Poll Plasma vs LCD - Page 7 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: what do you prefer for a main TV Plasma or LCD?
LCD (I own(ed) BOTH LCD and Plasma) 0 0%
Plasma (I own(ed) BOTH LCD and Plasma) 0 0%
LCD (ONLY have owned LCD) 0 0%
Plasma (ONLY have owned Plasma) 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-07-2010, 07:49 AM
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^ Sorry, you're the one who is incorrect. And your analogy between AVS and Fox News is deeply flawed.

Further: if you extended this poll BEYOND the walls of AVS...say major A/V publications and websites, I'd all but GUARANTEE you that the margins for plasma would only WIDEN, as virtually every single publication around consistently has chosen PDP's as their top choices...of course Panasonic's bizarre black-lifting did not help this reality in the last few months.

To say this poll doesn't hold "any value" is simply ludicrous. It is REASONABLE to assume that AVS is populated with folks who zealously pursue "high-level" A/V equipment/interaction.

However, it is GROSSLY UNreasonable to assume some discrepancy between their optimum choice of display panel exists out of anything OTHER than what they feel provides the best image.

Do you see what's going on here?

You are purporting that somehow (bizarrely, I might add) a bias exists at AVS for PDP's out of something NOT based upon how they perform...especially AGAINST LCD's.

There of course is absolutely ZERO footing for such an assertion, and therefore, it is invalid.

Again. Again. Again.

It would be like visiting a "driving enthusiast" web-site and complaining that front-wheel drive cars are not being fairly represented. I'm not sure if there's a better (read: more accurate) analogy that I can come up with.


James

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Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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Old 04-07-2010, 09:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

^ Sorry, you're the one who is incorrect. And your analogy between AVS and Fox News is deeply flawed.

Further: if you extended this poll BEYOND the walls of AVS...say major A/V publications and websites, I'd all but GUARANTEE you that the margins for plasma would only WIDEN, as virtually every single publication around consistently has chosen PDP's as their top choices...of course Panasonic's bizarre black-lifting did not help this reality in the last few months.

To say this poll doesn't hold "any value" is simply ludicrous. It is REASONABLE to assume that AVS is populated with folks who zealously pursue "high-level" A/V equipment/interaction.

However, it is GROSSLY UNreasonable to assume some discrepancy between their optimum choice of display panel exists out of anything OTHER than what they feel provides the best image.

Do you see what's going on here?

You are purporting that somehow (bizarrely, I might add) a bias exists at AVS for PDP's out of something NOT based upon how they perform...especially AGAINST LCD's.

There of course is absolutely ZERO footing for such an assertion, and therefore, it is invalid.

Again. Again. Again.

It would be like visiting a "driving enthusiast" web-site and complaining that front-wheel drive cars are not being fairly represented. I'm not sure if there's a better (read: more accurate) analogy that I can come up with.


James

Nope that comparaison is spot on. You've just proved it.

You want us to extend this poll to other "specialized" medium and forum as if AV enthousiast were a monolithic bloc that are all member of those forums.
You are in a way saying that Fox is right because the Tea Party movement says so.

I'm an enthousiast since the mid 90's. I had a dedicated HT room with PJ and 106" screen when most people were still watching their 27"-36" TV's. I have a Media server with 19Tb of storage filled with HD and SD movies, I have over 1000 DVD, 130 BR, 25 HD-DVD, 15 LD and still have 6 VHS tape

AVS in the start may have been the home of an elitist subset of AV enthusiast and some part of it are still that way. But most of it is now populate by normal joe who have an interest in this hobby. You may yearn for the good ol' day but that time is past.

Real AV enthusiast, like real car enthusiast, spend their time playing with their gear, not writing and projecting their view on other enthousiast. You are acting like a movie critique that doesn't understand why people go watch the silly action movie instead of the artsy flick just because the "elite" says the action movie is ****. Nobody care what the elite says in the end. People buys what they like. You can say that Plasma is the best thing in the world but if me and othersdon't like the damn picture it shows we won't buy it and for us Plasma is inferior.

Were I live we have a saying: "We don't want to know. We want to see." and when I see a plasma TV beside a 120 or 240hz LCD what I see is a dimmer and duller picture on the plasma. I don't care if your spreadsheet says the Plasma is more accurate or if it give more of "what was intended by the director" look, I don't like it and I don't care, and I vote with my wallet like millions do!

I'm an AV enthousiast, you are an AV 'leet. You are more interested in specs than in performance.
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:48 AM
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There is so much illogical thought process going on above it's mind-blowing.

First, you want it both ways:

"AVS in the start may have been the home of an elitist subset of AV enthusiast and some part of it are still that way. But most of it is now populate by normal joe who have an interest in this hobby. You may yearn for the good ol' day but that time is past."

1. If so, then where are "they" (the average joes) in this survey? You know, the overwhelming majority of the population that purchases LCDs because they "buy what they like"?
2. So if people "buy what they like"...that must mean people "like" Camry's more than BMW's because they "sell more"?


Of course there are other variables. But, of course the above 2 statements I made above perfectly crystalize your absurd, contradictory, assertions.

Folks who prefer PDP's are "spec-hounds" heh, lol!

My fiance and friends know jack-diddly about "specs", but they can ALL witness the deeper blacks, better off axis image, and superior motion resolution/handling of my PDP vs my LCD.

So much for the "specs" I guess.


Then, you attempt to use a strawman argument to over-inflate a person's position who prefers the image that a PDP renders over an LCD and it of course falls flat on its face.

I offered up multiple, viable avenues of which to pursue what folks who ALSO REALLY view critically prefer and you shot them down. I then offered a salient analogy to compare why comparable offerings in another field would be non-existent/less represented in a similar survey ...you chose not to address it.

Instead, you choose to refute obvious statistics, that, while not wholly scientific, offer more than enough info for a reasonable person to make a reasonable deduction.

There's not much more I or anyone can offer you, I'm afraid.

I'd tell you to keep believing whatever it is you believe, but you've already contradicted yourself, so who knows what "that" really is.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

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Old 04-07-2010, 09:49 AM
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I have to agree with Karmya. By no means does AVS represent the whole of A/V enthusiasts. We can't even say that AVS represents the majority of A/V enthusiasts on the web, let alone in the world in general.

I will say that I believe that AVS is probably the largest A/V enthusiast website around. However I go to a ton of other websites that have A/V sections and they are full of people who don't like AVS for some reason or other. So unless you can go to those websites and poll them as well, you can't claim that this poll is even close to all encompassing.

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Old 04-07-2010, 09:56 AM
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Old 04-07-2010, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post

I have to agree with Karmya. By no means does AVS represent the whole of A/V enthusiasts. We can't even say that AVS represents the majority of A/V enthusiasts on the web, let alone in the world in general.

I will say that I believe that AVS is probably the largest A/V enthusiast website around. However I go to a ton of other websites that have A/V sections and they are full of people who don't like AVS for some reason or other. So unless you can go to those websites and poll them as well, you can't claim that this poll is even close to all encompassing.

First of all, who ever said it DID (represent the "whole")?! I certainly didn't.

What I DID say, it that it's a pretty fair representation of a good number of enthusiasts.

THEN, I said, go ahead and seek out other sites, publications, etc and see where a poll like this would end up.

But, that probably wouldn't matter either, lol.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

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Old 04-07-2010, 10:55 AM
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I guess this kind of poll is meaningless because it does not serve anything useful. People who dislike Plasma won't change their mind with this poll. People who like Plasma, of course, will feel more comfortable with this poll. But in reality, people still buy whatever appears best to them, irrespective of either technology.
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Old 04-07-2010, 11:23 AM
 
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Quote:
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First of all, who ever said it DID (represent the "whole")?! I certainly didn't.

What I DID say, it that it's a pretty fair representation of a good number of enthusiasts.

THEN, I said, go ahead and seek out other sites, publications, etc and see where a poll like this would end up.

But, that probably wouldn't matter either, lol.

James

Only if your "good number of enthusiast" => to my "good number of enthusiast".

In other word you are basing the value of this poll solely on anecdotal evidence or personnal impression. This is the signature of a bad and a meaningless poll.

And number isn't a factor of what is best. Some said in this thread that we can't consider the vastly superior number of LCD being sold as a factor of their superiority over Plasma, but on the other hand we should consider the vastly superior number of answer in this poll as a mark of superiority of Plasma?!?

Am I the only one who see a double standard here?

What, do you believe that only "AV enthusiast" buys plasma and only j6p buys LCD?

Sorry to burst your bubble but this isn't how it is in the real world.
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Old 04-07-2010, 12:01 PM
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"What, do you believe that only "AV enthusiast" buys plasma and only j6p buys LCD?"

Believe nothing of the sort, obviously.
Matter of fact, I "throw out" all of the low-end and middle of the road displays on BOTH sides. I view this strictly from a TECHNOLOGICAL standpoint.

The BEST PDP circa April 7th 2010, outperforms the BEST LCD.

There is no double standard. "Experts" and/or "enthusiasts", irrespective of they're i-net or real-world locale, will choose a plasma over an lcd.

James

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Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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Old 04-07-2010, 12:05 PM
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I guess this kind of poll is meaningless because it does not serve anything useful. People who dislike Plasma won't change their mind with this poll. People who like Plasma, of course, will feel more comfortable with this poll. But in reality, people still buy whatever appears best to them, irrespective of either technology.

You know what's funny? I find a VAST number of folks who purchase LCD's will STILL admit it doesn't perform as well as a plasma, but I've NEVER heard the opposite.

Like me. I own 2 LCD's, but neither perform as well as my plasma. But, they were small enough and economically good choices for their application.

This poll isn't about "changing anyone's mind" it's about an attempt to surmise what "x" number of people feel LCD delivers the best image vs. PDP.

In that vein, it has served its purpose well...regardless of how a narrow few try to re-cast it otherwise.

James

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Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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Old 04-07-2010, 12:09 PM
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"And number isn't a factor of what is best. Some said in this thread that we can't consider the vastly superior number of LCD being sold as a factor of their superiority over Plasma, but on the other hand we should consider the vastly superior number of answer in this poll as a mark of superiority of Plasma?!?"

Well, perhaps limitedly, YES. And if you can't figure out why there is a CLEAR distinction between the two, please ask someone for help.

I'll give you a hint, it would be like NOT determining a Hyundai Accent is a better-performing automobile over a 3 series BMW based strictly upon the number of units sold, BUT, making the assumption that the BMW is a better performing car based upon a few hundred driving enthusiasts voting that it is (over the Accent).

Why a handful of people cannot make this connection is beyond me.

James

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Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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Old 04-07-2010, 12:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

"And number isn't a factor of what is best. Some said in this thread that we can't consider the vastly superior number of LCD being sold as a factor of their superiority over Plasma, but on the other hand we should consider the vastly superior number of answer in this poll as a mark of superiority of Plasma?!?"

Well, perhaps limitedly, YES. And if you can't figure out why there is a CLEAR distinction between the two, please ask someone for help.

I'll give you a hint, it would be like NOT determining a Hyundai Accent is a better-performing automobile over a 3 series BMW based strictly upon the number of units sold, BUT, making the assumption that the BMW is a better performing car based upon a few hundred driving enthusiasts voting that it is (over the Accent).

Why a handful of people cannot make this connection is beyond me.

James

Car analogy never really work you know....

The BMW is a better built with better parts and more option of the Accent.

A Plasma display isn't built from "better" parts, doesn't have more options and definitively isn't better built than LCD, considering their history.

You aren't comparing different brand but different tech. If you want to use a car analogy then the valid one would be gaz vs diesel. And even then you have car enthusiast that prefer diesel over gaz (look up Audi TT 2.0 TDI).
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Old 04-07-2010, 01:29 PM
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sure it does, I'm using TECH...go ahead choose any front wheel drive car you'd like

done.

James

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Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

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Old 04-07-2010, 01:36 PM
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First of all, who ever said it DID (represent the "whole")?! I certainly didn't.

What I DID say, it that it's a pretty fair representation of a good number of enthusiasts.

The problem with this is that it is pure speculation. We have no way of knowing that for certain.

Does AVS represent 1% of the worlds enthusiasts? 10%? 20%? We have no idea.

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Old 04-07-2010, 01:50 PM
 
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sure it does, I'm using TECH...go ahead choose any front wheel drive car you'd like

done.

James

You're arguing just for the sake of arguing.

If you don't have anything else to add we are done. I don't have anymore time for childish schoolyard argumentation.

Come back to me when you have tangible data and not pure speculation or annecdotal evidence.
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Old 04-07-2010, 01:55 PM
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^ yeah, I'm arguing by myself. You sir, are the one failing to back your assertions. You have simply discounted this entire survey by supplying the "evidence" that AVS soen't represent every AV enthusiast on earth.

wow, truly introspective.

James

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Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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Old 04-07-2010, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post

The problem with this is that it is pure speculation. We have no way of knowing that for certain.

Does AVS represent 1% of the worlds enthusiasts? 10%? 20%? We have no idea.

duh?

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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Old 04-07-2010, 02:57 PM
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I have to say this is not a good analogy. BMW3 is a much more expensive car than Hyundai Accent so it is not surprising to see that not as many people can afford BMW as Hyundai.
In contrast, Plasma and LCD are priced on the same level. Actually, most of time Plasma TVs are cheaper than same-sized LCD TVs. Some people said LCD TVs sell much more than Plasma TVs just because the majority of sold LCD TVs are < 42 inch while Plasma TVs do not have such sizes. But I suspect even in the larger size area (> 42 inch), LCD TVs still sell more than Plasma TVs. I think it is not an unreasonable claim considering there are many more >42 inch LCD TV purchase options than the same sized Plasma TVs in B&M and online stores. I don't have data to backup my claim but I would love to see any concrete statistics about large screen TVs (> 42 inch) sold in previous years if anyone has it.
Even if my claim holds, by no way I am suggesting LCD is a superior technology to Plasma just because LCD sells more. Just like I said in previous post, people buy whatever appears best to them. Then it will be interesting to find out why people are willing to spend more money to buy LCD instead of Plasma. Of course the answer will not matter if one firmly believes only the elitist has the truth and the average joe's opinion does not count.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I'll give you a hint, it would be like NOT determining a Hyundai Accent is a better-performing automobile over a 3 series BMW based strictly upon the number of units sold, BUT, making the assumption that the BMW is a better performing car based upon a few hundred driving enthusiasts voting that it is (over the Accent).

Why a handful of people cannot make this connection is beyond me.

James

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Old 04-07-2010, 03:20 PM
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duh?

James

I'm glad we're in agreement!

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Old 04-07-2010, 05:05 PM
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The BEST PDP circa April 7th 2010, outperforms the BEST LCD.James

No plasma ever build outperformes the top5 lcd's,you are exaggerating.
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:32 PM
 
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^ yeah, I'm arguing by myself. You sir, are the one failing to back your assertions. You have simply discounted this entire survey by supplying the "evidence" that AVS soen't represent every AV enthusiast on earth.

wow, truly introspective.

James

A poll is supposed to be based on a representative subset of the population.

AVSForum isn't a representative subset of AV enthusiast since by most people definition AVSForum caters mostly to the "elite" AV enthusiast. Your own attitude toward common people demonstrate this.

If you don't use a representative subset then you get a "Fox News" type poll and nothing more.

And in any case, I don't believe you are in any position to say what is or isn't the "best" display. You don't have the authority nor the knowledge to impose your and your pals preference on other AV fan. Because, don't kid yourself, what you are stating about the "perfection" of plasma are just that, your personnal preference. You like the way it work and look.

I on the other hand prefer my LCD and LCDs in general. I'm not forcing you to love them but I won't impose my view of their superiority over you based on some abstract concept as "artistic intent rendering" or "more film like picture".

As for your car analogies, does a car enthousiast without a mullet is a real car enthousiast or is a mullet required? In the same way does an AV enthousiast with a LCD display less an AV enthousiast then one with a PLasma display?
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:48 PM
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^ seems a few college level statistics courses would serve a few well here. First, of course we could NEVER know what % of av enthusiats avs represents. But, crucially, anyone familiar with the power of stats knows it needs NOT to be 50, 40, 30 or even 10% to yield valid data.
Now, since I've maintained that this isn't a scientific survey from the very start, I never maintained we can extract hard numbers.

Still, we CAN deduce some reasonable conclusions, and NONE of them are that PDP voters are voting for PDPs for any other reason other than they offer better performance.
Still though, some insist on trying to prove something that there exists no evidence for.

As for the Hyundai vs BMW analogy, it served it's purpose well, two just missed it. It has nothing to do with cost vs cost...it simply was comparing sales vs performance...that's an imperative distinction to note.

The front wheel drive vs rear wheel was the "methodology/tecnology" analogy, and it ALSO is valid.

The reasons why nearly all critics recognize PDP as the superior tech are simple: they offer more benefits over LCD than vice versa, including superior black levels, no clouding, no flashlighting, superior motion resolution, and better off axis viewing.

LCDs can get brighter, and SOME models are better in extremely bright rooms.

About as straightforward as one can imagine.

But, some will continue to make invalid contentions that hav nothing to do with image superiority and always somehow lean on meaningless (to this poll anyways) points revolving around what the general public purchases, who makes more of what tech, and other non-essential jibberish.

I still laugh at the thought of conducting this identical poll within any "enthusiast" avenue anyone here would like, including installers, print and online media.

I once again would guarantee you the results would mirro/nearly mirror these.

Again prolly a compete coincidence or MORE bias unrepresentative of what enthusiats think offers the superior image.

You simply cannot make this stuff up, LOL.

James

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Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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Old 04-07-2010, 07:51 PM
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No plasma ever build outperformes the top5 lcd's,you are exaggerating.

Absolutely proposterous, inaccurate statement.

But I guess that would just be according to arrogant, elitist air-heads like me who are still waiting for ANY display to all-around out perform a Pioneer Elite...which, oddly enough, is a plasma.

Humorous.

James

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Old 04-07-2010, 08:06 PM
 
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^ seems a few college level statistics courses would serve a few well here. First, of course we could NEVER know what % of av enthusiats avs represents. But, crucially, anyone familiar with the power of stats knows it needs NOT to be 50, 40, 30 or even 10% to yield valid data.
Now, since I've maintained that this isn't a scientific survey from the very start, I never maintained we can extract hard numbers.

Still, we CAN deduce some reasonable conclusions, and NONE of them are that PDP voters are voting for PDPs for any other reason other than they offer better performance.
Still though, some insist on trying to prove something that there exists no evidence for.

As for the Hyundai vs BMW analogy, it served it's purpose well, two just missed it. It has nothing to do with cost vs cost...it simply was comparing sales vs performance...that's an imperative distinction to note.

The front wheel drive vs rear wheel was the "methodology/tecnology" analogy, and it ALSO is valid.

The reasons why nearly all critics recognize PDP as the superior tech are simple: they offer more benefits over LCD than vice versa, including superior black levels, no clouding, no flashlighting, superior motion resolution, and better off axis viewing.

LCDs can get brighter, and SOME models are better in extremely bright rooms.

About as straightforward as one can imagine.

But, some will continue to make invalid contentions that hav nothing to do with image superiority and always somehow lean on meaningless (to this poll anyways) points revolving around what the general public purchases, who makes more of what tech, and other non-essential jibberish.

I still laugh at the thought of conducting this identical poll within any "enthusiast" avenue anyone here would like, including installers, print and online media.

I once again would guarantee you the results would mirro/nearly mirror these.

Again prolly a compete coincidence or MORE bias unrepresentative of what enthusiats think offers the superior image.

You simply cannot make this stuff up, LOL.

James

You sound like somebody who can't stop arguing for nothing and end up repeating the same thing ad nauseam until everybody leaves and then proclaim victory...

In all that waiste of perfect bandwidth you just proved my point.

1- your poll isn't really a poll. It is a buying decision justification.

2- PDP preference or LCD preference are just that PREFERENCE. You like PDP because FOR YOU they work better and give a better picture. That is your personnal PREFERENCE, IT ISN'T FACT!

3- Your car analogy is still off. You are associating the cheapest to LCD and the one that cost more to PDP. It's the other way around. PDP cost less today then LCD for the most part. And less development and engineering is being done on PDP since they are less model being produced.

4- Your "EXPERT" that cites all the LCD defect forget to mention the PDP ones like, IR, BurnIn, Heat, Buzz, Half Life, RBL, ABL... And before you come back to me by saying that your and your friend PDP set have none of those defect let me tell you something: MY LCD and my FRIENDS LCDs don't have any of the defects that your "expert" are citing either. So what are we left with... Personnal preferences.

5- "Image superiority" is a totaly subjective concept. It's only an elitist way of saying you prefer the image produced by your PDP display. It has no basis in fact.
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:11 PM
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[quote=Karmyna;18450187]A poll is supposed to be based on a representative subset of the population.

AVSForum isn't a representative subset of AV enthusiast since by most people definition AVSForum caters mostly to the "elite" AV enthusiast. Your own attitude toward common people demonstrate this.

If you don't use a representative subset then you get a "Fox News" type poll and nothing more.

And in any case, I don't believe you are in any position to say what is or isn't the "best" display. You don't have the authority nor the knowledge to impose your and your pals preference on other AV fan. Because, don't kid yourself, what you are stating about the "perfection" of plasma are just that, your personnal preference. You like the way it work and look."



First of all you know next to nothing about my knowledge nor my preferences.
And, importantly, they have absolutely nothing to do with what I am discussing, which of course is the outcome of this non scientific poll.

Next, you have absolutely no base at all to question whether or not avs is a "representative subset of enthusiasts". You read that? NONE.

Black levels can be MEASURED. Off axis viewing can be verified. Motion resolution can and is MEASURED. Interpolation has been verified to be found nearly unversally undesired.

Get your facts together before you march in here and start baselessly chest-beating about my lack of knowledge and accusing me of being anything outside of actively pursuing the best display/display tech.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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Old 04-07-2010, 08:27 PM
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Just responded right within the quote...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmyna View Post

You sound like somebody who can't stop arguing for nothing and end up repeating the same thing ad nauseam until everybody leaves and then proclaim victory...

...Oh!!! You mean just what you're doing, lol!

In all that waiste of perfect bandwidth you just proved my point.

1- your poll isn't really a poll. It is a buying decision justification.

...It's not MY poll and it's nothing as you described, as it contains MANY just like me who OWN both techs! Please tell me you understand this?

2- PDP preference or LCD preference are just that PREFERENCE. You like PDP because FOR YOU they work better and give a better picture. That is your personnal PREFERENCE, IT ISN'T FACT!

...You clearly do not understand what's going on here by reiterating this "preference vs fact" spiel. Ouch.

3- Your car analogy is still off. You are associating the cheapest to LCD and the one that cost more to PDP. It's the other way around. PDP cost less today then LCD for the most part. And less development and engineering is being done on PDP since they are less model being produced.

...Which one?! It appears you understand neither.

4- Your "EXPERT" that cites all the LCD defect forget to mention the PDP ones like, IR, BurnIn, Heat, Buzz, Half Life, RBL, ABL... And before you come back to me by saying that your and your friend PDP set have none of those defect let me tell you something: MY LCD and my FRIENDS LCDs don't have any of the defects that your "expert" are citing either. So what are we left with... Personnal preferences.

....Seriously. Heat? Buzz? Virtually non existent burn in, and at worst, temprary IR?! Right. See the much, much, much more observable and verified LCD cracks. Good grief

5- "Image superiority" is a totaly subjective concept. It's only an elitist way of saying you prefer the image produced by your PDP display. It has no basis in fact.

...I've already attempted to explain to you that MUCH of it is measurable.

But Im certain you'll tell me and the experts that we're crazy.

Wow.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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Old 04-07-2010, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post


Black levels can be MEASURED. Off axis viewing can be verified. Motion resolution can and is MEASURED. Interpolation has been verified to be found nearly unversally undesired.

Whoa! Hold your horses there pardner!

This is an inaccurate statement as there are plenty of people, even here on AVS who say they like (some even say love) Frame Interpolation. I believe this statement must be stricken from the record.

Stand tall and shake the heavens...
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Old 04-08-2010, 05:47 AM
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Anyone who thinks this poll is not a poll should think about their involvement in this forum.

It is a poll open to all members of AVS and is only being written about in AVS and is representative of AVS members. Nothing more nothing less.

Everything else written back and forth here is individual views / preferences / and even sometimes facts that are not relevant to the simple poll.

If I went to a Toyota forum and polled their satisfaction with their car I am sure it would be much higher than if I polled the general population on ESPN's website.

Either way both are polls and arguing against that is insane. One is a poll of Toyota Forum users and the other is a poll of ESPN users.

Some will say the Toyota poll is useless / biased and other will say it is a better representation because they are the users (experts so to speak) of Toyota's product. OK to each their own. In any event it is a poll that shows AVS Forum users have a preference. Use (or do not use) that information however you see fit.
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Old 04-08-2010, 07:13 AM
 
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[quote=mastermaybe;18450383]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karmyna View Post

A poll is supposed to be based on a representative subset of the population.

AVSForum isn't a representative subset of AV enthusiast since by most people definition AVSForum caters mostly to the "elite" AV enthusiast. Your own attitude toward common people demonstrate this.

If you don't use a representative subset then you get a "Fox News" type poll and nothing more.

And in any case, I don't believe you are in any position to say what is or isn't the "best" display. You don't have the authority nor the knowledge to impose your and your pals preference on other AV fan. Because, don't kid yourself, what you are stating about the "perfection" of plasma are just that, your personnal preference. You like the way it work and look."



First of all you know next to nothing about my knowledge nor my preferences.
And, importantly, they have absolutely nothing to do with what I am discussing, which of course is the outcome of this non scientific poll.

Next, you have absolutely no base at all to question whether or not avs is a "representative subset of enthusiasts". You read that? NONE.

Black levels can be MEASURED. Off axis viewing can be verified. Motion resolution can and is MEASURED. Interpolation has been verified to be found nearly unversally undesired.

Get your facts together before you march in here and start baselessly chest-beating about my lack of knowledge and accusing me of being anything outside of actively pursuing the best display/display tech.

James

Take your ritalin buddy.

Black level can be measured: Yes they can and guess what, my LCD as better or equal black level than most PDP if not all. It does go below black level.

Off Axis: This is a personnal preference not a deal breaker. The majority of people watch TV sitting in front of it, especially in a dedicated HT room like real AV enthousiast are bound to have.

Interpolation: I LOVE interpolation. Plenty of people complaining about it have never really used the damn function or even own a display that has that capability. I know I was one of them before buying my new 60", but now I just love it. Again you are projecting your own value set on other.

I have every base to question wether or not AVS is a representative subset of the AV enthousiast because I'm a member on this forum and a thinking, rational, human being. You should always question the motive of people you interact with unless you are a drone.

You on the other hand are not an AVSForum moderator so maybe you should refrain from trying to impose rules or intention on this forum.

As for me questionning your knowledge (or lack thereoff) and preference... You started it quite early in this thread with me. You are aggressive and seem to be looking for a fight. Maybe you should put me on ignore if you don't like what I'm saying instead of acting in a trollish fashion.
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Old 04-08-2010, 07:29 AM
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^ Good luck trying to get a few to understand that.

See, what's going on here is abundantly clear:

The poll has yielded an outcome that's unsettling to a good many. So, they're attempting to invalidate it by raising, honestly, bizarre hurdles to it. These have included:

1. Claiming LCD is superior because LCD out sells plasma.
2. Maintaining that AVS doesn't uniformly represent the AV enthusiast community.
3. Purporting that AVS is unfairly biased in the corner of PDPs.

There's more, but why bother? The above three are either not supported by logic (3), fact (2), or are completely irrelevant (1).

Of course the largest elephant (there's more than one) in the room is the reality that the OVERWHELMING majority that have owned BOTH techs PREFER plasma.

Some simply will not accept this.

Last, it wouldn't matter HOW this poll was conducted (even though I'm confident the outcome would be the same).

1. If we decided WHO the most critical viewers were together, some would STILL refute the outcome. Picking out critical viewers is an important point because most (not all) Americans simply do not care enough about the issue to view critically...give them the HDTV that's on sale and they're set. This has been proven by inferior-performing sets (objectively measured) out-pacing superior units in sales...largely based upon price. YES, this goes on in LCD vs LCD wars.

2. Even if 99% of the above list yielded an outcome of PDP, a good number would still maintain LCDs superiority based upon the assumption that people "buy what they like" and therefore lcd must be perform better.

Of course history tells us that people choose badly...be it politicians, cars, or televisions. I've done it myself...many times with fashion, lol. Handily, an area I do not know a terrible amount about.

Pro and con arguments based upon myths and simply inaccurate "facts" are unbelievably powerful factors in swaying public opinion. The aforementioned certainly didn't help my fashion selections because I simply wasn't nearly aware as I needed to be.

If you don't think the same applies to TV's, you're crazy. In defense of PDP, the mythology/misinformation regarding its design/performance/longevity/reliability/etc is about as deep as ANY product/tech I can recall. Walk into a bestbuy and just listen to salesperson or customer. A good sum of what you'll hear will sound like me talking about fashion...


James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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