Which produces more heat, CRT or plasma TV's? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 163 Old 07-01-2009, 08:26 PM
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I never claimed btu is the equivalent of watts. I claimed btu/hr was analogous to watts. They [btu/hr and watts] are both units of power, thus there is a direct correlation via conversion constant.

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post #92 of 163 Old 07-04-2009, 10:11 PM
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:d
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. Hanky View Post

these are the basic concepts that tie together the wattage of the device with room size and the btu/hr (which is really just the english units equivalent of "watts")

:d

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post #93 of 163 Old 07-06-2009, 09:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Can anyone tell me please which produces more heat, CRT or plasma TV's?
Thank you.

All I can say is that my Kuro is a heater.
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post #94 of 163 Old 07-06-2009, 10:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

All I can say is that my Kuro is a heater.

It's about time you got here.

Now how much heat does it produce and what effect does it have on your AC?
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post #95 of 163 Old 07-06-2009, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdog03 View Post

Bottom line is to much of a deal is being made out of "heat" on these TVs. They are TVs not heaters and the amount is insignificant over all whether it's twice, 3 times or more. All I can go on is my own real experience and none of my TVs (two Samsung LCDs and one Pioneer plasma) put out any amount of heat that isn't easily dissipated into the room and thus having no effect on over all temperature. If your experience is different then so be it.

my lg 42" will cook ya right out of my 13x11 bedroom if the window and door is closed and its still somewhat uncomfortable after a couple hours. In winter it heats the room nicely even once the furnace is down for the night and up here its -30 on a real regular basis. Test with heat temp gun (snap-on) from work says 105f once its up to running temp, 100 on the panel and you can feel it when you walk by. My killawatt says it runs between 270-330 watts. If you use electricity its dissapated in the form of heat.
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post #96 of 163 Old 07-07-2009, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socketman View Post

my lg 42" will cook ya right out of my 13x11 bedroom if the window and door is closed and its still somewhat uncomfortable after a couple hours. In winter it heats the room nicely even once the furnace is down for the night and up here its -30 on a real regular basis. Test with heat temp gun (snap-on) from work says 105f once its up to running temp, 100 on the panel and you can feel it when you walk by. My killawatt says it runs between 270-330 watts. If you use electricity its dissapated in the form of heat.

Wow thats alot of heat.

These are just my opinions.
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post #97 of 163 Old 07-07-2009, 10:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Socketman View Post

my lg 42" will cook ya right out of my 13x11 bedroom if the window and door is closed and its still somewhat uncomfortable after a couple hours. In winter it heats the room nicely even once the furnace is down for the night and up here its -30 on a real regular basis. Test with heat temp gun (snap-on) from work says 105f once its up to running temp, 100 on the panel and you can feel it when you walk by. My killawatt says it runs between 270-330 watts. If you use electricity its dissapated in the form of heat.

lol, I think I'll pick up a couple LG's for the winter time to use as multi purpose space heaters. I know my sons room can get warm as he has a 40" Samsung but also a complete AV system along with a cable box and gaming system in a 14x10 room with little circulation with the door closed.
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post #98 of 163 Old 07-07-2009, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socketman View Post

my lg 42" will cook ya right out of my 13x11 bedroom if the window and door is closed and its still somewhat uncomfortable after a couple hours. In winter it heats the room nicely even once the furnace is down for the night and up here its -30 on a real regular basis. Test with heat temp gun (snap-on) from work says 105f once its up to running temp, 100 on the panel and you can feel it when you walk by. My killawatt says it runs between 270-330 watts. If you use electricity its dissapated in the form of heat.

920.7-1125.3 btu/h!!! You call that a heater?!

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post #99 of 163 Old 07-08-2009, 12:46 AM
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This thread is getting even more ridiculous over time.
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post #100 of 163 Old 07-08-2009, 07:51 PM
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You can say that again Davii!!! Mark should be along to close it any time now.

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post #101 of 163 Old 07-10-2009, 05:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdog03 View Post

It's about time you got here.

Now how much heat does it produce and what effect does it have on your AC?

I don't know, I haven't measure it like Socketman. However, I do know that its a flame thrower.

Plasma TV's continue to be inefficient and enviornmentally unfriendly and that includes the Kuro.

In order to have deep blacks, I got to have furnance sitting in my living room, I guess that's the trade off.
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post #102 of 163 Old 07-10-2009, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I don't know, I haven't measure it like Socketman. However, I do know that its a flame thrower.

Plasma TV's continue to be inefficient and enviornmentally unfriendly and that includes the Kuro.

In order to have deep blacks, I got to have furnance sitting in my living room, I guess that's the trade off.

Well you could always lower your room temperature by not exhaling all your hot air

This whole Plasma vs LCD vs Tube TV heat issue is not much of an issue in the real world. My refrigerator puts out more heat than any of my TVs ever did.

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post #103 of 163 Old 07-10-2009, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Can anyone tell me please which produces more heat, CRT or plasma TV's?
Thank you.

Nearly 100% of all power used by the TV is converted to heat.

Just measure the power consumed and compare. I have.

eg, my Panny 50"850 plasma typically uses 200 - 300W, which is less than my brother's new Sony LCD.

In night mode, my 50"Panny plasma uses typically <200W.

Plasmas power consumed (heat) varies with picture brightness. Most LCDs ever made have a constant brightness backlight sittng behind the Liquid Crystal Panel, hence constant power consumed.

BTW, my 16 year old 27" Panny CRT typically used only 70 - 100W
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post #104 of 163 Old 07-11-2009, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I don't know, I haven't measure it like Socketman. However, I do know that its a flame thrower.

Plasma TV's continue to be inefficient and enviornmentally unfriendly and that includes the Kuro.

In order to have deep blacks, I got to have furnance sitting in my living room, I guess that's the trade off.

Well it seems like any time a statement like this gets made people stand up and scream they want the proof. So lets see and hear it please.

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post #105 of 163 Old 07-11-2009, 03:11 PM
 
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The basic issue comes down to being consistent. If one assembles a home theater system without taking heat loading (and noise) into consideration or you may learn (the hard way) to be a bit more discriminating the next time around. If fact that is what life is all about? Advertisers love inexperienced consumers because they are so malleable.

With the American standard-of-living steadily going downhill (read smaller homes and rooms), it's wise to understand the system you are building before purchase or assembly.

For a bedroom TV, do you want to put a large heat generator and try to sleep when the room has become too hot? For myself, personal comfort is more important than the cost. I mean its 105 outside and the sun has baked the walls and roof. The air conditioner has a hard enough time as is...

Now let's take the A/V controller, amplifier(8+ channels), big screen TV and disc player plus cable box, modem and power conditioner.
Some brands of A/V controllers/receivers get very hot, with Onkyo coming to mind. They can uncomfortable to touch. Or Krell class A amplifiers.

Instead of too much heat making the room become uncomfortable as you watch the movie, why not make alternative choices?
I'd buy the much cooler running Denon over Onyko as they are superior in every way, including sound quality, comfort and power bills.

The fact is a system which make people uncomfortable will be used less often, except if you live in Alaska. Trust me on this one.
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post #106 of 163 Old 07-11-2009, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post


Some brands of A/V controllers/receivers get very hot, with Onkyo coming to mind. They can uncomfortable to touch. Or Krell class A amplifiers.

Instead of too much heat making the room become uncomfortable as you watch the movie, why not make alternative choices?
I'd buy the much cooler running Denon over Onyko as they are superior in every way, including sound quality, comfort and power bills.

If you've followed this thread the point has been that power wattage will put out the same amount heat if wattage is equal for for all devices. And yes I remember the threads in the AVR section where Onkyo's ran so hot that some where afraid they would catch fire.

Just like here we have Auditor saying his plasma is a flame thrower. Then comes the plasma proponents saying he's exaggerating (probably somewhere in between).

I know my AVR runs very cool. So how do you explain a Onkyo AVR that has been said they run hot and my Yamaha that runs cool when they put out the same wattage?

Maybe we don't know the whole story why plasma runs hot? I don't know why? My impression has been this when I walk down the ailes of a B&M.

These are just my opinions.
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post #107 of 163 Old 07-11-2009, 08:24 PM
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Unfortunately if you really want to know 1 watt is 3.41 btu/h period. No magic, no mystic heat generator, just what it is. If a piece of equipment concentrates most of its power consumption in one area and does not remove it to another area effectivly it will get hot, there is no way around it. Now take something that is efficient at removing the heat to other areas of the equipment and then to the surrounding are it will not seem as hot. However if they are using the same watts they will still be putting out the same amount of heat. I don't care if it is Onkyo, Denon, LCD, Plasma, Amp A, or Amp B. Why is it that people keep rejecting the science behind the "issue" and continue to spit out what they FEEL to be true. Of course if you are moving a total of 2000 watts of power into your room from your equipment and the room is small you will probably feel some heat being generated.

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post #108 of 163 Old 07-11-2009, 08:26 PM
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I haven't read through both threads yet but I wonder if the OP question is looking for more of a perceptual answer rather than a thermodynamics lesson based on ideal systems. Just like oldcband suggest, two components consuming the same wattage can "feel" much different regarding heat output. This is obviously related to the heat transfer efficiency to the person. And IMO a display with a large component of radiative heat transfer will be percieved to be the "hot" display.

And even further, a display that generates a large portion of heat on the panel surface (eg - plasma) may "feel" hotter than a display that generates most of the heat deep internally in the panel which may "feel" cooler.

As always, perception is more important than many realize.

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post #109 of 163 Old 07-11-2009, 08:35 PM
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While perception is important to people there is a place for them to learn how they are wrong. Learning a bit about how heat works and how the perceived heat out put is not necessarily what is actually being out put can be a real eye opener. So regardless of the OP's intent on which one feels warmer now they can over look the perceived heat and see what the actual heat output is. The whole point of a "science" forum. Still amazing how many people still will argue what they feel over what is truly there.

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post #110 of 163 Old 07-11-2009, 09:10 PM
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I should have said the OP may be looking for a scientific answer to his perception (why it "feels" hot) rather than why does it "produce" more heat. Obviously, the answers would be very different. A few reasons are in my previous post.

Here is an analogy. What would "feel" hotter?

1 - touching 100W light bulb directly

2 - touching a cardboard box containing a 100W light bulb

Hopefully you can see the weak analogy between LCD and Plasma

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post #111 of 163 Old 07-12-2009, 07:27 AM
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The only science that is exact is math. Take global warming and you can see that "science" is hardly exact from scientist to scientist.

Perception is everything. If I was to sell any kind of product I'd want to know what paying customers are going to think about what I'm selling.

I could be hard headed and tell my customers look at the the math and your an idiot to buy anything from my competitor.

How well would that work for you?

PERCEPTION IS EVERYTHING!

These are just my opinions.
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post #112 of 163 Old 07-12-2009, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

The only science that is exact is math. Take global warming and you can see that "science" is hardly exact from scientist to scientist.

Perception is everything. If I was to sell any kind of product I'd want to know what paying customers are going to think about what I'm selling.

I could be hard headed and tell my customers look at the the math and your an idiot to buy anything from my competitor.

How well would that work for you?

PERCEPTION IS EVERYTHING!

That's a load of bunk! But then, I forget that it's coming from the "just trust my eyes" philosophy of video tech. Now, we're into the "whatever it feels like". No thank you...and BTW: Global Warming is overwhelmingly accepted throughout the world's leading scientists. There's no longer a debate on this fact except in the US Senate.
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post #113 of 163 Old 07-12-2009, 11:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

The only science that is exact is math. Take global warming and you can see that "science" is hardly exact from scientist to scientist.

Perception is everything. If I was to sell any kind of product I'd want to know what paying customers are going to think about what I'm selling.

I could be hard headed and tell my customers look at the the math and your an idiot to buy anything from my competitor.

How well would that work for you?

PERCEPTION IS EVERYTHING!

Perception often fools a person into thinking one way where in reality it's completely different. Take for example a blu ray player. A few people perceive an SD DVD on an upconverting player as high of quality as a blu ray movie being played. For those people a lesser quality TV set would likely suit them fine while those of us that can see and realize the benefit of a blu ray movie will want the best set they can afford to take advantage of the better quality picture available.
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post #114 of 163 Old 07-12-2009, 03:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdog03 View Post

Perception often fools a person into thinking one way where in reality it's completely different. Take for example a blu ray player. A few people perceive an SD DVD on an upconverting player as high of quality as a blu ray movie being played. For those people a lesser quality TV set would likely suit them fine while those of us that can see and realize the benefit of a blu ray movie will want the best set they can afford to take advantage of the better quality picture available.

Truth be told, some blu rays are not that great, sometimes hardly noticeable from a SD DVD. Anyone who owns or rents blu rays can attest to that. If you're watching a blu ray on small screen TV vs. DVD on a small screen TV it gets even harder to tell the difference.
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post #115 of 163 Old 07-12-2009, 03:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post

That's a load of bunk! But then, I forget that it's coming from the "just trust my eyes" philosophy of video tech. Now, we're into the "whatever it feels like". No thank you...and BTW: Global Warming is overwhelmingly accepted throughout the world's leading scientists. There's no longer a debate on this fact except in the US Senate.

What about the " professional" reviewer crowd.
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post #116 of 163 Old 07-12-2009, 03:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Truth be told, some blu rays are not that great, sometimes hardly noticeable from a SD DVD. Anyone who owns or rents blu rays can attest to that. If you're watching a blu ray on small screen TV vs. DVD on a small screen TV it gets even harder to tell the difference.

so we're speaking in the minority rather than the majority now? A Blu Ray of the same movie will most often look better if not always. And why would you want the higher resolution of a blu ray player on a small TV? Anything 32" and above from a reasonable distance in more cases than not look better and this is an AV forum where generally most people have at least one 40" or bigger set in their home.
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post #117 of 163 Old 07-12-2009, 06:29 PM
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Watts used vs heat is not analoguos. Take an incandescent light bulb for instance, only 2.5% of the wattage used is turned into light , the rest is heat.
Plasma's are very inefficient though getting better.,and i am sure they are not all created equal. Although i have not tested a lcd yet,and i will , i believe the fact they are backlit would make them produce less heat and at a more consistent rate (less power flutuatuion) . Other things going on inside a flatpanel include powersupplies and their efficiency and all the heat that comes off ic's they can also get hot. I dont know which produces more heat but i am goin to have my freind with a sharp measure his tv for reference. I think that plasma does create more heat ,i shall see. for refernce i will include a web page that shows how much heat different light bulbs put out using the same amount of electricity.

http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/html/wa...at-output.html

let the flames begin
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post #118 of 163 Old 07-12-2009, 06:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Socketman View Post

Watts used vs heat is not analoguos. Take an incandescent light bulb for instance, only 2.5% of the wattage used is turned into light , the rest is heat.
Plasma's are very inefficient though getting better.,and i am sure they are not all created equal. Although i have not tested a lcd yet,and i will , i believe the fact they are backlit would make them produce less heat and at a more consistent rate (less power flutuatuion) . Other things going on inside a flatpanel include powersupplies and their efficiency and all the heat that comes off ic's they can also get hot. I dont know which produces more heat but i am goin to have my freind with a sharp measure his tv for reference. I think that plasma does create more heat ,i shall see. for refernce i will include a web page that shows how much heat different light bulbs put out using the same amount of electricity.

http://www.reptileuvinfo.com/html/wa...at-output.html

let the flames begin

I don't think anyone is arguing which produces more heat as the issue seems to be, is it really an issue and in my book it's marginal and hardly an issue as to which one I would choose. Guys like auditor55 make sensationalized claims like his is a "flame throwe"r or it's a "heater" are so far fetched that it shows an obvious bias and lack of credibility in these discussions.
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post #119 of 163 Old 07-12-2009, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdog03 View Post

I don't think anyone is arguing which produces more heat as the issue seems to be, is it really an issue and in my book it's marginal and hardly an issue as to which one I would choose.

If you believe this then your ignoring "science".

Watts law is math.

One watt equals an amount of heat out. No matter what if its LCD or plasma should be the same.

BTW: socketman I want to hear more.

These are just my opinions.
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post #120 of 163 Old 07-12-2009, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajieboy View Post

That's a load of bunk! But then, I forget that it's coming from the "just trust my eyes" philosophy of video tech.

I quoted Grucho Marx in another thread.

"Who are you going to believe me or you own eyes".

These are just my opinions.
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