The Completely Unofficial Apple Television thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 06:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Seems as good a time as any to start a new thread about this as speculation is bubbling once again based on tidbits from the new Jobs bio, an accumulation of UI and related tech patent filings, etc.

I still don't think it super likely, but on the other hand I can't rule it out. 40" and 50" models seem easily doable. Maybe 55". Wonder if they'd play in the big (65"+) leagues? They have a preposterous amount of cash which they can sling around in order to guarantee a solid supply of latest gen panels. Hell, they could build their own next gen fab if they really wanted to!

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post #2 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 10:36 AM
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I just dont see Apple wanting to be in the TV market.

Apple's biggest successes have come in markets that were still relatively small and untapped like the mp3 and smartphone markets. The TV market is more akin the PC market. It is heavily saturated with competitors both high and low end.

If they did a tv, I assume what it would amount to would be something with a built in apple tv 2. It would be interesting to see what Apple would claim as an advantage versus the other high end manufacturers (Apple TVs wont be cheap, so it will certainly be going up against the best from Sony, Sharp, LG, etc) other than media through itunes or their market.

Nothing is impossible, but it just doesnt seem to fit in with Apple's gameplan so far.
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post #3 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 10:52 AM
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Trooper --- There will be an Apple TV line - it was a project Steve Jobs was involved in before he passed according to his biography I saw posted today.

Apple has partnerships with at least LG and Sharp - they heavily invested in Sharp to retrofit one of the Kayama plant to build Ipads/phone glass instead of TV's and Saiki has the capacity to partner with Apple in TV's since Sony failed to expand with their original plans at that plant and it's the same plant building the Elites and all their large panels and has production capacity far beyond any other system globally as it cost over 5 billion to produce. Considering the huge investment Apple made with Sharp it's unlikelyy it's all going towards just Ipad/IPhone components. I have nothing confirming Sharp will be a provider but based upon capacity and the amount Apple has already provided to Sharp it makes a lot of sense that it goes beyond the present product lines.

Apple could take on what Sony decided to forego. Sony has been looking to partner in Taiwan and China and unlikely you'd ever see an Apple TV product on crap rebadge glass from Taiwan/China.

Unlikely it'll be Samsung as they are continually suing each other.

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post #4 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 10:53 AM
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agree with the post by trooper. I do not think apple will really try to enter the TV market unless they really believe what they has to offer will completely change the way we think about TV.

but if they do decide to make one...what would they include in it?

1. apple tv 2/3 - which anyone can get for an extra 100 dollars
2. mac/ipad app store - quite unnecessary for a TV other than playing some games
3. probably a complete iOS specially built for TV with itunes/mac integration
4. make it look pretty :P
5. add passive 3d probably
6. built in DVR/cable box or something

i know jobs said he cracked a very simple formula about an idea regarding how TV should be but i can't think of anything else someone might want on a TV. TV always will be a medium for watching channels/movies on it. adding more stuffs in it not a necessity but more of a luxury. So how exactly can Apple change that perception? by near flawless picture quality?? there are already tvs like that out there...just have to willing to spend a lot for them. and not to forget the tv apple will come up with will itself be pricey.

so i dont see this happening unless cook gets desperate enough to get out of job's shadow by launching a new line of products. BUT in the end apple generally always have something unexpected up their sleeves which ends up surprising everyone. so i am hoping they do come up with some revolutionary idea
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post #5 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 11:27 AM
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I don't know. With more and more people wanting to connect their laptops or HTPCs to their big screen tv's to do whatever they want, I would think that Apple is seriously considering it. They do seem to have their fingers on the pulse of what people want (or think they want). I could see a 50" Apple LCD HDTV with built-in WiFi (with an external Thunderbolt DVR as an option), all the requisite Apple apps, and seamless integration with the rest of your Apple devices... I can sort of do that now with our MBP via HDMI on the 47" LG and it looks amazing, but it's a hassle with the cable etc. However, coming home in the evening, picking up the remote and with one or two clicks reading my email, checking the web, or watching the evening news/favorite shows on a crystal clear 50" set......
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post #6 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 12:02 PM
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This is an excellent article on Jobs' thought about the Apple TV. Said he "cracked it."

Half of the people here think about the TV technology, OLED blah-blah but that's not it at all, if u read the above article, it's about making it a viable business for everyone involved, and for Apple, a formula for bringing what Apple is famous for: seamless integration, ez of use + giving everybody a piece of the pie (content providers support critical) and bring all that as a complete package at a affordable price for the consumer.

Lots of people here, today can already get what you need, but you have multiple devices, multiple sources, multiple providers etc. What Apple will do, if they enter the market, is a way to bring all these under a single umbrella, with an ez and consistent interface for the non-geek.
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post #7 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper11 View Post

I just dont see Apple wanting to be in the TV market.

Nothing is impossible, but it just doesnt seem to fit in with Apple's gameplan so far.

Easy, I could see them fully intergrate the ipad1/2 to become the remote for the tv. DVR access anywhere with the ipad/iphone. Stream everything directly from ipad to the tv. Have the tv download triva your ipad when watching tv shows or movies. The possibilities are endless.
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post #8 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Shirtin View Post

Easy, I could see them fully intergrate the ipad1/2 to become the remote for the tv. DVR access anywhere with the ipad/iphone. Stream everything directly from ipad to the tv. Have the tv download triva your ipad when watching tv shows or movies. The possibilities are endless.

I just read an article and it looks like Siri might be the one that will act as DVR controller.

Bloomberg also quotes Piper’s Munster who believes that the HDTV is in prototype, due out late next year or 2013. He also postulates that the Apple TV will have Siri and iCloud functionality. Siri would act as the controller (think Kinect) and iCloud would help deliver user’s content.

http://9to5mac.com/2011/10/24/apples...r-jeff-robbin/
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post #9 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 02:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBobb View Post

This is an excellent article on Jobs' thought about the Apple TV. Said he "cracked it."

Half of the people here think about the TV technology, OLED blah-blah but that's not it at all, if u read the above article, it's about making it a viable business for everyone involved, and for Apple, a formula for bringing what Apple is famous for: seamless integration, ez of use + giving everybody a piece of the pie (content providers support critical) and bring all that as a complete package at a affordable price for the consumer.

Lots of people here, today can already get what you need, but you have multiple devices, multiple sources, multiple providers etc. What Apple will do, if they enter the market, is a way to bring all these under a single umbrella, with an ez and consistent interface for the non-geek.

Yeah, I think Apple TV was more a way for Apple to control content more than some revolutionary display tech. My guess would be they would set up streaming service and you would pay per channel or per content. They would strong arm the movie and TV stations the same way he did the music industry and set fixed prices.
The actual tech part of it would probably be voice control, complete integration with all your other Apple mobile devices. They will undoubtedly charge a huge premium like all Apple product for simple, easy to use, cutting edge design. So, it most likely will be best tech available when it goes into production. Which means 60"-80" size, maybe 4k resolution to match the new base Intel graphic chips, and they might as well throw in glasses free 3D and built in video phone through iCall.
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post #10 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 02:38 PM
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I guess the guys above who say an Apple TV will never happen didn't watch 60 Minutes Sunday night. Probably playing video games or something...
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post #11 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

I guess the guys above who say an Apple TV will never happen didn't watch 60 Minutes Sunday night. Probably playing video games or something...

We usually watch it, Jim. But Sunday was World Series time in Arlington!!!

So, what did they say?
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post #12 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by hughh View Post

We usually watch it, Jim. But Sunday was World Series time in Arlington!!!

So, what did they say?

It was a long & interesting TV "article" Hugh. In a nutshell, they said that Jobs was a brilliant SOB who had a habit of rubbing people the wrong way, even to the point of parking in handicapped parking places before he became sick. They also said that he hoped to have an Apple TV become a reality before his death. I think CBS may have the entire program on its website and also NBC has done some major stories on Steve Jobs.

Don't wish you any bad luck, Hugh, but other than the "Brooklyn" Dodgers, the Cardinals have been one of my favorite teams. I have to admit, though, that I don't follow baseball like I used to. So, it wouldn't cause me to lose any sleep if the Rangers won. I've actually watched some of all of the games, but not all of any of them.
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post #13 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 04:25 PM
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Jim,

No way you can wish me bad luck. I have been a Cardinals fan since 1946 when they beat your Dodgers on a 1 game tie breaker for the pennant. I even considered retiring in STL when it came time to leave the Air Force. As it turned out, the Washington Senators moved to Arlington in '72 and we followed in '77. Even built our home 2 1/2 miles from the ballpark.

I'll have to check out the CBS website. My first computer was an Apple IIGS way back in 1983-4. It was a special edition we purchased at the Base Exchange and it had the autograph of both Apple Steves. Wish I would've kept it, might be worth something.
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post #14 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 05:45 PM
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I'll have to check out the CBS website. My first computer was an Apple IIGS way back in 1983-4. It was a special edition we purchased at the Base Exchange and it had the autograph of both Apple Steves. Wish I would've kept it, might be worth something.

The original 128k Mac had the signatures of the original Apple development team, including both Steve's embossed on the inside case. I still have that one including about 3 or 4 other iterations of the Mac over the years. We are now just laptop-based but a fully integrated Apple family. I use the Win7 laptops here for logging in to work. Best of both worlds

The 60 minutes program was very interesting and I highly recommend watching it. But back OT, the Apple HDTV will happen in all likelyhood. If anyone can integrate home entertainment into one sleek, sexy set, Apple will.
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post #15 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 05:47 PM
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As someone mentioned, SIRI is likely to be a big selling point of any AppleTV. One of the things that Jobs had been quoted as saying was "unruly" the control aspects of home theater was. While I love my Harmony, I can envision a day (sooner than later) where I walk into my living room and simply say "Siri, turn on ESPN live, but record all episodes of Mad Men for me." Or "Siri, I want to listen to music now. Fire up some Dylan for me." Or "Siri, tell me when the Packers are on tv next." Or "Siri, call my mother on FaceTime for me." No remote controls at all (except maybe an iPad app for big tweaks).

I also hope that someone (be it Apple or whoever) cracks the nut and gives us true a la carte channels. Say something like $4.99 per channel.
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post #16 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

The original 128k Mac had the signatures of the original Apple development team, including both Steve's embossed on the inside case. I still have that one including about 3 or 4 other iterations of the Mac over the years. We are now just laptop-based but a fully integrated Apple family. I use the Win7 laptops here for logging in to work. Best of both worlds

The 60 minutes program was very interesting and I highly recommend watching it. But back OT, the Apple HDTV will happen in all likelyhood. If anyone can integrate home entertainment into one sleek, sexy set, Apple will.

Otto,

Your posts have led me to believe that you are a very wise young man...I was right! :-)
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post #17 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bvandenzen View Post

As someone mentioned, SIRI is likely to be a big selling point of any AppleTV. One of the things that Jobs had been quoted as saying was "unruly" the control aspects of home theater was. While I love my Harmony, I can envision a day (sooner than later) where I walk into my living room and simply say "Siri, turn on ESPN live, but record all episodes of Mad Men for me." Or "Siri, I want to listen to music now. Fire up some Dylan for me." Or "Siri, tell me when the Packers are on tv next." Or "Siri, call my mother on FaceTime for me." No remote controls at all (except maybe an iPad app for big tweaks).

I also hope that someone (be it Apple or whoever) cracks the nut and gives us true a la carte channels. Say something like $4.99 per channel.

A few points:
- (I'm a big Apple fan, but) in order to simplify the experience, my bet is that if Apple proceeds with this, they leave out a lot of functionality that people on a site like this one might desire - like most of the picture/sound adjustments.

- Apple is (and especially Jobs was) a control freak, so forget about accessing ISF controls to calibrate.

- Therefore, I can see an Apple TV having a great picture, but not necessarily an accurate picture and therefore, people on sites like this one will criticize the hell out of it.

- I can see an Apple TV leaving out most, if not all, of the HDMI inputs so it won't connect to a receiver or a Blu-ray player.

- I can see an Apple TV solving all the sync problems to bring iPhone, iPad, computer content to the TV.

- I can see Apple solving the remote control issues, although the resulting controls would be quite simple. And I can see Siri playing a hugh role in this.

- One issue is that an iPad or iPhone cannot turn the the power on a traditional TV without additional hardware because the command is sent over the network and the TV doesn't recognize input from the network when it's off, however if the TV were only "sleeping" this could work.

- I don't think that Apple can become an MSO (a multiple systems operator like a cable company) because the MSO and satellite deals already in place would probably prevent it. And Jobs always said it was impossible to deal with the plethora of cable companies. But maybe an Apple TV could take the signal from the cable line or cable box and "reinterpret" it so that the channels and selection could be far better organized. For example, why do I currently have to manually deprogram the SD channels when I have the equivalent HD channels? That should happen automatically. I should be able to remap channels, which I was able to do in the early days of Cable TV.

- If they can take in all the cable company offerings (including descrambling), maybe an interface could be more like coverflow with live animation. You can scroll through and pick the show you want. Or maybe that signal wirelessly feeds back to your iPad remote control and you see and choose the live shows from there.

Etc.

Personally, I'd rather see Apple develop a super remote control app that is easily customizable and far superior in presentation and ease of programming than the other remote control solutions presently out there.

I'm sure there are plenty of functions that an Apple TV might have that I'm too unenlightened to have thought of, but failing anything magical, I don't see, aside from what I've written above, what Apple brings to the party. And I see as many disadvantages as advantages.
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post #18 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 07:10 PM
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With Jobs around, it was not going to happen, but now, I wish this product comes with a Kinetic-like interface. The new Apple gang is proly more pragmatic.
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post #19 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by hughh View Post

Otto,

Your posts have led me to believe that you are a very wise young man...I was right! :-)

Thank you. However, I'm neither young (the kids are in college) and the jury is still out on wise (unless you count the Apple stock I still own), but thank you none the less
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post #20 of 50 Old 10-25-2011, 11:26 PM
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I'm sure if (more likely when) it happens, it will be a very interesting product. But let's not give Apple credit where it isn't due. Apple has never been about having the "best" or most technologically advanced product; in fact, they generally lag behind windows computers or say, android handsets in terms of raw computing power. They've always been about the experience, the interface, and how those can embody simplicity in practical use. I'm sure it will feature gorgeous industrial design, great interface, and integrated, expanded, and improved features from the Apple TV, iPhone, and iPad and the general apple ecosystem. But knowing Apple, I doubt they'll try to cater to the videophile market - it will probably not be seriously entertained as a potential purchase by most members of this forum. I highly doubt they'd eschew traditional A/V ins like HDMI, because that would just be shooting themselves in the foot in a market where they would be the underdog. I'm sure they'd add in some Apple-centric inputs, e.g. DisplayPort, Thunderbolt, maybe an integrated dock connector, who knows. I'd love to see it come to fruition solely out of curiosity.

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post #21 of 50 Old 10-26-2011, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper11 View Post

I just dont see Apple wanting to be in the TV market.

Apple's biggest successes have come in markets that were still relatively small and untapped like the mp3 and smartphone markets. The TV market is more akin the PC market. It is heavily saturated with competitors both high and low end.

If they did a tv, I assume what it would amount to would be something with a built in apple tv 2. It would be interesting to see what Apple would claim as an advantage versus the other high end manufacturers (Apple TVs wont be cheap, so it will certainly be going up against the best from Sony, Sharp, LG, etc) other than media through itunes or their market.

Nothing is impossible, but it just doesnt seem to fit in with Apple's gameplan so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isrararrafi View Post

agree with the post by trooper. I do not think apple will really try to enter the TV market unless they really believe what they has to offer will completely change the way we think about TV.
--snip--
so i dont see this happening unless cook gets desperate enough to get out of job's shadow by launching a new line of products. BUT in the end apple generally always have something unexpected up their sleeves which ends up surprising everyone. so i am hoping they do come up with some revolutionary idea[

We already talked about it 3 months ago in another thread and met with much skepticism.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post20761581

But to be skeptical about the Job's INTENT after the biography is out really sets it up to another level. Whether the TV will actually materialize is another matter under the new team, but I wouldn't say that is Cook's idea.
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post #22 of 50 Old 10-26-2011, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

Apple has never been about having the "best" or most technologically advanced product; in fact, they generally lag behind windows computers or say, android handsets in terms of raw computing power. They've always been about the experience, the interface, and how those can embody simplicity in practical use.

We are well into the 21st century, everybody should know this by now. Even Intel stopped "chasing the numbers."
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post #23 of 50 Old 10-27-2011, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MrBobb View Post

We are well into the 21st century, everybody should know this by now. Even Intel stopped "chasing the numbers."

You ain't kidding! Let's take a look at this article:


Apple exploring 3D gestures to control devices from a distance
By Neil Hughes
Published: 09:12 AM EST (06:12 AM PST)

Apple is investigating new ways of interacting with devices, such as using hand gestures to navigate and control a video recording system without touching anything.

Apple's interest in hands-off control of a device like an iPhone, iPad or Mac was revealed this week in a new patent application made public by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. Entitled "Real Time Video Process Control Using Gestures," the filing, discovered by AppleInsider, is related to remotely controlling and editing video recordings on a mobile device.

Such editing could be done with gestures on a touchscreen, much like is already available on the iPhone and iPad. But within the application, Apple also makes mention of hand gestures that can be performed without touching the device.

The filing notes that a device could be controlled with hand gestures accomplished in either two or three dimensions, and these could be interpreted through infrared sensors, optical sensors, or other methods. These gestures could be used as a replacement for, or even in concert with, traditional touchscreen-based gestures.

"As with the touch based gestures applied on or near the touch sensitive input device, the hand gestures can be interpreted to provide instructions for real time processing of the video by the video capture device," the filing reads.

Complete article, here:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._distance.html
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post #24 of 50 Old 10-27-2011, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post

Thank you. However, I'm neither young (the kids are in college) and the jury is still out on wise (unless you count the Apple stock I still own), but thank you none the less

Otto - "young" is relative...you have children in college, I have grandchildren in college. :-) BTW, I see some of your posts accrediting the excellent Bloomberg News. I just saw a very interesting article, not having anything with the subject of Apple TV, but one that could help members here obtain great information:

Bloomberg TV app lets anyone with an iPad watch 24-hour live*broadcast

In a move differing from many of their competitors, Bloomberg TV has decided to provide their 24-hour live broadcast in a new Bloomberg TV+ app. The company, which is*supported by the world’s largest international news bureau network with 146 bureaus in 72 countries,*announced Thursday that the live stream would be made available subscription-free to all iPad owners. This varies from other content providers on the iPad such as CNN who reserve their live stream for specific subscription holders. The app will support streaming in both landscape and portrait view and also include featured videos for the day’s biggest stories, exclusive interviews, and a selection of Bloomberg programming on demand. You will also have access to all content from the last 24 hours and content produced specifically for mobile.

This will definitely be a welcome addition to Bloomberg TV content on the iPad, as up until now pulling up flash-based video content on the Bloomberg site obviously provides you with the typical “video is not encoded for playback on this device” as seen in the image below.

Other added features include the ability to download videos for offline viewing, search the content library, schedule reminders for upcoming shows, and share via the usual social networks. You can even customize Bloomberg’s familiar scrolling ticker. Grab the free Bloomberg TV+ app from the App Store now, full release notes from iTunes below.

Bloomberg Television is a 24-hour global business & financial news network that is watched by the most affluent and influential viewers in the world. It is supported by the world’s largest international news bureau network with 146 bureaus in 72 countries.

Complete article here: http://9to5mac.com/2011/10/27/bloomb...ive-broadcast/
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post #25 of 50 Old 10-27-2011, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by hughh View Post

Otto - "young" is relative...you have children in college, I have grandchildren in college. :-) BTW, I see some of your posts accrediting the excellent Bloomberg News. I just saw a very interesting article, not having anything with the subject of Apple TV, but one that could help members here obtain great information:

relative for sure No grand kids yet so I haven't quite achieved your status

My son has an iPad and he mentioned the Bloomberg app. Seemed kinda excited about it so I'm sure he'll install it so "we" can check it out.
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post #26 of 50 Old 10-27-2011, 10:16 AM
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relative for sure No grand kids yet so I haven't quite achieved your status

My son has an iPad and he mentioned the Bloomberg app. Seemed kinda excited about it so I'm sure he'll install it so "we" can check it out.

Please let us know how the app works. Unfortunately, I have a macbook and my wife has the iPad. I'm not about to try to pry the iPad from her hands, that and the new 4S iPhone are her babies...peace in the family!
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post #27 of 50 Old 10-27-2011, 12:05 PM
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Yeah, I think Apple TV was more a way for Apple to control content more than some revolutionary display tech. My guess would be they would set up streaming service and you would pay per channel or per content. They would strong arm the movie and TV stations the same way he did the music industry and set fixed prices.
The actual tech part of it would probably be voice control, complete integration with all your other Apple mobile devices. They will undoubtedly charge a huge premium like all Apple product for simple, easy to use, cutting edge design. So, it most likely will be best tech available when it goes into production. Which means 60"-80" size, maybe 4k resolution to match the new base Intel graphic chips, and they might as well throw in glasses free 3D and built in video phone through iCall.

this may be their actual plan. do to television content what the ipod did to music content. if pay per viewing streaming is their ultimate goal, say goodbye to netflix.

neflixis our nemesis
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post #28 of 50 Old 10-27-2011, 12:22 PM
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Please let us know how the app works. Unfortunately, I have a macbook and my wife has the iPad. I'm not about to try to pry the iPad from her hands, that and the new 4S iPhone are her babies...peace in the family!

I too have a MacBook (and a iTouch4G). My son has the iPhone 3GS, MacBook Pro, and iPad. I'll let you know.
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post #29 of 50 Old 10-27-2011, 12:26 PM
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this may be their actual plan. do to television content what the ipod did to music content. if pay per viewing streaming is their ultimate goal, say goodbye to netflix.

Yep. As it is now, we stream Netflix thru the AppleTV2 even though we can stream it as well from the BD player. The interface just seems nicer on the ATV2. It's also very nice to stream our iTunes library thru the ATV2 and play the audio thru the HTS.
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post #30 of 50 Old 10-27-2011, 12:34 PM
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- I don't think that Apple can become an MSO (a multiple systems operator like a cable company) because the MSO and satellite deals already in place would probably prevent it. And Jobs always said it was impossible to deal with the plethora of cable companies. But maybe an Apple TV could take the signal from the cable line or cable box and "reinterpret" it so that the channels and selection could be far better organized. For example, why do I currently have to manually deprogram the SD channels when I have the equivalent HD channels? That should happen automatically. I should be able to remap channels, which I was able to do in the early days of Cable TV.

- If they can take in all the cable company offerings (including descrambling), maybe an interface could be more like coverflow with live animation. You can scroll through and pick the show you want. Or maybe that signal wirelessly feeds back to your iPad remote control and you see and choose the live shows from there.

Right now, the only real way to do this is with a CableCARD. No new tv's being sold have CableCARD slots on them any more because of how finnicky and difficult the technology is. The original CableCARD tv's won't even work with many of the cable companies now because of new technologies they've developed. Tivo, Moxi, and Windows Media Center can all do these things to various degrees, but have not caught on because of how non user friendly the technology is. It flies completely in the face of Apple's intuitive easy to use philosophy. A CableCARD w/ tuning adapters just might not work and require the whole thing be power cycled. That does not sound like an Apple product. It leaves too much up to chance and does not offer a guaranteed experience.

What I can see is signing agreements like what Microsoft is doing with the forthcoming Xbox update. It will allow an Xbox to act as a Verizon Fios cable box, and will allow Comcast subscribers access to On Demand.

The end goal of an "iTV" is to sell you a fancy remote (ipad), fancy media storage (time capsule), and media (iTunes).

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