What's the ABSOLUTE best HDTV for gaming? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 09-06-2011, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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LCD, LED or plasma I don't care. What's the best of the best for gaming?
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post #2 of 27 Old 09-06-2011, 05:53 PM
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I like Plasma for refresh rate and colors (disregarding any burn-in chance).

I love LEDs with local/microdimming for HDTV, absolutely stellar picture and contrast ratio.

Sayign that, I only own a 720p Plasma and a 1080p LCD! I plan to get somthing nice for myl iving room, but being single - hard to convince myself to have 3 TVs and a projector.

Right now both my TVs are in separate bedrooms so people have something to do before going to sleep.

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post #3 of 27 Old 09-06-2011, 06:38 PM
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Panasonic plasma. All issues like black level performance and other little annoyances don't matter since your primary concern is gaming.

LCDs have response times and are thus inferior. Yes, 2ms or even 5ms are fine but you said "absolute."

After you remove LCDS from the equation the major factor is input lag. Check the input lag thread and you will see that panasonics tend to have the least input lag which is MOST important for gaming.

Samsung makes fantastic plasmas, there is no denying that but if you want the absolute "best" in terms of gaming, then a panasonic plasma is the way to go.

I was in you shoes two years ago with the same problem. I went with a panasonic G10 and it's been fantastic for gaming. In terms of HDTVs, I personally feel that there is no other option If gaming is your priority.

Edit : you should also be aware that LEDs are LCDs. Same technology, just different lighting. Response times, pro and cons apply to both.
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post #4 of 27 Old 09-06-2011, 07:17 PM
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I would avoid the current crop of Panasonic 3D plasmas for any gaming with static content. My Panasonic VT30 has much worse IR than my previous 2 Panasonic plasmas. I've had a TBS logo burned into my display for weeks after watching a lot of TBS for a couple of days. It has faded and will probably go away completely in a few more weeks (I'm hoping), but it's been 3-4 weeks or so and it's still visible on a white screen.

I definitely feel that these 3D plasmas have taken a step backward in IR/burn-in based on my previous experiences and I'd be pretty nervous about gaming on this thing.
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post #5 of 27 Old 09-06-2011, 08:25 PM
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A Pioneer 9G plasma. Now go get one.
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post #6 of 27 Old 09-07-2011, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkozlow3 View Post

I would avoid the current crop of Panasonic 3D plasmas for any gaming with static content. My Panasonic VT30 has much worse IR than my previous 2 Panasonic plasmas. I've had a TBS logo burned into my display for weeks after watching a lot of TBS for a couple of days. It has faded and will probably go away completely in a few more weeks (I'm hoping), but it's been 3-4 weeks or so and it's still visible on a white screen.

I definitely feel that these 3D plasmas have taken a step backward in IR/burn-in based on my previous experiences and I'd be pretty nervous about gaming on this thing.

I disagree with this, I have a Panasonic ST30 and PZ85U and both are used for gaming and computer monitors with no IR problems on either one. I definitely know it can still happen but it seems pretty hard to do (from my experience).

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post #7 of 27 Old 09-07-2011, 08:30 AM
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Higher end Panasonics seem to be pretty good for gaming from the gamers on this site. LG and Samsung tend to have slightly more IR problems. Going 3-D probably also would be cool for games. The consensus generally is that 3-D sucks right now mostly because of lack of content designed properly for it, but that's probably going to start changing. Harry Potter in 3D was really impressive, although they still need to do something so that people don't seem quite so "flat" at times.
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post #8 of 27 Old 09-07-2011, 10:43 AM
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Panasonic line isn't exactly a slam dunk for gaming this year IMO. Low APL dithering (e.g. darker toned content, obviously very common in games) is very, very poor on the 2011's. This may be a major annoyance if you plan to drive the panel beyond 24fL and sit within optimal viewing distance--as it increases dramatically in Mid and High panel brightness and is clearly more pronounced the closer you sit. Low APL phosphor trails can also be very obvious in certain content, seen as red/blue trails ghosting off objects in motion (arguably as annoying as motion blur and black smearing on lower quality LCD's). This also becomes more pronounced with panel brightness. Then you run into the more publicized issues like floating brightness (depending on luck and/or build date), green blobs, relatively low light output (most sizes have a hard cap of 45fL in High, 38fL in Mid, and 24fL in Low), and reports of increased (more stubborn) IR over prior models. To be fair, you could probably pick apart any technology/make/model like this though, just wanted to point out the Panasonic's may not necessarily be the guaranteed Go-To.
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post #9 of 27 Old 11-14-2011, 01:35 PM
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Has the OP chosen a tv yet?

I am deciding between the Panasonic and the Samsung plasma in the next week or two. the Panasonic would be the ST30 and the Samsung would be the 7000 series. Used for primarily gaming in a light controlled environment.

Has to do PC gaming as well as 360, PS3, and Wii.

Does anyone have feedback on the aforementioned problems with this years Panasonic plasmas?


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post #10 of 27 Old 11-14-2011, 05:51 PM
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I will tell you my story. For the past 6 months I came on this site to read. I read all day long and every time I thought I found a TV, I learned too much about the issues. Until about 2 weeks ago, I couldnt settle on a TV due to the amount I read about them, none of them were "good" enough for me. I game 4-5 hours a night, every night, on the same console game, COD. My wife watches movies and TV shows every day and we enjoy watching HD content.

I went to different stores multiple times and Samsung LCD's always looked the best, because their torch mode makes the TV so bright and crisp, but if you look real close the color tones are horrible. I almost fell for it but I didnt. I decided to go to Best Buy and purchase there even though I told myself I will not shop there anymore. The reason was because I game on the same game every night, and being this is my first plasma, I was worried about burn in or image retention. Best Buy's warranty covers that, its the only warranty that does.

I read about the break in, and the "necessary" things people do to their plasmas. I then asked all the gamers I have gamed with over the past 10+ years who use plasma's now and they said they have never heard of doing that and never noticed any issues with their sets. I asked multiple salesman at ABT Electronics, an especially higher classed electronics store with extremely knowledgable staff. All said it is not necessary, well except for this site. I figured since I have the warranty, I will just proceed with what the people away from this site told me.

I got the TV home, set it to where it looked right to me, and watched some movies with my wife. After about 3-4 hours of watching TV/movies, I popped Call of Duty in and gamed for 5 hours. The next day my wife watched movies/tv shows. We try to avoid the bars and any logos that are solid colors though. Then I gamed for 5 hours straight as always multiplayer gaming. I have been doing this for 2 weeks now with absolutely no sign of issues. I havent seen one inkling of IR and everything looks great to me, I couldnt be happier. There is no discernable input lag that I see, and like I said, I game every night for 5 hours and I am pretty competitive, always highly ranked since COD4.

I have the 55 ST30 and its great. I didnt do the break in. I gamed and enjoyed the TV, the way the salespeople and my friends told me I could. I dont see any issues at present. I say get the Panasonic, its great for what it is and gives a really good picture. I had a 57HM167 Toshiba DLP that this TV replaced. The picture quality is superb and gaming is great. Just dont leave the lobby on the screen or a static image for hours and you will be fine. In mulitplayer gaming you play a 10 minute game and then you go to a different screen for a minute or so, so I dont think there is any problem. I do not play any single player so I do not know about that. Good luck and I personally wouldnt read too much into doing "slides" as every place I have called that sell these TV's said there is no reason to still do that.
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post #11 of 27 Old 11-14-2011, 09:27 PM
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Glad to hear the ST30 is working out. Did you also consider the Sammy 7000 series? And if so what made up your mind.

Has anyone experienced the issues brought up in the post from Orta? Those comments make me nervous about the purchase.


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post #12 of 27 Old 11-14-2011, 09:59 PM
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I didnt consider the Samsungs because of the FBR(brightness pops) issues. I knew for sure that the Panny Plasma's with serial numbers above xx1215 were made post August and had the fix applied already. Mine is xx1271 October of 2011. I see no problems at all except for an audio issue on a certain channel, especially for the price I paid with free Blu Ray player and 130 gift card given to me then plus the 3x reward points I got as well, It was under 1k for the 55 ST30 when you total the gift card and reward zone points, not even including the blu ray player that I sold for 100.
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post #13 of 27 Old 11-14-2011, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petes67bird View Post

I didnt consider the Samsungs because of the FBR(brightness pops) issues. I knew for sure that the Panny Plasma's with serial numbers above xx1215 were made post August and had the fix applied already. Mine is xx1271 October of 2011. I see no problems at all except for an audio issue on a certain channel, especially for the price I paid with free Blu Ray player and 130 gift card given to me then plus the 3x reward points I got as well, It was under 1k for the 55 ST30 when you total the gift card and reward zone points, not even including the blu ray player that I sold for 100.

Slides are good if you want to be extra careful. What is a must though is running your set fully through its paces during the return period in case you got one that's very IR prone as some are. Manufacturers don't cover it, although IMO it should be considered a defect. Some people with a given set (yours included) get very bad IR easily, while others abuse their sets to all hell and never get a trace. We don't really have any good numbers for the percentage of sets that are "IR prone" vs not and anyway it's more of a scale than a strict yes or no - and depending on factors user viewing can have an impact (or can not have an impact in other cases).

But yes, a little common sense and care does go a long way in terms of viewing content.
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post #14 of 27 Old 11-14-2011, 11:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

Panasonic line isn't exactly a slam dunk for gaming this year IMO. Low APL dithering (e.g. darker toned content, obviously very common in games) is very, very poor on the 2011's. This may be a major annoyance if you plan to drive the panel beyond 24fL and sit within optimal viewing distance--as it increases dramatically in Mid and High panel brightness and is clearly more pronounced the closer you sit. Low APL phosphor trails can also be very obvious in certain content, seen as red/blue trails ghosting off objects in motion (arguably as annoying as motion blur and black smearing on lower quality LCD's). This also becomes more pronounced with panel brightness. Then you run into the more publicized issues like floating brightness (depending on luck and/or build date), green blobs, relatively low light output (most sizes have a hard cap of 45fL in High, 38fL in Mid, and 24fL in Low), and reports of increased (more stubborn) IR over prior models. To be fair, you could probably pick apart any technology/make/model like this though, just wanted to point out the Panasonic's may not necessarily be the guaranteed Go-To.

From the reports I have been reading , +1
A 2010 model ended up at 17 ftl. before they clipped Whites so I believe giving that Panny Plasma tv of the year by CNET was money driven!
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post #15 of 27 Old 11-15-2011, 01:24 PM
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The reports of brightness variance and phosphor trails on the Panny are what concern me most. I would pull the trigger on the Panny around black friday most likely as long as I can get those issues settled. Otherwise, I would gladly pay a few hundred more for the Sammy, but I am sure it comes with it's own set of problems.

Does anyone else have personal experience gaming with these two tv's?


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post #16 of 27 Old 11-15-2011, 02:07 PM
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post #17 of 27 Old 11-15-2011, 03:14 PM
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It appears that the highest line of Philips tv's available in the US is the 7000 series. Do you know how these compare to the 9000 series?


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post #18 of 27 Old 11-15-2011, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

It appears that the highest line of Philips tv's available in the US is the 7000 series. Do you know how these compare to the 9000 series?

Going by the digitalversus review, not very well i don't think since the pixel response time was high or average on the 7000 and the fastest they'd seen in an LCD on the 9000 series, which was formerly held by the HX929. However the trusted-reviews review of the 7000 series was very positive.


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post #19 of 27 Old 11-06-2012, 12:13 PM
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so what did you decide on? i am curious cause i had a sammy c8000 but i punched it by accident in may.
It had IR problems when gaming for long periods from a static "HUD" in certain games usually being FPS & racing & RPG.
I am in the market for a new TV & even though i loved my plasma i think the higher end lcd's are pretty much on par with plasma.
Right now i am bouncing between getting a LCD LG 55LM8600 or plasma LG 50PM9700 or Panasonic TC-P50GT50 & ST50.
I am finding it very difficult this time around in picking which 1.
They don't seem to sell the lg9700 plasma in canada so that 1 may be out the window.
So the LCD 8600 vs GT50/ST50 is really hard pick
any1 with idea's?

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post #20 of 27 Old 11-07-2012, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OugaBooga View Post

so what did you decide on? i am curious cause i had a sammy c8000 but i punched it by accident in may.
It had IR problems when gaming for long periods from a static "HUD" in certain games usually being FPS & racing & RPG.
I am in the market for a new TV & even though i loved my plasma i think the higher end lcd's are pretty much on par with plasma.
Right now i am bouncing between getting a LCD LG 55LM8600 or plasma LG 50PM9700 or Panasonic TC-P50GT50 & ST50.
I am finding it very difficult this time around in picking which 1.
They don't seem to sell the lg9700 plasma in canada so that 1 may be out the window.
So the LCD 8600 vs GT50/ST50 is really hard pick
any1 with idea's?
Are you looking for the best big display in terms of input lag, or are you looking for the best big display in terms of video game motion?

Native 120Hz refresh from a PC? A few models of HDTV's such as the Vizio e3d420vx (YouTube of PowerStrip 1080p@120Hz). No guarantees if it works, but native 120Hz (non-interpolated) has half motion blur of 60Hz for a typical LCD display, for 120Hz monitors. We need more guinea pigs to test 120Hz upon more HDTV's (especially bigger brands)
Input Lag? I heard pretty good things about Panasonic plasmas, though some LCD HDTV's have gotten pretty high ratings in their Game Mode's.
Motion Resolution? This is a tough one; the better LCD HDTV's don't generally have a 120Hz native mode. For plasma, if you play 60fps games, you'll get great motion resolution on many good plasmas. For LCD, if you can stand a little input lag (e.g. turn based games, non-online, etc), then turning on motion interpolation can do the trick (Displays with Sony Motionflow XR 960 and Samsung CMR 960, often have the best motion quality). Other times, test the flicker mode of the LCD HDTV (e.g. Motionflow Impulse setting of Sony XBR950 -- the "scanning backlight only" mode) and see if it has less input lag without motion interpolation.
Color quality? Sometimes subjective. Some people prefer the plasma look, others prefer LCD. Lots of videogames have murky colors that torture tests plasma quality.

Also, don't forget the very clear double image effect on plasma for 30fps@60Hz, if you do lots of console gaming. Many don't mind, but some people do.
Pick your preferred attributes. Unfortunately, it's hard to get all good attributes in the same HDTV! This will change eventually, I hope.
The models you mention, at least for the Panasonic, are above-average choices, but no single HDTV meets unamiously meet all above multiple criteria.
Hope I haven't complicated your decision.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon


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BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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post #21 of 27 Old 11-18-2012, 08:15 PM
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I can't attest to how good the best LCDs with dimming may or may not be, but I'd also recommend getting the biggest panasonic plasma you can find, with 3D, and whatever money you save from not having wasted it on a local-dimming set, you can spend on your sound system or buying more games, or more 3D glasses for friends.

I have a 2008 Panny plasma still going strong and I use it for many hours a day in torch mode as my main PC monitor, playing games, watching movies, websites, etc, and not a hint of IR.

The only thing I'd upgrade it to is a 3D-capable panny plasma, or even better, a 3D projector with fluid motion, probably a 6x DLP like the new BenQ w1070, with an anamorphic lens, a pack of 20 dollar samsung shutter glasses, and maybe even a curved screen with my THX speakers behind it.

From one gamer to another, plasma all the way! I work as a 3d videogame programmer and we've always used Plasmas to demo our action games, at the last 3 gaming companies I worked at (very big companies, too). Take that for what it's worth to ya. I don't think paying more for an LCD is a wise investment. Fundamentally weaker display technology IMO.

The hacks to patch it are clever, but rather pointless, especially in 3D, for gaming, you cannot beat plasma due to the lower crosstalk. People say similar things about DLPs vs LCDs where 3D quality is concerned and fluid motion matter more. Not sure about input lag, but I never noticed any on my panny.

In all likelihood my next display will be a proj, and the one after that an OLED. Then who knows...an implant? a hologram? a holodeck? What I wouldn't give for an hour on the holodeck with Seven-of-Nine. ami rite? ohhhh
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post #22 of 27 Old 11-19-2012, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GASKA View Post

LCD, LED or plasma I don't care. What's the best of the best for gaming?

For now this would be good enough for me. http://blog.sony.com/sony-4k-content
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post #23 of 27 Old 11-19-2012, 08:17 PM
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Rumor has it that while the next Sony console will support 4K resolution, it will likely not be used for games. The games will likely run at 1080p at 60fps. That takes quite a bit of resources to achieve (which is why there are so few 1080p games on the market these days) 4k will likely be reserved for the next generation of Blu Ray movies. (which the next Playstation is supposed to support)

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post #24 of 27 Old 11-26-2012, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by NuSoardGraphite View Post

Rumor has it that while the next Sony console will support 4K resolution, it will likely not be used for games. The games will likely run at 1080p at 60fps. That takes quite a bit of resources to achieve (which is why there are so few 1080p games on the market these days) 4k will likely be reserved for the next generation of Blu Ray movies. (which the next Playstation is supposed to support)

Probably true. I'll be building my first combination HTPC/gaming PC in the second quarter of next year after the new CPUs and GPUs become available. I'm sure Crysis 3 will be able to display at a much higher resolution and with better graphics than a console will be able to achieve but at a much higher price.
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post #25 of 27 Old 02-08-2013, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post

Are you looking for the best big display in terms of input lag, or are you looking for the best big display in terms of video game motion?

Native 120Hz refresh from a PC? A few models of HDTV's such as the Vizio e3d420vx (YouTube of PowerStrip 1080p@120Hz). No guarantees if it works, but native 120Hz (non-interpolated) has half motion blur of 60Hz for a typical LCD display, for 120Hz monitors. We need more guinea pigs to test 120Hz upon more HDTV's (especially bigger brands)
Input Lag? I heard pretty good things about Panasonic plasmas, though some LCD HDTV's have gotten pretty high ratings in their Game Mode's.
Motion Resolution? This is a tough one; the better LCD HDTV's don't generally have a 120Hz native mode. For plasma, if you play 60fps games, you'll get great motion resolution on many good plasmas. For LCD, if you can stand a little input lag (e.g. turn based games, non-online, etc), then turning on motion interpolation can do the trick (Displays with Sony Motionflow XR 960 and Samsung CMR 960, often have the best motion quality). Other times, test the flicker mode of the LCD HDTV (e.g. Motionflow Impulse setting of Sony XBR950 -- the "scanning backlight only" mode) and see if it has less input lag without motion interpolation.
Color quality? Sometimes subjective. Some people prefer the plasma look, others prefer LCD. Lots of videogames have murky colors that torture tests plasma quality.

Also, don't forget the very clear double image effect on plasma for 30fps@60Hz, if you do lots of console gaming. Many don't mind, but some people do.
Pick your preferred attributes. Unfortunately, it's hard to get all good attributes in the same HDTV! This will change eventually, I hope.
The models you mention, at least for the Panasonic, are above-average choices, but no single HDTV meets unamiously meet all above multiple criteria.
Hope I haven't complicated your decision.

Hello, sorry for not replying earlier but i got side tracked.
well, what i'd like to say is that i wasn't all that happy with my c8000 plasma when it came to console gaming & 3D gaming, was too much crosstalk for my liking.
I ended up with a 55" es8000 which originally wasn't even a thought of buying since there's been bad reviews of it.
well, i got it & after a price match just recently it's costed me $1725 before taxes which is great IMHO.I could have also gone with a sony 850 for $1800 before taxes but there were no glasses & i still have that lovely remote from my c8000.
Game wise this TV is really nice, maybe i just got lucky with a good set that has no dead pixels,vert banding & clouding.I did have some flashlighting but it's gone since FW version 1046.
this tv is not so go in anything other then game mode when playing very fast paced games on console, i don't know WTF is the problem with these damn consoles, my PC games are flawless but it seems i get bad input lag in consoles for some racing games.
Anyhow, i want to buy 1 LAST plasma before bailing out to projection, i think that's where it's @ if u want huge screens.
cya.......

all prices are canadian

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post #26 of 27 Old 02-08-2013, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post

I can't attest to how good the best LCDs with dimming may or may not be, but I'd also recommend getting the biggest panasonic plasma you can find, with 3D, and whatever money you save from not having wasted it on a local-dimming set, you can spend on your sound system or buying more games, or more 3D glasses for friends.

I have a 2008 Panny plasma still going strong and I use it for many hours a day in torch mode as my main PC monitor, playing games, watching movies, websites, etc, and not a hint of IR.

The only thing I'd upgrade it to is a 3D-capable panny plasma, or even better, a 3D projector with fluid motion, probably a 6x DLP like the new BenQ w1070, with an anamorphic lens, a pack of 20 dollar samsung shutter glasses, and maybe even a curved screen with my THX speakers behind it.

From one gamer to another, plasma all the way! I work as a 3d videogame programmer and we've always used Plasmas to demo our action games, at the last 3 gaming companies I worked at (very big companies, too). Take that for what it's worth to ya. I don't think paying more for an LCD is a wise investment. Fundamentally weaker display technology IMO.

The hacks to patch it are clever, but rather pointless, especially in 3D, for gaming, you cannot beat plasma due to the lower crosstalk. People say similar things about DLPs vs LCDs where 3D quality is concerned and fluid motion matter more. Not sure about input lag, but I never noticed any on my panny.

In all likelihood my next display will be a proj, and the one after that an OLED. Then who knows...an implant? a hologram? a holodeck? What I wouldn't give for an hour on the holodeck with Seven-of-Nine. ami rite? ohhhh

THX for ur input, i had a plasma & i wasn't totally satisfied, my friend had a LSD from samsung that played better on console games & the 3D on my c8000 plasma was not great as reviews mentioned.
I have gone on to get a es8000 & am for the most part happy but i still see some of the problems i had with the plasma in console gaming.
I prefer PC gamiong & so far this unit is spot on.
THX for ur help & YES in the future i am looking toward another plasma, most likely samsung F8500, maybe g8500 since i like upgrades every 2 yrs.
paanies are just too expensive here in canada but i do like pannies
lastly i to will be moving to projection in the next 2-4 yrs
cya fello gamer:)

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post #27 of 27 Old 02-12-2013, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by OugaBooga View Post

Hello, sorry for not replying earlier but i got side tracked.
well, what i'd like to say is that i wasn't all that happy with my c8000 plasma when it came to console gaming & 3D gaming, was too much crosstalk for my liking.
I ended up with a 55" es8000 which originally wasn't even a thought of buying since there's been bad reviews of it.
well, i got it & after a price match just recently it's costed me $1725 before taxes which is great IMHO.I could have also gone with a sony 850 for $1800 before taxes but there were no glasses & i still have that lovely remote from my c8000.
Very interesting you ultimately preferred LCD for gaming instead of plasma. I'm not surprised, there are tradeoffs that makes plasma better for games sometimes, and LCD better for games other times.
Quote:
this tv is not so go in anything other then game mode when playing very fast paced games on console, i don't know WTF is the problem with these damn consoles, my PC games are flawless but it seems i get bad input lag in consoles for some racing games.
-- Use Game Mode on your TV, but you've probably tried that already, so try the following:
-- Try a different video connection. Usually, the VGA output or Component output has less input lag than the HDMI output.
-- For playing 1280x720 games, try outputting 720p instead of 1080p. Try vice versa too. The input lag of your TV's scaler may be less than the input lag of the console's scaler. Or vice-versa.
-- Some wireless controllers add unexpected input lag, especially in noisy signal environments (as the controller has to keep retransmitting your input until the console hears it loud and clear). It's usually Bluetooth (2.4Ghz), and a console sitting near WiFi equipment (2.4Ghz) in your home theater, will impact quick reception of your controller. Relocate your console away from your home theater into open space and closer to your controller, to see if your input lag goes down.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon


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BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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