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post #31 of 161 Old 01-09-2012, 05:37 PM
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Slightly OT, as this is a Samsung OLED thread. But one neat little detail in Samsung's new line of LCD Smart TV's which are run on Dual Core CPU, is that the TV's "Brain" can be upgraded by user when something more powerful comes along. No need to by a new TV when newer TV's get better processors. Hope we see more of such "modularity".
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post #32 of 161 Old 01-09-2012, 05:51 PM
 
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^Geeze, never before would I care to upgrade my TV's processor. I guess if you need it to bake bread and a whole host of other functions, that might be important (but not for those who just want a pure picture).
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post #33 of 161 Old 01-09-2012, 06:38 PM
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All I care about is pq, if oled can deliver on that, I'm sold. Till then...

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post #34 of 161 Old 01-09-2012, 06:44 PM
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" ... Apple ... has invested heavily in LG's OLED capacity some time ago. According to reports Apple has invested around $800 million US dollars in LG's OLED division.
Even though the new 4.5 AMOLED plant is able to manufacture OLED-TV panels, it's not perfect for a large scale OLED-TV roll-out. LG is also building an 8 generation OLED plant that should be ready for mass production in 2013. An 8G plant or higher is required for mass production of TV panels." - http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1296654131

NO WAY Samsung gonna just sit and watch at this!
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post #35 of 161 Old 01-09-2012, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B View Post

What does rogo know about the plants Panasonic, Samsung and LG have?

If you've read the threads, you can find lots of links showing all 3 of them making major investment in OLED lines of manufacture for TV sized panels.

No, you can't.

Samsung is trialing 8G and has 5.5G. They haven't yet committed to a full-scale 8G plant. You'll know if they do because (a) they'll actually announce it (b) spec, slacker and others who are interested in this for investment reasons will be all over it.

LG hasn't announced any major investment. We have some combination of the Apple rumor, talk of "converting" an existing line (which makes no sense with OLED isn't LCD, and LG doesn't currently even make IGZO backplanes).

Panasonic is playing with a 6G trial line (if memory serves).

So, yeah, rogo clearly knows nothing.
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It's not like Samsung, Sony, LG, and others aren't using OLED in lots of devices already.

Well, Samsung is certainly in the Galaxy phone line. Sony? The stillborn PS Vita, the not-really-related head-mounted display, and the tiny production broadcast sets. Anything I missed there? Nothing substantial. Kinda like LG, which is using OLED for nothing substantial at the moment.
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PS, this is exactly how LCD TVs came to be. Do you suppose they just suddenly made 90 inch LCD tvs? No, it was 3 inch LCDs then 4 inch then 5 inch then 6 inch then 7 inch etc etc etc.

Actually, it wasn't. LCDs sprung out of the laptop/desktop monitor market. It is certainly true that incremental size increases were the norm in LCD as motherglass went from 3G to 4G.... all the way 10G. Ironically, this in no way parallels OLED, where the major producers are trying to leapfrog all the way to 8G and to 55" diagonal sets.
Quote:


Samsung already could make a 55inch TV in the current manufacturing line they already have. The question isn't CAN the make it, the question is how fast can they improve and lower manufacturing costs.

This shows how much you don't know. Samsung can, in fact, technically manufacture 55" TVs on the existing 5.5G line. Whether they can make them at any reasonable profit/price/yield, however, is something you have no idea about. It's fairly likely that they'd never, ever be able to improve yields and costs sufficiently on the 5.5G production to make a profit on 55" TVs at any interesting market prices.

The 8G work has a fundamental technical problem involving the production method they've used to date. The masks they use tend to "sag" onto the substrate causing horrible yields as unusable panels come rolling off the line. Now, Samsung is confident that they have solutions to thin, including replacing FMM (fine metal mask) with SMS (small mask scanning). This has never been tested at production volumes. They need to tell the world they are confident this is going to work and allow them to mass produce OLED TVs, but they don't actually know that it will. If they were 100% sure, they wouldn't have made recent comments indicating that approaches like LG's were still under consideration for volume prouction.

You can interpret this however you want, I really don't care, but the fact remains: It is not actually a given that anyone can mass produce 55" OLED TVs at affordable prices. It is likely that all of these production problems will be solved in time, but it's not 100% certain. This isn't mature technology where we can know the problems will be "fixable".

There were times where larger LCD television production was also in this boat. It took innovations in production that were not givens to make such production viable. They did occur and we all have benefited. History's likelihood of repeating itself should not be confused with history's certainty of repeating itself.
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Sony sold the PS3 for multiple years at a loss. Most new companies lose money for multiple years before they turn a profit.

Not related at all. Game player makers expect to make money on software. Breaking even on hardware is only the eventual goal. TVs are a one-shot purchase. There are no economics by which you sell those at a loss. Ask Sony, Panasonic, Sharp, Pioneer, LG and others. Hell, ask Samsung -- even their TV business is not really making much profit.
Quote:


There's zero chance OLED isn't coming to a TV near you. TV sales growth is flat. 3D hasn't pushed sales like they wanted. Every manufacturer is looking for something to spure sales. LG and Samsung think OLED can do it.

There is a huge chance OLED isn't coming to a TV near you anytime soon. It appears we are going to another year where even if OLED ships -- and that's a big if based on the CES news -- we are looking at something under 0.1% of the market. I suspect TV sales growth will be turning negative soon.

The problem for LG and Samsung is that if they believe that $8000 TVs are going to spur growth, they need to check into the nearest rehab center.
Quote:


OLED TVs will be larger and less expensive then the first Plasma TVs. You know plasma TVs? Those TV sets nobody said would make it because they where to expensive?

We've discussed this dozens of times. When there was no flat panel TV on the market, you could charge a king's ransom for them. When people were buying their first HDTV's, you could charge a king's ransom for them. Hell, when it was still 2000 and the full effect of the dot-com/telecom bust wasn't yet understood, you could charge a lot more for things too.

The first Pioneer 50" was $25,000. A few years later the best 50" was a Fujitsu that was about $10,000. They went out of business trying to sell those. A few years after that, Pioneer went out of business trying to sell state-of-the-art 50" TVs for just half that. There is no $5000 TV market anymore. It's gone. You know, a really good laptop was over $5000 10 years ago too. If Dell or HP -- or even Apple -- tried to sell anything at that price these days (yes, yes, you can spec one like that.. and 1 in 10,000 of people do), you'd be laughed at.

I'm on record here that by the time you can buy these, the gap between the OLEDs and the best LCDs (or PDPs) is going to be small. Most people will honestly find the picture quality difference subtle. And, apparently, the thinness, bezel-free-ness, etc. will also be subtle.

The chicken-and-egg problem here is the same as it was: You can't sell them cheaply enough up to ramp production. Without ramping production, you can't drive your costs down. Without driving costs down, you can't sell them cheaply enough. And so it goes.

How do you solve this? It's just downright adorable the suggestion that "they go lose money for a few years and make it up later". The only display manufacturer that could actually afford to do that without going bankrupt is Samsung and they'd have to use mobile phone profits -- not display profits -- to subsidize their display business to pull it off. Not going to happen.

Instead, what's much more likely is a slow ramp of OLED production, a slow lowering of prices, a slow ramp, a slow lowering of prices, over and over until pricing eventually gets down near enough to parity that the industry can collectively decide whether to ultimately really make the investments required to replace the half a billion monitors and TVs currently being made annually that use LCDs with a majority of OLEDs. We are quite a ways from that.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #36 of 161 Old 01-10-2012, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

CMI and AUO have even less chance of actually producing OLEDs soon than LG and Samsung, however. Not to say they won't get there (I suspect, in fact, that the more progress Samsung and LG make, the more it will benefit AUO and CMI), but it probably won't be especially soon.

It'd be nice if one of them specifically went after computer monitors.

I, too, would love to see somebody target computer monitors. But with IPADs and other such screens on the rise, I'm starting to wonder about the viability of a computer monitor market in anything below 30" (as far as dramatic investment in new technology).

I would also like to say, for the record, that I value your input and always jump to your posts first when browsing for information.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by CATYPH202 View Post

" ... Apple ... has invested heavily in LG's OLED capacity some time ago. According to reports Apple has invested around $800 million US dollars in LG's OLED division.
Even though the new 4.5 AMOLED plant is able to manufacture OLED-TV panels, it's not perfect for a large scale OLED-TV roll-out. LG is also building an 8 generation OLED plant that should be ready for mass production in 2013. An 8G plant or higher is required for mass production of TV panels." - http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1296654131

NO WAY Samsung gonna just sit and watch at this!

Thats from Feb 2011


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post #38 of 161 Old 01-10-2012, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B View Post

What does rogo know about the plants Panasonic, Samsung and LG have?

If you've read the threads, you can find lots of links showing all 3 of them making major investment in OLED lines of manufacture for TV sized panels.

It's not like Samsung, Sony, LG, and others aren't using OLED in lots of devices already.

PS, this is exactly how LCD TVs came to be. Do you suppose they just suddenly made 90 inch LCD tvs? No, it was 3 inch LCDs then 4 inch then 5 inch then 6 inch then 7 inch etc etc etc.

Samsung already could make a 55inch TV in the current manufacturing line they already have. The question isn't CAN the make it, the question is how fast can they improve and lower manufacturing costs.

Sony sold the PS3 for multiple years at a loss. Most new companies lose money for multiple years before they turn a profit.

There's zero chance OLED isn't coming to a TV near you. TV sales growth is flat. 3D hasn't pushed sales like they wanted. Every manufacturer is looking for something to spure sales. LG and Samsung think OLED can do it.

OLED TVs will be larger and less expensive then the first Plasma TVs. You know plasma TVs? Those TV sets nobody said would make it because they where to expensive?


i didn't say they can't make oled televisions, but that neither lg or sammy have committed the resources to mass produce them. the evidence available is that they have not yet done so, but they may.

we shall see. but neither lg or sammy will be selling hundreds of thousands of 55" oleds in 2012.

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post #39 of 161 Old 01-10-2012, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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You don't know anyone at Samsung or LG, or any of their partners or contractors.

You don't know any upper managment at LG or Samsung.

You don't live next to any Samsung or LG plant.

You don't have a magic crystal ball.

BTW, I love how you can also "read the minds" of LG and Samsung executives who you say think they can sell $8000 TVs when Pioneer couldn't.

Sorry to point out the obvious to you, but LG and Samsung didn't get to be #1 and #2 by being dumb.

I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to look at history and understand CE companies always come out with something better. They always develop something that lowers costs and promises higher quality, and something they can market as "new and improved" or "revolutionary".

Pioneer wanted to be the Apple of TV. Charge more for something that people would see value in. Unfortunatly Pioneer couldn't get enough people to buy the expensive to build TVs they made at an even more expensive consumer price. Samsung and LG aren't into OLED to try and do that.

They have seen that chart that shows TV sales flat for the last 3 years. They KNOW, since they have been selling electronics for many year (in contrast to your years of guessing) that people won't spend money unless A. what they have breaks. B. They are convinced the new thing is better and they need that improvement. Notice the "convinced". People are "convinced" they need the newest iPhone year after year after year. So don't try and say people don't buy upgrades even though the improvement is minor, because they do.

PS, here's 8 "not announced" 55inch OLED displays.

You did not see this, it's not official, it doesn't exist

Samsung OLED at CES

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

No, you can't.

Samsung is trialing 8G and has 5.5G. They haven't yet committed to a full-scale 8G plant. You'll know if they do because (a) they'll actually announce it (b) spec, slacker and others who are interested in this for investment reasons will be all over it.

LG hasn't announced any major investment. We have some combination of the Apple rumor, talk of "converting" an existing line (which makes no sense with OLED isn't LCD, and LG doesn't currently even make IGZO backplanes).

Panasonic is playing with a 6G trial line (if memory serves).

So, yeah, rogo clearly knows nothing.


Well, Samsung is certainly in the Galaxy phone line. Sony? The stillborn PS Vita, the not-really-related head-mounted display, and the tiny production broadcast sets. Anything I missed there? Nothing substantial. Kinda like LG, which is using OLED for nothing substantial at the moment.


Actually, it wasn't. LCDs sprung out of the laptop/desktop monitor market. It is certainly true that incremental size increases were the norm in LCD as motherglass went from 3G to 4G.... all the way 10G. Ironically, this in no way parallels OLED, where the major producers are trying to leapfrog all the way to 8G and to 55" diagonal sets.


This shows how much you don't know. Samsung can, in fact, technically manufacture 55" TVs on the existing 5.5G line. Whether they can make them at any reasonable profit/price/yield, however, is something you have no idea about. It's fairly likely that they'd never, ever be able to improve yields and costs sufficiently on the 5.5G production to make a profit on 55" TVs at any interesting market prices.

The 8G work has a fundamental technical problem involving the production method they've used to date. The masks they use tend to "sag" onto the substrate causing horrible yields as unusable panels come rolling off the line. Now, Samsung is confident that they have solutions to thin, including replacing FMM (fine metal mask) with SMS (small mask scanning). This has never been tested at production volumes. They need to tell the world they are confident this is going to work and allow them to mass produce OLED TVs, but they don't actually know that it will. If they were 100% sure, they wouldn't have made recent comments indicating that approaches like LG's were still under consideration for volume prouction.

You can interpret this however you want, I really don't care, but the fact remains: It is not actually a given that anyone can mass produce 55" OLED TVs at affordable prices. It is likely that all of these production problems will be solved in time, but it's not 100% certain. This isn't mature technology where we can know the problems will be "fixable".

There were times where larger LCD television production was also in this boat. It took innovations in production that were not givens to make such production viable. They did occur and we all have benefited. History's likelihood of repeating itself should not be confused with history's certainty of repeating itself.


Not related at all. Game player makers expect to make money on software. Breaking even on hardware is only the eventual goal. TVs are a one-shot purchase. There are no economics by which you sell those at a loss. Ask Sony, Panasonic, Sharp, Pioneer, LG and others. Hell, ask Samsung -- even their TV business is not really making much profit.


There is a huge chance OLED isn't coming to a TV near you anytime soon. It appears we are going to another year where even if OLED ships -- and that's a big if based on the CES news -- we are looking at something under 0.1% of the market. I suspect TV sales growth will be turning negative soon.

The problem for LG and Samsung is that if they believe that $8000 TVs are going to spur growth, they need to check into the nearest rehab center.


We've discussed this dozens of times. When there was no flat panel TV on the market, you could charge a king's ransom for them. When people were buying their first HDTV's, you could charge a king's ransom for them. Hell, when it was still 2000 and the full effect of the dot-com/telecom bust wasn't yet understood, you could charge a lot more for things too.

The first Pioneer 50" was $25,000. A few years later the best 50" was a Fujitsu that was about $10,000. They went out of business trying to sell those. A few years after that, Pioneer went out of business trying to sell state-of-the-art 50" TVs for just half that. There is no $5000 TV market anymore. It's gone. You know, a really good laptop was over $5000 10 years ago too. If Dell or HP -- or even Apple -- tried to sell anything at that price these days (yes, yes, you can spec one like that.. and 1 in 10,000 of people do), you'd be laughed at.

I'm on record here that by the time you can buy these, the gap between the OLEDs and the best LCDs (or PDPs) is going to be small. Most people will honestly find the picture quality difference subtle. And, apparently, the thinness, bezel-free-ness, etc. will also be subtle.

The chicken-and-egg problem here is the same as it was: You can't sell them cheaply enough up to ramp production. Without ramping production, you can't drive your costs down. Without driving costs down, you can't sell them cheaply enough. And so it goes.

How do you solve this? It's just downright adorable the suggestion that "they go lose money for a few years and make it up later". The only display manufacturer that could actually afford to do that without going bankrupt is Samsung and they'd have to use mobile phone profits -- not display profits -- to subsidize their display business to pull it off. Not going to happen.

Instead, what's much more likely is a slow ramp of OLED production, a slow lowering of prices, a slow ramp, a slow lowering of prices, over and over until pricing eventually gets down near enough to parity that the industry can collectively decide whether to ultimately really make the investments required to replace the half a billion monitors and TVs currently being made annually that use LCDs with a majority of OLEDs. We are quite a ways from that.


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post #40 of 161 Old 01-10-2012, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Uh, no sorry. You're wrong again.

The first LCD displays where used in calculators then alarm clocks, and watches, and lots of non-video devices first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Actually, it wasn't. LCDs sprung out of the laptop/desktop monitor market. It is certainly true that incremental size increases were the norm in LCD as motherglass went from 3G to 4G.... all the way 10G. Ironically, this in no way parallels OLED, where the major producers are trying to leapfrog all the way to 8G and to 55" diagonal sets.


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post #41 of 161 Old 01-10-2012, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B View Post

Uh, no sorry. You're wrong again.

The first LCD displays where used in calculators then alarm clocks, and watches, and lots of non-video devices first.

If you weren't such an ignorant troll, you'd be adorable.

The LCD in your calculator is not an active-matrix TFT LCD. LCD TVs absolutely sprung out of the computer market, which established the demand for TFT active matrix displays and eventually led to the production techniques that made LCD TVs possible. Your calculator, alarm clock and watch barely have "pixels" in any modern sense of the term. You can, in fact, see the outlines of the letter and number forms on those because they are the only portions of the display that are actually LCD at all.

Comparing those to a TFT LCD is a lot like comparing the invention of the first wheel to a modern Porsche.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #42 of 161 Old 01-10-2012, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B View Post

You don't know anyone at Samsung or LG, or any of their partners or contractors.

You don't know any upper managment at LG or Samsung.

You don't live next to any Samsung or LG plant.

You don't have a magic crystal ball.

The first line is false. The second and third lines are true and entirely irrelevant. The fourth line is technically true, but my non-magic one has seen the future with about 10,000x the accuracy yours ever will.
Quote:


BTW, I love how you can also "read the minds" of LG and Samsung executives who you say think they can sell $8000 TVs when Pioneer couldn't.

Hope springs eternal. LG is committing to an opening price of <$15,000. That's as far as they're going. Everyone agrees the ultimate price needs to be a slight premium to LCD -- at most.
Quote:


Sorry to point out the obvious to you, but LG and Samsung didn't get to be #1 and #2 by being dumb.

Not sure what you think they are #1 and #2 in, but over the past decade, they have made pretty much no profit selling LCD panels and not much selling televisions. Samsung is very financially successful these days -- thanks to their phone division. LG, for the first 9 months of 2011, has managed to lose 300 billion won. Clearly, they are the Einsteins of money making!

(Aside, Samsung's panel business is so "great", this is how Reuters reported about it on their recent financial results: "Samsung only entered the smartphone market in earnest in 2010, but its handset division is now its biggest earnings generator...Sales have skyrocketed thanks to a slick production system that rapidly brings new products to market and has mitigated weakness in its component business of mainly memory chips and flat screens.")

Quote:


I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to look at history and understand CE companies always come out with something better. They always develop something that lowers costs and promises higher quality, and something they can market as "new and improved" or "revolutionary".

At no point have I failed to demonstrate an understanding of this.
Quote:


Pioneer wanted to be the Apple of TV. Charge more for something that people would see value in. Unfortunatly Pioneer couldn't get enough people to buy the expensive to build TVs they made at an even more expensive consumer price. Samsung and LG aren't into OLED to try and do that.

I fully understand why Samsung and LG are attempting to build the OLED market. I very much doubt you do.
Quote:


They have seen that chart that shows TV sales flat for the last 3 years. They KNOW, since they have been selling electronics for many year (in contrast to your years of guessing) that people won't spend money unless A. what they have breaks. B. They are convinced the new thing is better and they need that improvement. Notice the "convinced". People are "convinced" they need the newest iPhone year after year after year. So don't try and say people don't buy upgrades even though the improvement is minor, because they do.

I don't you think you understand what I do. I don't "guess" at what has happened. That's all available information. I analyze it; I synthesize it; I try to understand what will happen next. I forecast the prices of TVs years before they reached it. I forecast the LCD glut before it existed. I forecast that plasma wouldn't disappear by 2010. I forecast that OLED wouldn't be out by 2010.

My "magic crystal ball" is not so bad given its lack of actual magic.

Also, the vast, vast majority of people don't buy a new iPhone every year. A small minority does that. A decent plurality buys one every couple of years. If you think the iPhone 4S is a minor upgrade over an iPhone 3GS, you're entitled to that opinion. Tens of millions of people can actually tell you what they paid for that justified their upgrades.

You think very very little of people, that they are stupid and will be duped into buying a new $8000 TV because Samsung convinces them to do this. Apple certainly employs no such techniques and I doubt Samsung will. And I find the notion that OLED quality is so great it will be self evident that everyone needs to throw out their perfectly good HDTVs to buy one to be patently absurd. When you've seen these prototypes, your opinion will be ever so slightly more interesting.

If LG goes to market with what they are showing at CES right now, it won't be blowing away too many people. Is it likely that the Samsung and LG OLEDs will be the "best TVs money can buy?" Perhaps they will be. The size of that margin is smaller than you think.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #43 of 161 Old 01-11-2012, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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LOL, talking to someone at the LG booth doesn't mean you "know someone" there.

Funny.

And PSST, LCD is LCD is LCD. Without watches and calulators nobody would have thought to make a TV out of Liquid Crystal Display.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

The first line is false. The second and third lines are true and entirely irrelevant. The fourth line is technically true, but my non-magic one has seen the future with about 10,000x the accuracy yours ever will.


Hope springs eternal. LG is committing to an opening price of <$15,000. That's as far as they're going. Everyone agrees the ultimate price needs to be a slight premium to LCD -- at most.


Not sure what you think they are #1 and #2 in, but over the past decade, they have made pretty much no profit selling LCD panels and not much selling televisions. Samsung is very financially successful these days -- thanks to their phone division. LG, for the first 9 months of 2011, has managed to lose 300 billion won. Clearly, they are the Einsteins of money making!

(Aside, Samsung's panel business is so "great", this is how Reuters reported about it on their recent financial results: "Samsung only entered the smartphone market in earnest in 2010, but its handset division is now its biggest earnings generator...Sales have skyrocketed thanks to a slick production system that rapidly brings new products to market and has mitigated weakness in its component business of mainly memory chips and flat screens.")



At no point have I failed to demonstrate an understanding of this.


I fully understand why Samsung and LG are attempting to build the OLED market. I very much doubt you do.


I don't you think you understand what I do. I don't "guess" at what has happened. That's all available information. I analyze it; I synthesize it; I try to understand what will happen next. I forecast the prices of TVs years before they reached it. I forecast the LCD glut before it existed. I forecast that plasma wouldn't disappear by 2010. I forecast that OLED wouldn't be out by 2010.

My "magic crystal ball" is not so bad given its lack of actual magic.

Also, the vast, vast majority of people don't buy a new iPhone every year. A small minority does that. A decent plurality buys one every couple of years. If you think the iPhone 4S is a minor upgrade over an iPhone 3GS, you're entitled to that opinion. Tens of millions of people can actually tell you what they paid for that justified their upgrades.

You think very very little of people, that they are stupid and will be duped into buying a new $8000 TV because Samsung convinces them to do this. Apple certainly employs no such techniques and I doubt Samsung will. And I find the notion that OLED quality is so great it will be self evident that everyone needs to throw out their perfectly good HDTVs to buy one to be patently absurd. When you've seen these prototypes, your opinion will be ever so slightly more interesting.

If LG goes to market with what they are showing at CES right now, it won't be blowing away too many people. Is it likely that the Samsung and LG OLEDs will be the "best TVs money can buy?" Perhaps they will be. The size of that margin is smaller than you think.


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post #44 of 161 Old 01-12-2012, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
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"The Samsung 55in OLED TV is scheduled to launch in the last quarter of 2012 for an as yet undisclosed price (though we received a hint that it would be in the same ball park as Samsung’s C9000 series, the 55in version of which cost between £7000 and £8000 when it first came out)."

Cool.

Samsung Info

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post #45 of 161 Old 01-12-2012, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by David_B View Post

LOL, talking to someone at the LG booth doesn't mean you "know someone" there.

Funny.

And PSST, LCD is LCD is LCD. Without watches and calulators nobody would have thought to make a TV out of Liquid Crystal Display.

As I told you above, your assertion about who I know is incorrect.

As for your comparisons to calculators, again the LCD in them vs. an LCD TV is akin to wheelbarrow vs. Formula 1 race car. Both use wheels. The comparisons end there.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #46 of 161 Old 01-13-2012, 05:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I can say I know the head of enginering at LG, doesn't prove a thing.

I don't believe you know anyone at any manufacurer that has anything whatsoever to do with oled decissions or enginering.

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Originally Posted by rogo View Post


As I told you above, your assertion about who I know is incorrect.

As for your comparisons to calculators, again the LCD in them vs. an LCD TV is akin to wheelbarrow vs. Formula 1 race car. Both use wheels. The comparisons end there.


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post #47 of 161 Old 01-13-2012, 05:03 PM
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I can say I know the head of enginering at LG, doesn't prove a thing.

I don't believe you know anyone at any manufacurer that has anything whatsoever to do with oled decissions or enginering.

The universe where I -- or really most anyone -- cares what you believe is... not this one.

Again, moving on.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #48 of 161 Old 01-14-2012, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Glad to know you speak for humankind rogo.

LOL

It was very clear it was my personal opinion, I wasn't talking for anyone else (as opposed to what you just did).

Please please PLEASE feel free to "move along" from this thread.

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The universe where I -- or really most anyone -- cares what you believe is... not this one.

Again, moving on.


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post #49 of 161 Old 01-14-2012, 12:32 PM
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Sorry to jump in to the middle of a huge argument about random bs...

but I had a chance to see the sets at CES and the Samsung OLED sets looked frigging GREAT. Like THAT matters

resume argument.
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rogo rules!
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Went to COSTCO today, they were sellling the new LG 55 OLED set

This ain't no party, this ain't no disco
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^Wut? lol
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post #53 of 161 Old 01-14-2012, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by tjk3030 View Post

Went to COSTCO today, they were sellling the new LG 55 OLED set

You might want to look for a rehab program in your area.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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Went to COSTCO today, they were sellling the new LG 55 OLED set

Get your eyes checked. You sadly mistaken.
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post #55 of 161 Old 01-15-2012, 10:56 AM
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-Or is he? Getting closer and closer to it!
"Best of CES Innovations 2012" in the Video Displays category —International CES. "Samsung's KN55ES9000 is a beautiful masterpiece of accurate color reproduction and maximized performance. It provides a suite of advanced Smart TV features with a high performance dual core chipset.". - http://www.oled-info.com/kn55es9000-...-super-oled-tv
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post #56 of 161 Old 04-19-2012, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english...120417/213150/


Still on track for 2012 release!

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post #57 of 161 Old 04-19-2012, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_B View Post

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english...120417/213150/


Still on track for 2012 release!

Quote

"We will launch a large-size OLED TV in the second quarter of 2012 at the earliest," said Michael Zoelle, European Marketing Director TV/AV, Samsung Electronics Europe, who took the podium at the press conference and granted an interview to Nikkei Electronics.

HDPLEX
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Originally Posted by lymzy View Post


Quote

"We will launch a large-size OLED TV in the second quarter of 2012 at the earliest," said Michael Zoelle, European Marketing Director TV/AV, Samsung Electronics Europe, who took the podium at the press conference and granted an interview to Nikkei Electronics.

I love the "at the earliest" part. Haha.
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According to the article, they will be "disclosing features, specs, and prices" at the IFA show in August/September, which is exactly what was said a week or so ago. Given that product pretty much never actually ships coincident with "disclosure of features, specs and prices" at trade shows, there still seems to be no possible way anything is available ahead of Q4 and a reasonable possibility nothing is available at all from them in 2012. Or at least not many units.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #60 of 161 Old 04-19-2012, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I predict you will be wrong again, as usual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

According to the article, they will be "disclosing features, specs, and prices" at the IFA show in August/September, which is exactly what was said a week or so ago. Given that product pretty much never actually ships coincident with "disclosure of features, specs and prices" at trade shows, there still seems to be no possible way anything is available ahead of Q4 and a reasonable possibility nothing is available at all from them in 2012. Or at least not many units.


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