you've heard.

With Klipsch, you'll likely have a headache after an hour of listening. Same with LCD in your home, cranked up to torch mode.

Neither plasma nor lcd technology is perfect, but the imperfections in each technology differ enough to attract different types of buyers, who perceive images differently.
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post #182 of 254 Old 07-27-2009, 10:46 AM
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You make some good points, but there seems to be a rabid group here who will pounce on ANY perceived flaw in plasma and shout it anywhere and everywhere. I have no idea why. Perhaps it's because they are immature and feel the need to validate their buying decision. Whatever the reason it is tiring. Problem is too many people looking for info take their comments as fact, when any of us with a bit of knowledge and a brain know it to be false. In this case, while the issue may affect only a very small portion of the population, close to 1 or 2 %, the LCD fanboys will take it and run with it. The point is to make it known that it exists, but is rare.

My desire is to promote and encourage a technology that I feel is superior. The LCD crowd seems to want to run roughshod over all of us in the attempt to impose their technology on all of us. Plasma needs very vocal supporters to counter this group. While neither technology is perfect in my experience owning both I feel plasma is much superior.
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post #183 of 254 Old 07-27-2009, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

People didn't seem to get as defensive when the issue of DLP rainbows was discussed. Some people clearly saw these, others not.

After reading about the issue, I did a quick check at my local retailers and found that neither my wife or I saw any rainbows with any of the DLP sets we viewed.

That didn't mean that the person next to us didn't see them, or that the subject should be banned from discussion based on my personal experience.

Fear that others may not adopt a particular technology because of a display characteristic is pure fanboy paranoia.
If you know about the issue, a few minutes looking at a set would tell you if you see anything undesirable in the picture.

The real competition is how a set looks when compared with others. Here is where plasma is having competitive problems in the marketplace. They just don't look as sharp and bright as LCD.

The sharp and bright LCD factor is the less accurate picture, but it does draw attention and has a certain "wow, that's what I want" factor. Kind of like listening to Klipsch speakers and hearing what appears to be more detail in music than anything else you've heard.

With Klipsch, you'll likely have a headache after an hour of listening. Same with LCD in your home, cranked up to torch mode.

Neither plasma nor lcd technology is perfect, but the imperfections in each technology differ enough to attract different types of buyers, who perceive images differently.

+1. Wow! You sum up the recent posts so well!
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post #184 of 254 Old 07-27-2009, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zack8322 View Post

You make some good points, but there seems to be a rabid group here who will pounce on ANY perceived flaw in plasma and shout it anywhere and everywhere. I have no idea why. Perhaps it's because they are immature and feel the need to validate their buying decision. Whatever the reason it is tiring. Problem is too many people looking for info take their comments as fact, when any of us with a bit of knowledge and a brain know it to be false. In this case, while the issue may affect only a very small portion of the population, close to 1 or 2 %, the LCD fanboys will take it and run with it. The point is to make it known that it exists, but is rare.

My desire is to promote and encourage a technology that I feel is superior. The LCD crowd seems to want to run roughshod over all of us in the attempt to impose their technology on all of us. Plasma needs very vocal supporters to counter this group. While neither technology is perfect in my experience owning both I feel plasma is much superior.

More of the fanboy paranoia!
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post #185 of 254 Old 07-27-2009, 02:04 PM
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Selecting a set should be based on pq, not how that pq was delivered,

If you pick your top three sets and they all use the same technology to deliver the image, your eyes and brain have a preference for a particular type image. That is perfectly fine, regardless of the technology.

If you can only pick a favorite set if you know the technology, you're letting your preconcieved technology bias make the decision for you, not your eyes. This is still ok, if it makes you happy with your purchase.

It does not mean that you have picked a technically superior set, that all others should buy.
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post #186 of 254 Old 07-27-2009, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

selecting a set should be based on pq, not how that pq was delivered,

if you pick your top three sets and they all use the same technology to deliver the image, your eyes and brain have a preference for a particular type image. That is perfectly fine, regardless of the technology.

If you can only pick a favorite set if you know the technology, you're letting your preconcieved technology bias make the decision for you, not your eyes. This is still ok, if it makes you happy with your purchase.

It does not mean that you have picked a technically superior set, that all others should buy.

Agreed. Thank you for stating this.
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post #187 of 254 Old 07-27-2009, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

Selecting a set should be based on pq, not how that pq was delivered,

If you pick your top three sets and they all use the same technology to deliver the image, your eyes and brain have a preference for a particular type image. That is perfectly fine, regardless of the technology.

If you can only pick a favorite set if you know the technology, you're letting your preconcieved technology bias make the decision for you, not your eyes. This is still ok, if it makes you happy with your purchase.

It does not mean that you have picked a technically superior set, that all others should buy.

It's about time someone started showing reason around here, good posts!

Be a fan of displays, not companies or technologies!
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post #188 of 254 Old 07-27-2009, 09:03 PM
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While we're on the topic of which panel has more issues (as if it were new around here ), I recently had the opportunity to view Sonys' Z panel. My buddy was playing "Bugs Life" on BD, and while he had it in Torch mode with MF cranked to the gills, what I noticed was that the angles seemed to be pretty good. It seemed to be much better than Sonys other offerings.

Can anyone tell me what type of panel Sony is using in their Z series?
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post #189 of 254 Old 07-29-2009, 10:27 AM
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I'm considering a 55" or so panel. Currently have a 52" Vizio LCD and it gives off a lot of ambient light when room is dark. Am considering plasma or led lcd panel. With plasma prices now down to level of LCD, what are advantages of LED LCD over plasma?
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post #190 of 254 Old 07-29-2009, 10:32 AM
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xenophonite by the sounds of things you are assuming lcd is better? a plasma is better in Picture Quality then a lcd, just about any entry level panasonic / samsung plasma is better.

whats your budget? im assuming its a reasonable amount if you considerd LED. the G or V series panasonic plasma are nice. plasma is still king of PQ and has less visable flaws then lcd even LED isnt so great (especially for the cost of LED compared to its plasma counterpart.

LED is the same thing just lcd with leds on the edge its able to produce more contrast but it clips shadow detail and whites. get plasma
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I'm considering a 55" or so panel. Currently have a 52" Vizio LCD and it gives off a lot of ambient light when room is dark. Am considering plasma or led lcd panel. With plasma prices now down to level of LCD, what are advantages of LED LCD over plasma?


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post #191 of 254 Old 07-29-2009, 10:42 AM
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I'm looking to spend under $2K for >55". Costco has a 58" Panasonic plasma w/in budget. Does plasma (entry level) still have a lower half life or has that been resolved? I guess it doesn't matter since I upgrade fairly often, but still curious. Haven't looked seriously at plasma until the prices started to come down.
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post #192 of 254 Old 07-29-2009, 10:48 AM
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xenophonite you will never ever ever reach even HALF brightness. lets say you watch tv 12 hrs a day x 365 = 4,380 hrs a year x 10 yrs = 43,800

you will replace the tv if anything sooner, and thats watching tv 12 hrs a day!.

need i say more?

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I'm looking to spend under $2K for >55". Costco has a 58" Panasonic plasma w/in budget. Does plasma (entry level) still have a lower half life or has that been resolved? I guess it doesn't matter since I upgrade fairly often, but still curious. Haven't looked seriously at plasma until the prices started to come down.


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post #193 of 254 Old 07-29-2009, 10:48 AM
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100,000 hours,
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post #194 of 254 Old 07-29-2009, 11:01 AM
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The operating hours is one of the most useless specs (along with response time).

IMO, the lifetime should reflect the component, which has the shortest operating hours at room temp
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post #195 of 254 Old 07-29-2009, 12:18 PM
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My Sony Flat Trinitron Wega CRT has better blacks than any Panasonic plasma
and the Loewe Aconda CRT has better blacks and grey scale than a Kuro

So go for a LED , OLED...cause Plasma is finished !

Remember the Neopdp name is just a name...nothing better than a 3 year old Kuro Pioneer
in fact the G10 has a native 40.000...the Pioneer Kuro krp-500A has 100.000 right now!!
i bet this is the last Panasonic plasma generation...wait for the sales rate !
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post #196 of 254 Old 07-29-2009, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ertoil View Post

My Sony Flat Trinitron Wega CRT has better blacks than any Panasonic plasma
and the Loewe Aconda CRT has better blacks and grey scale than a Kuro

So go for a LED , OLED...cause Plasma is finished !

Remember the Neopdp name is just a name...nothing better than a 3 year old Kuro Pioneer
in fact the G10 has a native 40.000...the Pioneer Kuro krp-500A has 100.000 right now!!
i bet this is the last Panasonic plasma generation...wait for the sales rate !


Why would you recommend going with an inferior (to this day IMO) technology? But hey, LCD's sure are bright and flashy on the showroom floor. OLED? When can I buy one without also having robbed Fort Knox? Like you, I still prefer CRT, but for me, LCD is an unacceptable replacement. Plasma is the only suitable alternative.

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post #197 of 254 Old 07-29-2009, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ertoil View Post

My Sony Flat Trinitron Wega CRT has better blacks than any Panasonic plasma
and the Loewe Aconda CRT has better blacks and grey scale than a Kuro

So go for a LED , OLED...cause Plasma is finished !

Remember the Neopdp name is just a name...nothing better than a 3 year old Kuro Pioneer
in fact the G10 has a native 40.000...the Pioneer Kuro krp-500A has 100.000 right now!!
i bet this is the last Panasonic plasma generation...wait for the sales rate !

What the heck are you talking about?

If you believe CRT is better than current LCD/PDP, more power to you. But don't wrap it up as facts.

PS: CRT has way more issues than LCD and PDP combined. Also, the G10 doesn't have 40,000:1 DR
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post #198 of 254 Old 07-29-2009, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mobius View Post

Why would you recommend going with an inferior (to this day IMO) technology? But hey, LCD's sure are bright and flashy on the showroom floor. OLED? When can I buy one without also having robbed Fort Knox? Like you, I still prefer CRT, but for me, LCD is an unacceptable replacement. Plasma is the only suitable alternative.

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Well, people blast technologies in different ways - some subtile some overt.

Those who blindly support plasma blatently ignore the heat, weight, reliability and burn in issues inherent in that technology.

Those in the LCD camp overlook motion blur, off angle viewing, and crushed blacks.

In the end, like with most things, different people put different priorities on these things and tend to go for the one whose limitations bother them (or are not even noticed by them) the least.

One key difference in the technologies is that they excel at opposite ends of the visual spectrum. Plasma excels at deriving detail in dark and shadow. LCD excels at bringing white whites to the viewer in dynamic fashion.

If you are a shadow guy, plasma is your king. If you're more interested in bright colors that pop, LCD is hard to ignore.

The mass market appears to really like bright colors that pop.

well, to me that sums it pretty much. I for one came from an XBr CRT of yester years and was pretty much reading every post I can read here.
purchasing both Plasma and LCD, the final decision was my very own set of eyes and the current conditions of my humble home theater. at a viewing distance of 8 feet max, i settled for a 42 inch.
after everything said and done, my eyes settled for a G10 as the Kuro was pretty much out of my budget. I also tried to see if the LED_Lcd was a possibilty BUT, after watching a movie (say 2 hours maybe) our eyes would hurt a bit. lowering the brightness / contrast makes the overall picture really bad. and yes, i got most of the settings posted here in forum from respected members but as I said, your eyes are the final say
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post #199 of 254 Old 07-29-2009, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ertoil View Post

My Sony Flat Trinitron Wega CRT has better blacks than any Panasonic plasma
and the Loewe Aconda CRT has better blacks and grey scale than a Kuro

So go for a LED , OLED...cause Plasma is finished !

Remember the Neopdp name is just a name...nothing better than a 3 year old Kuro Pioneer
in fact the G10 has a native 40.000...the Pioneer Kuro krp-500A has 100.000 right now!!
i bet this is the last Panasonic plasma generation...wait for the sales rate !

An old member with a new name, what else is new?

Also, if you are going to troll, at least be good at it. Even the information that you provide in an attempt of being objective is completely false.

You may as well pick up a "Glimpse" magazine from your local BB, as it has more information that you have to share, so it'll be a nice starting point for you.
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post #200 of 254 Old 07-30-2009, 02:46 AM
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hey! im not an old member with new name! im a real new one

No , im not recomending inferior technology, do you think a Sony Edge Led is inferior
to a LG plasma?? well...if i would have the money i ll go for the Sony

if you talk about money..yes the G10 is a good one...but we re not talking about money
but technologies...and the krp-500A is the top; the red,blue,green LEDS of Sony
are already above the G10 imho.

if you have only 200 bucks buy a Sony Wega CRT with component input

Sony is returning to the "organic panels" (CRT) with OLED.
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post #201 of 254 Old 07-30-2009, 05:14 AM
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Don't worry this is a war.. there are spies everywhere.. don't leave the house without your tin hat

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post #202 of 254 Old 07-30-2009, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick. View Post

Don't worry this is a war.. there are spies everywhere.. don't leave the house without your tin hat

Hehehe..

¿ Plasma is better than Led ? ¿ in visuals ?

yes it is....but remember that anything behind the 3000 euro Pioneer Kuro Plasma is a cheap thing in plasma ....so what will you do ???

i think is a fact that the Pioneer LCD krl-32v (680) has better blacks than any
LG plasma!!

720p plasmas are much better for mpeg2 TDT and Divx than lcd
SD process of the Panasonic plasmas is worst than LG

for movies you can buy a G10 or a Samsung Led

It has more value a DVD-9 in your hands than hundreds of mkv's downloading
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post #203 of 254 Old 07-30-2009, 06:47 PM
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I agree lcd is unacceptable i would take plasma.

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Originally Posted by mobius View Post

Why would you recommend going with an inferior (to this day IMO) technology? But hey, LCD's sure are bright and flashy on the showroom floor. OLED? When can I buy one without also having robbed Fort Knox? Like you, I still prefer CRT, but for me, LCD is an unacceptable replacement. Plasma is the only suitable alternative.


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post #204 of 254 Old 07-31-2009, 03:19 AM
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I agree lcd is unacceptable i would take plasma.

! Depends ! my LG32PG6000 Plasma "solarisation" problem is unacceptable for me

Do you think the last Leds are unacceptable ?
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post #205 of 254 Old 07-31-2009, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ertoil View Post

i think is a fact that the Pioneer LCD krl-32v (680) has better blacks than any
LG plasma!!

OO you've got one of the Pioneer LCDs How are those anyways? We've never seen them over here.

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post #206 of 254 Old 07-31-2009, 06:41 AM
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take a look ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD668olTerY

its basics are a Sharp panel and box with a Pioneer Black contrast filter and improved
circuitry, some say vivid colors look plasma-like...not the level of a Kuro plasma
of course (0.0031 cd blacks vs 0.04 cd/m2) but this is one of the best if not the best lcd
in its day..now is surpassed by Samsung Leds !

not that good for SD !! some reported Banding and clouding problems!!
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post #207 of 254 Old 07-31-2009, 06:45 AM
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If it's a Sharp banding is always included it seems .004 cd/m2 is a very impressive black level, from what I've seen from reviews that pretty much actually matches the LED sets and the B750 when it comes to black levels (without autodimming)

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post #208 of 254 Old 07-31-2009, 10:40 AM
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Kinda off topic, but...

For those interested in picking up a small LED LCD monitor, Samsung will be shipping their new XL2370 monitor next month! I believe the XL2370 will replace the announced, but not released P2370L. The Syncmaster XL2370 is a 23" monitor with a native resolution of 1920x1080, DVI-I and HDMI inputs, and analog and optical audio outputs (for HDMI audio data). It should be under 4 bills!

http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/07/06...ed-hd-monitor/
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post #209 of 254 Old 07-31-2009, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick. View Post

If it's a Sharp banding is always included it seems .004 cd/m2 is a very impressive black level, from what I've seen from reviews that pretty much actually matches the LED sets and the B750 when it comes to black levels (without autodimming)

I bet my life that 0.04 was achieved with the help of dynamic backlight.
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post #210 of 254 Old 07-31-2009, 01:06 PM
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rgb32 thanks for the info man ! that Samsung monitor looks terrific !

Nielo TM...yeah for sure....but it is not bad

The new Samsung LE32B450 (no LED) calibrated reachs the same 0.04
for sure with auto dimming or something like that..
Samsung was a cheap low quality brand for me...but..something is changing

For the comparison freaks (like me) ; (Pioneer euro model names)

Panasonic TX-P42V10 Plasma : 0.03 out of the box
Panasonic TX-P42G10 Plasma : 0.03 calibrated
Pioneer PDP-4280XD 8G Kuro plasma : 0.03 calibrated

Samsung Leds : 0.03 to 0.01 auto dimming

Pioneer PDP-LX5090 9G Kuro plasma : 0.0031 amazing
Pioneer PDP-KRP-500A Kuro plasma : 0.0025 reference (more than 7 billion colors)
with the biggest grey scale in the market too !
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