CCFL-LCD vs LED-LCD Color Gamut vs Plasma Color Gamut - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 10-03-2011, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there a huge difference between the color gamut of a CCFL backlit LCD TV and an LED backlit LCD TV? Also, how do they compare to a Plasma's color gamut?

I'm currently eyeing the LG 42PK450. It's a CCFL-LCD TV. It's 1080p and is pretty cheap. Should I get that TV? I really want a TV that will produce vibrant colors, but I can't afford an LED-LCD TV.
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post #2 of 20 Old 10-04-2011, 04:40 AM
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I'm not sure how if accurate gamut information for various TVs is readily available, but I would imagine that an RGB LED backlit (or even Sharp's RGBY) display would offer the widest possible gamut of any display. This just an educated guess though.

Keep in mind that the widest gamut for any commercially available material is REC709, which just about any modern display should be easily capable of reproducing. If you exceed this by further saturating a display's colors, everything will appear more saturated than it is supposed to (i.e. grass becomes neon, skin tones can become too reddish or orange, etc). People often see oversaturated colors like this and think they look extra vivid. Although oversaturated colors will have even more pop to them, you're no longer displaying the material as it was conceived/intended.

If, after understanding all of this, you still wish to oversaturate your colors, go for it. However all too often people bite off on buying TVs with large gamuts/oversaturated colors because they mistakenly think they're getting a better product or something that's more lifelike, when in reality they're not. However TV marketing will often lead you to believe that a bigger gamut is better.

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post #3 of 20 Old 10-04-2011, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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So do you recommend I buy a CCFL-LCD TV?
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post #4 of 20 Old 10-04-2011, 04:09 PM
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Backlight is just a lighting method. one is no more or less accurate due to the backlight after calibration
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post #5 of 20 Old 10-04-2011, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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But LEDs provide a whiter backlight which means it should provide a wider color gamut. I'm going to buy the LG 42PK450 and hope it's good.
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post #6 of 20 Old 10-04-2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chroncile View Post

But LEDs provide a whiter backlight which means it should provide a wider color gamut. I'm going to buy the LG 42PK450 and hope it's good.

I'm not sure what you mean by whiter. There is only one correct white point (D65), and this should look the same on any well calibrated display, regardless of the color gamut or backlight.

If you mean brighter, then yes, LED backlights can be that.
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post #7 of 20 Old 10-04-2011, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by slb View Post

I'm not sure what you mean by whiter. There is only one correct white point (D65), and this should look the same on any well calibrated display, regardless of the color gamut or backlight.

If you mean brighter, then yes, LED backlights can be that.

Which is true but all back lights including ccfl are capable of blinding you like the sun so you dont need a LED backlight unless its of course a better set.

Which usually would mean a local dimmer or features you need.
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post #8 of 20 Old 10-04-2011, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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By whiter, I mean it provides a purer source of white light. White light contains all the colors ours eyes can see and the more pure the backlight on a LCD TV, the wider the color gamut.
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post #9 of 20 Old 10-04-2011, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chroncile View Post

By whiter, I mean it provides a purer source of white light. White light contains all the colors ours eyes can see and the more pure the backlight on a LCD TV, the wider the color gamut.

This is not necessarily the case. The only light that is used by any display (with the exception of the Sharp Quattrons) is red, green, and blue. The other colors just get "thrown away." A wider gamut only means that each primary color is more saturated and really doesn't have anything to do with the "purity" of white. This is why RGB LED-based displays have such wide gamuts - the primaries are super saturated. In fact, many light sources put out a spectral distribution of light that is proportionally significantly different than what is needed for D65 white.

I'm not sure I understand why you want the widest gamut possible in the first place?

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post #10 of 20 Old 10-04-2011, 05:50 PM
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I pretty much think he just wants us to agree with him and justify. Hes incorrect. And thats about it. We have told him how it works.
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post #11 of 20 Old 10-04-2011, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

I pretty much think he just wants us to agree with him and justify. Hes incorrect. And thats about it. We have told him how it works.

No, I just wanted to clarify how LCD TVs work. I don't know how they work. The only thing I know is that they use a white backlight to get the colors.

So let me get this straight, an LCD TV only uses RGB to produce the colors, right? So that means that an LED-LCD TV will produce the same colors, but the primaries will be over saturated so it won't end up producing a very accurate image, is this right? So then will a properly calibrated CCFL-LCD TV will look the same as an LED-LCD TV? In other words, the picture quality between a CCFL-LCD TV and an LED-LCD TV are the same. Is this true?

I'm confused here. Please let me know if this is true or not.
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post #12 of 20 Old 10-04-2011, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chroncile View Post

No, I just wanted to clarify how LCD TVs work. I don't know how they work. The only thing I know is that they use a white backlight to get the colors.

So let me get this straight, an LCD TV only uses RGB to produce the colors, right? So that means that an LED-LCD TV will produce the same colors, but the primaries will be over saturated so it won't end up producing a very accurate image, is this right? So then will a properly calibrated CCFL-LCD TV will look the same as an LED-LCD TV? In other words, the picture quality between a CCFL-LCD TV and an LED-LCD TV are the same. Is this true?

I'm confused here. Please let me know if this is true or not.

There is a backlight. That lights the panel. The panel then uses that light to light up the R,G,B pixels in the screen. The screen itself is going to do much more with the color accuracy of the set than anything else. The backlight is going to be more about how bright it can get than anything else and ccfl is terribly bright when cranked and LED is brighter. Only problem is calibrated is only 35 FTL white anyway so you dont need a brighter light.

Going from there, LED tends to be edge lit which means uniformity issues abound. Much more than current CCFL sets. So honestly unless the LED set has at least edge lit local dimming or preferably full array led local dimming your better of with a ccfl set as far as image quality goes.
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post #13 of 20 Old 10-04-2011, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike View Post

There is a backlight. That lights the panel. The panel then uses that light to light up the R,G,B pixels in the screen. The screen itself is going to do much more with the color accuracy of the set than anything else. The backlight is going to be more about how bright it can get than anything else and ccfl is terribly bright when cranked and LED is brighter. Only problem is calibrated is only 35 FTL white anyway so you dont need a brighter light.

Going from there, LED tends to be edge lit which means uniformity issues abound. Much more than current CCFL sets. So honestly unless the LED set has at least edge lit local dimming or preferably full array led local dimming your better of with a ccfl set as far as image quality goes.

Okay, thanks. So other than black levels, a CCFL-LCD TV will produce the same picture quality as an LED-LCD TV.

So then how does an LCD TV compare to a Plasma? When both are properly calibrated, which produces the better picture?
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post #14 of 20 Old 10-04-2011, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chroncile View Post

Okay, thanks. So other than black levels, a CCFL-LCD TV will produce the same picture quality as an LED-LCD TV.

So then how does an LCD TV compare to a Plasma? When both are properly calibrated, which produces the better picture?

In a day room with curtain open light or a lamp lit room an lcd performs better than a plasma. In a darkened room the plasma is better.

I dont know current edge lit and ccfl backlit lcd black levels or plasmas. I only know that last years ex500 ccfl sony set performs at about the same to slightly better than last years sammy plasma and a little better than last years panny after the black level has risen.

This year I don't think black rise much if at all on a panny plasma.

Calibrated they both look great. I appreciate brighter white, tighter dot pitch(sharper cleaner), no flicker, no abl, no glossy screen, no worry if I game 12 hrs or fall asleep with espn on, image of an lcd. your opinion may vary
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post #15 of 20 Old 10-04-2011, 11:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, thanks for the help. I'm going to purchase the LG 42LK450 and hope it's good. Just one question, how do can you tell if an LED TV is using white leds or RGB leds?
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post #16 of 20 Old 10-05-2011, 06:12 AM
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Wow, three posts and you were ready to pull the trigger. I think serialmike was right, that you have already made up your mind and just want validation for your choice.

Go buy your LG and hope they have a liberal return policy in case you don't like it.

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post #17 of 20 Old 10-05-2011, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chroncile View Post

Okay, thanks for the help. I'm going to purchase the LG 42LK450 and hope it's good. Just one question, how do can you tell if an LED TV is using white leds or RGB leds?

They're all white LEDs now. "White" LEDs really being blue LEDs with a phosphor coating that creates white but that's probably more than you wanted to know Anyway, Sony made a RGB set a few years ago, as did Sharp, but everyone is just doing whites now.

jeff
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post #18 of 20 Old 10-05-2011, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

Wow, three posts and you were ready to pull the trigger. I think serialmike was right, that you have already made up your mind and just want validation for your choice.

Go buy your LG and hope they have a liberal return policy in case you don't like it.

Okay what the heck? Now I'm even more confused than before. I like LG TVs and this LG model, the PK450 has many great reviews online:

http://www.amazon.com/LG-42LK450-42-.../dp/B004OOQ8CW
http://www.amazon.com/LG-37LK450-37-.../dp/B004OOS34S
http://www.amazon.com/LG-32LK450-32-.../dp/B004OVEUQQ

There's also a thread on this forum about the PK450 and some people posted their calibration settings which I plan on using. Here is the thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1327825

And here is one calibration settings:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...8&postcount=24

So I don't understand, should I buy the LG 42PK450 or not? I asked what the difference between CCFL-LCD and LED-LCD TVs were and I was told that the brightness is higher on the LED TV, but color reproduction is the same.

BTW, I've been looking at the PK450 for over 2 months and I've read countless reviews and saw three videos of it in action. Also, my price range is around $500 and the LG 42PK450 is the best TV I could find. I plan on using the TV for games, movies and TV shows. I don't need more than 60 Hz because it increase the response time and makes the image look artificial.

So what should I do? I'm really confused here.
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post #19 of 20 Old 10-06-2011, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Please help, I'm really confused here.
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post #20 of 20 Old 10-06-2011, 06:58 PM
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Do you understand color gamut now with relation to calibrated REC709 or sRGB? It is not about vibrant color. Otherwise I think most branded models should be fine for you.

I've read posts that PK450 is great for static like PC and pictures because it does not chroma subsample ie maintain 4:4:4, which is unusual for a TV.
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