LCD or Plasma? Plasma or LCD? and why those Black Bars? Discuss it here only Please - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 1447 Old 10-12-2010, 10:57 PM
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I'm not sure why but to me they both have beautiful colors and pq but the led's just look nearly three dimensional compared to plasma, artificial or not. I notice it in plasma as well but not nearly as much. They both look good though.
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post #1172 of 1447 Old 10-12-2010, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by keytrnr View Post

I'm not sure why but to me they both have beautiful colors and pq but the led's just look nearly three dimensional compared to plasma, artificial or not. I notice it in plasma as well but not nearly as much. They both look good though.

I agree. The LED's just have a level of "pop" thats just not present in either the conventional CCFL LCD's or plasma. I can understand people saying they look "over processed" as they have an almost ethereal quality about them.

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post #1173 of 1447 Old 10-17-2010, 02:46 PM
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Of course they have that "pop" ,it's because there a lot brighter than plasmas, you can light your whole home and half the neighborhood with one of them babies LOL, but an artificial looking picture is an artificial looking picture period. Consumers are so misinformed about the tech's, especially plasma and they see the way LED's look in the showroom with them all turned on vivid mode outputting them as bright as possible but again I'll say this for the last time and it's been said by many , plasma's have a more real, film like picture too them than any LED/LCD. People are brain washed into getting these overly bright over saturated colored LED's when they go to the showroom because they are completely misinformed about plasma, I know I was one of them and I know many many more. Hey people enjoy your LED's, have fun watching them, I still enjoy watching both of mine, they are great TV's and people are going to enjoy that artificial looking PQ but to get that true film like experience there is nothing that compares to a good quality plasma display. Even gaming looks better on plasmas but you have to be a little more careful when gaming on plasma's otherwise they are stunning. I'm not trying to sound like a plasma fanboy, I'm really not even though it does come across as such,again I own 2 high quality LED's, I'm just trying to inform people like many others have tried to do when it comes to plasma tech.
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post #1174 of 1447 Old 10-17-2010, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wallmwallm View Post

Anyone seen a calibrated Quattro with the yellow color added to RGB?

The store was cartooned terribly but the yellows and greens seemed out of reach with the other TVs

As far as I am concerned it is just a gimmick to sell more of their HDTV's.
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post #1175 of 1447 Old 10-29-2010, 02:29 PM
 
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Indeed, artificial and bright LCD/LED tech doesn't hold a candle to the depth that a Pioneer Kuro provides in terms of contrast ratio and black levels. THIS is the primary PQ component above all others (resolution, grayscale and color reproduction, all of which the Kuro also excels). I don't care about brighter environments...for videophiles using the best source (Blu-ray) in the most appropriate environment (darkened), nothing compares. It's a shame Pioneer is no longer in the game, yet the competitors still can't top the pinnacle of PQ 2 years later.

To whomever claimed that a Panasonic panel received CNet's highest rating, that may have been one time, but the latest panel to receive that is the Pioneer PRO-111FD: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...?tag=mncol;lst

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The bottom line: The Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD represents the pinnacle of flat-panel HDTV picture quality.

This doesn't include the even better PRO-101FD/500M monitors that were later released (Pioneer's final models).
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post #1176 of 1447 Old 11-08-2010, 03:01 PM
 
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Did Panasonic tell you about the surprise in their plasmas? At a time of their choosing, the blacks will turn to grey. Have fun!
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post #1177 of 1447 Old 11-09-2010, 10:33 AM
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Tbyrne - not sure who the Panasonic comment was aimed at as I haven't seen anything about them mentioned for months.

Cnet has reported an increase in MLL on the 2010 models, but not nearly as dramatic as that for the 2008/2009 models. Per Cnet, even after the increase, the black level is still better than the competition.

Does not excuse what Panasonic did to owners from previous years and their lack of interest in any type of fix. I have a top of the line 2009 V10 that has gray blacks. However, even in a dark room it is mostly unnoticeable unless watching letterboxed or 4:3 content. Color and gray scale are still good and the picture still has a lot of pop.

Hopefully, some of the Pioneer engineers hired by Panasonic will have corrected this for future models since both Samsung and LG have said they have no interest in making further investments in plasma technology.

It is a shame to think that we may never see a TV with a better picture than the last generation from Pioneer.
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post #1178 of 1447 Old 11-09-2010, 10:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by drfreeman60 View Post

Tbyrne - not sure who the Panasonic comment was aimed at as I haven't seen anything about them mentioned for months.

Cnet has reported an increase in MLL on the 2010 models, but not nearly as dramatic as that for the 2008/2009 models. Per Cnet, even after the increase, the black level is still better than the competition.

Does not excuse what Panasonic did to owners from previous years and their lack of interest in any type of fix. I have a top of the line 2009 V10 that has gray blacks. However, even in a dark room it is mostly unnoticeable unless watching letterboxed or 4:3 content. Color and gray scale are still good and the picture still has a lot of pop.

Hopefully, some of the Pioneer engineers hired by Panasonic will have corrected this for future models since both Samsung and LG have said they have no interest in making further investments in plasma technology.

It is a shame to think that we may never see a TV with a better picture than the last generation from Pioneer.

Actually from what I'm seeing. Samsung looks like they're coming out with even more Plasma HDTV's than I've seen before. As far as worrying that we may never see a TV with a better picture than the Kuro's. If OLED ever goes into production, watch out! It will blow away the other two technologies!
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post #1179 of 1447 Old 11-09-2010, 03:10 PM
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Bright rooms usually mean get LCD. Off-angle viewing usually means get Plasma. I'm hoping one of those statements has been fixed by recent advances, because I have both.

We usually watch at night, but with the room lights on. But I can't spend this much without being able to watch during the day as well. 12 feet of north-facing picture windows are facing the TV, about 15 feet away. It's not like sunlight will be directly hitting the TV, or even the room, generally. But it's far from dark.

Also, we have seating at about 30º off the center-line.

So, which is less of a problem with a 2010 set like Samsung C8000's or Panasonic TV25 or something in that range.

Thanks,
LB
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post #1180 of 1447 Old 11-10-2010, 10:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LazyBoy1 View Post

Bright rooms usually mean get LCD. Off-angle viewing usually means get Plasma. I'm hoping one of those statements has been fixed by recent advances, because I have both.

We usually watch at night, but with the room lights on. But I can't spend this much without being able to watch during the day as well. 12 feet of north-facing picture windows are facing the TV, about 15 feet away. It's not like sunlight will be directly hitting the TV, or even the room, generally. But it's far from dark.

Also, we have seating at about 30º off the center-line.

So, which is less of a problem with a 2010 set like Samsung C8000's or Panasonic TV25 or something in that range.

Thanks,
LB

What's nice about the Samsung's is that they can tilt on their stand. If you are going to wall mount the T.V., just make sure the wall mount can tilt. It is true that Plasmas picture washes out less than LCD's but they too can lose some picture quality as you move off center. Go to the Mangolia section in Best Buy. There you will see different display types in a darker setting. Choose the T.V. that YOU think looks the best. Some people see flickering in plasma's, some don't. I own a Samsung UN60C6300 and am very pleased with it's performance whether in a well lit room or in the dark.
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post #1181 of 1447 Old 11-15-2010, 02:40 PM
 
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I sure hope they can. The picture I saw on the 11" Sony version looked spectacular. The screen is so thin and the picture was jaw dropping!
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post #1182 of 1447 Old 11-16-2010, 11:05 AM
 
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Great points, Rocky!
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post #1183 of 1447 Old 11-16-2010, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by rockypontingg View Post

The difference in performance between fluorescent-backlit LCD TVs and LED-backlit model. Major electronics stores have all but phased out the old CRT television. In plasma has Average screen sizes and range from 32 inches to 63. In LCD has Average screen sizes and range from 13 inches to 65 inches. Plasma and LCD panels may look similar, but the flat screen and thin profile is where the similarities end.

This information looks like it was cut and pasted from something that was published over three years ago. Your other posts also appear to be copy/pasted text from other publications.

You are just pasting sentences copied from other websites into all of your posts to sneak your ipad wholesale spam link past the moderators, and not actually participating in the discussions. That response has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, and was copied from Wikipedia.
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post #1184 of 1447 Old 11-16-2010, 11:58 AM
 
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Hi Randy. Tbyrne here. First, let me stand corrected about the incorrect statement I made about Panasonic LCD's. I have gone to many Electronic stores here in the Sacramento, CA area and have only seen their Plasmas displayed. Of course I only look at the bigger screen HDTV's so I probably didn't even notice them. I have owned many Panasonic products in the past and I would've likely purchased a Panasonic LED LCD in the 55" to 60" category if they made them. Anyways. This rockypontingg poster might be trying to sneak spam in but it doesn't look like he pasted anything. One of his lines start: "In plasma has Average screen sizes and range from". Not a very cohesive sentence, IMO.
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post #1185 of 1447 Old 11-16-2010, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbyrne View Post

This rockypontingg poster might be trying to sneak spam in but it doesn't look like he pasted anything. One of his lines start: "In plasma has Average screen sizes and range from". Not a very cohesive sentence, IMO.

Read his other posts. I already found where he copied some of his sentences from - one looked especially familiar the way it was worded and sure enough, it's from my pal PFC5 on HDF.

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post #1186 of 1447 Old 11-16-2010, 07:18 PM
 
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You're good Randy. Keep up the good work! I like your posts because you give both sides of the arguement. I need to do more likewise.
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post #1187 of 1447 Old 11-23-2010, 08:09 PM
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What is the general consensus at AVSforums in terms of LCD vs Plasma?

If I go Plasma, it will most likely be the Panasonic VIERA TC-P50G25 (ca. $1000).

vs.

If I go LED, it will most likely be the Samsung UN46C6500 (ca. $1400).

Setting:



But most TV/movie watching is done later in the evening.
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post #1188 of 1447 Old 11-23-2010, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GTaudiophile View Post
What is the general consensus at AVSforums in terms of LCD vs Plasma?

If I go Plasma, it will most likely be the Panasonic VIERA TC-P50G25 (ca. $1000).

vs.

If I go LED, it will most likely be the Samsung UN46C6500 (ca. $1400).

Setting:



But most TV/movie watching is done later in the evening.
I would get the Plasma. I think the majority on these forums prefer Plasma but I'm sure a lot like LED as well.
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post #1189 of 1447 Old 11-23-2010, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTaudiophile View Post
What is the general consensus at AVSforums in terms of LCD vs Plasma?

If I go Plasma, it will most likely be the Panasonic VIERA TC-P50G25 (ca. $1000).

vs.

If I go LED, it will most likely be the Samsung UN46C6500 (ca. $1400).

Setting:



But most TV/movie watching is done later in the evening.
During the day, any type of glossy screened tv (Plasma or LCD) will have crazy reflections with the amount of ambient light in there. At night it wouldn't matter much though. If you do most of your watching at night, a plasma will be fine. However if you enjoy some daytime watching too, a matte screen LCD would be your best bet.

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post #1190 of 1447 Old 11-24-2010, 11:57 AM
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I just got back from my local Best Buy...that place is always **** of course...and I have no plans to buy from them...but they are the best thing I have locally to demo hardware.

Anyway, they had plenty of the older G20 series Plasmas but no G25s. They also did not have the Samsung LED that I am considering. That said, I tried to do as much A-to-B testing between LEDs and Plasmas as possible. My thoughts? No doubt that Plasmas appear more natural and while LEDs have an initial "wow" factor due to their level of backlighting, I think that could easily become fatiguing. "Cartoon like" is also a good descriptor of LEDs. So I think I am leaning Plasma: the Panasonic G25, 50".
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post #1191 of 1447 Old 11-25-2010, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTaudiophile View Post

I just got back from my local Best Buy...that place is always **** of course...and I have no plans to buy from them...but they are the best thing I have locally to demo hardware.

Anyway, they had plenty of the older G20 series Plasmas but no G25s. They also did not have the Samsung LED that I am considering. That said, I tried to do as much A-to-B testing between LEDs and Plasmas as possible. My thoughts? No doubt that Plasmas appear more natural and while LEDs have an initial "wow" factor due to their level of backlighting, I think that could easily become fatiguing. "Cartoon like" is also a good descriptor of LEDs. So I think I am leaning Plasma: the Panasonic G25, 50".

Don't forget that the LED's in the store (or any LCD for that matter) have their backlights maxed out and put in Dynamic mode for show room pop. When you get one home, if you turn down the backlight and take it out of Dynamic mode (probably into movie mode or some equivalent) they will cease to look cartoonish and simply look incredibly crisp.

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post #1192 of 1447 Old 11-25-2010, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post

Don't forget that the LED's in the store (or any LCD for that matter) have their backlights maxed out and put in Dynamic mode for show room pop. When you get one home, if you turn down the backlight and take it out of Dynamic mode (probably into movie mode or some equivalent) they will cease to look cartoonish and simply look incredibly crisp.

So you are in the pro-LCD/anti-Plasma camp?
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post #1193 of 1447 Old 11-25-2010, 08:41 AM
 
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You guessed it. ;-)
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post #1194 of 1447 Old 11-25-2010, 08:46 AM
 
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Just as you two are in the pro-Plasma/anti-LCD camp.
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post #1195 of 1447 Old 11-25-2010, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by GTaudiophile View Post

So you are in the pro-LCD/anti-Plasma camp?

Sort of.

I presently own an LCD. I chose LCD because after long deliberation I decided that I could live with the flaws of LCD over the flaws of Plasma.

But the main reason I "champion" LCD around these parts is because I feel that there are an inordinate amount of anti-LCD individuals who post here and many of their reasons for dismissing LCD were very valid reasons a few years ago, but are now only nitpicks and no longer true "flaws" with the technology. They have in essence, been solved. Now I do understand that they haven't been solved to the satisfaction of many posters on these message boards, but claims that plasma is vastly superior to LCD is simply no longer true. Slightly superior, I will concede, but the difference if far far less than it was 2007 and earlier. Both display types look phenomenal. Potential consumers merely need to figure out which particular tech would fit their viewing situation best (or determine which "flaws" they can live with like I did)

I also like to play Devil's Advocate, which around these parts means "defending LCD".

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post #1196 of 1447 Old 11-26-2010, 09:20 AM
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Considering the Panasonic TC-PVT20/25 vs. the Vizio XVT3SV. I owned the Pioneer PDP-5080HD (great picture and it was 720) that just went out. Most TV viewing done at night--like to watch both movies and sports. Viewing distance about 10 to 12 feet so looking at the 58/55 inch screen sizes. Price is NOT important. 3D is not that significant, but I figure if I'm going to spend a couple thousand on a plasma I might as well have the 3D. The Vizio is enticing due to its functionality. Not any significant off-angle viewing. Someone watching from one end of an L-couch might be an issue but 95% of the time its straight on or a 10 to 20 degree angle.

I agree with NuSoardGraphite that many people dog the older issues with LCDs that have been corrected, especially with the newer LEDs. Lots of pros and cons. I'm not sure the picture quality is any different although I haven't seen either of these two screens--I've only owned Plasma because the last time I bought in 2007 there was no question Plasma was better (especially the Pioneers from that time). The stuff about go to the store and watch it is in my opinion pretty much useless. First of all-the store is not the optimum place to view and as noted by many they turn them up to higher settings. I obviously only have experience with the Plasma in my Family Room. I do have a lot of light coming in but not close and with the anti-glare screen it was never a problem. I think much of the pros-cons many people talk about are simply things they are repeating. I would really like to have an unbiased opinion on these two TVs and these two technologies, if possible!

Now, to your neutral corners and no head butting or holding on--give me your best!!!
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post #1197 of 1447 Old 11-26-2010, 11:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Tbyrne View Post
Just as you two are in the pro-Plasma/anti-LCD camp.
When it comes down to it, I'm in the pro-superior PQ camp. I am less enthused by recent offerings from Samsung and Panasonic to be fair (since they both represent steps back from what Pioneer was doing in 2008/9) but I have yet to see a shootout where the Kuro wasn't the resounding winner. With contrast ratio being the most important aspect of PQ as stated by the Image Science Foundation, it's not a hard choice to make.

Case in point: Just picked up a new 32" LG LCD panel for my father's birthday/Christmas, and the viewing angle and inadequate black level problem is still there (mildly improved from 2007 when I was an LCD fanboy to be fair but not a patch on my Kuro). Also, have not personally seen much of the newer LEDs as referenced by Cmulder, but they purportedly introduce their own host of problems (i.e. blooming), further damaging the reputation of LCD/LED for serious videophile viewing (and yes, Panasonic and their rising black level problem has also damaged Plasma's reputation sadly).
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post #1198 of 1447 Old 11-27-2010, 12:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

When it comes down to it, I'm in the pro-superior PQ camp. I am less enthused by recent offerings from Samsung and Panasonic to be fair (since they both represent steps back from what Pioneer was doing in 2008/9) but I have yet to see a shootout where the Kuro wasn't the resounding winner. With contrast ratio being the most important aspect of PQ as stated by the Image Science Foundation, it's not a hard choice to make.

Case in point: Just picked up a new 32" LG LCD panel for my father's birthday/Christmas, and the viewing angle and inadequate black level problem is still there (mildly improved from 2007 when I was an LCD fanboy to be fair but not a patch on my Kuro). Also, have not personally seen much of the newer LEDs as referenced by Cmulder, but they purportedly introduce their own host of problems (i.e. blooming), further damaging the reputation of LCD/LED for serious videophile viewing (and yes, Panasonic and their rising black level problem has also damaged Plasma's reputation sadly).

You are probably correct that plasma is the best for serious videophile viewing. I can't disagree when everyone who own's a plasma touts the superiority of it compared to everything else. However, for me and many others out there, LCD's fill our viewing needs for reasons plasma can't. I don't hate plasma. I'm glad that both plasma & LCD's are giving us consumers a wide choice of screen sizes and viewing pleasures that the old CRT's could never achieve. I believe that people who have plasma's are very satisfied and vise versa. Gotta go. My Football games on!
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post #1199 of 1447 Old 12-02-2010, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by GTaudiophile View Post

I just got back from my local Best Buy...that place is always **** of course...and I have no plans to buy from them...but they are the best thing I have locally to demo hardware.

Anyway, they had plenty of the older G20 series Plasmas but no G25s. They also did not have the Samsung LED that I am considering. That said, I tried to do as much A-to-B testing between LEDs and Plasmas as possible. My thoughts? No doubt that Plasmas appear more natural and while LEDs have an initial "wow" factor due to their level of backlighting, I think that could easily become fatiguing. "Cartoon like" is also a good descriptor of LEDs. So I think I am leaning Plasma: the Panasonic G25, 50".

Best Buy only sells the G20s. It's not a matter of old versus new, but rather a "Best Buy only model." From what I've read the only difference is a Viera Link connection for a home network camera on the G25s.
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post #1200 of 1447 Old 12-03-2010, 06:46 PM
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This may have already been covered in this thread, but seeing as it's 40 pages long I'll just ask anyway.

Do plasmas suffer from the "soap opera" effect? Or is that just an LCD/LED thing?

I was recently over at a friend's house and they just got a new LCD TV. I was watching some older movies and I was really bothered by the "soap opera" effect it had. Even some newer movies looked pretty bad to me. It just looked really fake.

I'm really leaning towards getting a 50" G25, but I wanted to find out if it would also look that way, or if there was a setting when watching movies to get rid of the "soap opera" effect.
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