Dolby Contrast & Dolby Vision - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 67 Old 10-01-2007, 09:13 PM - Thread Starter
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post #2 of 67 Old 10-02-2007, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by vtms View Post

It's interesting that Dolby is offering their local dimming technology in two flavors. I wonder what exactly distinguishes Dolby Contrast from Dolby Vision apart from higher brightness in Dolby Vision. Can't wait for more reports from CEATEC about this.

It's nice to see Dolby push advanced algorithms for LED LCDs. Most of the problems with 81 series could have been fixed with proper dimming algorithm. I hope that even 'Dolby Contrast' provides good greyscales and great colors. 'Dolby Vision' might offer more bit depth, dynamic range and ldr2hdr implementration.
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post #3 of 67 Old 10-02-2007, 03:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ____ View Post

It's nice to see Dolby push advanced algorithms for LED LCDs. Most of the problems with 81 series could have been fixed with proper dimming algorithm. I hope that even 'Dolby Contrast' provides good greyscales and great colors. 'Dolby Vision' might offer more bit depth, dynamic range and ldr2hdr implementration.

It's the first time that Dolby shows this technology after BrightSide acquisition this year and it'll be interesting to see how Dolby Contrast which is probably the "affordable" local dimming flavor compares to what Samsung did with the "affordable" 81 Series. I really hope the reports will indicate that Dolby's implementation is superior to what is currently available which will prove that imperfections in 81 Series should be attributed to Samsung's implementation rather than to local dimming technology itself.

A set with Dolby Vision should certainly be capable of displaying HDR sources and, like you, I can't wait to sample Dolby's ldr2hdr algorithm. Sounds like things are moving in the right direction. Now, let's hope that display manufactures license these technologies ASAP.
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post #4 of 67 Old 10-02-2007, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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post #5 of 67 Old 10-23-2007, 02:59 PM
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post #6 of 67 Old 11-29-2007, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.customretailer.net/story/...3181&var=story
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The 37-inch prototype, featuring Dolby Contrast and Dolby Vision, was demonstrated side by side with a competitive LCD TV. According to Bharath Rajagopalan, Dolby’s business line director/image technologies, Dolby Vision technology improves both dynamic range and contrast ratio by controlling individual LEDs, while Dolby Contrast technology controls the LEDs in clusters, so that very high contrast ratios are possible, if a panel vendor so desires.

Giorgio Corazza, president of SIM2 USA, said his company was aiming at introducing a 46-inch panel as its initial offering and would likely show the technology at the 2008 CES, with an actual product introduction targeted for sometime after the Fall 2008 CEDIA Expo.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA65065...?desc=topstory
http://www.reuters.com/article/press...007+BW20071129
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post #7 of 67 Old 11-30-2007, 02:20 AM
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So basically SIM2 is doing prototype Dolby Contrast&Vision displays in collabaration with Dolby. In addition SIM2 will provide Dolby manufacturing reference designs of these displays. This means that Dolby can license display manufacturers complete lcd designs that ascertain certain level of performance.
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post #8 of 67 Old 12-21-2007, 04:45 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/fea...nge-rover.html

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Gaven Wang, a senior product manager at Dolby, calls the [HDR] effect head-spinning. "It's almost real-life. Instead of looking at a flat picture, you feel like you’re watching something real through a window." (Yeah, we've heard the window analogy a million times before too, but still . . . cool!)

[John] Lowry is equally enthused. "The introduction of HDR sets is going to be a bigger step up from today's LCDs and plasmas than when we went from standard CRTs to HDTVs. The first time I saw that BrightSide screen — oh my heavens. It was startlingly good. The image just jumped out."

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Should you begin saving your pennies? Probably not, unless you’re hell-bent on being among the earliest adopters (expect Dolby’s first HDR sets to be pricey, though the company declined to give us exact figures). Richard MacKellar, BrightSide's former CEO, believes that TV manufacturers will stick to the tried and true business model of introducing a marginally better product once or twice annually.

“They could leap to an HDR display today,” says MacKellar, "but they will make more profit by gradually improving the dynamic range by a few percent each year. In ten years the dynamic range will be vastly better than it is today, and I believe screens will be able to compete with sunlight." And all the while, prices will inch down.

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post #9 of 67 Old 01-05-2008, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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post #10 of 67 Old 01-09-2008, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Video
http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/ne...nveilled.phtml
http://www.trustedreviews.com/tvs/ne...htside-Tech/p1
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2245940,00.asp
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post #11 of 67 Old 03-31-2008, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.businesswire.com/portal/s...33&newsLang=en
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NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dolby Laboratories, Inc. and SIM2 Multimedia are proud to showcase a new prototype high-dynamic-range (HDR)–enabled LCD flat-screen display using Dolby’s new light emitting diodes (LED) local dimming technology.

Dolby’s HDR technologies utilize the capabilities of LED-based backlight units (BLUs) to provide outstanding contrast combined with crisp brightness to deliver picture quality that matches real-world visual perception of depth, detail, and color.

“This prototype is a stunning example of what Dolby’s HDR technologies can bring to the LCD market,” said Bharath Rajagopalan, Senior Marketing Manager, HDR, Dolby Laboratories. “We welcome the opportunity to showcase our innovative technology that delivers a dramatic improvement to LCD displays.”

As part of the collaboration effort, SIM2 designed and developed the BLU, which drives the electronics of the LCD display plus the BLU and BLU thermal management system. In addition to the prototype development, SIM2 will provide Dolby with manufacturing reference designs.

“This prototype exemplifies SIM2’s ability to incorporate breakthrough technology into its electronics and optical design, providing—once again—a stunning display that will be a key reference for next-generation LCD displays,” said Domenico Toffoli, Director, Professional Systems Business Unit, SIM2. “We are proud to be the first to support the development of a technology of this stature.”

The prototype is a 46-inch LCD with Dolby’s HDR LED backlight technology:

* 1,838 LEDs
* LCD panel providing a resolution of 1920 × 1080, fitting a native 16:9 aspect ratio
* Brightness: greater than 4,000 cd/m2
* Contrast ratio: Infinite! Full On/Full Off
* Step size: 16 bits of luminance
* Luminance uniformity: more than 95% through the LCD panel

Incorporated into the design is a Xilinx Virtex™ field programmable gate arrays (FPGAs) chipset, recently approved by Dolby for HDR innovations. The Xilinx FPGA chipset enables the implementation of Dolby’s complex high-dynamic-range algorithms in the SIM2 display.

This prototype sports a contemporary and stylish design, befitting the most diverse of home interiors; it is a new masterpiece by the award-winning designer Giorgio Revoldini.

Dolby and SIM2 are showcasing the prototype in New York City today and will be sharing its latest LCD display innovation in cities around the world.

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post #12 of 67 Old 04-01-2008, 07:45 AM
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Dang, you're a quick one vtms. I was just about to post that update here.

That design is quite ugly, but I'm still looking forward to the technology. I'm hoping we can get some critical views on how this prototype makes use of the tech.

Though I'm actually surprised they went all the way with this prototype, I know that Dolby Vision only requires about 2,500 cd/m2 - but I'm glad they went for the full 4,000.
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post #13 of 67 Old 04-01-2008, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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http://displaydaily.com/2008/04/02/d...46-hdr-lcd-tv/
http://www.hometheatermag.com/news/040108dolby/
http://eetimes.com/news/latest/showA...leID=207000950
http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/do...dtv-1485.shtml
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6546557.html
http://dvice.com/archives/2008/04/need_more_contr.php

Highlights:
- 1838 independently controlled zones (1 LED = 1 zone) [to put that into perspective, Samsung 81 has only 64 and upcoming LG75 has 128 zones]
- All white LEDs now (so only 92% NTSC), RGB LEDs later.
- 46" is probably the smallest size that will be sold.
- The design will change
- "In a demo reminiscent of the Pioneer Kuro concept at CES, SIM2's new LCD prototype produced inky blacks which made objects seem to float in space"
- Power consumption: 2000W (ouch!)
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post #14 of 67 Old 04-01-2008, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonin View Post

Dang, you're a quick one vtms. I was just about to post that update here.

That design is quite ugly, but I'm still looking forward to the technology. I'm hoping we can get some critical views on how this prototype makes use of the tech.

Though I'm actually surprised they went all the way with this prototype, I know that Dolby Vision only requires about 2,500 cd/m2 - but I'm glad they went for the full 4,000.

Not sure why they decided to go that high on the brightness. You're right, the bezel looks ugly but that will most likely change. I'm curious how much these are going to cost; hopefully much less than $50K for the previous 37" Brightside model. If it's under $10K, then maybe someone will buy it.
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post #15 of 67 Old 04-01-2008, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtms View Post

Not sure why they decided to go that high on the brightness. You're right, the bezel looks ugly but that will most likely change. I'm curious how much these are going to cost; hopefully much less than $50K for the previous 37" Brightside model. If it's under $10K, then maybe someone will buy it.

If it's over $15000 and still uses white LEDs then they're crazy.
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post #16 of 67 Old 04-02-2008, 01:15 AM
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It's a prototype so it doesn't have a price and it is designed to demonstrate the technology, not impress with a designer bezel. It makes sense to introduce the technology with white LEDs. If they added tri-color LEDs to the picture that might significantly increase the price and complexity. Once the technology has a foothold, tri-color LEDs or more LEDs will be the next logical step along with lowering power and cooling requirements.
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post #17 of 67 Old 04-02-2008, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by GTVic View Post

Once the technology has a foothold, tri-color LEDs or more LEDs will be the next logical step along with lowering power and cooling requirements.

Well that's basically exactly what Dolby have said on the matter. The only fly in their ointment is that Sony is coming out with RGB LED based units this year, so they won't be able to claim complete technological superiority.
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post #18 of 67 Old 04-02-2008, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonin View Post

Dang, you're a quick one vtms. I was just about to post that update here.

That design is quite ugly, but I'm still looking forward to the technology. I'm hoping we can get some critical views on how this prototype makes use of the tech.

Though I'm actually surprised they went all the way with this prototype, I know that Dolby Vision only requires about 2,500 cd/m2 - but I'm glad they went for the full 4,000.

Having seen it, I think it was overkill (the brightness that is). There were people literally holding their hands up to shield their eyes at times.

And while the demo was "reminiscent" of the Kuro demo, this is not to say that it was as impressive as the Kuro concept plasma overall. The blacks were much better (than standard LCD) and uniformity was improved over traditional LCDs, but 92% NTSC gamut does leave you with under-saturated colors. And there was still some motion smear.

It's a huge step forward though, and here's hoping they're not the only ones to implement HDR.

Later,

-CB

Chris Boylan
Home Theater Editor
Big Picture Big Sound
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post #19 of 67 Old 11-28-2008, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2008/11...or-early-2009/
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Dolby has been working with Italian projector company Sim2 on a prototype TV that uses individual LEDs behind the screen, rather than a uniform CCFL panel to give massive contrast ratios on screen at the same time (50,000:1), but Dolby's director of sales for Europe and the Middle East, Andy Dowell, told us a consumer version will be out by Q1 2009″ - before April, folks.

Dowell couldn't go into any further details, other than to proudly boast that it'll be a very sexy product. Sim2 specialises in high end stuff, so don't expect an affordable price tag just yet, though Dowell did say he expected more mainstream brands coming on soon.

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post #20 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
New SIM2 Solar Series With Dolby Vision LED Backlight Technology Scheduled to Be Available Q2 2009

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands, Feb 03, 2009 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- SIM2 Multimedia and Dolby Laboratories, Inc. are proud to unveil the latest in high-dynamic-range (HDR)-enabled LCD flat-screen display technology featuring Dolby(R) Vision during the 2009 Integrated Systems Europe (ISE) Show, February 3-5 in Amsterdam. SIM2 plans to make the new SIM2 Solar Series available in the second quarter of calendar 2009.

SIM2's Solar Series includes a 47-inch LCD display utilizing Dolby Vision technology. Dolby Vision features a proprietary algorithm that manages LEDs behind the liquid crystal panel. Each LED is controlled individually in concert with the image on display. By selectively turning off the backlight behind black areas in scenes, Dolby Vision allows those areas to become truly black. Dolby Vision also has the ability to selectively brighten the backlight behind bright areas, allowing them to truly radiate. SIM2's Solar Series delivers outstanding contrast combined with crisp brightness for a picture quality that matches real-world visual perception of depth, detail, and color.

http://investor.dolby.com/releasedet...leaseID=363298
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post #21 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Nobody will be able to afford it, but at least it will give consumers an idea about how wide is a quality gap between current, half-baked LED LCDs with LD and the real deal IMLED HDR LCD.
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post #22 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 03:58 PM
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Two comments:

1. Dial that beast down to 400 nits and it won't look noticeably better than the current Sony/Samsung in virtually any viewing condition.

2. Black bezel inside black bezel inside faux-silver bezel with visible(!) seams - that is one unattractive display!

3. The Engadget commentator had it about right - at full brightness that display will be like staring at a 200W light bulb. Hopefully they have good lawyers to write the warning labels.

Ok, I guess that was three comments.
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post #23 of 67 Old 02-03-2009, 05:01 PM
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I'm quietly curious how much it's going to cost. Unfortunately the small size and use of white LEDs are already a couple of black marks against it before it even gets out of the gate.
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post #24 of 67 Old 02-04-2009, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Humble Pie View Post

1. Dial that beast down to 400 nits and it won't look noticeably better than the current Sony/Samsung in virtually any viewing condition.

SIM2 will still have large static contrast advantage because of ~2000 dimming zones. S-IPS panel should also provide better viewing angles. SIM2 promises also almost perfect brightness uniformity.
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post #25 of 67 Old 02-05-2009, 03:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Humble Pie View Post

Two comments:

1. Dial that beast down to 400 nits and it won't look noticeably better than the current Sony/Samsung in virtually any viewing condition.

Dial it down to zero and it will be identical. Not a great argument
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post #26 of 67 Old 02-05-2009, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by GTVic View Post

Dial it down to zero and it will be identical. Not a great argument

The black and white ends are irrelivant anyway, it's the stuff in between that makes the picture. Samsung have 6 bit (64 step) backlight control and the Sim2 has 16 bit (65,536 step) control. That, combined with the IMLEDs and superior video processor will make a difference.

But so will the small size, white LEDs and high price. If the Sim2 comes in at more than the 65XS1 does, then I really don't see the market embracing it with open arms.
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post #27 of 67 Old 02-05-2009, 07:04 AM
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The black and white ends are irrelivant anyway, it's the stuff in between that makes the picture.

That's funny. I just read a paper by dolby labs that suggests this very thing. They want to redefine what dynamic range is. They want to change it from a max/min ratio to "Number of distinguishable gray levels" which is a count of visible luminence steps in between the min max.

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post #28 of 67 Old 02-05-2009, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpbandaid View Post

SIM2 will still have large static contrast advantage because of ~2000 dimming zones. S-IPS panel should also provide better viewing angles. SIM2 promises also almost perfect brightness uniformity.

The extra dimming zones sure do make a difference with regards to halo artifacts. However, what really makes the difference IMO is the use of pixel compensation and LED compensation. This should somewhat stabalize (but not perfect) the floating blacks/shifting contrast associated with local dimming and also greatly help with the black crush associated with local dimming.

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post #29 of 67 Old 02-05-2009, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

That's funny. I just read a paper by dolby labs that suggests this very thing. They want to redefine what dynamic range is. They want to change it from a max/min ratio to "Number of distinguishable gray levels" which is a count of visible luminence steps in between the min max.

I think it would be a fantastic achievement if they did that. I got my first computer display with 8 bit video in 1991 and here we are in 2009 still with 8 bit video, it blows my mind. Then again, we still have 16 bit audio, too.
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post #30 of 67 Old 02-05-2009, 10:56 AM
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The range of possible modulation in the backlight is directly proportional to the peak brightness - the dimmer or more "standard" you set the peak, the less it can spatially modulate the backlight unless severe compromises in image quality are accepted (eg, extreme intra-frame floating whites). This is a function of the optics and independent of the number of individually controllable zones.

At "standard" brightnesses, the halos should be more or less the same as with the latest Sony/Samsung models - the increase in control density is offset by the increase in effective cluster size necessary to get light where it needs to go. At high brightness the halos won't matter much, of course, as you're more or less intentionally blinding your eye.

The display will almost certainly look good, as do the current Sony/Sammies, with the added kicker of high brightness. Two-thumbs-up of greatness on the brightness, as it should look terrific in ambient/daylight-like viewing conditions.

XRox - Sony, Samsung and Sharp all have published patents on per-pixel LCD compensation with backlights of this kind, and there is no reason to believe their current offerings don't implement the technology.
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