Black level measurements of recent LCDs and Plasmas....ENJOY! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 209 Old 05-19-2010, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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After searching (and not finding) a list of black levels for recent popular flat panel TVs, I figured I would make a handy list of my own that others could use too

I compiled measurements from various online reviews which I list beside the TV



Pioneer Plasma


4280(avsforum) 0.007fL
5080(avsforum) 0.006fL
5010(avsforum) 0.004fL
PRO 110(avsforum) 0.004fL
6020 (avsforum) 0.001fL
PRO 111 (avsforum) 0.001fL
PRO 101 (avsforum) 0.0005fL
PRO 141 (avsforum) 0.001fL
KRP 500M (avsforum) 0.0005fL



Panasonic Plasma


TC-42PX80(flatpanelshd) 0.037fL
TH-50PZ800U(Tom Huffman) 0.015fL
TC-P54V10(chadB) 0.007fL
G10(flatpanelshd) 0.0087fL
S2(chadB) 0.009fL
G20(chadB) 0.0083fL
50VT20(hdtvtest.co.uk) 0.0026fL
TH-65VX100U(hometheatermag) 0.005fL




Samsung Plasma


PN58B650(Tom Huffman) 0.012fL
PN50B860(hometheatermag) 0.020fL
PN50C7000(chadB) 0.026fL
PN58C8000(avsforum) 0.016fL
PN63C550(chadB) 0.011fL



Samsung LCD


LN55A950(hometheatermag) 0.003fL
LN52A750(Tom Huffman) 0.02fL
LN55B8000(Tom Huffman) 0.004fL
LN55B7000(hometheatermag) 0.002fL
UN55B8500(hometheatermag) 0.001fL
UNxxC5000(Tom Huffman) 0.006fL
UN40C6000(flatpanelshd) 0.0145fL
UN46C8000(hometheatermag) 0.001fL
UN40C650(hdtvtest.co.uk) 0.0086fL



LG Plasma


50PG60(hometheatermag) 0.033fL
60PS80(hometheatermag) 0.023fL
50PK550(chadB) 0.0132fL
50PK750(chadB) 0.026fL
50PK950(flatpanelshd) 0.0116fL



LG LCD


55LE8500(flatpanelshd) <0.0058fL
47LH90(hometheatermag) 0.001fL
SL80(flatpanelshd) 0.04fL
42LH40(hometheatermag) 0.022fL


SONY LCD


52XBR4(hometheatermag) 0.029fL
Z5100(flatpanelhd) 0.0145fL
W5100(hdtvtest.co.uk) 0.0146 fL
NX700(flatpanelhd) 0.0145fL
XBR8(hometheatermag) 0.001fL



Sharp LCD


LC46D85U(hometheatermag) 0.037fL
LC52XS1U(hometheatermag) 0.001fL
LC-60E77UN(hometheatermag) 0.010fL
LE820(flatpanelshd) 0.0116fL



Toshiba LCD


46SV670U(hometheatermag) <0.001
52XV545U(hometheatermag) 0.013fL
42ZV650U(hometheatermag) 0.039fL


Vizio LCD&Plasma


VP505XVT(hometheatermag) 0.014fL
VF550XVT(hometheatermag) 0.029fL
SV420M(hometheatermag) 0.024fL
VF551XVT(hometheatermag) 0.002fL


http://hdtvbychadb.com/reviews.htm
http://www.hometheatermag.com/3d-flat-panels/
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/reviews.php
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk
http://www.displaycalibrationonline.com/reviews.asp


Here is a calculator to convert between candelas/square meter and foot-lamberts.VVVVV
http://www.unitconversion.org/lumina...onversion.html

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post #2 of 209 Old 05-19-2010, 07:47 PM
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Thank you for posting this information all in one place. You might have mistyped one of the measurements and left out a 0, as I believe that Chad measured the Panasonic G20 at 0.0083 fL. Thanks again.
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post #3 of 209 Old 05-19-2010, 08:27 PM
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Thanks.....Good Job!
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post #4 of 209 Old 05-19-2010, 11:06 PM
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Very nice. I am watching my new 101fd right now. Had it running five days now. .0005 huh? No way they are that high. Looks more like .0000005

The 101 is soooo very nice!!!
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post #5 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 12:22 AM
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Whats the difference between FL and cd/m^2 measurements? Your list says that FlatpanelsHD has the G10 with a measured .0087 black level. I went to FlatpanelsHD and looked everywhere. The only time they mentioned the black level reading was with a measurement of .03cd/m2. There was no mention of an updated measurement taken after voltage increase either.
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post #6 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony6225 View Post

Whats the difference between FL and cd/m^2 measurements?

I don't know the exact conversion but FL seems to be the American measurement and cd/m^2 seems to be the European measurement of idle luminance. Check out this link for conversions.

http://www.unitconversion.org/lumina...onversion.html

The 101 is soooo very nice!!!
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post #7 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 12:43 AM
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That explains it. Thanks.
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post #8 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLee View Post

After searching (and not finding) a list of black levels for recent popular flat panel TVs, I figured I would make a handy list of my own that others could use too

I compiled measurements from various online reviews which I list beside the TV



Pioneer Plasma


4280(avsforum) 0.007fL
5080(avsforum) 0.006fL
5010(avsforum) 0.004fL
PRO 110(avsforum) 0.004fL
6020 (avsforum) 0.001fL
PRO 111 (avsforum) 0.001fL
PRO 101 (avsforum) 0.0005fL
PRO 141 (avsforum) 0.001fL
KRP 500M (avsforum) 0.0005fL



Panasonic Plasma


TC-42PX80(flatpanelshd) 0.037fL
TC-P54V10(chadB) 0.007fL
G10(flatpanelshd) 0.0087fL
S2(chadB) 0.09fL
G20(chadB) 0.083fL
TH-65VX100U(hometheatermag) 0.005fL



SONY LCD


52XBR4(hometheatermag) 0.029fL
Z5100(flatpanelhd) 0.0145fL
W5100(flatpanelshd) 0.026fL
NX700(flatpanelhd) 0.0145fL
XBR8(hometheatermag) 0.001fL



Sharp LCD


LC46D85U(hometheatermag) 0.037fL
LC52XS1U(hometheatermag) 0.001fL
LC-60E77UN(hometheatermag) 0.010fL
LE820(flatpanelshd) 0.0116fL



Samsung LCD


LN55A950(hometheatermag) 0.003fL
LN55B7000(hometheatermag) 0.002fL
LN40C6000(flatpanelshd) 0.0145fL
UN55B8500(hometheatermag) 0.001fL
UN46C8000(hometheatermag) 0.001fL


Samsung Plasma

PN50C7000(chadB) 0.026fL
PN50B860(hometheatermag) 0.020fL



LG Plasma


50PG60(hometheatermag) 0.033fL
60PS80(hometheatermag) 0.023fL
50PK550(chadB) 0.0132fL
50PK750(chadB) 0.026fL
50PK950(flatpanelshd) 0.0116fL



LG LCD


55LE8500(flatpanelshd) <0.0058fL
47LH90(hometheatermag) 0.001fL
SL80(flatpanelshd) 0.04fL
42LH40(hometheatermag) 0.022fL



Toshiba LCD


46SV670U(hometheatermag) <0.001
52XV545U(hometheatermag) 0.013fL
42ZV650U(hometheatermag) 0.039fL


Vizio LCD&Plasma


VP505XVT(hometheatermag) 0.014fL
VF550XVT(hometheatermag) 0.029fL
SV420M(hometheatermag) 0.024fL
VF551XVT(hometheatermag) 0.002fL


http://hdtvbychadb.com/reviews.htm
http://www.hometheatermag.com/3d-flat-panels/
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/reviews.php


Thanks for this. You need to add another 0 to the Panasonic G20/S2 measurements from Chad B.
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post #9 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 02:08 AM
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how can the panasonic g20 be lighter in blacks then sony LCD's. I think these measurements are flawed
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post #10 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 02:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laststop311 View Post

how can the panasonic g20 be lighter in blacks then sony LCD's. I think these measurements are flawed

I left out a "0" in the S2 and G20s measurements....they are fixed now
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post #11 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 02:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Also added the Sammy 58C8000 plasma measurements from the settings thread
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post #12 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 02:30 AM
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So 4 of the samsung LCD TV's have lower blacks than the pioneer kuros? These measurements can't be right. hometheatermag is smokin some really good stuff. Had to of been to come up wit those numbers.
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post #13 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 02:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laststop311 View Post

So 4 of the samsung LCD TV's have lower blacks than the pioneer kuros? These measurements can't be right. hometheatermag is smokin some really good stuff. Had to of been to come up wit those numbers.

Two of those TVs, the A950 and the B8500 are highly regarded local dimming LCDs (along with the Sony XBR8)....

These tvs have a massive following precisley because they have super dark black levels and it shouldn't surprise anyone that they MEASURE as good as a Kuro(notice I didn't say they PERFORMED as well as a Kuro)....the other two are edge LEDs but the C8000 should also measure very dark with its quasi-local "pinpoint dimming" feature


PS I also added the Panny VT20 to the list...check out the number
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post #14 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 05:59 AM
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Curious as to what the B650 measures as I've read everything from 0.013 to 0.022
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post #15 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLee View Post

I left out a "0" in the S2 and G20s measurements....they are fixed now

You should also move the Samsung and LG PLASMA TVs up so they're located below the Panasonics, instead of burying them in the LCD section

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post #16 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laststop311 View Post

hometheatermag is smokin some really good stuff.

seems so, having the C8000 the same as the B8500 lol
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post #17 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laststop311 View Post

So 4 of the samsung LCD TV's have lower blacks than the pioneer kuros? These measurements can't be right. hometheatermag is smokin some really good stuff. Had to of been to come up wit those numbers.

My thoughts exactly. .002FL for a B7000? Doesnt sound right at all to me.
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post #18 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 11:22 AM
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That's because those LCDs are able to completely shut off all backlight for a full black screen, which is what is used for those measurements. However, when faced with a real picture the blacks and shadow definition are a different story.

Don't get caught thinking that these numbers are the be all and end all of good picture quality.
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post #19 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiestilgar View Post

That's because those LCDs are able to completely shut off all backlight for a full black screen, which is what is used for those measurements.


You'd have thought a dedicated home theatre mag wouldn't make such an amateur mistake.

Actually, no, you wouldn't.
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post #20 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 11:43 AM
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hdtvtest.co.uk measured the 40" C650 non-led model w/o any dimming technique to have 0.03 cd/m^2 black level (0.0086 fL). That's good for a midrange LCD.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsu...0100506527.htm

(snippet: )

The Samsung LE40C650's black level is incredibly deep for an LCD TV, and serves as a stark reminder that not all SPVA LCD panels are built equal. The effects of the high quality LCD panel and the glossy coating, which Samsung refers to as Ultra Clear Panel, are readily apparent in the image when compared to several competing LCDs. Samsung's display has, for an LCD, an exceptional amount of contrast and perceived depth.
We measured the calibrated black level on the Samsung LE40C650 HDTV to be a deep 0.03 cd/m2. This is a fantastic result which is in line with the best (non-local-dimming) LCD TVs we've reviewed, and it means that even in a darkened room, Samsung's TV produces satisfying blacks

I want my next TV to have "smell the glove"-blacklevel. I got me an st50 and I think I can smell some leather in a not too far away distance somewhere.
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post #21 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

You should also move the Samsung and LG PLASMA TVs up so they're located below the Panasonics, instead of burying them in the LCD section

Noted and fixed
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post #22 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiestilgar View Post

That's because those LCDs are able to completely shut off all backlight for a full black screen, which is what is used for those measurements. However, when faced with a real picture the blacks and shadow definition are a different story.

Don't get caught thinking that these numbers are the be all and end all of good picture quality.

I was talking about the B7000 and C8000 models in particular.
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post #23 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 01:10 PM
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hdtvtest.co.uk measured the black level of 40W5500 (same as W5100 series in US) as 0.05 cd/m^2 black level (0.0146 fL), which is lower than flatpanelshd's measurement of 0.026 fl. You might want to add this extra information as well.
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post #24 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 02:47 PM
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Strange how hdtvtest got a .0017 fL black level for the VT20. I have no reason to doubt the measurement since they are extremely reliable, but it's quite a bit lower than the .004 fL we've been seeing so far.
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post #25 of 209 Old 05-20-2010, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alucard3 View Post
P50VT20

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panas...0100520694.htm

And from the body of this review:

"The question on everyone’s minds, of course, will be whether or not the new NeoPDP panel can match or even exceed the deep blacks produced by the discontinued Pioneer KURO displays when viewed in an entirely dark environment. The answer to that is: very nearly. The Panasonic TX-P50VT20’s black level measured at an astonishingly deep 0.006 cd/m2, making it the deepest that Panasonic has ever produced, albeit minutely higher than Pioneer’s best (which we measured at 0.003 cd/m2)..."

I believe the .006 cd/m2 converts to .002 ftL. If this figure is confirmed for the US models as an average, then even assuming tripling of the MLL over the first 3000 or so hours, the black level and contrast ratio performance will be reasonable. I have noted that other early reviews of the VT series have not reported such a low black/MLL level.

Wes Sokolosky
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post #26 of 209 Old 05-22-2010, 06:58 PM
 
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You can add the PN63C550 at 0.011 to Samsung plasma lineup.
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post #27 of 209 Old 05-22-2010, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hduong22 View Post

You can add the PN63C550 at 0.011 to Samsung plasma lineup.

If you would give me a link, I would be happy to include it...

That is a really low number.....lower even, than the more expensive PNxC8000 plasma......could this be another situation like the LG PK550 being superior to the more expensive PK750?


I also added the Samsung C650, btw
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post #28 of 209 Old 05-23-2010, 02:01 AM
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A question from a newbe.

As we all know,the TV manufacturers specify the contrast ratio of their sets useing figures like 100,000:1(which is pretty low for todays models)to the highest I have seen which is 9,000,000:1 for a LG LE8500.

Here are two examples of TVs with a contrast ratio of 5,000.000:1,or so the companies claim.

Panasonic G20 the black level is said to be .0083(I know before the dreaded rise)

Samsung C7000 the black level is said to be .026

What is the relationship of contrast ratio and measured black levels?I thought the higher the contrast ratio the better the black levels should be.
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post #29 of 209 Old 05-23-2010, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post

A question from a newbe.

As we all know,the TV manufacturers specify the contrast ratio of their sets useing figures like 100,000:1(which is pretty low for todays models)to the highest I have seen which is 9,000,000:1 for a LG LE8500.

Here are two examples of TVs with a contrast ratio of 5,000.000:1,or so the companies claim.

Panasonic G20 the black level is said to be .0083(I know before the dreaded rise)

Samsung C7000 the black level is said to be .026

What is the relationship of contrast ratio and measured black levels?I thought the higher the contrast ratio the better the black levels should be.

Manufacturers have always been advertising contrast ratios and after years of it, its gotten pretty out of control. They all throw out higher numbers trying to one-up each other and in the end its all bs. There is no industry standard for measuring contrast ratios, so you can ignore their advertised numbers and rely on credible reviewers to give you the scoop.
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post #30 of 209 Old 05-23-2010, 04:07 AM
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Here is the link for the Samsung PN63C550:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post18673258
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