LCD or Plasma? Plasma or LCD? and why those Black Bars? Discuss it here only Please - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1448 Old 07-24-2008, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike171979 View Post

Watching 95% SD content is pretty much impossible now a days.

ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX all have almost all of their prime time shows in HD.

Just attach an antenna to your HDTV, and you'll be watching mostly HD.

Assuming you have a cable box or direct TV box that is not HD capable.

Then yes, all of your cable stations will be SD, but whenever you wanted to watch anything on the regular networks, you should view them through your TV's tuner, and most of them will be in HD!!!!

If I had to watch 95% standard I don't think I would make it thru life.
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post #632 of 1448 Old 07-27-2008, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by plmn View Post

Some LCDs do SD better than others [...]

Suggestions?

Thanks.
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post #633 of 1448 Old 07-28-2008, 07:37 AM
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I've pretty much set my sights on a Samsung LCD (LN40A550 or 650), but I can't get the nagging feeling out of my head that a plasma would be better for my purposes. I would love to hear some input on this.

I will use the TV for Xbox 360, HD and SD tv, sports, and DVDs.

Burn in would be a concern for me since I can have pretty long gaming sessions. I've also been known to watch college football for about 12 hours straight on Saturdays in the fall, so tickers might be a problem.

On the other hand I will have three roommates and other friends over so viewing angle is a concern, especially since we won't always be able to fit everyone directly in front of the TV.

So given the pros/cons of each and my particular situation would I be better off with LCD or Plasma? Thanks
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post #634 of 1448 Old 07-28-2008, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunsofmolybdenum View Post

I've pretty much set my sights on a Samsung LCD (LN40A550 or 650), but I can't get the nagging feeling out of my head that a plasma would be better for my purposes. I would love to hear some input on this.

I will use the TV for Xbox 360, HD and SD tv, sports, and DVDs.

Burn in would be a concern for me since I can have pretty long gaming sessions. I've also been known to watch college football for about 12 hours straight on Saturdays in the fall, so tickers might be a problem.

On the other hand I will have three roommates and other friends over so viewing angle is a concern, especially since we won't always be able to fit everyone directly in front of the TV.

So given the pros/cons of each and my particular situation would I be better off with LCD or Plasma? Thanks


Go look in the store. If LCD's shortcomings aren't easily apparent to you, you will probably be perfectly happy with one. Plasma may be a somewhat better quality game display but LCDs are pretty darn good and you don't have to worry about damaging it.

I think sometimes people overthink it. Both technologies are quite good these days, I chose plasma mainly because of the picture quality and size for the price, which LCD couldn't touch.
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post #635 of 1448 Old 07-31-2008, 10:02 PM
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I've been looking mostly at Plasmas but really like the new Samsung LCDs.

It's a strange thing. I get the allure of LCD - it just looks crisp. But I can tell that Plasma presents your eyes with overall a more accurate video signal. Sometimes I like realism, sometimes I like the eye-popping LCD look. I think what kills LCD for me is the motion performance. 120Hz mode looks strange to me as well.
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post #636 of 1448 Old 08-01-2008, 06:24 PM
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I used to work for the largest plasma glass mfg. We had 80% marketshare and our customers included Runco.

Both Plasma and LCD have come along way, and just when everyone thought plasma was dead, it's making a comeback now.

So it's very difficult to shop and compare. Places like Circuit City and Costco connect using component and not hdmi. So find a shop that will let you grab two Bluray players and to your own a/b testing. There's no other way, Everyone sees colors differently and there is no absolute best.

So here's some facts.
- plasma will always have better black, it physics
- plasma will never have the resolution of lcd's. again, physics
- as we move beyond 1080p and start looking at 2k,3k, and 4k displays, these will all be LCD. Plasma can't do these resolutions.
- LCD uses less power. Way less.
- LCD runs cooler
- plasma's claim half life at 100k hours. This is BS. it's closer to 25k. And remember, from the second you turn on your plasma out of the box, it starts to slowly dim. And will continue to dim until it's unusable.

So why area Plasma's still around? Because most people including myself prefer picture quality and speed of plasma. The likelihood of me not upgrading to a new tv in the next 7-9 years is low. So the half-life is not too much a factor.

What would I buy today at 50"+? Plasma.
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post #637 of 1448 Old 08-15-2008, 02:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Gps View Post

So here's some facts.

- plasma will never have the resolution of lcd's. again, physics.

Today they do. 1080p plasma and LCD.

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Originally Posted by 3Gps View Post

- as we move beyond 1080p and start looking at 2k,3k, and 4k displays, these will all be LCD. Plasma can't do these resolutions..

In the 40-70 inch flat-panel world anything above 1080p is going to be pretty much unnoticable by the human eye at normal viewing distance. Those resolutions will only be benifitial in Projectors and 70+ inch monitors (which are non-existant in mass production today.

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- - LCD uses less power. Way less...

this is a factor that always makes me laugh. Todays top of the line plasmas might cost you 2-4 dollars more a month in electricity over the top LCD's. If that is too much money for you then you probably can't afford an HDTV anyway.




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Originally Posted by 3Gps View Post

- - LCD runs cooler...

And???? we are talking TV's not air conditoners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Gps View Post

- - plasma's claim half life at 100k hours. This is BS. it's closer to 25k. And remember, from the second you turn on your plasma out of the box, it starts to slowly dim. And will continue to dim until it's unusable. ...

I don't think thats correct but even if it is....who cares??
If you view your TV 8 hours a day then that is 3125 days. Which comes out to 8 and a half years. Most people will be upgrading to a new Tv long before this. So again, irrelevent.
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post #638 of 1448 Old 08-15-2008, 05:36 AM
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It's not like those CCFL backlights don't die either, most people will not replace them and go out and get a new set, same as Plasma. LEDs so far have not proven reliable either. I think the longevity point is moot until we actually spend 5+ years with current displays.

Be a fan of displays, not companies or technologies!
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post #639 of 1448 Old 08-17-2008, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CC ex View Post

Plasmas have glare issues since they all seem to have the high-gloss screens and they may or may not have burn-in problems. It almost seems like it's a lose/lose situation.

Todays top LCD's (Samsungs) have a glare twice as bad as most plasmas.
Also, with pioneer and panny plasmas you will not need to give burn-in one more thought.
It was an issue years ago but it is fixed not.
todays top plasmas are no more prone to burn-in than a regular CRT television. Did you worry about burn-in with a CRT??
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post #640 of 1448 Old 08-18-2008, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

Todays top LCD's (Samsungs) have a glare twice as bad as most plasmas.
Also, with pioneer and panny plasmas you will not need to give burn-in one more thought.
It was an issue years ago but it is fixed not.
todays top plasmas are no more prone to burn-in than a regular CRT television. Did you worry about burn-in with a CRT??

Actually, yes, my RP-CRT had burn in from 4:3 black bars, even though I thought I was being reasonably careful.

On our old 4:3 CRTs, we rarely watched anything that didn't completely fill the screen, so of course BI wasn't really an issue for all those years.

I don't think it is advisable to imply BI is almost impossible. From what I can tell, nobody who has made such claims has had their TV for much more than a year. So long as phosphors dim over over time, which nobody can dispute, uneven wear can still happen if you ignore the possibility. Maybe not today. Maybe not next year. But eventually, it will.
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post #641 of 1448 Old 08-18-2008, 10:54 PM
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[quote=plmn;14467946]Actually, yes, my RP-CRT had burn in from 4:3 black bars, even though I thought I was being reasonably careful.
QUOTE]

If you got burn-in on a CRT then I highly doubt that you watched carefully.

You must have abused it (unknowingly or knowingly).

Maybe you are confusing Burn-in with Image retention.
there are some good threads that explain the difference between the two, you should check them out. alot of good stuff there.

I still have not found one person with a pioneer kuro who has verifyable burn-in.
Its simply a non issue unless you abuse it horribly. And in the case of serious abuse both LCD and PLasma are at risk of burn-in.
The moral of the story is not to leave a static image on your screen for over 3-4 days and you should be ok.
I have left the PS3 main page running for 12 hours once on my 5080. The only thing I saw was about 2 minutes of slight I.R. which cleared up as soon as I started a movie. I couldn't even see it the screen with the movie playing during those 2 minutes. Only when screen was totally black. And like I said, Once I watched the movie for 2 minutes, the IR. was completly gone.
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post #642 of 1448 Old 08-19-2008, 06:33 AM
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I am talking about BI as uneven wear as in the phosphors will dim unevenly over time if a lot of black bar content is watched. At 100K hours, my plasma will be at 50% brightness according to Panasonic. If some pixels were used considerable less than others, they will be at higher than 50% brighness and the result seen and described as burn in. Granted I probably won't have it for 100K hours but it should be noticeable before that, the only real question in my mind is when.

The examples you gave are about IR. Unless your TV is on 24/7, you have not had it long enough to notice any uneven wear problems. In my old CRT, I almost always zoomed 4:3 content or sometimes used gray bars, because I knew burn in could happen. I hardly ever watched with black bars, although many commercials on HD sources still used them so they weren't completely unavoidable. I believe the BI was caused by the channel guide in my Dish 812 reciever, something I didn't expect would be used enough to cause it. Overall, I watched less black bar content than what Panasonic recommends for their plasmas. And I had my picture settings turned down out of torch mode. Yet burn in still happened within two years.

Perhaps you are right and BI is now almost impossible. I hope so. But given how the technology works, I just don't see how that can be, and so far nobody has been able to explain it to me.
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post #643 of 1448 Old 08-19-2008, 10:34 AM
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Yes, but again, if you Television is on for 6 hours, every single day for 20 years, you'd only be at 42k hours.

Which is no where near 100k hours, which means you're display, by your numbers, will still be at roughly 80% brightness after 20 freakin' years of having it on EVERY SINGLE DAY.

So whatever your PICTURE setting is set at currently, Mine is at 20 on my Panny Plasma, after 20 years, you might have to raise it to 25 or 26 to keep the same level of brightness.

I'll worry about that in 2028 if I'm still alive.
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post #644 of 1448 Old 08-19-2008, 11:54 AM
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Burn-in is such a non-issue when you use a plasma regularly that it is not worth mentioning.
One should be focusing on the things that matter like contrast, black level, color saturation, color accuracy, ability to work well with fast moving images, viewing angle performance, sandwiches,etc.
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post #645 of 1448 Old 08-20-2008, 12:28 PM
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I've made topics on both the LCD and Plasma forums on my situation, but I'm still not sure which way to go, so I may as well give it a shot here.

I've got some credit from a warranty replacement on a SD CRT TV, but the store only carries either Plasma or LCD panels.

The TV will not be hooked up to any cable and will only be used for gaming (PS3, some PS2) and watching TV show seasons on DVD (nearly all of these sets are in 4:3 aspect). I'd prefer to watch them in OAR, so basically, between the occasional PS1/PS2 game and TV show DVDs, about 40% of the sets usage will be 4:3 content (with about 5% for widescreen [2.35:1] movies and the rest full 16:9 content). Is this amount of 4:3 too high for a plasma (the particular one in my price range would be the TH42PX80U)? Would uneven wear rear its head fairly soon?

It seems based on a couple topics on the LCD boards (as well as a few other internet search results) that LCDs, although immune to burn in (at least in definition), can have some visual problems occur when watching a lot of 4:3 content. So, now I have no idea what to get.

I could just hold on to my CRT, but since it is starting to go, I may as well take the full refund amount and put it toward a new set while I can. I don't want to get a nice new TV only to ruin it and I don't want to spend all this money on a TV and not enjoy.

At this point I feel completely lost
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post #646 of 1448 Old 08-21-2008, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc_2k View Post

I've made topics on both the LCD and Plasma forums on my situation, but I'm still not sure which way to go, so I may as well give it a shot here.

I've got some credit from a warranty replacement on a SD CRT TV, but the store only carries either Plasma or LCD panels.

The TV will not be hooked up to any cable and will only be used for gaming (PS3, some PS2) and watching TV show seasons on DVD (nearly all of these sets are in 4:3 aspect). I'd prefer to watch them in OAR, so basically, between the occasional PS1/PS2 game and TV show DVDs, about 40% of the sets usage will be 4:3 content (with about 5% for widescreen [2.35:1] movies and the rest full 16:9 content). Is this amount of 4:3 too high for a plasma (the particular one in my price range would be the TH42PX80U)? Would uneven wear rear its head fairly soon?

It seems based on a couple topics on the LCD boards (as well as a few other internet search results) that LCDs, although immune to burn in (at least in definition), can have some visual problems occur when watching a lot of 4:3 content. So, now I have no idea what to get.

I could just hold on to my CRT, but since it is starting to go, I may as well take the full refund amount and put it toward a new set while I can. I don't want to get a nice new TV only to ruin it and I don't want to spend all this money on a TV and not enjoy.

At this point I feel completely lost


If you break-in the set properly (meaning, don't watch 4:3 content for extended periods of time during first 150 hours or so), then you should be ok with the plasma. Best thing to do is to run the break in disk for first 150hrs IMO.
As long as you are mixing things up a little you should be fine. Meaning if All you watch is 4:3 (with black bars on the side) then you may have some uneven wear. But you said 40% so you should be fine.
And if there ever comes a time when you realize you have been watching 4:3 for a very long time, Then you may want to zoom the picture for a little while.

Really, after the first 150-200 hours you will be fine as long as you dont watch 4:3 with black bars for ridiculously huge amounts of time (meaning weeks non-stop.).
And if your going to watch standard Def like that then you really should not be buying an HDTV anyway. You will be much happier with a non-high def TV.

Chances are, once you watch some blu-ray, you will be blown away and will try to stop watching the 4:3 standard stinky stuff
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post #647 of 1448 Old 08-21-2008, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

And if your going to watch standard Def like that then you really should not be buying an HDTV anyway. You will be much happier with a non-high def TV.

Chances are, once you watch some blu-ray, you will be blown away and will try to stop watching the 4:3 standard stinky stuff

Now that I have the PS3, I'll be picking up Bluray versions of movies and TV shows whenever available. The trouble is my all time favourite shows were made before widescreens and are unlikely to see any HD treatment, so there will always be some SD 4:3 content I'll want to watch on DVD.

Thanks for the input.
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post #648 of 1448 Old 08-24-2008, 08:24 PM
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Hey guys, I just had a quick question. I'm helping a friend pick out a tele, and he has narrowed it down to a lcd, plasma, and rear projection: Samsung LN40A550, Panasonic TH-42PZ80U, and the Samsung HL50A650. He would use it mainly for gaming, maybe some movies.

So, what I was wondering is, which would be best for gaming? Bright things aren't a problem in his room, and neither is wall mounting. Thanks guys!!!!
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post #649 of 1448 Old 08-25-2008, 06:19 PM
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Noob here, comparing Pioneer 5020 and Samsung LN52A750. After sifting through the info here (thanks for the very helpful info, everyone!), I got a nice side-by-side demo at a local high end HT shop. Low- med room light from above, blue ray movie + HDTV content. Sets set up to match pretty closely (no LCD torch mode). The knowledgeable sales technician claimed the Pio was set up optimally. Comments to follow; these are IMO - no blasting the noob or asking me to "correct facts", please. My mind is not totally made up, so if you have thoughts that you think will help enlighten me beyond what's already been laid down in this long thread, please post 'em!

- the 5020 indeed had very slightly better shadow detail. On a few scenes, there was a (very slightly) better sense of depth, as many have said. But the blackest blacks did not appear darker than the LCD - a surprise (maybe they would in a dark room?) Also, I've read Chad xx refer to dark colors "blooming" on LCD's - I couldn't detect this.

- color: toss-up. I could convince myself that the LCD had more "accurate" color as reviewers have said, but this seemed content-dependent (and certainly dependent on the Mode" chosen, i.e., the LCD's Movie mode picks a warm temp).

- otherwise PQ was similar. On some content I preferred the LCD, others the Pio. I doubt I'd be able to tell much difference without the sets side by side. KDF, please hold your fire.

- viewing angle: total non-issue unless you were *way* off-angle (60 deg +). I think the plasma-heads here who keep haranguing about LCD viewing angle issues are prisoners of their own dogma - or maybe out of date (it was worse on other LCD's).

- glare/reflection: LCD was a little worse than the plasma for reflection, but not at all bad. No difference for glare that I could see, unless the LCD was set to ridiculous brightness levels (only done for fun). I never thought about either once I stopped comparing. A total non-issue.

- smoothing/Auto Motion Plus (LCD) - I actually liked the AMP on some movies, if set to "medium". On "high" it did look a little video-ee, but I was surprise by how compelling this looked on some good content. Clearly a matter of taste. To anyone considering a similar choice, look for yourself! Also, with AMP off, I did not see a significant difference in motion quality between the two sets - again, on some content LCD motion actually looked better than the plasma (though this was not true for some lower-end LCD's.) I was surprised by all this, so I must advise those deciding, don't take the plasma-heads' comments on this as gospel! See for yourself.

- "noise" - I could occasionally see some on the plasma, a sort of "fizz" in medium-dark regions of uniform color where the pixels seemed to jiggle around a brightness level. "Noise" in quotes since it was not random. Mind you I have good eyes, it was not common, and hardly noticeable at 8 feet. I did not see this in the LCD.

- "trivial" stuff: I like having the USB input. Handy to pop in a flash drive with pix and see a great slide show - worked beautifully. And I found the Samsung remote/interface easy to use. Pio was OK, to.

Anyway, a few surprises, not many. If my wife really likes the AMP it will be hard to justify the Pioneer with the Sammy to be had for $1800 and falling. Plasma-heads, rejoice, you can still count the plasma as a (very) slightly better pic if only for the black levels/detail. But I can see how someone can credibly find some of the LCD features can balance out this very fine difference.

One negative - I've mentally compiled a short list of posters here whose comments I have to ignore or de-emphasize for their obvious dogma and bias. Probably not alone here. Still, thanks again to everyone for sharing their knowledge in an incredibly helpful thread!

Noob
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post #650 of 1448 Old 08-26-2008, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koho View Post

Noob here, comparing Pioneer 5020 and Samsung LN52A750. After sifting through the info here (thanks for the very helpful info, everyone!), I got a nice side-by-side demo at a local high end HT shop. Low- med room light from above, blue ray movie + HDTV content. Sets set up to match pretty closely (no LCD torch mode). The knowledgeable sales technician claimed the Pio was set up optimally. Comments to follow; these are IMO - no blasting the noob or asking me to "correct facts", please. My mind is not totally made up, so if you have thoughts that you think will help enlighten me beyond what's already been laid down in this long thread, please post 'em!

- the 5020 indeed had very slightly better shadow detail. On a few scenes, there was a (very slightly) better sense of depth, as many have said. But the blackest blacks did not appear darker than the LCD - a surprise (maybe they would in a dark room?) Also, I've read Chad xx refer to dark colors "blooming" on LCD's - I couldn't detect this.

- color: toss-up. I could convince myself that the LCD had more "accurate" color as reviewers have said, but this seemed content-dependent (and certainly dependent on the Mode" chosen, i.e., the LCD's Movie mode picks a warm temp).

- otherwise PQ was similar. On some content I preferred the LCD, others the Pio. I doubt I'd be able to tell much difference without the sets side by side. KDF, please hold your fire.

- viewing angle: total non-issue unless you were *way* off-angle (60 deg +). I think the plasma-heads here who keep haranguing about LCD viewing angle issues are prisoners of their own dogma - or maybe out of date (it was worse on other LCD's).

- glare/reflection: LCD was a little worse than the plasma for reflection, but not at all bad. No difference for glare that I could see, unless the LCD was set to ridiculous brightness levels (only done for fun). I never thought about either once I stopped comparing. A total non-issue.

- smoothing/Auto Motion Plus (LCD) - I actually liked the AMP on some movies, if set to "medium". On "high" it did look a little video-ee, but I was surprise by how compelling this looked on some good content. Clearly a matter of taste. To anyone considering a similar choice, look for yourself! Also, with AMP off, I did not see a significant difference in motion quality between the two sets - again, on some content LCD motion actually looked better than the plasma (though this was not true for some lower-end LCD's.) I was surprised by all this, so I must advise those deciding, don't take the plasma-heads' comments on this as gospel! See for yourself.

- "noise" - I could occasionally see some on the plasma, a sort of "fizz" in medium-dark regions of uniform color where the pixels seemed to jiggle around a brightness level. "Noise" in quotes since it was not random. Mind you I have good eyes, it was not common, and hardly noticeable at 8 feet. I did not see this in the LCD.

- "trivial" stuff: I like having the USB input. Handy to pop in a flash drive with pix and see a great slide show - worked beautifully. And I found the Samsung remote/interface easy to use. Pio was OK, to.

Anyway, a few surprises, not many. If my wife really likes the AMP it will be hard to justify the Pioneer with the Sammy to be had for $1800 and falling. Plasma-heads, rejoice, you can still count the plasma as a (very) slightly better pic if only for the black levels/detail. But I can see how someone can credibly find some of the LCD features can balance out this very fine difference.

One negative - I've mentally compiled a short list of posters here whose comments I have to ignore or de-emphasize for their obvious dogma and bias. Probably not alone here. Still, thanks again to everyone for sharing their knowledge in an incredibly helpful thread!

Noob


I have said it before and it again, Never go by what you see in a store.
Sometimes issues don't pop up until you get the set home in that environment and feed the set various sources.


Quote:


Also, with AMP off, I did not see a significant difference in motion quality between the two sets - again, on some content LCD motion actually looked better than the plasma (though this was not true for some lower-end LCD's.)

I would say your observation is totally a matter of opinion and definitly not fact. Your definition of "better" is not shared by scientists, reviewers and most viewers. It may be personal preference that you have toward the way AMP make motion look strange and unnatural that makes you think "better".
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post #651 of 1448 Old 08-26-2008, 01:49 PM
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Chad - I wish I had the luxury of time to take the sets home. No dice, so I'll have to go by what I've seen, unless someone has some more illuminating comments.
One thing I forgot to point out - the Pioneer had good sound, the Sammy OK.

As for your comments, Chad, of course my observation is one of opinion - see the IMO up front in my post. The "strange and unnatural" is your observation - please don't project it onto my opinion. These sorts of statements are why I'd urge people to see this feature themselves. Many do like it. Why so defensive?

Oh, that's right - you're on my short list.

Ken
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post #652 of 1448 Old 08-26-2008, 04:01 PM
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lol!!!!!!

Nice write-up, Koho. BTW, not to, you know, start a fight or anything, but I think that I'm much more noob than u

example: WTF is 'IMO'!?!?!?!?!!?!?
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post #653 of 1448 Old 08-27-2008, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Gps View Post

So here's some facts.
- plasma will always have better black, it physics
- plasma will never have the resolution of lcd's. again, physics
- as we move beyond 1080p and start looking at 2k,3k, and 4k displays, these will all be LCD. Plasma can't do these resolutions.

At CES this year, Panasonic showed off a 150" 4K plasma prototype. So it is possible -- on very large displays, anyways.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khb0HUIMZ6Y
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post #654 of 1448 Old 08-30-2008, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koho View Post

Chad - I wish I had the luxury of time to take the sets home. No dice, so I'll have to go by what I've seen, unless someone has some more illuminating comments.

Take it from someone who actually has taken the Top LCDs and top plasma home and fed it various sources.
In fact, I have had many more LCD's than plasmas.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Koho View Post

Oh, that's right - you're on my short list.

Ken

Is that the list of people who have actually compared the two at home instead of 10 minutes at BB/CC???
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post #655 of 1448 Old 08-30-2008, 07:45 AM
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I have been in some hi-end home theater store which had the Samsung A650/750 and the Pioneer side by side playing the same source. In some cases the Samsung had a better picture and in some the Pioneer did.

There some die heart plasma fans on this board, who believe plasma is the only way to go but trust your eyes. If you like the LCD picture get it, if you like the plasma get. Its' your money and you are going have to live with it, not some reviewer or anyone on this board.

Just enjoy what every you buy, because sometime ignorance is bliss.
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post #656 of 1448 Old 09-02-2008, 04:13 AM
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Buyers remorse is a terrible feeling. So, before you buy, try to find someone who actually already owns the kind of set you are considering and ask if you can come over for a look-see. That person should be able to more accurately demonstrate what the set is actually capable of. If you don't know anyone like that, then check out your choice of sets in as many different stores as possible. Ask if it is OK to fiddle with the settings in each store. Also bring in any DVD you may have that might showcase something that is important to you, and ask to have it shown on the set you are interested in.
While it is true that once you get the set home and away from any other competing sets you probably won't notice any of the minute differences between them, but it is also true that in time you will notice shortcomings, or things you don't like.
So my advice? Test many sets in multiple locations. Listen and pay attention to those who actually own those sets. And remember: You get what you pay for.

Mike

"Common Practice Does Not Necessarily Mean Common Sense."
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post #657 of 1448 Old 09-03-2008, 06:54 PM
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My 6 year old 42" Hitachi HD CRT rear projection set went black on me today accompanied by an unpleasant burning smell. Now I'm debating repairing it or moving on.

My problem is that although HD content looks good on LCD and plasma sets, I still find a lot of good things to watch that are not on the HD channels. Frankly most flat panel sets I've looked at display quite ugly SD video compared to my CRT projection set.

Anyway, I've just started poking through this thread to see if there have been any discussions of this issue and would be interested in comments from those of you who have been in the middle of this for a while.

My goal is to find an affordable 42" set as a replacement.

John K.
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post #658 of 1448 Old 09-03-2008, 08:22 PM
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i posted a similar question in the plasma forum, but i'll give it a shot here too:

Considering zero ambient light, are current plasmas' black levels deeper than current LCD, or about equal? Coming from CRTs, I'm not 100% pleased with the detail in the dark scenes on my LCD.

My Samsung 650 looks BLACK in a lit room, while my old CRT has that greenish gray hue, and I know plasmas have the same look when they're in a lit room. But turn off the light, and its a different story: http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9906/crtlcdxd5.jpg (long exposure, obviously, but it illustrates my point. the sammy's backlight is at 3 and the CRT is showing a brighter picture here )

How do plasmas fare in dark room conditions?
(the reason i have to ask is because i don't know anyone with a newer plasma and showrooms are rarely pitch black)
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post #659 of 1448 Old 09-05-2008, 08:31 AM
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finally going to upgrade from 5+ yr old rear projection tv (samsung).

which display type would be best suited for video gaming? lcd, plasma, or dlp?

i would say 60+% gaming, 20% sports (nfl, nba, soccer), 10% movies (blu ray, dvd), 10% general SD (news, sit coms, etc).

my concerns:

-burn ins
-motion blurring while watching sports or playing fast paced games
-ambient lighting (a lot of sunlight)
-life span (probably won't upgrade for another 5+ yr)

any suggestions on models? i've mainly researched and the samsung lines.

pn50a550
ln52a650
hl50a650

also considered front projection projectors, but lamp lifes would kill me since i do a lot of gaming....and i don't have a dedicated theatre room either...so ambient lighting would be an issue. but opinions on this is welcomed also.
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post #660 of 1448 Old 09-06-2008, 02:28 PM
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I have done a lot of research, a great deal of reading on this forum and quite a few other sources. I am replacing a ten year old Sharp Cinemavision 36" CRT. It still looks great but I am a movie buff and I want to start enjoying HD viewing. My use will be 50% TV (mostly HD, Movies, Sports and Cable/Network Programming), 30% DVD (mostly SD, upconverted, some old B&W classics), 15% gaming (have not decided on a HD console yet, probably XBox) and 5% HTPC. Of course, once I get this all setup my usage profile may change. I may end up doing more gaming or PC use than I am anticipating. I have eclectic tastes and do a little bit of everything so I need the best all around set.

My room is one with several large windows so glare is an issue during the day. Of course the CRT picks up a lot of reflaction as it is. I have loked at a lot of sets in the stores with a variety of content. I basicaly feel like the PQ is very close on all of the 50" LCDs and Plasma screens that I am choosing between. I am down to 4 TVs I am considering for my first HD set.

1. Plasma - Panasonic TH-PZ85U or TH-PZ800u

Pros - Black levels, Smoothness of image quality, Features for price in 50" size, Manufacturer reputation for Quality and service,Simplpicity of setup

Cons - Brightness, Possible Glare, Heat, Energy consumption, Longevity of screen and image quality and IR


2. LCD - Samsung LN52A650 or LN52A750

Pros - Brightness, Sharpness of image, no IR, possibly less glare, lowere energy consumption and heat

Cons - Sharpness (seems almost too sharp with some content), Price, Maufacturers reputation for poor service, difficulty of setup (multiple firmware revisions, a lot of tinkering to get picture looking as good as possible), possibly more quality issues/technical problems

Bottom line, I think PQ is now really similar. Most sets seem to be able to be adjusted to look very good with most content. I would like to get a set, set it up once and not have to mess with it to much. It seems like the LCD owners are having more problems, have to update firmware a lot more and generaly play with settings to get different kinds of content to look good. I am too lazy to be fiddling with al this stuff too much after the fact. I may end up having the set professionally calibrated but I don't mind the DIY approach if it does not cause me to loose to much sleep to get it right.

Basicaly I am looking for some of the extremely knowledgeable folks here to give me a push in the form of a few key facts to get me off the fence and into enjoying a new HD TV. I don't mind personal prejudices at all, in fact I am glad to have some strong opinions to help me to make a decision.

Anyway, thanks in advance for reading my rambling nonsense, I hope to join in the fun with the rest of the HD TV owners on here soon.
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