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OLED Technology and Flat Panels General > Future of pdp is grimm?
chunon's Avatar chunon 03:50 PM 08-26-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Heh heh, i see i'm not the only one who suspect this

When XxHoosierDaddy got himself banned for repeatedly attacking several of us, he came back as Nobl3 the very same day then got banned again about a month later, then came back as xxxManSucker and immediately spewed some disgusting pornographic gay insults against myself and AVS forums when i exposed him and he got banned the same day after only two posts.

This has to be the same guy. Same type of posts, same posting style, same kind of adversarial topics, same personality, same vendetta against Panasonic and anyone who defends them.

Wow thats borderline psychotic. Always knew the dude had a screw loose but that is way over the top. All because of black level rise ? Thats just not right.
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gmarceau's Avatar gmarceau 03:52 PM 08-26-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

And bringing back linebleeding (GT30, ST30).

Haha, yeah that one doesn't bother me as much. Call me crazy...
8mile13's Avatar 8mile13 04:01 PM 08-26-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally; View Post

really don't remember.

but there is at least one other review i read besides the one posted on the thread on this forum

there is a philosophy teacher who wrote down his Sharp X5 impressions today, you might wanna call that a review .
Turrican4D's Avatar Turrican4D 04:34 PM 08-26-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post
Haha, yeah that one doesn't bother me as much. Call me crazy...
Do you know, if the VT30 is better than his little brothers in that regard?
gmarceau's Avatar gmarceau 01:48 PM 08-27-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

Do you know, if the VT30 is better than his little brothers in that regard?

Couldn't tell you, as I only see it on my ST30 during those green movie preview screens from the MPAA. I get a feeling that it's just the same, since 3 panels are very similar sans some fine tuning, especially in the larger sizes.

Funny enough, those are mostly the only times I've ever really noticed it. Documaker had pictures of the 500m without line bleed and I thought it was non-existent on Kuros only. Same green movie preview screen to show it, too.
m4bama's Avatar m4bama 03:47 PM 08-27-2011
plasmas will continue to dominate
gmarceau's Avatar gmarceau 07:12 PM 08-27-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by m4bama View Post
plasmas will continue to dominate
Damn straight!

By the way, do you know anything more about these x60 and x70 models you mentioned that D-Nice confirmed???
m4bama's Avatar m4bama 08:26 PM 08-29-2011
Ya the Sharp Elites is the ones mentioned.
Auditor55's Avatar Auditor55 09:35 PM 08-29-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

well i've read several reviews on the sharp elites and they are impressive, probably the best lcd/led available.

but none of the reviewers said their black levels exceed a kuro elite and the off angle viewing issues remain.

so no, these sets have not rendered plasmas moot.

And yet Pioneer decided to abandon the Kuro and plasma in general. I think the global market has rendered plasma moot. I think Best Buy is one of few places you can buy a plasma and seems like every time I go there there a fewer plasmas on display.

As strange as it might seem, the cheaper prices of plasma, from a marketing point of view, hurts the future of plasma. Those lower prices seems to devalue plasma. We observed this happen with CRT, DLP and RPTV in general. Those bottom basement prices is a sure sign of the end of consumer electronic technology.
HogPilot's Avatar HogPilot 06:26 AM 08-30-2011
Not to ruin your nice little fantasy, but this thread could use a fresh dose of reality:

http://tvtechnology.com/article/120092

Neither TV manufacturers nor industry analysts see plasma going away, especially with the market growth it's seen since its demise was predicted back in '09. Don't worry, one day you'll get it right.
RandyWalters's Avatar RandyWalters 08:17 AM 08-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3reach View Post

Umm, wtf are you talking about? I'm me dont know who those people are. Someone needs to chill out. Man Panny fanboys love to attack.

No, i'm virtually positive that you are the former XxHoosierDaddy/Nobl3/xxxManSucker. When i exposed your shennanigans 4 days ago your average post count at that time was more than 5 posts per day, but then you immediately disappeared from the forum and have only posted once since 4 days ago. Please stay gone this time.
HTguru3's Avatar HTguru3 09:04 AM 08-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

And yet Pioneer decided to abandon the Kuro and plasma in general. I think the global market has rendered plasma moot. I think Best Buy is one of few places you can buy a plasma and seems like every time I go there there a fewer plasmas on display.

As strange as it might seem, the cheaper prices of plasma, from a marketing point of view, hurts the future of plasma. Those lower prices seems to devalue plasma. We observed this happen with CRT, DLP and RPTV in general. Those bottom basement prices is a sure sign of the end of consumer electronic technology.


Fast forward to 2015 and here's a future post from our favorite poster audi55:

Plasma is doomed to die and SED will be taking over.

You know audi, eventually you will probably be right but is spouting the same crap for about 5 years now really productive?
Auditor55's Avatar Auditor55 09:51 AM 08-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot View Post

Not to ruin your nice little fantasy, but this thread could use a fresh dose of reality:

http://tvtechnology.com/article/120092

Neither TV manufacturers nor industry analysts see plasma going away, especially with the market growth it's seen since its demise was predicted back in '09. Don't worry, one day you'll get it right.

That article does more to buttress my point about plasma. It seems, do to their drop in price, they got a momentary increase sales. As time goes on, as LED based LCD sets come down in price, PDP will be completely driven from the market worldwide. And those, as the article suggest, looking to replace their CRT's, will purchase a LCD set and not a plasma.
Auditor55's Avatar Auditor55 10:11 AM 08-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTguru3 View Post

Fast forward to 2015 and here's a future post from our favorite poster audi55:

Plasma is doomed to die and SED will be taking over.

You know audi, eventually you will probably be right but is spouting the same crap for about 5 years now really productive?

I still think about SED and how wonderful it could have been. Unfortunately the industry was afraid to unleash the power of SED. Now we have all of this gimmicky stuff like 3D tv. I 've already had enough of that annoying 3-D stuff at the movies.

Also, is this subject about being productive? We're just discussion market trends.

Plasma lovers know that PDP is on the way out, that's clear, its not really worthy of debate. The problem is is that Plasma lovers feel that the technology driving PDP from the market (LCD) is inferior, so I understand the unwillingness of plasma lovers to accept the inevitable.

I'm not going to debate Plasma vs LCD, both have their strengths and weaknesses. I like both technologies for what give me, but I would have preferred a new technology over the gimmicks.
HTguru3's Avatar HTguru3 12:38 PM 08-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I still think about SED and how wonderful it could have been. Unfortunately the industry was afraid to unleash the power of SED. Now we have all of this gimmicky stuff like 3D tv. I 've already had enough of that annoying 3-D stuff at the movies.

Also, is this subject about being productive? We're just discussion market trends.

Plasma lovers know that PDP is on the way out, that's clear, its not really worthy of debate. The problem is is that Plasma lovers feel that the technology driving PDP from the market (LCD) is inferior, so I understand the unwillingness of plasma lovers to accept the inevitable.

I'm not going to debate Plasma vs LCD, both have their strengths and weaknesses. I like both technologies for what give me, but I would have preferred a new technology over the gimmicks.


yawn, you're no different than the little boy that kept crying wolf. When it finally happened nobody listened to him. I sense your yearly prediction of plasma's demise will have the same effect, nobody will care. Try and be a productive poster rather than just a puppet repeating the same thing over and over again.
mr. wally's Avatar mr. wally 03:26 PM 08-30-2011
well if people are stupid enough to want to buy displays with imperfect blacks and poor off angle viewing at a higher price than a plasma display.............

what can i say. these same idiots will be buying overpriced 3d sets instead of oled displays, and if audi's fantasy become reality, they will want their 3d lcds
over sed
chunon's Avatar chunon 03:43 PM 08-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

No, i'm virtually positive that you are the former XxHoosierDaddy/Nobl3/xxxManSucker. When i exposed your shennanigans 4 days ago your average post count at that time was more than 5 posts per day, but then you immediately disappeared from the forum and have only posted once since 4 days ago. Please stay gone this time.

Randy I think you are spot on and he definitely backs down and disappears when confronted.
specuvestor's Avatar specuvestor 06:24 PM 08-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post


I still think about SED and how wonderful it could have been. Unfortunately the industry was afraid to unleash the power of SED. Now we have all of this gimmicky stuff like 3D tv. I 've already had enough of that annoying 3-D stuff at the movies.

Also, is this subject about being productive? We're just discussion market trends.

Plasma lovers know that PDP is on the way out, that's clear, its not really worthy of debate. The problem is is that Plasma lovers feel that the technology driving PDP from the market (LCD) is inferior, so I understand the unwillingness of plasma lovers to accept the inevitable.

I'm not going to debate Plasma vs LCD, both have their strengths and weaknesses. I like both technologies for what give me, but I would have preferred a new technology over the gimmicks.

It's inevitable that we all die someday and OLED will one day overtake LCD as well. But to keep harping on it while holding on to SED fantasy is quite ironic. I think that's the definition of trolling.

A stopped clock is also right twice a day but just as irrelevant.
wildchild22's Avatar wildchild22 06:46 PM 08-30-2011
I like my plasma way better than any lcd I have.
HogPilot's Avatar HogPilot 08:24 PM 08-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

That article does more to buttress my point about plasma. It seems, do to their drop in price, they got a momentary increase sales. As time goes on, as LED based LCD sets come down in price, PDP will be completely driven from the market worldwide. And those, as the article suggest, looking to replace their CRT's, will purchase a LCD set and not a plasma.

I don't think you'd know reality if it mushroomed you on the forehead, Peter North style.

The article and supporting graph say nothing of the demise of plasma - in fact the graph shows a stable (if not slightly increasing) market share now and out until 2015, and the text clearly describes that plasma is doing just fine despite predictions of its supposed demise back in 2009. It says nothing about this supposed downturn in market share "do[sic] to a drop in price."

When an article clearly reads "plasma is doing just fine and not going away" and then you turn around and say "see, that supports my position that plasma is dying!" it only serves to further illustrate the irrationality of your position while bolstering mine. Thanks for the support, felch-master.
RedJamaX's Avatar RedJamaX 09:50 PM 08-30-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Oh goody! we were due for another "death of plasma" thread.

Wow! This is a fun topic isn't it...

We can sit here and argue about all the "technical" differences between plasma and LCD till we are all blue in the face (or red knuckled...er, uh, carpletunneled ... is that even a word?)...

Plasma is better because.. blah blah blah
LCD is better because.. blah blah blah
Super Duper New Technology That Nobody Uses Yet And Might Not Even Get Off The Ground Before Being Replaced is better because.. blah blah blah....

But here are a few human truth's...

If we took all of the people who get on forums like these to do research before buying a TV, complied that with all the AV hobbyists and enthusiasts who aren't on these forums, and further added all of the other people who actually do ANY amount of "useful" research at ALL before buying a TV... It would make up about 5%... maybe, just maybe 10% of the TV sales market (big screens only)...

Now go down to your local Electronics Store... sit back and watch.. and giggle to yourself as consumer after consumer either...

1. Gets bamboozled by the "respresentative" as he explains the technology at the same level of understanding that your friend's Pet Parrot could recite the flyer attatched to the side of the TV if it was repeated enough times...

OR

2. Bases the purchase decision no how the picture looks frmo one TV to the next without knowing how the TV was setup for viewing... does it have an HD signal or not? 480, 720 or 1080? i or p? what preset mode is it on? Are they playing a BluRay? Is the motion smoothing enabled? you hear comments like... "well that one is too dark"... "that one is too bright"... the color is too strong on that one"... "the picture looks better on that one there"...

I Mean... C'MON!!! Even the old 1970's black-and-white's had brightness and contrast settings... What??? you think they just did away with all of those "fancy" controls???

So what does it Ultimately come down to.... ADVERTISING and INGNORANCE!!!

600Hz is better than 480HZ to the average consumer, no matter how you explain it! OH, and $1200 is better than $2400 as well... But WAIT... LED LCD uses less power... OLED is MORE "Green"

Unless somebody can actually provide statistical data for specifics...

I would guess that 10% (or less) of Big Screen purchases are made by people who at least attempted to educate themselves "adequately" about the REAL differences in the technology... and then wieghed the pros and cons to decide which purchase was best for "Them"...

Another 20% of consumers did one of the following...
1. Bought the simlar brand and series they had before because they liked it
2. Bought a different technology because they tried the other and "didn't" like it
3. Bought the same series TV their friend had (but bigger)
4. Went with the "SALES PERSON's" reccomendation

And then the remaining 70%....
THE NUMBER ONE REASON TO BUY ONE TV OVER THE OTHER...
"Well... the one on the left looks better... and it's the same price"

The majority of the human race are mindless sheep and easily manipulated by cheap tricks, higher numbers, and lower prices.... My guess is that until LCD can reach 1,200Hz... plasma isn't going anywhere!

For the record... I have a 55" Vizio XVT3D554SV. I chose LCD over Plasma ultimately because I think the Interpolation looks freaking cool on Sci-Fi and Animated movies... However... If plamsa TVs ever introduced Interpolation equivalent to LCDs.... I'd buy a plasma instead!
ebernazz's Avatar ebernazz 05:32 AM 08-31-2011
1200Hz would not help with lcd's oav which many feel is its biggest problem. Also I assume (never a good thing) you do not understand about what lcd is doing with its "480Hz" since 1200Hz would not help.
mailiang's Avatar mailiang 10:00 AM 08-31-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebernazz View Post
1200Hz would not help with lcd's oav which many feel is its biggest problem. Also I assume (never a good thing) you do not understand about what lcd is doing with its "480Hz" since 1200Hz would not help.
I agree. But his understanding of the typical consumer, pretty much hit the mark. I particularly like the comment about the pet parrot.


Ian
RedJamaX's Avatar RedJamaX 12:32 PM 08-31-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebernazz View Post
1200Hz would not help with lcd's oav which many feel is its biggest problem. Also I assume (never a good thing) you do not understand about what lcd is doing with its "480Hz" since 1200Hz would not help.
Actually, I do understand, and I know that it wouldn't make a difference... I only meant to further exemplify the effect of the "numbers game" as it relates to advertising for the average consumer.
Steve S's Avatar Steve S 01:51 PM 08-31-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJamaX View Post
Wow! This is a fun topic isn't it...

We can sit here and argue about all the "technical" differences between plasma and LCD till we are all blue in the face (or red knuckled...er, uh, carpletunneled ... is that even a word?)...

Plasma is better because.. blah blah blah
LCD is better because.. blah blah blah
Super Duper New Technology That Nobody Uses Yet And Might Not Even Get Off The Ground Before Being Replaced is better because.. blah blah blah....

But here are a few human truth's...

If we took all of the people who get on forums like these to do research before buying a TV, complied that with all the AV hobbyists and enthusiasts who aren't on these forums, and further added all of the other people who actually do ANY amount of "useful" research at ALL before buying a TV... It would make up about 5%... maybe, just maybe 10% of the TV sales market (big screens only)...

Now go down to your local Electronics Store... sit back and watch.. and giggle to yourself as consumer after consumer either...

1. Gets bamboozled by the "respresentative" as he explains the technology at the same level of understanding that your friend's Pet Parrot could recite the flyer attatched to the side of the TV if it was repeated enough times...

OR

2. Bases the purchase decision no how the picture looks frmo one TV to the next without knowing how the TV was setup for viewing... does it have an HD signal or not? 480, 720 or 1080? i or p? what preset mode is it on? Are they playing a BluRay? Is the motion smoothing enabled? you hear comments like... "well that one is too dark"... "that one is too bright"... the color is too strong on that one"... "the picture looks better on that one there"...

I Mean... C'MON!!! Even the old 1970's black-and-white's had brightness and contrast settings... What??? you think they just did away with all of those "fancy" controls???

So what does it Ultimately come down to.... ADVERTISING and INGNORANCE!!!

600Hz is better than 480HZ to the average consumer, no matter how you explain it! OH, and $1200 is better than $2400 as well... But WAIT... LED LCD uses less power... OLED is MORE "Green"

Unless somebody can actually provide statistical data for specifics...

I would guess that 10% (or less) of Big Screen purchases are made by people who at least attempted to educate themselves "adequately" about the REAL differences in the technology... and then wieghed the pros and cons to decide which purchase was best for "Them"...

Another 20% of consumers did one of the following...
1. Bought the simlar brand and series they had before because they liked it
2. Bought a different technology because they tried the other and "didn't" like it
3. Bought the same series TV their friend had (but bigger)
4. Went with the "SALES PERSON's" reccomendation

And then the remaining 70%....
THE NUMBER ONE REASON TO BUY ONE TV OVER THE OTHER...
"Well... the one on the left looks better... and it's the same price"

The majority of the human race are mindless sheep and easily manipulated by cheap tricks, higher numbers, and lower prices.... My guess is that until LCD can reach 1,200Hz... plasma isn't going anywhere!

For the record... I have a 55" Vizio XVT3D554SV. I chose LCD over Plasma ultimately because I think the Interpolation looks freaking cool on Sci-Fi and Animated movies... However... If plamsa TVs ever introduced Interpolation equivalent to LCDs.... I'd buy a plasma instead!
I am one of those "representatives" and your estimate of 10% for "educated" customers is wildly optimistic. I'd put it closer to 3-5% and most of those never went further than Consumer Reports ratings--not necessarily the worst thing since CR does call out sets with bad off-angle performance etc.

Your evaluation is otherwise pretty much spot-on.

My job is to sell television sets, not educate the customer until their eyes glaze over. If a customer expresses an interest in knowing the pros and cons of the different sets for their particular uses I'm more than happy to enlighten them to the best of my ability and debunk the mfg. hype, but if they come in and say "I want a Samsung LED because my cousin's hairdresser's mechanic says they're the best" I'm not gonna argue.

Interesting that you mention the brightness and contrast controls on the old BW sets. The average set now has far more adjustments than in the past while at the same time customers know less and less about adjusting tv sets--they pull it out of the box, hook everything up, and if it looks bad return it rather than try to adjust it.
RedJamaX's Avatar RedJamaX 02:12 PM 08-31-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post
I am one of those "representatives" and your estimate of 10% for "educated" customers is wildly optimistic. I'd put it closer to 3-5% and most of those never went further than Consumer Reports ratings--not necessarily the worst thing since CR does call out sets with bad off-angle performance etc.

Your evaluation is otherwise pretty much spot-on.

My job is to sell television sets, not educate the customer until their eyes glaze over. If a customer expresses an interest in knowing the pros and cons of the different sets for their particular uses I'm more than happy to enlighten them to the best of my ability and debunk the mfg. hype, but if they come in and say "I want a Samsung LED because my cousin's hairdresser's mechanic says they're the best" I'm not gonna argue.

Interesting that you mention the brightness and contrast controls on the old BW sets. The average set now has far more adjustments than in the past while at the same time customers know less and less about adjusting tv sets--they pull it out of the box, hook everything up, and if it looks bad return it rather than try to adjust it.
Steve,

Thanks for the elaboration on your own personal experience... and I meant no disrespect in my post... everybody's go a job to do. Given what is understood about the avg customer (see above ) I would also go with your methods to sell the TVs, wether I understood the technology to the n'th degree or not. Just to avoid that "deer in the headlights" look all together!

But since you've added to the conversation... perhaps you can shed a little more light on the subject...

As far as big screens go (I'd say 40" or larger for the "plasma vs LCD" comparison)... what do you personally see more people buying?? Plasma or LCD...? how long have you been in this end of sales and have you seen any particular trend toward one direction or the other?? Just from your own experience....
johnnybrulez's Avatar johnnybrulez 02:36 PM 08-31-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTguru3 View Post
Fast forward to 2015 and here's a future post from our favorite poster audi55:

Plasma is doomed to die and SED will be taking over.

You know audi, eventually you will probably be right but is spouting the same crap for about 5 years now really productive?
It's been 5 years? ... What the hell?! More like... 7?

Its nice to know some things never change. I do kind of understand Mr. Auditor though. Waiting for a tech that's never going to come. It's a bummer man. Alot of us... or maybe a select few are still waiting for that world beater display with the perfect color and infinite black depth. The Kuro 9g came the closest and no progression ever since. That was 3 years... ago.

Pioneer ECC died. SED died. OLED may never make it. LED and Plasma war is all great... but hometheater videophile PQ has been stuck in a stall for too long.

Screw PDP's future looking grim. Picture quality progress in flat panels in general is looking way worse.
johnnybrulez's Avatar johnnybrulez 02:47 PM 08-31-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post
I still think about SED and how wonderful it could have been. Unfortunately the industry was afraid to unleash the power of SED. Now we have all of this gimmicky stuff like 3D tv. I 've already had enough of that annoying 3-D stuff at the movies.

Also, is this subject about being productive? We're just discussion market trends.

Plasma lovers know that PDP is on the way out, that's clear, its not really worthy of debate. The problem is is that Plasma lovers feel that the technology driving PDP from the market (LCD) is inferior, so I understand the unwillingness of plasma lovers to accept the inevitable.

I'm not going to debate Plasma vs LCD, both have their strengths and weaknesses. I like both technologies for what give me, but I would have preferred a new technology over the gimmicks.
Wow. I whole heartedly agree... welll I am not sure that PDP is on the way out anytime soon but the principle of what you're saying is right on. (I am officially scared.)

You make SED sound like the death star... unleashing power huh? Maybe people tried and kept dying because of the awesomeness of that contrast. Chuck Norris should've been lead developer at Toshiba.
Steve S's Avatar Steve S 03:39 PM 08-31-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJamaX View Post
Steve,

Thanks for the elaboration on your own personal experience... and I meant no disrespect in my post... everybody's go a job to do. Given what is understood about the avg customer (see above ) I would also go with your methods to sell the TVs, wether I understood the technology to the n'th degree or not. Just to avoid that "deer in the headlights" look all together!

But since you've added to the conversation... perhaps you can shed a little more light on the subject...

As far as big screens go (I'd say 40" or larger for the "plasma vs LCD" comparison)... what do you personally see more people buying?? Plasma or LCD...? how long have you been in this end of sales and have you seen any particular trend toward one direction or the other?? Just from your own experience....
I've been doing this for 5 years. From 40-47" lcd rules. At 50" and above there are two price points most customers want to stick to: Under 1k, and about 1.5k. The under 1k folks will buy a 50" plasma, the 1.5k folks will buy an entry level 55-60" led/lcd, or possibly a 50-55" 3D plasma.

Overall although we are selling many, many more plasmas in proportion to lcds than, say, 3 years ago, lcd still outsells plasma.
kryloc's Avatar kryloc 07:17 PM 09-01-2011
I'd say it depends on the type of retailer you are. To many consumers, anything over 1k is a real stretch in this economy. When you can get a 43" samsung plasma for 400, or a 51" for 600, it's hard to LED to compete at that point. I say LED, because Samsung in particular has began to abandon their LCD lineup somewhat already. Even a typical Samsung 40" LCD will run you 500-600 usually. Plasmas biggest weakness is it's bright light performance/glare issues, and all the general fears and myths...For example, I was putting a stand on a TV the other day and had the TV laying face down on the counter. Customer walked up and goes, "I hope that's not a plasma"....

I'd agree that many consumers are mis-informed, but there are a few sales people out there that will try and correct their knowledge...if possible...then again I'm a bad sales person. I'd rather enlighten the customer first, sell second. That all being said, for my company, the 43" Plasma is one of our best performers.

Just my 2 cents or so.
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