Replacing 65" Mitsu Diamond RPTV need advice - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 10-18-2008, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone,

I am looking to replace my current RPTV with a FP of some sort. I want to stay in same size range. The room is rather bright so I might need to stay with an LCD but will prolly put up light blocking drapes eventually to control room lighting so a plasma is not out of the question.

I am an avid Xbox360 gamer and this tv will be used 60% for that. Quality is of utmost importance all around, however.

Any advice is appreciated. I tend to suffer from analysis paralysis but we are talking about a big investment here.

thanks!!!
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post #2 of 25 Old 10-18-2008, 03:24 PM
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58pz800u or Pio 6020
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post #3 of 25 Old 10-22-2008, 06:50 PM
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I just moved my Mitsubishi Diamond 65711 to the basement and, after a lot of research, got a Panasonic TH-65PZ850U for the den. No regrets. Compare that to the Pioneer 6020 or 151 and decide what you like. I could not see enough of an advantage with the 60 Pioneer to lose the size.
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post #4 of 25 Old 10-23-2008, 08:20 PM
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You're going to be disappointed in comparison to the Mitsu. You have removed the protective screen on your set?
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post #5 of 25 Old 10-24-2008, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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What are u referring to Bill? If it's the glossy panel, no i have that in place.

Why am i going to be dissapointed if I go to a flat panel set?

thanks

Fred
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post #6 of 25 Old 10-25-2008, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p0kernut777 View Post

What are u referring to Bill? If it's the glossy panel, no i have that in place.

Why am i going to be dissapointed if I go to a flat panel set?

thanks

Fred

Bill,

I would also be interested in more info on your comment. I have a 65 inch Mits RPTV that is in need of repair and I am most likely going to replace it with a FP and have assumed that the FP would be an upgrade from my old RPTV.

Mike
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post #7 of 25 Old 10-25-2008, 01:35 PM
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Well I don't have any Mits, but I do have Samsung Plasma and Sony XBR LCD and Samsung DLP all operating in the same house

I like my DLP the best of all 3.

Maybe that is the point he was making.

Perry

Perry Kincy
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post #8 of 25 Old 10-26-2008, 07:09 AM
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Perry,

What is the reason you like it best? Maybe I should just put another $400 in repairs in my Mits if I won't be getting the upgrade I expect.

Mike
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post #9 of 25 Old 10-26-2008, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p0kernut777 View Post

What are u referring to Bill? If it's the glossy panel, no i have that in place.

Why am i going to be dissapointed if I go to a flat panel set?

thanks

Fred

The Mitsubishi probably has a "Diamond Screen" on it which causes bigtime "glare" on this magnificent RPTV.
If your Mitsubishi RPTV is okay, remove the front Diamond Screen Shield and have it calibrated.
I believe the 65" has 9" guns.
The dissapointment will be the Picture Quality of your RPTV vs a plasma or LCD.
A properly calibrated CRT RPTV delivers IMO the best picture you can have.
I have a Mitsubishi 55" CRT RPTV professionally calibrated by Craig Rounds.
Nothing compares in the plasma,LCD televisions with the exception of the pioneer Kurio "maybe".
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post #10 of 25 Old 10-27-2008, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackman1 View Post

The Mitsubishi probably has a "Diamond Screen" on it which causes bigtime "glare" on this magnificent RPTV.
If your Mitsubishi RPTV is okay, remove the front Diamond Screen Shield and have it calibrated.
I believe the 65" has 9" guns.
The dissapointment will be the Picture Quality of your RPTV vs a plasma or LCD.
A properly calibrated CRT RPTV delivers IMO the best picture you can have.
I have a Mitsubishi 55" CRT RPTV professionally calibrated by Craig Rounds.
Nothing compares in the plasma,LCD televisions with the exception of the pioneer Kurio "maybe".

My Panasonic plasma is far superior OVERALL to my old Hitachi 46" RPCRT. Brighter, less glare, uniform picture quality on all areas of the screen and I don't have to sit dead center in front of the TV to get a decent picture. The focus and brightness on my Hitachi was not consistant, the screen was not all that flat, it crushed blacks and if I stood up I couldn't see a dang thing. Now this wasn't a Mitsubishi, but it was a pretty highly rated TV when I bought it. Oh, did I mention it got burn-in after only two years?

Now, my RPCRT was not calibrated but then again neither is my plasma. In uncalibrated form, my plasma PQ blows away the RP in all areas except red color accuracy, which is an issue with my particular plasma (pz80) and not a problem with most flat panels.

There are certain aspects of RPCRTs can be superior, but most people are much happier with modern flat panels. I certainly am.

My point is if the OP is happy with the flat panels he sees in the stores, he should be happy at home and probably won't miss his RPCRT one bit. The specific PQ advantages on properly calibrated sets isn't enough to offset the overall disadvantages IMO. Don't be scared off, make your own judgement.
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post #11 of 25 Old 10-27-2008, 09:49 AM
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I have a hd1000u projector, a vizio 1080p 42" LCD, and an old school ws65905 Diamond series crt.

All have been professionally calibrated by one of the best in the industry (CraigR from theSPot). My diamond series is 8 or 9 years old. Keep in mind that I had it calibrated shortly after purchasing it and it has been maintained at a very high level.

CraigR even said that it was in the best shape he had seen for an old tv. The picture on my Mitsu 65" is superior to all my other sets, especially the blacks. You can not beat the picture quality on a properly calibrated RPTV with big guns...

Now, if you are the type of person that doesn't believe in calibrating and achieving maximum picture quality, you may not notice.

I think this is what Bill meant. BTW, i had the protective shield off for many years (prior to the existence of my first born child). This makes all the difference with the glare issue - its not existent with the protective screen removed.

Thanks.
- Jay
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post #12 of 25 Old 10-27-2008, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plmn View Post

My Panasonic plasma is far superior OVERALL to my old Hitachi 46" RPCRT.

Quite honestly, Hitachi RPCRTs were not known for there high quality images back in the day.

The elite RPTVs from the early 2000s were Pioneer Elite, Mits Diamond, and Tosh to some degree.

Thanks.
- Jay
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post #13 of 25 Old 10-27-2008, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbartenhagen View Post

Bill,

I would also be interested in more info on your comment. I have a 65 inch Mits RPTV that is in need of repair and I am most likely going to replace it with a FP and have assumed that the FP would be an upgrade from my old RPTV.

Mike

I would urge you to keep the 65" mits if you can have it repaired in-home. They are extremely sensitive to moving them. Ask any calibration professional and they will tell you that picture quality achieved on these sets is the best you can have.

One other point on this thread....today's DLPs and LCDs are referred to in the industry as throw-away technology. You get 5-6 good years and then they degrade. With CRTs it is a true investment. Mine has been giving to me since 1999 and still looks incredible today. No signs of giving out at the moment. They don't make 'em like they used to.

Thanks.
- Jay
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post #14 of 25 Old 10-27-2008, 11:00 AM
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I think it is a bit unfair to claim the superiority of CRT while not admitting any deficiencies, which are numerous, even on Mitsubishis. That doesn't help the posters looking for advice.

I mean, you claim CRTs are "an investment" but obviously this one didn't last all that long (mine didn't either) and now needs $400 in repairs PLUS $300-500 in calibration to get that great picture. Then you still have viewing angle issues, which can absolutely ruin the PQ. If you move the thing you probably need to recalibrate? The guns also have a much shorter lifespan than the phosphors in plasma or the light in an LCD, at least in theory. So I'm not sure I buy the "throw-away" claim when my CRT only lasted two years before the picture was significantly degraded.

The reason I persist is because I listened to people extolling the virtures of CRTs when I bought my RP and ended up regretting it. While I will give you that CRT can look better, the fact is that uncalibrated most of them cannot hold a candle to new flatscreens overall and even when calibrated they only provide a superior picture in dark environments in a very narrow field of view. And you still have this huge box that needs considerable physical space.

Again, go to the stores, look at TVs and prices, and trust your eyes.
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post #15 of 25 Old 10-27-2008, 01:33 PM
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To each their own. I personally own DLP (100"), LCD (42"), CRT (65") and have a very critical eye. I'm basing my recommendation on personal experience along with the recommendations of industry professionals. CRT has been great for me. It has obviously been bad for you.

Also, it is silly to "trust your eyes" on a set sitting in a store, especially considering they are usually in torch mode. This is bad advice if you are serious about your picture.

I do agree with some points you make such as "uncalibrated most of them cannot hold a candle to new flatscreens overall." There are certainly no geometry issues with LCDs/DLPs/Plasma which you can attribute a large percentage of the out of the box picture on CRTs looking questionable. Manufactures are also wising up to atleast putting a color temp setting in the menus that is somewhat close to 6500 kelvin.

As far as the throw away comment, some of that was directed towards modern day DLP and manufacturer build quality. The current crop of televisions today are just not manufactured like the higher end CRTs were. Even Mitsubishi's own diamond line is not what it once was.

Thanks.
- Jay
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post #16 of 25 Old 10-27-2008, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plmn View Post

My Panasonic plasma is far superior OVERALL to my old Hitachi 46" RPCRT. Brighter, less glare, uniform picture quality on all areas of the screen and I don't have to sit dead center in front of the TV to get a decent picture. The focus and brightness on my Hitachi was not consistant, the screen was not all that flat, it crushed blacks and if I stood up I couldn't see a dang thing. Now this wasn't a Mitsubishi, but it was a pretty highly rated TV when I bought it. Oh, did I mention it got burn-in after only two years?

Now, my RPCRT was not calibrated but then again neither is my plasma. In uncalibrated form, my plasma PQ blows away the RP in all areas except red color accuracy, which is an issue with my particular plasma (pz80) and not a problem with most flat panels.

There are certain aspects of RPCRTs can be superior, but most people are much happier with modern flat panels. I certainly am.

My point is if the OP is happy with the flat panels he sees in the stores, he should be happy at home and probably won't miss his RPCRT one bit. The specific PQ advantages on properly calibrated sets isn't enough to offset the overall disadvantages IMO. Don't be scared off, make your own judgement.

I would have any Television I owned calibrated by a expert. Its worth the Investment period.
Your Hitachi was a piece of crap from the onset but you did not know this.
CraigR also calibrated my Mitsubishi CRT RPTV and it looks Fabulous.
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post #17 of 25 Old 10-28-2008, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_waller View Post

Also, it is silly to "trust your eyes" on a set sitting in a store, especially considering they are usually in torch mode. This is bad advice if you are serious about your picture.

I mostly agree with that, I didn't mean to imply that you should look at them in torch mode in a very bright environment.

I should have stated that you should adjust the picture to realistic brightness and color levels and try to watch it in not-so-bright environment, which many smaller shops can provide. This will give most people a very good idea of what they will like in their home.

But still, I stand by my overall point to trust your eyes rather than what others say you should like best. There is more to PQ than a calibrated picture from a specific viewing angle. I don't think the OP will be disappointed with a new flat panel in that size range, which mostly limits the choices to quality sets, especially if his current RP is not calibrated. And I don't think it's worth it to sink $700-900 dollars in a TV that didn't give the second poster good reliability and when he wasn't happy with the viewing angle problems (mentioned in another thread).

But like everything here, that's just my opinion. And since my opinion should be completely clarified at this point, I'll go ahead and shut up.
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post #18 of 25 Old 10-28-2008, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_waller View Post

To each their own. I personally own DLP (100"), LCD (42"), CRT (65") and have a very critical eye. I'm basing my recommendation on personal experience along with the recommendations of industry professionals. CRT has been great for me. It has obviously been bad for you.

Also, it is silly to "trust your eyes" on a set sitting in a store, especially considering they are usually in torch mode. This is bad advice if you are serious about your picture.

I do agree with some points you make such as "uncalibrated most of them cannot hold a candle to new flatscreens overall." There are certainly no geometry issues with LCDs/DLPs/Plasma which you can attribute a large percentage of the out of the box picture on CRTs looking questionable. Manufactures are also wising up to atleast putting a color temp setting in the menus that is somewhat close to 6500 kelvin.

As far as the throw away comment, some of that was directed towards modern day DLP and manufacturer build quality. The current crop of televisions today are just not manufactured like the higher end CRTs were. Even Mitsubishi's own diamond line is not what it once was.

But you don't own a plasma, and your LCD is a Vizio.

I know this sounds a bit rash, but you can't base your judgements from inferior products, to one that is from a respectable company.

How would it sound if I told you not to purchase any 4 door sedans because I own a Sonata, a Porsche Cayenne, and kia, and the Porsche outperforms them all.
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post #19 of 25 Old 10-28-2008, 01:28 PM
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In any event, I don't know what your budget is like, but I would look at the Panasonic 65PZ850u
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post #20 of 25 Old 10-28-2008, 08:19 PM
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Pokernut,

My Mitsu Diamond 65711 is 5 years old, and I do have the shield on it. I have a brand new Panny 65PZ850u. I wrote a longer comparison earlier and walked away, it timed out, and I lost the post hence my shorter post above.

I think you really have to compare for yourself, but I have a little time now so here goes. I do not have either set calibrated, but I did find some settings for the Mitsu online and used those with some adjustments of my own. I also went into the service menu and did away with the red push on the set. So I did make some effort to improve the PQ, but after five years I wanted to free up some floorspace without loosing size or sacrificing PQ. I checked out the LCD’s but preferred plasma’s handling of motion and color accuracy.

Brightness is definitely not an issue with the Panny. I have four windows in the room and have no problem seeing the set even in the darker Studio Ref mode. You can brighten this thing up to near LCD if you like that look, but I would go with the curtains and the more accurate settings. The screen is no more reflective than the protector on the Mitsu. I have mounted it on a tilting mount and this allows me to compensate for reflection nearly getting rid of it all together.

I’m not using it for gaming. The Mitsu went to the basement with the 360. I don’t think you need to worry about burn-in as you have been living with a set that is more vulnerable to it than today’s plasmas. I never had any image retention, much less burn-in, gaming on my Mitsu and have yet to see it on my Panny. You may want to check out some plasmas and see if you are in the 1% or so that can see phosphor lag. I don’t, but apparently this is an issue some can see on plasmas.

The Panasonic seems to do a better job with SD content. This may not be relevant for that much longer but it is what it is. The OTA HD tuner in the Panasonic is better. I used to have to make antenna adjustments for the Mitsu to get all the channels I wanted. After plugging the Panny into the same cable it gets them all, and more, with no adjustment to the antenna. The viewing angle is much better on the new set, and IMO the colors are at least as good if not better on the plasma.

You and I came to a similar conclusion when purchasing a RPTV. I may not have all the words to accurately describe the PQ, but I know what I like. I have never had a set calibrated, but I do a lot of tinkering on my own to improve the PQ. The picture is excellent on the Mitsubishi, but I love the Panasonic with the 1080p Blurays. Football in HD is just as good as the Mitsu. Get yourself to a home theater store which has the 65 on display without all the fluorescent lights. Make sure it is playing a Bluray and set the picture mode to “Studio Ref” then decide if the picture is good enough.
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post #21 of 25 Old 10-29-2008, 12:52 PM
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Hey guys! I'm wondering something? I might be getting engaged soon and will probably be moving in together into a small on or two bedroom apartment. I live in a three room duplex and have a Mits 73-833. I got it right before i started dating my gf, so i never thought I'd have to get rid of it, but it's going down that road. So my question is, if I have to get rid of the 73 because of its size should I stick with another smaller dlp, or should I go with a flat panel? Any advice would be great. Thanks in advance.
Also any recs for FPs would be appreciated as well. I do ALOT of gaming and bluray watching and would like to stay in the 50-65 range with a budget of about $3000-$3500.
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post #22 of 25 Old 10-29-2008, 02:38 PM
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Reflections off a plasma are a killer for me. CRT-RPTV looks like film to me, nothing else does.
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post #23 of 25 Old 10-29-2008, 02:42 PM
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What does "film" look like?

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

Need electronics repair? A great place to start looking for a shop in your area:
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post #24 of 25 Old 10-29-2008, 05:47 PM
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I think he mean it has that granular look that you get when you see a film in the theater. At least until digital took over.
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post #25 of 25 Old 10-29-2008, 07:11 PM
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I personally loved the 65PZ750u, which you can still find for a GREAT price. I would look into it.
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