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post #3631 of 3692 Old 03-11-2014, 09:01 AM
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Here is a short interview with British Cinematographer Geoff Boyle where he talks about resolution,RAW, compression and the future resolution of cinema.
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post #3632 of 3692 Old 03-13-2014, 08:04 AM
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"Samsung Electronics, the world’s largest television maker, introduced the world’s first curved ultrahigh-definition TV in Seoul on Thursday.

The company said it would target consumers with HD TVs by prioritizing its marketing of 55- and 65-inch curved UHD TVs and 50-inch flat UHD TVs
"

I guess I mi$$ed it but can anyone explain why OLED manufacturers are producing curved rather than flat panel displays?
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post #3633 of 3692 Old 03-13-2014, 12:24 PM
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"Samsung Electronics, the world’s largest television maker, introduced the world’s first curved ultrahigh-definition TV in Seoul on Thursday.
The company said it would target consumers with HD TVs by prioritizing its marketing of 55- and 65-inch curved UHD TVs and 50-inch flat UHD TVs
"
I guess I mi$$ed it but can anyone explain why OLED manufacturers are producing curved rather than flat panel displays?

Marketing 101: Product differentiation to catch consumer attention:D

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post #3634 of 3692 Old 03-13-2014, 03:27 PM
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Marketing 101: Product differentiation to catch consumer attention:D

I've read that supposition along these threads before but thought there must be something more to the rational for producing a curved display.

The problem with the product differentiation approach for old dogs like me, among those affluent enough to spend $10K for a TV, the whole curved phenomena just to be different does nothing to positively influence my purchase decision.
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post #3635 of 3692 Old 03-14-2014, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

I've read that supposition along these threads before but thought there must be something more to the rational for producing a curved display. The problem with the product differentiation approach for old dogs like me, among those affluent enough to spend $10K for a TV, the whole curved phenomena just to be different does nothing to positively influence my purchase decision.

At this point, the question is not really about selling since the number of affluent consumers like you ready to splurge heaps of money on such TV is microscopic. It is about marketing the word "OLED" against "LCD" as something distinctive since consumers tend to classify them both as "flat panels". This is enhanced by the fact that some LCDs are marketed as LED. So now OLED is 'curved' while others are 'flat' and that makes them distinct. By such marketing OLED will become imprinted in minds as something different so later when flat OLEDs come they will be seen as different too. All this may sound shallow and crazy but remember marketing aims to influence via subconsciousness and marketing people know a lot how to manipulate it cool.gif

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post #3636 of 3692 Old 03-14-2014, 09:21 AM
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You're probably right, but except for my wife and only because I let her, it is nearly impossible to manipulate an old fool like me. wink.gif
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post #3637 of 3692 Old 03-17-2014, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

I've read that supposition along these threads before but thought there must be something more to the rational for producing a curved display. The problem with the product differentiation approach for old dogs like me, among those affluent enough to spend $10K for a TV, the whole curved phenomena just to be different does nothing to positively influence my purchase decision.

At this point, the question is not really about selling since the number of affluent consumers like you ready to splurge heaps of money on such TV is microscopic. It is about marketing the word "OLED" against "LCD" as something distinctive since consumers tend to classify them both as "flat panels". This is enhanced by the fact that some LCDs are marketed as LED. So now OLED is 'curved' while others are 'flat' and that makes them distinct. By such marketing OLED will become imprinted in minds as something different so later when flat OLEDs come they will be seen as different too. All this may sound shallow and crazy but remember marketing aims to influence via subconsciousness and marketing people know a lot how to manipulate it cool.gif

I thought that Samsung had introduce a curved LED/LCD this year (UNHU9000): http://ces.cnet.com/8301-35303_1-57616606/samsungs-ces-2014-tvs-curved-and-4k-leds-but-no-new-oled-or-plasma/

UNHU9000 series:
Curved 4K The most expensive TV in Samsung's main lineup is curved, with 4K resolution, real (albeit edge-lit) local dimming and plenty of doodads -- including the One Connect upgrade box and quad-split-screen action.
Sizes: 78, 65, and 55 inches
First availability: April

So if LED/LCDs are 'getting the curve' as well, what does it all mean??? 'Curved=high-end=expensive=out-of-reach-for-most'???
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post #3638 of 3692 Old 03-17-2014, 11:46 PM
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^You are right and not only this since Samsung demonstrated at the CES flexicurved TV, one can change it from flat to variably curved with remote. Since it is unlikely curved LCD is going ot make any significant sales this can not be driven by economics. I see two explanations: 1. They will do whatevet is possible to do just because it is doable 2. Samsung is trying to keep LG big appetite on dominating OLED and brand promotion of its curved OLEDs by telling "curved OLED? it's not so exclusive, we have curved LCD".

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post #3639 of 3692 Old 03-17-2014, 11:47 PM
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^You are right and not only this since Samsung demonstrated at the CES flexicurved TV, one can change it from flat to variably curved with remote. Since it is unlikely curved LCD is going ot make any significant sales this can not be driven by economics. I see two explanations: 1. They will do whatevet is possible to do just because it is doable 2. Samsung is trying to keep LG big appetite on dominating OLED and brand promotion of its curved OLEDs by telling "curved OLED? it's not so exclusive, we have curved LCD".

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post #3640 of 3692 Old 03-18-2014, 06:31 AM
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^^^wow.  deja-vu.  :)  (2 posts)

 

I've said the exact same thing before: there's a "we can too" problem in marketing.  Can't let a new technology appear to be only doable by the competitor.  No matter how ridiculous it is apparently.


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post #3641 of 3692 Old 03-18-2014, 01:22 PM
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^^^wow.  deja-vu.  smile.gif  (2 posts)

I've said the exact same thing before: there's a "we can too" problem in marketing.  Can't let a new technology appear to be only doable by the competitor.  No matter how ridiculous it is apparently.

I suppose we could call that 'the Lemming Factor"...
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post #3642 of 3692 Old 03-19-2014, 06:43 AM
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Another option is leaving the dying big dsplay concept and moving to a modern portable 4K biggrin.gif.

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post #3643 of 3692 Old 03-21-2014, 07:16 AM
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Samsung_20th Century Fox Alliance offers consumers a variety of UHD content through Samsung's UHD TVs.
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post #3644 of 3692 Old 04-02-2014, 01:21 PM
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NHK to Demonstrate 8K Video Transmission Over a Single TV Channel at NAB Labs Futures Park
Pioneering wireless demo will be first outside Japan


Japanese public broadcaster NHK will present the latest iteration of its Super Hi-Vision system at the 2014 NAB Show, including a closed-circuit demonstration of over-the-air transmission of 8K content in a single 6 MHz UHF TV channel. The demonstration will be presented at the NAB Labs Futures Park, April 7-10 in Las Vegas.

This will be the first time anywhere in the world outside Japan that wireless transmission of 8K Super Hi-Vision has been demonstrated over a single 6 MHz TV channel.

NHK will also present detailed results of a long-distance, single-channel, over-the-air 8K test broadcast recently conducted in Japan.

In addition, the NHK exhibit will feature a presentation theater with a 350-inch screen for viewing newly shot Super Hi-Vision content with 8K video projection and full 22.2-channel sound reproduction, including highlights from the Sochi Winter Olympic Games.

Progress in the increasing practicality of Super Hi-Vision systems will also be demonstrated, including an 8K video camera that weighs less than 4.5 lbs (2 kg), the world's first 8K-capable real-time HEVC encoder, and a display-integrated immersive sound system providing virtual representation of 22.2-channel sound for a domestic environment.
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post #3645 of 3692 Old 04-02-2014, 09:41 PM
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How big does a wall have to be from floor to ceiling to have a 350 inch screen in a house?

Can two human ears discern all the different directions that 22 channel sound is coming from?

This is getting to the point of the ultimate trip!

If you think that LCD sucks would 350 inches of it kill you?

I better stay away if its LCD!!!
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post #3646 of 3692 Old 04-04-2014, 04:53 AM
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Forget all this, hopefully a device like the Oculus Rift will take us where we are all trying to get to-total sound and video immersion.

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post #3647 of 3692 Old 04-04-2014, 06:06 AM
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Forget all this, hopefully a device like the Oculus Rift will take us where we are all trying to get to-total sound and video immersion.
Except even if it produced a great picture for each eye, in 3D, it wouldn't be at the correct distance and so it wouldn't be like in real life (where you should have objects at many different distances from the eyes) and would likely not be as easy to watch as normal HDTV. And it probably won't be fast enough at redrawing the picture when you move. There's also the big problem of lack of film/video content - even if it was a 2D 360 degree view (ie. not a 3D or polygon/3D volume type video).
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UHD rollout timetable at NAB 2014 AVS thread

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post #3649 of 3692 Old 04-14-2014, 05:22 AM
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UHD rollout timetable at NAB 2014 AVS thread

It's my understanding that HDMI 2.0 only supports 4K at up to 60 frames per second.

Does this mean that if Phase 2 becomes standardised at 120 Hz in only four years' time the 4K TV sets released this year boasting HDMI 2.0 will be obsolete, and unable to cope?

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post #3650 of 3692 Old 04-14-2014, 07:52 AM
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i would wait till TVs have phase 2 specs.

The 2014 Vizio can do 120 fps
.http://store.vizio.com/news/ces-2014-vizio-debuts-4k-120-inch-120-fps-and-local-dimming-hdtvs
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post #3651 of 3692 Old 04-14-2014, 07:59 AM
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It's my understanding that HDMI 2.0 only supports 4K at up to 60 frames per second.
Does this mean that if Phase 2 becomes standardised at 120 Hz in only four years' time the 4K TV sets released this year boasting HDMI 2.0 will be obsolete, and unable to cope?
They should be able to display the content, but only at 60fps rather than 120. I don't know that I would call them "obsolete" - but then the people behind these standards seem to be phasing them out in such a way that encourages people to replace displays they own which are perfectly fine as they are.

Does 4K video automatically make 1080p displays "obsolete" too?
Or can you be happy with the improvements that a 4K native source brings, even on a 1080p display?

Looking at that information just makes me think I will stick with my current display for longer, rather than buy a 4K OLED.
If native 120Hz support is planned, that's definitely something worth waiting for as a PC gamer.
I don't know that I would care about 120Hz support otherwise though - the majority of content is still going to be 24 or 30fps.
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If native 120Hz support is planned, that's definitely something worth waiting for as a PC gamer.
I don't know that I would care about 120Hz support otherwise though - the majority of content is still going to be 24 or 30fps.
For video content for anything currently interlaced (50i or 60i) aren't they/shouldn't they de-interlace a lot if it to 50 fps or 60 fps, if there isn't going to be an interlaced option in HEVC (or it's not optimsed for interlaced so they want everything in progressive)? Plus there's already 60 fps in the US at 720p.
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post #3653 of 3692 Old 04-14-2014, 08:28 AM
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For video content for anything currently interlaced (50i or 60i) aren't they/shouldn't they de-interlace a lot if it to 50 fps or 60 fps, if there isn't going to be an interlaced option in HEVC (or it's not optimsed for interlaced so they want everything in progressive)? Plus there's already 60 fps in the US at 720p.
I suppose if you're watching broadcast, sports might be 60i rather than 30PsF, but most content today is progressive. The majority is 24 or 30fps.
Even so, that would be unaffected by displays adding 120Hz support, and I don't know why anything HEVC encoded would be interlaced.
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I suppose if you're watching broadcast, sports might be 60i rather than 30PsF, but most content today is progressive. The majority is 24 or 30fps.
Even so, that would be unaffected by displays adding 120Hz support, and I don't know why anything HEVC encoded would be interlaced.
Do you have any links which show the majority of 60i content is 30PsF or is that a guess?

I was saying any interlaced content would have to be converted first to progressive (eg. 50/60) because of the lack of proper interlaced encoding in HEVC. The reason the content might be interlaced to start with is because all current systems (at least here) output interlaced to the consumer and there's lots of interlaced content which they're not all going to throw away in a couple of years time if they decide to start broadcasting with HEVC. So there will likely be a gradual transition, especially where they are incorporating footage/showing content shot before 2016 or before they got the progressive-only cameras/other studio equipment.
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Looking at that information just makes me think I will stick with my current display for longer, rather than buy a 4K OLED.
If native 120Hz support is planned, that's definitely something worth waiting for as a PC gamer.
I don't know that I would care about 120Hz support otherwise though - the majority of content is still going to be 24 or 30fps.

Looking at the UHD rollout table, it seems one might be advised to hold off buying a new set until 2020. However, I don't think my CRT will last that long, or my patience - I've probably got another 12 to 18 months, tops.

I'd kinda settled on holding on to see the LG 4K sets, with HDMI 2.0. However, I'm now reading about how 1080p upscaled onto a 4K display might actually look INFERIOR to how it would appear on a native 1080p panel.

I guess things are heading towards 4K regardless, and if I want anything bigger than 55" in an OLED then I've got no option, but I'd hate to find myself stuck with a 'fudge' that's neither satisfyingly one thing nor another because I bought at the wrong time. :-(

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post #3656 of 3692 Old 04-14-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Looking at that information just makes me think I will stick with my current display for longer, rather than buy a 4K OLED.
If native 120Hz support is planned, that's definitely something worth waiting for as a PC gamer.
I don't know that I would care about 120Hz support otherwise though - the majority of content is still going to be 24 or 30fps.

Looking at the UHD rollout table, it seems one might be advised to hold off buying a new set until 2020. However, I don't think my CRT will last that long, or my patience - I've probably got another 12 to 18 months, tops.

I'd kinda settled on holding on to see the LG 4K sets, with HDMI 2.0. However, I'm now reading about how 1080p upscaled onto a 4K display might actually look INFERIOR to how it would appear on a native 1080p panel.

I guess things are heading towards 4K regardless, and if I want anything bigger than 55" in an OLED then I've got no option, but I'd hate to find myself stuck with a 'fudge' that's neither satisfyingly one thing nor another because I bought at the wrong time. :-(

Desk

That's nonsense - you can always use a distortion-free 2x2 'block mode' to get 1080p scaled up to 4K with no change in effective pixel output and less SDE and 720p also upscales to 4K in a distortion-free 3x3 block mode which is not possible when it upscales to 1080p.
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I'd kinda settled on holding on to see the LG 4K sets, with HDMI 2.0. However, I'm now reading about how 1080p upscaled onto a 4K display might actually look INFERIOR to how it would appear on a native 1080p panel.

 

The only times I read any hint of anything about inferior quality, it had either to do with 4K viewing of an overcompressed 4K source (I believe it was one of Geoffrey Morrison's articles), or with observations here about original resolutions being what you want for gaming/monitor use.

 

That thing you're reading; do you have a link to it?


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post #3658 of 3692 Old 04-14-2014, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Desk. 

Looking at the UHD rollout table, it seems one might be advised to hold off buying a new set until 2020. However, I don't think my CRT will last that long, or my patience - I've probably got another 12 to 18 months, tops.

I'd kinda settled on holding on to see the LG 4K sets, with HDMI 2.0. However, I'm now reading about how 1080p upscaled onto a 4K display might actually look INFERIOR to how it would appear on a native 1080p panel.

I guess things are heading towards 4K regardless, and if I want anything bigger than 55" in an OLED then I've got no option, but I'd hate to find myself stuck with a 'fudge' that's neither satisfyingly one thing nor another because I bought at the wrong time. :-(

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There is also the content. Sony 4k movie stuff is only available for Sony 4K TVs, same with Samsung. I don't know about LG..
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There is also the content. Sony 4k movie stuff is only available for Sony 4K TVs, same with Samsung. I don't know about LG..
If there is a UHD1 rollout in 2015/2016 for the first version of it (50/60 fps), I'm sure there will be content then, depending on where you are (broadcast) and there should be Blu-ray 4K/HFR etc. well before 2020 (eg. looks like it could be at end of 2015 now not end of 2014). There could also be 4K via online (there's already 4K youtube clips at low fps).
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post #3660 of 3692 Old 04-15-2014, 08:25 AM
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That's nonsense - you can always use a distortion-free 2x2 'block mode' to get 1080p scaled up to 4K with no change in effective pixel output and less SDE and 720p also upscales to 4K in a distortion-free 3x3 block mode which is not possible when it upscales to 1080p.

It is not true block upscaling is distortion-free, that is against theory of digital signal processing. Practically it means jaggies at edges as one of the main distortions.

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