The Big TV Maker Shakeout of 2009- Small makes and some plasma makers in trouble - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 284 Old 02-03-2009, 08:16 AM
 
maxdog03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,804
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

D-Day is 2/12/09 when Pioneer releases their numbers. We will know thrn what is to become of them.

Will we? I know one thing for sure, Pioneer has a better chance of surviving the economy than SED has of becoming a player in the home theater market.
maxdog03 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 284 Old 02-03-2009, 11:14 AM
 
Auditor55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Silicon Valley, CA.
Posts: 8,795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdog03 View Post

Will we? I know one thing for sure, Pioneer has a better chance of surviving the economy than SED has of becoming a player in the home theater market.

I know because the Kuro killed off SED
Auditor55 is offline  
post #183 of 284 Old 02-03-2009, 11:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
heatwave3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

We all know who is rubbingtheir hands together like evil dweebs just hoping and wishing and praying Pioneer fails.
Laughable at best, especially when those people say it isn't just some personal trip they are on....yet they feel the need to say it over and over and over and over everyday here.

Its worth saying that while we'll have a much better sense of Pioneer's financial "past", I doubt we'll have tremendous clarity around their future on 2/12. I suspect we'll see the poor business results that have hammered the rest of the manufacturers however I suspect they may not go into great detail about their "go forward" plans for 2009, particularly since they have another quarter left in their fiscal year which ends 3/31. Expect to read in the financial summary about a "poor holiday season" and "dramatic world economic decline" as major factors for their poor 3Q results (while conveniently ignoring the past 4+ years performance when economic conditions were much better).

Expect "crystal clarity" about Pioneer's past but "muddy water" as it relates to the future. If there is to be a dramatic change to Pioneer's plans for the future, it will likely be a joint announcement with whoever they might "partner" with and I highly doubt that will be announced on 2/12.

What will likely be more visible is the likelihood that some type of "partnership" or other change will be in the cards as a result of the 3rd qtr financial performance. General direction on 2/12...yes. Definitive path forward regarding Pioneer's Plasma business...not very likely on the 12th.

OPPO BDP-83 EAP (second group)
heatwave3 is offline  
post #184 of 284 Old 02-03-2009, 12:04 PM
 
Auditor55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Silicon Valley, CA.
Posts: 8,795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

We all know who is rubbingtheir hands together like evil dweebs just hoping and wishing and praying Pioneer fails.
Laughable at best, especially when those people say it isn't just some personal trip they are on....yet they feel the need to say it over and over and over and over everyday here.

I don't understand your post. We're discussing hardcore numbers and facts related to the market in this thread. You keep bringing up issues that has more to with an emotional attachment that some might have for Pioneer, which I don't understand.

Let me try disillusion those who might have an emotional attached to the corporate giant Pioneer.

The Billion corporation called "Pioneer" doesn't care about you. The love you show for them is not returned. They wouldn't care if you lost your job and was out the streets.

The same is true for most of these corporations. The list can go on, its not just Pioneer. Its Ford, GM, Sony, Circuit City, JP Morgan, Intel, IBM etc.

Were nothing to them, were nothing buts serfs, or plebians, just like in fuedal times. The only thing they care about is that we buy their products, they don't care if we go into severe and crippling personal debt to do so.
Auditor55 is offline  
post #185 of 284 Old 02-03-2009, 12:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
greenland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

We all know who is rubbingtheir hands together like evil dweebs just hoping and wishing and praying Pioneer fails.
Laughable at best, especially when those people say it isn't just some personal trip they are on....yet they feel the need to say it over and over and over and over everyday here.

They better be careful about what they wish for. You know about the law of unintended consequences!

Those who are lusting after the death of the top tier price setter, are also those who keep lusting for the next flat panel displays, such as SED and OLED.

If manufacturers of current top of the line expensive displays, such as Pioneer, do not survive, then those next generation displays, such as SED and OLED, which would have to command a steep premium price, at introduction, will be far less likely to get developed.

If you are thinking about building a plant to introduce the first large SED, or OLED panels, and you know that you will have to charge even more for them than what Kuro panels currently command, and you see that model has already gone under, would you be more or less inclined to even make the plant investment? I doubt if they would be willing to make such a large gamble.

Even those of us who can not afford a Pioneer Kuro Elite, should really be rooting for Pioneer to survive, just so that there is a high priced product out there that SED, OLED, or..... has a price and quality trend setter, that has maintained a reasonable market price level floor, for them to introduce their new products.
greenland is offline  
post #186 of 284 Old 02-03-2009, 02:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
heatwave3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

They better be careful about what they wish for. You know about the law of unintended consequences!

Those who are lusting after the death of the top tier price setter, are also those who keep lusting for the next flat panel displays, such as SED and OLED.

If manufacturers of current top of the line expensive displays, such as Pioneer, do not survive, then those next generation displays, such as SED and OLED, which would have to command a steep premium price, at introduction, will be far less likely to get developed.

If you are thinking about building a plant to introduce the first large SED, or OLED panels, and you know that you will have to charge even more for them than what Kuro panels currently command, and you see that model has already gone under, would you be more or less inclined to even make the plant investment? I doubt if they would be willing to make such a large gamble.

Even those of us who can not afford a Pioneer Kuro Elite, should really be rooting for Pioneer to survive, just so that there is a high priced product out there that SED, OLED, or..... has a price and quality trend setter, that has maintained a reasonable market price level floor, for them to introduce their new products.

I think the reality is that many posting here are actually supporters of Pioneer displays, just not the way the business is run. It would be a real loss for all the reasons you suggest above and many more. The reality is that Pioneer has a 4.2% market share of the plasma display business and that's down 29%. Its simply not a viable business model to have a declining, marginal market share.

They need to find a way to bring their tremendous technology to more potential customers. With all due respect to the avid enthusiasts on AVS that support Kuro's, there simply isn't enough of them to support the business. If these enthusiasts really supported the business, they'd be looking for Pioneer to either launch lower grade "Kuro's" that don't cost as much but could be marketed against LCDs or they'd be speaking out for Pioneer to move to more of a main stream retailer approach with broader channels of distribution (and lower prices) than their exclusive dealership can provide to the company and the marketplace today.

Unfortunately that may be the only way for the company to both make money and grow their market share...which they must do if they are to stay in business. All those posting should certainly hope that Pioneer finds a way to stay in business, unfortunately the current business model with no changes, will only accelerate the path they are on to no where from a business perspective.

OPPO BDP-83 EAP (second group)
heatwave3 is offline  
post #187 of 284 Old 02-03-2009, 02:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JazzGuyy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oro Valley AZ
Posts: 2,683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Mid-luxury brands always have problems when the economy is bad. Ultra-luxury brands can often survive because their clientele is often immune to economic woes. Pioneer is only a mid-luxury brand; which is one of their problems. They don't have the cachet of a Runco and don't have the cost efficiencies of a Panasonic.

I am not fretting though about their technology disappearing though. My guess is that part of their deal with Panasonic gives Panny the first rights to acquire Pioneer's proprietary technology should Pio leave the TV market. Unlike the other mid-luxury brands like Fujitsu and NEC that left the market, Pioneer has real and valuable intellectual property that they can still get something out of.

JazzGuyy is offline  
post #188 of 284 Old 02-04-2009, 05:46 AM
VFR
AVS Special Member
 
VFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,027
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
VFR is offline  
post #189 of 284 Old 02-04-2009, 06:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mastermaybe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,191
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by heatwave3 View Post

I think the reality is that many posting here are actually supporters of Pioneer displays, just not the way the business is run. It would be a real loss for all the reasons you suggest above and many more. The reality is that Pioneer has a 4.2% market share of the plasma display business and that's down 29%. Its simply not a viable business model to have a declining, marginal market share.

They need to find a way to bring their tremendous technology to more potential customers. With all due respect to the avid enthusiasts on AVS that support Kuro's, there simply isn't enough of them to support the business. If these enthusiasts really supported the business, they'd be looking for Pioneer to either launch lower grade "Kuro's" that don't cost as much but could be marketed against LCDs or they'd be speaking out for Pioneer to move to more of a main stream retailer approach with broader channels of distribution (and lower prices) than their exclusive dealership can provide to the company and the marketplace today.

Unfortunately that may be the only way for the company to both make money and grow their market share...which they must do if they are to stay in business. All those posting should certainly hope that Pioneer finds a way to stay in business, unfortunately the current business model with no changes, will only accelerate the path they are on to no where from a business perspective.

The relationship between "market share" and profitabiltiy is not necessairly linear.

And that reality is no better exhibited than within the High-End A/V arena.

There are HUNDREDS (perhaps even thousands) of high-end manu's in the genre that have MINISCULE market shares, and yet, remain highly profitable.

Pioneer is multi-facted, multi-marketplace organization. Clearly, they do not need to rely upon the PDP rung for liquidity.

What they NEED is a comprehensive re-structuring that will allow that particular discipline (PDP and/or TV tech in general) to prosper in more than likely, a NEW form. Undoubtedly, this is precisely WHY they outsourced their panel production. THEY DO NOT NECESSARILY NEED TO SELL TENS OF MILLIONS OF TELEVISIONS TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN A "NEW" FORM.

Again, it needs to be understood that businesses can re-orientate themselves to a market (whether locally, nationally, or globally) in a myriad of ways.

It would be wise in my estimation, to first learn HOW and IF Pioneer chooses to pursue this "re-stucturing" in the coming months before building a pine box.


Tomorrow never knows.

James
It's

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

mastermaybe is offline  
post #190 of 284 Old 02-04-2009, 10:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cajieboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Space Coast, Florida
Posts: 4,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

The relationship between "market share" and profitabiltiy is not necessairly linear.

And that reality is no better exhibited than within the High-End A/V arena.

There are HUNDREDS (perhaps even thousands) of high-end manu's in the genre that have MINISCULE market shares, and yet, remain highly profitable.

Pioneer is multi-facted, multi-marketplace organization. Clearly, they do not need to rely upon the PDP rung for liquidity.

What they NEED is a comprehensive re-structuring that will allow that particular discipline (PDP and/or TV tech in general) to prosper in more than likely, a NEW form. Undoubtedly, this is precisely WHY they outsourced their panel production. THEY DO NOT NECESSARILY NEED TO SELL TENS OF MILLIONS OF TELEVISIONS TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN A "NEW" FORM.

Again, it needs to be understood that businesses can re-orientate themselves to a market (whether locally, nationally, or globally) in a myriad of ways.

It would be wise in my estimation, to first learn HOW and IF Pioneer chooses to pursue this "re-stucturing" in the coming months before building a pine box.


Tomorrow never knows.

James
It's

Well said & accurate. For those knuckleheads that have not only built the pine box, but have bought the shovels and dug the hole, you should re-read Mastermaybe's post about 10 times to let it sink in properly. After you've done that little chore, then go buy a piggy bank and start saving up for the next Pioneer 10G.
cajieboy is offline  
post #191 of 284 Old 02-04-2009, 10:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
heatwave3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

The relationship between "market share" and profitabiltiy is not necessairly linear.

And that reality is no better exhibited than within the High-End A/V arena.

There are HUNDREDS (perhaps even thousands) of high-end manu's in the genre that have MINISCULE market shares, and yet, remain highly profitable.


Very true, however you absolutely cannot survive with marginal market share, a market share that's declining AND and an unprofitable business. Not gonna work.

And that's essentially what Pioneer has today.

Consider the news of the day...Panasonic announcing plans to lay off 15,000 workers. I think that puts Pioneer's Plasma plans at risk as well as any future new products coming from Panasonic. "Delays" will be the watch word going forward.

If the market leader - Panasonic is struggling this badly, I really can't imagine what the news will be like from Pioneer next week.

Not sure if anyone saw the news today but Panasonic has announced enormous layoffs worldwide (15,000). I wonder with panasonic making Pioneer's 10G screens what if any impact Panasonics troubles will have on further development/release of a new product for Pioneer.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...lobal+business

OPPO BDP-83 EAP (second group)
heatwave3 is offline  
post #192 of 284 Old 02-04-2009, 10:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
heatwave3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Pioneer is multi-facted, multi-marketplace organization. Clearly, they do not need to rely upon the PDP rung for liquidity.

Actually they do. Pioneer is not "Multi-faceted". The company has 2 core businesses...Car Audio and Home Electronics which is primarily composed of PDPs from a revenue standpoint. While Car audio is bigger than Home electronics, losing Home electronics will likely make Pioneer a non-viable global business from a size standpoint.

OPPO BDP-83 EAP (second group)
heatwave3 is offline  
post #193 of 284 Old 02-04-2009, 12:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cajieboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Space Coast, Florida
Posts: 4,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 49
Heatwave, for you...you need to re-read Mastermaybe's Post #189 at least twenty times and write it down on the back of your hand so you won't forget in between those trips to the kitchen.
cajieboy is offline  
post #194 of 284 Old 02-04-2009, 12:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mastermaybe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,191
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by heatwave3 View Post

Actually they do. Pioneer is not "Multi-faceted". The company has 2 core businesses...Car Audio and Home Electronics which is primarily composed of PDPs from a revenue standpoint. While Car audio is bigger than Home electronics, losing Home electronics will likely make Pioneer a non-viable global business from a size standpoint.

mul·ti·fac·et·ed
adj. Having many facets or aspects.

That's not mine, but Webster's.

It's important to keep in mind that the term is not necessarily indicative of two genres per se, but of a varying product line. In Pioneer's case this includes:

Televisions/displays, DVD & Blu-ray, Navigation, Satellite Radio, Headphones, A/V Receivers, Home Theater Systems, Home CD/Cassette/Turntables, Home Speakers, DVD/Blu-ray Burners, Car Speakers, Car Amplifiers/Receivers, Pro DJ Accessories, Cables Surge Protectors, Personal Electronics, Media Players, Nautical A/V, etc.

Varying product lines like the one above afford corporations (like Pioneer) the ability to allocate/diversify their funds in much of the same manner as an individual (a keen one, anyways) who maintains a diversified retirement portfolio. It is unwise to underestimate the power of such diversification when placed in the hands of (an) experienced market strategist(s). And while Pioneer has undoubtedly shown a past ineptitude in that capacity, it's impossible to determine just yet if such a trend will continue.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

mastermaybe is offline  
post #195 of 284 Old 02-04-2009, 06:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
heatwave3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

mul·ti·fac·et·ed
adj. Having many facets or aspects.

That's not mine, but Webster's.

It's important to keep in mind that the term is not necessarily indicative of two genres per se, but of a varying product line. In Pioneer's case this includes:

Televisions/displays, DVD & Blu-ray, Navigation, Satellite Radio, Headphones, A/V Receivers, Home Theater Systems, Home CD/Cassette/Turntables, Home Speakers, DVD/Blu-ray Burners, Car Speakers, Car Amplifiers/Receivers, Pro DJ Accessories, Cables Surge Protectors, Personal Electronics, Media Players, Nautical A/V, etc.

Varying product lines like the one above afford corporations (like Pioneer) the ability to allocate/diversify their funds in much of the same manner as an individual (a keen one, anyways) who maintains a diversified retirement portfolio. It is unwise to underestimate the power of such diversification when placed in the hands of (an) experienced market strategist(s). And while Pioneer has undoubtedly shown a past ineptitude in that capacity, it's impossible to determine just yet if such a trend will continue.

James

My recommendation is to do so business homework because your view of Pioneer is from the limited perspective of a consumer not from a financial or investor perspective. Pioneer is not multi-facted unless you want to characterize "2 facets" as being multi-faceted. In the business world, as even Pioneer describes itself, they have only 2 major businesses (with a relatively modest revenue stream from patent licenses).

Pioneer's Car audio business is their larger business and makes money. Their Home electronics business is dominated from a revenue perspective by their plasma displays and is losing significant money.

By any business definition, Pioneer is a very narrow business with little diversification. While I can understand how a consumer might view Pioneer as "multi-faceted", in the business world they clearly are not, as even Pioneer defines their business.

The financial data below does not include any data from April 2008 to today.
http://pioneer.jp/corp/ir/corp_info/...s/index-e.html

OPPO BDP-83 EAP (second group)
heatwave3 is offline  
post #196 of 284 Old 02-04-2009, 06:13 PM
 
Auditor55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Silicon Valley, CA.
Posts: 8,795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Reading the gloomy reports concerning Panasonic, I don't know how Pioneer has a remote chance of making it through this downturn.
Auditor55 is offline  
post #197 of 284 Old 02-05-2009, 06:34 AM
VFR
AVS Special Member
 
VFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,027
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Beaverton, Ore. Planar Systems reported Wednesday that sales from its home-theater business unit, which handles the Runco and Planar video display brands, declined 32 percent in its fiscal first quarter, compared to the first quarter of 2008.

The company said sales of high-end home-theater equipment continues to be negatively impacted by the slowdown in new home construction and a poor overall economic climate.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6634660.html
VFR is offline  
post #198 of 284 Old 02-05-2009, 01:16 PM
Member
 
viper37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Reading the gloomy reports concerning Panasonic, I don't know how Pioneer has a remote chance of making it through this downturn.

it depends on their cash reserve & their possibility to borrow money. Most big companies in the world are going to have losses, so that's irrelevant. What's important, is how much cash a company has in it's bank account, so to speak.
viper37 is offline  
post #199 of 284 Old 02-06-2009, 10:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
heatwave3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post

it depends on their cash reserve & their possibility to borrow money. Most big companies in the world are going to have losses, so that's irrelevant. What's important, is how much cash a company has in it's bank account, so to speak.

Pioneer to end all Plasma TV production

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post15753968

OPPO BDP-83 EAP (second group)
heatwave3 is offline  
post #200 of 284 Old 02-06-2009, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
SystemShock2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SF Bay Area, in the state of Californication
Posts: 1,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
^ Yes. Sadly, it appears that Pioneer is the first victim of the 'Great TV Maker Shakeout of 2009'.

This thread seems to have been prescient, but there is no joy in that when the news is as bad as this.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/15908...perations.html

"SED's dead, baby. SED's dead."
SystemShock2 is offline  
post #201 of 284 Old 02-06-2009, 12:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mastermaybe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,191
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 162
[quote=heatwave3;15739469]My recommendation is to do so business homework because your view of Pioneer is from the limited perspective of a consumer not from a financial or investor perspective. Pioneer is not multi-facted unless you want to characterize "2 facets" as being multi-faceted. In the business world, as even Pioneer describes itself, they have only 2 major businesses (with a relatively modest revenue stream from patent licenses).

Pioneer's Car audio business is their larger business and makes money. Their Home electronics business is dominated from a revenue perspective by their plasma displays and is losing significant money.

By any business definition, Pioneer is a very narrow business with little diversification. While I can understand how a consumer might view Pioneer as "multi-faceted", in the business world they clearly are not, as even Pioneer defines their business.


Ha, LOL. If you only knew how much "business" homework I've done.

Anyways, for about the 186th time, I (or anyone else, that I'm aware) never denied the possibility of this day. I merely cautioned to exercise a bit of patience and wait for Pioneer to announce how they planned to proceed.

So, I'm sure the band of Nostradamus' will now come forth and claim one of the emptiest "victories" one could ever imagine.

Really, it's just a *hit day for those who enjoy top-level video, that's all.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

mastermaybe is offline  
post #202 of 284 Old 02-06-2009, 12:23 PM
Member
 
viper37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by heatwave3 View Post

Pioneer to end all Plasma TV production

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post15753968

So I guess the cash reserve weren't good enough.

Still, they survive. They may sell their technology or be back in a few years, who knows?
viper37 is offline  
post #203 of 284 Old 02-06-2009, 12:49 PM
 
Auditor55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Silicon Valley, CA.
Posts: 8,795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post

So I guess the cash reserve weren't good enough.

Still, they survive. They may sell their technology or be back in a few years, who knows?

As I have said many times on the AVS forum, which stands for Audio Video Science, that Pioneer was going to fall or come to an end. Many got mad at me, call me all kinds of names, called me troll and all of that. But I predicated this end for Pioneer.
Auditor55 is offline  
post #204 of 284 Old 02-06-2009, 02:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
heatwave3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper37 View Post

So I guess the cash reserve weren't good enough.

Still, they survive. They may sell their technology or be back in a few years, who knows?

Based on Moody's debt downgrade 2 days ago, I'm not so sure they survive. Won't know until their financials are released on the 12th.

OPPO BDP-83 EAP (second group)
heatwave3 is offline  
post #205 of 284 Old 02-06-2009, 03:31 PM
Senior Member
 
sullly11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Boston
Posts: 200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

As I have said many times on the AVS forum, which stands for Audio Video Science, that Pioneer was going to fall or come to an end. Many got mad at me, call me all kinds of names, called me troll and all of that. But I predicated this end for Pioneer.

Agree completely. Stick a fork in them, they are done. As good as Pioneer's TVs may be, their public filings indicate that they can not make a profit on their TVs. Pioneer will be forced to take actions to conserve cash and try to survive and this will likely mean selling off or closing unprofitable businesses. Only the strongest and largest TV makers are going to make it out of this recession.

This prediction has nothing to do with the quality of Pioneer's TVs and I have no horse in this race. I'm basing my prediction on 20 years of finance experience and a slow read of Pioneer's public filings of their IR site.
sullly11 is offline  
post #206 of 284 Old 02-06-2009, 06:58 PM
Senior Member
 
sullly11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Boston
Posts: 200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just saw the post under the Plasma section that Pioneer has announced that it is ceasing TV production. My prediction above looks a little stupid now. Where are all the fan boys who argued for multiple posts that there is no way that Pioneer could cease making TVs because Pioneer is a "multi faceted" company that makes great TVs.


Heatwave, Auditor55 and a few other understand how business works and their posts look pretty smart with the recent news.
sullly11 is offline  
post #207 of 284 Old 02-06-2009, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
SystemShock2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SF Bay Area, in the state of Californication
Posts: 1,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Given today's events, I think this excerpt from the original article bears re-reading:

Industry executives expect only a handful of companies – Sony, Samsung, Panasonic Corp., Sharp Co., LG Electronics Co. and Toshiba Corp. – to survive the latest downturn.

The others, they say, may be forced to either pull out of the TV business, or join forces with a surviving entity.



They sure weren't kidding.

"SED's dead, baby. SED's dead."
SystemShock2 is offline  
post #208 of 284 Old 02-06-2009, 10:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Carled's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 2,965
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by SystemShock2 View Post

Given today's events, I think this excerpt from the original article bears re-reading:

Industry executives expect only a handful of companies – Sony, Samsung, Panasonic Corp., Sharp Co., LG Electronics Co. and Toshiba Corp. – to survive the latest downturn.

The others, they say, may be forced to either pull out of the TV business, or join forces with a surviving entity.



They sure weren't kidding.

I haven't heard much from Hitachi and Mitsubishi about their current situation. No news is good news?
Carled is offline  
post #209 of 284 Old 02-07-2009, 03:15 AM
Member
 
meh :-|'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Anyways, for about the 186th time, I (or anyone else, that I'm aware) never denied the possibility of this day. I merely cautioned to exercise a bit of patience and wait for Pioneer to announce how they planned to proceed.

So, I'm sure the band of Nostradamus' will now come forth and claim one of the emptiest "victories" one could ever imagine.

Well its not like you needed to be a rocket scientist to see that one coming.
meh :-| is offline  
post #210 of 284 Old 02-07-2009, 05:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
heatwave3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled View Post

I haven't heard much from Hitachi and Mitsubishi about their current situation. No news is good news?

I doubt it.

OPPO BDP-83 EAP (second group)
heatwave3 is offline  
Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off