LCD or Plasma? Plasma or LCD? and why those Black Bars? Discuss it here only Please - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 2Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 1448 Old 12-13-2006, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
Super Moderator
 
markrubin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 22,703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 280
LCD Vs Plasma Flat Panels: and why do I see those black bars?

the eternal discussion: please limit these discussions to this sticky thread only

Please take the high road in every post
Please do not quote or respond to problematic posts: report them to mods to handle
Link to sponsors
good to be back to vBulletin
markrubin is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 1448 Old 12-13-2006, 05:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
TulsaCoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tulsa,Ok
Posts: 1,148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
LCD for me and I don't go to Hip Hop bars.
TulsaCoker is offline  
post #3 of 1448 Old 12-13-2006, 06:35 AM
Advanced Member
 
barrysb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 784
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

LCD Vs Plasma Flat Panels: and why do I see those black bars?

the eternal discussion: please limit these discussions to this sticky thread only

I may be in the minority, but most of the time, black bars do not bother me as long as I'm watching an undistorted image with very little overscan. However, I hit the format button to switch to a Zoom display every time I watch a 16 x 9 SD program formatted in a 4 x 3 frame. I dislike black bars on all 4 sides. It would be nice if manufacturers would make this an automatic switch.
Mark12547 likes this.
barrysb is offline  
post #4 of 1448 Old 12-13-2006, 11:31 AM
Senior Member
 
tommyy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Houston, TX USA
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
"LCD for me and I don't go to Hip Hop bars"

I much prefer Plasma, but then I'm not gay.

duh..........
tommyy2 is offline  
post #5 of 1448 Old 12-13-2006, 11:56 AM
Newbie
 
bumbledude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Anyone know what determines the color of the bars? ...cable company, set top box or tv?

I have Time Warner so cal with a Scientific Atlanta HD8300 and a Sony V2000 LCD and the bars are grey for regular SD and black for HD programming. The box appears to be somewhat crippled - I can only access certain set up features.

I would love to figure out a way to make the grey bars black.
bumbledude is offline  
post #6 of 1448 Old 12-13-2006, 12:06 PM
Member
 
emboyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It should be an option on the TV

Eric B.
Jax, FL
emboyd is offline  
post #7 of 1448 Old 12-13-2006, 03:14 PM
Senior Member
 
gspin2k1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I do some gaming (plan to buy a PS3 soon)...but most of the time use my tv to watch DVD movies, Sit-Coms..and the occasional HD sports program..but i'm more of a movie and sit-com with the girlfriend person than a gotta watch that football game person. I did buy an LCD, but now debating if I should switch to Plasma as I hear its better for movies and etc..just wanted to know what you all think.
~Gavin
p.s. I sit about 6-7.5 feet away...what'd be more appropriate 37 or 42". Any brands recommended for under $1400.
gspin2k1 is offline  
post #8 of 1448 Old 12-13-2006, 04:28 PM
Member
 
kcalvano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gspin2k1 View Post

I sit about 6-7.5 feet away...what'd be more appropriate 37 or 42". Any brands recommended for under $1400.

I'm kind of in the same boat as you are. Currently an LCD owner thinking of making the move to Plasma(just can't resist the great prices).
Check out this chart, http://hdguru.com/wp-content/uploads...ance_chart.pdf, might help you out a bit on your viewing distance question. Various forum sponsors are selling 42" Panny plasmas for a few c-notes less than your budget, with a great warranty to boot.
kcalvano is offline  
post #9 of 1448 Old 12-13-2006, 06:02 PM
Senior Member
 
Luap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 468
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If you sit close, I'd stay with LCD for the resolution. If you're the type that thinks you should be 15" away from a 42" set, go with plasma. As for the size question, get the buggest screen you can afford and that fits your room and spouse.
Luap is offline  
post #10 of 1448 Old 12-14-2006, 03:57 AM
Advanced Member
 
Frost147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa Canada
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Plasma - the only way to go IF you're not a gamer!

Ottawa Ontario Canada
Frost147 is offline  
post #11 of 1448 Old 12-14-2006, 04:43 AM
sir
Senior Member
 
sir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
How about RPTV?

There are some RPTV over 50' and I didn't see much of difference in bad or good sitting at 15 feet away.
sir is offline  
post #12 of 1448 Old 12-14-2006, 07:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kr8z1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Dutchtown, LA
Posts: 1,856
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir View Post

How about RPTV?

There are some RPTV over 50' and I didn't see much of difference in bad or good sitting at 15 feet away.

Sir, this isn't a RPTV thread. The mods were intending to limit discussion to LCD vs Plasma. I'm just trying to help keep this thread on track. Didn't you already pose this question in another post in this forum already?

Also, in case you weren't aware, there is a RPTV sub-forum here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=63
Kr8z1 is offline  
post #13 of 1448 Old 12-14-2006, 08:49 AM
 
instantpop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost147 View Post

Plasma - the only way to go IF you're not a gamer!

Or even IF you're a gamer, imo. I just made the switch from LCD to Plasma. Amazing...and my games look great.
instantpop is offline  
post #14 of 1448 Old 12-14-2006, 10:58 AM
 
RomanInvision's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,373
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by instantpop View Post

Or even IF you're a gamer, imo. I just made the switch from LCD to Plasma. Amazing...and my games look great.


Agree 100%. I get positive feedback on the Pioneer 5070HD whether the client watches TV or plays games it is definitely a winner compared to LCD.

Roman
Invision Displays - forum sponsor
RomanInvision is offline  
post #15 of 1448 Old 12-14-2006, 01:23 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
JimmyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Runco Island CA.
Posts: 4,605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Which technology (LCD/Plasma) have the lowest black level or put another way, can any of the current model LCD's or plasma's approach CRT black ?
JimmyR is offline  
post #16 of 1448 Old 12-14-2006, 01:42 PM
Newbie
 
carneyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am looking at 720p models in LCD and Plasma, and i'm not sure which one would be the best for me. I watch mostly standard definition cable and occasionally HD cable (ESPN and Discovery), I have an hd tuner so that isn't a problem, I play x-box 360 so i am some what worried about burn-in i'm looking to spend right around $1,500, and I was wondering if i should look more towards lcd or plasma and maybe which models would be the best for my price range, any advice is greatly appreciated.
carneyman is offline  
post #17 of 1448 Old 12-14-2006, 02:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
Frost147's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa Canada
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
jimmy - a plasma will give deeper blacks than an LCD. Just the nature of the current technology, but who's to say that'll still be applicable in another year (or generation of screen) or two?

A professionally calibrated plasma will give deeper blacks WITH more definition inside the black area - say, the lapels of a tuxedo would be more apparent.

At least that's been my experience with the 42" plasma Sammy.

Ottawa Ontario Canada
Frost147 is offline  
post #18 of 1448 Old 12-14-2006, 05:33 PM
Senior Member
 
hhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Des Moines Iowa
Posts: 441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Another question, with most programming still being in standard definition, which is better for the SD? We are looking to choose between plasma and lcd (42") for an everyday set and am afraid of getting something we don't like to watch unless it is in HD. I have read where some people don't like SD on LCD. Right now looking at the Panny commercial 42" and the Westinghouse 1080P 42" (not the 720P they have at Best Buy.)
hhawk is offline  
post #19 of 1448 Old 12-15-2006, 06:34 AM
Member
 
Jorakal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumbledude View Post

Anyone know what determines the color of the bars? ...cable company, set top box or tv?

I have Time Warner so cal with a Scientific Atlanta HD8300 and a Sony V2000 LCD and the bars are grey for regular SD and black for HD programming. The box appears to be somewhat crippled - I can only access certain set up features.

I would love to figure out a way to make the grey bars black.

You press the settings button twice. One of the options there lets you swich from light, to medium, to dark bars. I'm at work so don't remember the name of that settings.

The bars are grey on SD stations because the box puts them there according to the setting of light, medium, or dark. On HD channels it doesn't add anything. If you see black bars on the sides of HD channels, it is because they are transmitting an HD picture but have an SD pic in the middle of it. For example when I watch Good Morning America, they show the full HD when they show the Hosts, but they go to an SD pic for their stories and they put black bars or sometimes a graphic on the side.
Jorakal is offline  
post #20 of 1448 Old 12-15-2006, 03:19 PM
Member
 
SoulFish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
SD shows look fine on the 46" Sony XBR. The big processor makes "upping" the size go much more smoothly than most other LCDs. Thats one of the main reasons I went with the top level Sony.. processor speeds

- thx
SoulFish
SoulFish is offline  
post #21 of 1448 Old 12-15-2006, 05:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fistofsouth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Denton, Texas, Republic of
Posts: 1,232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by instantpop View Post

Or even IF you're a gamer, imo. I just made the switch from LCD to Plasma. Amazing...and my games look great.

I've debated LCD versus Plasma for over a year now and I just can't make myself take the risk involved with a Plasma. I like the darker blacks, faster response time and better SD viewing, but none of that matters if I need to constantly worry about IR. My family will use our next TV for everything; computer monitor, videogames, DVDs, HD and SD.

Sometimes I fall asleep watching ESPN, sometimes I come home after a 12 hour shift to find my kids asleep in front of the TV with a DVD menu that has been on the screen for several hours. Computer and videogame use will constitute at least 60% of our use on our next TV. When the top Plasma's (Panasonic/ Pioneer) have warnings against displaying still images (Computer, DVD Menu, ESPN logo and Videogames) more than 15% of the time I just can't justify the purchase.

Then there is the fact that Plasmas come in lower resolutions than LCDs. I know I know, most people notice black level and color saturation before they notice resolution, but a computer notices the resolution first. I'm also trying to figure out how a set with a resolution of 1024x768 qualifies as HD. I guess it qualifies because all the Plasma manufacturers got together and decided it qualifies. Still, last I checked 1280x720 is the minimum resolution for High Definition.

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin
fistofsouth is offline  
post #22 of 1448 Old 12-16-2006, 06:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Irunnoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,415
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm on the fence, too. I know my good brother Instantpop just switched over from a large screen LCD to a plasma. I'm loving everything about the plasma except that the burn in risk. I'm looking for a 40-45" TV that will be used about 80% of the time for gaming and about 19% of the time for HD-DVDs and Blu Ray and about 1% for SD satellite. I may opt for an HD Tivo soon, so that figure could change, but this TV will mostly be used for gaming.

I've currently got a 40XBR2 and the PQ is great - except for a clouding/backlight/mura effect that seems to be plaguing these TVs. The result? Clouding in dark areas of the screen (i.e. scenes in space, etc.).

I'm considering the Pioneer PDP-4271HD but I don't know how it might stand up to the large percentage of gaming I'd like to do. Sometimes I get lost in games for over four hours, so that's a consideration.

So, unlike an LCD, would I always have to baby a plasma? Would the amount of gaming and the time spent gaming at a single clip even be an issue beyond the 100 hour break in period for a plasma? Anybody here been using a plasma for gaming with an Xbox 360, PS3 for any real length of time? (Sorry, Instantpop, but I know you're currently in that break in period) I just don't want to wind up with a $2500.00 paperweight and I don't want to have unrealistic expectations for this TV if I buy it.

THANKS!

GT: irunnoft
Irunnoft is offline  
post #23 of 1448 Old 12-16-2006, 06:38 AM
Member
 
jpg4878's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Howdy,

I'm looking for suggestions as well. LCD or Plasma, I've gone back and forth on this for a while, the Pioneer models are seriously making me consider plasma.

However, if I consider my viewing habits, I'm thinking that LCD maybe the way to go.

Like a lot of people, I do have concern about burn-in, I am a little bit of a gamer, 2-4 hours a week, so I doubt I would get burn in from that. But, I am a little concerned about SD content (side bars) and DVD (bars at the top). I hate watching SD content with gray sidebars.

This will be my primary television for everything, not a true home theater setup, but a well lit living room. Who knows what the kids might do to it as well. From what I've gathered LCDs perform better in those type of situations?

basically, it boils down to this: pick a tv for me, i have to many choices.
jpg4878 is offline  
post #24 of 1448 Old 12-16-2006, 10:18 AM
Senior Member
 
soloist3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Panasonic Plasmas are so cheap these days (under $1300 for a 42" HD consumer model) that, unless you are a gamer or have kids (or habits, like leaving movies on pause or using the plasma extensively with a computer) which might repeatedtly put the Plasma at risk for IR/Burn-in I would definitely go for Plasma.

Btw, I was very concerned about the same thing that one of the members mentioned above, falling asleep with while watching a movie and having the DVD menu burn in my TV in (I was even worried about that with my CRT's). I do not know why DVD manufacturers have not incorporated a screen saver that is active BOTH DURING EXTENDED PAUSE SESSIONS AND DURING THE MENU (sorry for yelling but I think that is just stupid). Maybe they have since I have bought my last DVD player but my solution was to always buy Panasonic DVD players, they have a SLEEP timer that allows you to select either a certain time intervals or AUTO, which will turn the DVD player off 5 minutes after the movie ends (not sure why they did not just make it an auto-shut off after playback is completed but it is the best solution I have seen from any DVD player manufacturer yet).

As far as game/computer use, if you do it in moderation and use conservative contrast and brightness settings you probably would not have any problems, though understandably, the reason that many people want to buy an HDTV for games is to play them at contrast and brightness levels that really give the WOW factor, so with Plasma you would have to sacrifice that in your games for preventing burn-in.
soloist3 is offline  
post #25 of 1448 Old 12-16-2006, 10:46 AM
 
instantpop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Most of the newer plasmas have a "game" setting right out of the box that lowers the brightness and contrast ratio but at least on my Pioneer, it still looks fantastic. Yes, you get warnings in the manual of "do this" and "don't do that" but to be honest with you, those same warnings exist in other tv manuals as well, LCD and CRT. In fact, somebody just posted the warning that came with their LCD and it's almost the same as what's in the Pioneer manual.

I honestly think that if you are smart you won't have any issues playing games on a plasma. I've talked with several people who work in the television industry that have said "if you've never burned a CRT, you shouldn't burn a high level plasma." That's not to say that's the gospel, but it pushed me enough to sway to the other side of the fence. That, and all the posts by others here who game just as much as I do on a plasma and have never had any issues. PioManiac is one user that comes to mind.

To me, gaming on my plasma visually has more depth than my LCD did. Each of the newer technologies has its benefits and limitations. It's up to you to decide what you want to sacrifice and what you want to gain. It'll be a while before you don't have to do that.
instantpop is offline  
post #26 of 1448 Old 12-16-2006, 08:06 PM
Member
 
scottgriz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just came back from a visit to the local Tweeter which is running a great deal on a Panny 42" plasma. I am on the fence between a 32" LCD Panny (the LX600) and now the 42" Plasma. Price is very similar. It would seem that the 42" is the no brainer for the price proximity. My 2 biggest concerns is the life of the plasma. Will it fade to a level that I will disappointed with the picture in 4 or 5 years. Second, how much of an issue if the glossy screen for reflections. Last, how well does the SD picture compare and if I am going to be viewing 90% SD to begin with, is the plasma the right way to go?
I thought the LCD was my final choice, but seeing the competitive price on the larger plasma, I am now on the fence.
scottgriz is offline  
post #27 of 1448 Old 12-16-2006, 08:44 PM
 
Wdnuwndr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottgriz View Post

I just came back from a visit to the local Tweeter which is running a great deal on a Panny 42" plasma. I am on the fence between a 32" LCD Panny (the LX600) and now the 42" Plasma. Price is very similar. It would seem that the 42" is the no brainer for the price proximity. My 2 biggest concerns is the life of the plasma. Will it fade to a level that I will disappointed with the picture in 4 or 5 years. Second, how much of an issue if the glossy screen for reflections. Last, how well does the SD picture compare and if I am going to be viewing 90% SD to begin with, is the plasma the right way to go?
I thought the LCD was my final choice, but seeing the competitive price on the larger plasma, I am now on the fence.

I'm pretty much having the same questions.
I dont game & wont be computing. I watch sports, sports, a few action movies & did I say sports?
Narrowed it down to 50" plasma or 52" LCD. The plasma seems a no brainer on the price issue. Have a well lit room also but think I can control the light somewhat. I also worry about the plasma fading or becoming "yellow" as some post here.
What the heck is that anyways?
Wdnuwndr is offline  
post #28 of 1448 Old 12-17-2006, 07:42 AM
Senior Member
 
hhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Des Moines Iowa
Posts: 441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I have read where the current plasma sets are supposed to go 60,000 hours before dimming to the "half brightness" level. CRTs were supposed to go 25,000 hours, so if true, plasma should go even longer than the old fashioned tube sets.
hhawk is offline  
post #29 of 1448 Old 12-17-2006, 06:06 PM
Member
 
scottgriz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
One more factor that has me leaning toward the LCD is the power consumption. More than double (nearly triple) on the plasma. Over the life of the TV, the cost differential in the LCD would be paid for.

325w on the 37in Plasma

vs.

126w on the 32in LCD

Now I know there is a size difference here, but nearly 3x the power?
Do some quick calculations and you will find that over the life of the TV, the LCD wins out for price if you take power into consideration. If only Panny had a 37" or 42" LCD.
scottgriz is offline  
post #30 of 1448 Old 12-17-2006, 06:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
Bill C.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 884
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Wow. That's one hell of a power differential...now I'm wondering how much juice my Toshiba 34HD82 sucks up, let alone how much any potential replacement...

Right now, at least, I'm looking at 42" sets...since plasma apparently has the dreaded burn-in issue or at least the possibility of it, that kind of nudges me towards the LCD side. But, since I tend to watch a lot of SD material in the room this set would go in (at a distance of 10-11'), I'm half tempted to go whine at stupidly rich people until they throw last year's ED plasma sets at me.

...and I need your sweet love, Latina T-Mobile girl!

Bill C. is offline  
Reply Flat Panels General and OLED Technology

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off