My thoughts on LCD vs Plasma, and why I am choosing LCD. - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

I couldn't imagine anyone choosing a current TV over the 9th gen Kuros unless it is a price thing.

I have an 8th gen Kuro and watched it recently (I usually don't as my brother uses it most of the time while I use our dedicated HT room) and the thing is simply amazing. That the 9th gen improves on the PQ it has is even more impressive.

No IR, no burn-in, great blacks, great brightness, good colour reproduction, good clarity/detail, ACCURATE white level...

If people wish to choose other displays then cool but to me it is crazy.

The KURO's definitely represent the best flat panel displays, of any type, available today. I have the 8G 60" Elite PRO-150FD.
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post #362 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by SystemShock2 View Post

Plasma isn't just blood, it's also a superheated/ionized gas that behaves so differently from gases, liquids, or solids that it's considered the fourth state of matter.

It's kind of a 'Star Trek' term in that way, as in, "Captain, that ship is venting plasma". So it does get some geek points for that.

'LCD', as a name, only sounds cool if you visualize it as a bad-guy Mexican wrestler: "El Seedy".
.

I think SXRD had the coolest name.
"Silicone Crystal Refletive display".

Now that sounds "techy"

wHy So SeRiOus???



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post #363 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 08:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by HarrisonS View Post

The KURO's definitely represent the best flat panel displays, of any type, available today. I have the 8G 60" Elite PRO-150FD.

That's up for debate.
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post #364 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 08:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by maxdog03 View Post

The funny thing is audi, nobody wants to "get you". If a person wants to live in a land of delusion then so be it.

Now how about those pictures of your Pioneer plasma and dither.

Nah, you want turn me into a Kurolian. but I'm too objective for that.

BTW, SED technology has no need for dithering.

Pioneer 9g 37,000-1 CR

4 Year old SED protoype- 100,000-1. CR
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post #365 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

BTW, SED technology has no need for dithering.

Pioneer 9g 37,000-1 CR

4 Year old SED protoype- 100,000-1. CR

Yes I've read the theoretical claims by Canon on SED not having to use dither. To do so they need to combine PWM with voltage modulation to get over 10-bit. I think all of the SED prototypes made only used PWM. However, unlike Plasma the PWM was true PWM without using subfields.

As for the contrast, well the black level of the 10K prototype was based peak luminance versus MLL so I will assume the same for the 100K prototype. Since the best SED prototype matched the 9G Kuros with regards to MLL I would assume the difference is in peak brightness. Anyone know what the peak brightness of the 9G Kuros is in cd/m2?

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post #366 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

That's up for debate.

only to those in denial, or basing everything off of thier personal preference..

wHy So SeRiOus???



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post #367 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 04:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by xrox View Post

Yes I've read the theoretical claims by Canon on SED not having to use dither. To do so they need to combine PWM with voltage modulation to get over 10-bit. I think all of the SED prototypes made only used PWM. However, unlike Plasma the PWM was true PWM without using subfields.

As for the contrast, well the black level of the 10K prototype was based peak luminance versus MLL so I will assume the same for the 100K prototype. Since the best SED prototype matched the 9G Kuros with regards to MLL I would assume the difference is in peak brightness. Anyone know what the peak brightness of the 9G Kuros is in cd/m2?

Dr Raymond Soniera also said SED would have no need for dithering.
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post #368 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 04:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chadmak09 View Post

only to those in denial, or basing everything off of thier personal preference..

It all comes down to personal preference. Unless you can scientically prove otherwise, its just a preference.
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post #369 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 05:46 PM
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What is wrong with you? Honestly, I'm asking this question not as a personal attack but because I don't understand your method of thinking. You have a 9g Kuro now, correct? How can you honestly say that it is not the best display on the market?

I think you're just being argumentative for argument's sake. Give it a rest. No one wants to hear it anymore. I'm not trumpeting the Kuro horn or anything; in fact, I've owned and enjoyed numerous Samsung lcds (the most recent of which was the 81F-- a tv responsible for advancing the lcd state of the art). I don't have any delusions about it though. The 81F was still behind the 8g kuros when it launched, just as the 950 and XBR8 are still playing catch up with the 9gs.

Aside from those sets, and possibly the NeoPDPs from Panasonic (early reports place them still a notch below), there isn't a consumer display capable of matching the kuro's combination of contrast in REAL world material, accurate color, and stellar (for a stand alone unit) processing.

Name one. It doesn't matter because you're already wrong
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post #370 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 05:48 PM
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And if anything, OLED is the future, not SED. You can blabber all you want about it being a superior tech, but if it's not financially viable, it won't ever see the light of day. Stop slamming EVERY high quality set on the market and appreciate what we have. I can't speak for everyone, but your negativity should be directed elsewhere.
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post #371 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 05:58 PM
 
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What is wrong with you? Honestly, I'm asking this question not as a personal attack but because I don't understand your method of thinking. You have a 9g Kuro now, correct? How can you honestly say that it is not the best display on the market?

I never said the Kuro wasn't the best display nor did I say it was the best display. There are no facts to prove one way or the other, just opinions or preferences.

Quote:


I think you're just being argumentative for argument's sake. Give it a rest. No one wants to hear it anymore. I'm not trumpeting the Kuro horn or anything; in fact, I've owned and enjoyed numerous Samsung lcds (the most recent of which was the 81F-- a tv responsible for advancing the lcd state of the art). I don't have any delusions about it though. The 81F was still behind the 8g kuros when it launched, just as the 950 and XBR8 are still playing catch up with the 9gs.

Once again, that's your opinion, its obvious not everyone agrees with you otherwise there wouldn't be a LCD forum or a Panasonic plasma threads.

Quote:


Aside from those sets, and possibly the NeoPDPs from Panasonic (early reports place them still a notch below), there isn't a consumer display capable of matching the kuro's combination of contrast in REAL world material, accurate color, and stellar (for a stand alone unit) processing.

You have your opinion others have theirs, you just need to accept that others don't feel the same way you do.
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post #372 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 06:00 PM
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Key word being "prototype". It doesn't mean a thing until you can actually, you know, purchase one. That isn't going to happen so stop pretending. Being objective isn't the same as provoking everyone for no reason other than your own amusement.
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post #373 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 06:04 PM
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Actually, several of those ARE facts. The Kuro elites do have the highest measured contrast, most accurate color, and near perfect gamma. Those are indisputable, scientifically verified statistics that have been checked by numerous professionals and many here on AVS. I guess that doesn't matter to you though, because your opinion apparently overides reality.
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post #374 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 06:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ll Viper ll View Post

Actually, several of those ARE facts. The Kuro elites do have the highest measured contrast, most accurate color, and near perfect gamma. Those are indisputable, scientifically verified statistics that have been checked by numerous professionals and many here on AVS. I guess that doesn't matter to you though, because your opinion apparently overides reality.

Well then why are some people buying XBR8's instead of the Kuro when its clear they can afford both?
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post #375 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ll Viper ll View Post

And if anything, OLED is the future, not SED. You can blabber all you want about it being a superior tech, but if it's not financially viable, it won't ever see the light of day. Stop slamming EVERY high quality set on the market and appreciate what we have. I can't speak for everyone, but your negativity should be directed elsewhere.

You are probably right but you never know. SED could rise from the ashes if they feel they can best LCD and PDP at a decent cost.

OLED may never make it past small handheld devices due to lifetime issues. It may get up to laptop computers but then again burn-in will be an issue with a static screen on a computer. I have seen OLED and it is great, the PQ blows everything else away. For some intermittent use devices such as cell phones it will be great. The longevity problems will prevent it from being used in a TV that is on for hours though.

SED doesn't have the same longevity problem as OLED so a TV company that needs a niche away from the LCD PDP flock may try to go with SED.
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post #376 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Well then why are some people buying XBR8's instead of the Kuro when its clear they can afford both?

Because they're stupid (or merely uninformed). The XBR8 DOES not beat the Kuro elite in any of the categories I mentioned above. So, unless you have an absolute need for an LCD (I'm not unreasonable--they beat PDPs in brightly lit conditions), it would be illogical to buy the Sony over the Kuro, especially considering the price.

Any more? I thought not
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post #377 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Well then why are some people buying XBR8's instead of the Kuro when its clear they can afford both?

Great question. Let me predict what's coming: they are uneducated dupes aka stupid, have been brainwashed, bad lighting at BB, pushy salesmen at BB, own stock in Sony...

I swear I typed mine before the post above showed up.
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post #378 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 07:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ll Viper ll View Post

Because they're stupid (or merely uninformed). The XBR8 DOES not beat the Kuro elite in any of the categories I mentioned above. So, unless you have an absolute need for an LCD (I'm not unreasonable--they beat PDPs in brightly lit conditions), it would be illogical to buy the Sony over the Kuro, especially considering the price.

Any more? I thought not

Once again, you call people "stupid" that don't have the same preference as you do. Again, this proves you have a hard time accepting the fact that others don't see or feel the same as you do about the Kuro.
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post #379 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 07:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ramazur View Post

Great question. Let me predict what's coming: they are uneducated dupes aka stupid, have been brainwashed, bad lighting at BB, pushy salesmen at BB, own stock in Sony...

I swear I typed mine before the post above showed up.

They're so predictable!
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post #380 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 07:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ll Viper ll View Post

Because they're stupid (or merely uninformed). The XBR8 DOES not beat the Kuro elite in any of the categories I mentioned above. So, unless you have an absolute need for an LCD (I'm not unreasonable--they beat PDPs in brightly lit conditions), it would be illogical to buy the Sony over the Kuro, especially considering the price.

Any more? I thought not

Alright....I have enjoyed reading your rants and must chime in. Let's be clear here it is the Elite that is at top of pack along with XBR8 not the non-Elites..

The non-Elites push Red and adjustments suck thus the 6020 went right back where it came from..

Also, I picked the XBR8 over all displays available because I feel it is the best.. A nine on a scale of ten verses a 9.5 for the Elite (not a huge difference there). I could afford whatever I want...(to a point).

I would have to say uniformed is a huge opinion on your behalf...

I hate talking up my gear but with Audio I have $40k in gear. I am more than informed on every piece of equipment I buy right down to the speaker cables...I would not have bought a set that I feel could not match the rest of my set-up.

If you would like to challenge my set-up against yours I am more than up to it...

In my uniformed opinion there is no greater display than the XBR8. Stay away from brocures and get one in your room when you can afford it. The picture quality is mind boggling and it has nothing to do with Windows! I watch in Cinema mode...

I have never said the Elite is not a great display but I must laugh at those who swear there is nothing close. You are very wrong...and very stupid err misinformed...

Non-Elite aka Kuro is not in the same breath as the Elites and XBR8's. But of course that is my uniformed opinion....

Rick
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post #381 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

It all comes down to personal preference. Unless you can scientically prove otherwise, its just a preference.

no it doesn't.
There are these things called standards and movies/etc are mastered/edited with these standards in mind.
Whichever one comes the closest to perfect and is the truest to the source should be the best.

wHy So SeRiOus???



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post #382 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Dr Raymond Soniera also said SED would have no need for dithering.

Something else he said:

"The actual black-level produced by a display is almost never reported in manufacturer's spec sheets or published reviews, yet for most applications it's actually much more important than peak white brightness, which seems to get most of the attention. Black-level should be the single most important spec after screen size if you're working in multimedia, imaging, photography, home theater, or in any environment with controlled or subdued lighting."

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post #383 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ll Viper ll View Post

Because they're stupid (or merely uninformed). The XBR8 DOES not beat the Kuro elite in any of the categories I mentioned above. So, unless you have an absolute need for an LCD (I'm not unreasonable--they beat PDPs in brightly lit conditions), it would be illogical to buy the Sony over the Kuro, especially considering the price.

Any more? I thought not

I would not say stupid. Thats not right.

I would say that their taste is not for the most accurate and the better blacks, better viewing angles, bettter motion, etc.etc.etc.

Those things may be factors for them. But they are not the important or deciding factors.

Maybe brightness and torchablility are.
And if thats what they like, then thats cool. Whatever works for them.
Hey, they spent the money, they can enjoy it the way they want.

But for the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would buy one of the newer LCD's and have it calibrated to a normal brightness level.

If you are not going to use the extra brightness then why in the heck didn't you just get a plasma?
Especially in the case of the XBR8. If you are going to adjust the brightness to normal levels when you get it home, then you would have been better off buyng an Elite 9G. You most likely would have got the Elite for cheaper also.

wHy So SeRiOus???



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post #384 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by CETA1 View Post

Also, I picked the XBR8 over all displays available because I feel it is the best.. A nine on a scale of ten verses a 9.5 for the Elite (not a huge difference there). I could afford whatever I want...(to a point).
Rick

I am no plasma fan but I don't get your argument here. If you say the Kuro is a 9.5 and the XBR8 is a 9.0 why the hell would you pick something .5 point worse if you could afford both? Wouldn't you just get the 9.5? I don'tget it.

And those pictures you posted. Great I am looking at a scaled down image through a camera on my LCD computer monitor. Not sure what that proves (by the way the blacks look crushed).
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post #385 of 385 Old 03-16-2009, 11:17 PM
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Hi Folks, some posts removed and thread now closed since it seems to have run it's course.

Thanks all


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