Sony Crystal LED Display - new display tech - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 405 Old 01-08-2013, 08:01 PM
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"We are internally still investigating the opportunity of how to make it. But Crystal LED looks only to be viable in huge screen sizes," Kentaro Matsumoto, product manager at Sony. "It's not easy to manufacture at a consumer price still because we are using one dot for three LEDs so it's expensive technology-wise. So we are still trying to work out what we can use it for, so we're talking medical uses, professional references devices possibly."
Damn. Rogo read them like a book!
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The smart money is on Crystal LED never making it into consumer products then, which is disappointing. And indeed, a cursory glance at Sony UK's website reveals the CLED page has been removed. Sad face.
R.I.P. CLED. You may lie alongside SED and FED.
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post #362 of 405 Old 01-08-2013, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Damn. Rogo read them like a book!
R.I.P. CLED. You may lie alongside SED and FED.


Keep the faith alive brotha! wink.gif

Me? I shall hold out hope that we will one day see CLED walls in movie theatres showing 64k movies to the masses biggrin.gif
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post #363 of 405 Old 01-08-2013, 09:06 PM
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Another snuffed out pipe dream on the road to world wide LCD that SUX!
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post #364 of 405 Old 01-08-2013, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Damn. Rogo read them like a book!
R.I.P. CLED. You may lie alongside SED and FED.

I like to be wrong on these things. I hate being right.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #365 of 405 Old 01-09-2013, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Another snuffed out pipe dream on the road to world wide LCD that SUX!
I think you are my new least favourite poster. Congratulations irkuck!

Do you just spend all day looking for topics you haven’t yet posted in, simply to contribute an “LCD SUX!” comment?
First of all, “SUX” is not even a word, nor an acronym as far as I am aware.
Secondly, LCD is a lot better than you give it credit for. The better sets might not be to your taste, but they certainly don’t “suck”.
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post #366 of 405 Old 01-09-2013, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I like to be wrong on these things. I hate being right.

I like you being wrong on these things. I hate you being right. LOL

Grow milkweed. The Monarch Butterfly requires it, and its numbers are dwindling fast.
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post #367 of 405 Old 01-09-2013, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

I think you are my new least favourite poster. Congratulations irkuck!
Do you just spend all day looking for topics you haven’t yet posted in, simply to contribute an “LCD SUX!” comment?
First of all, “SUX” is not even a word, nor an acronym as far as I am aware.
Secondly, LCD is a lot better than you give it credit for. The better sets might not be to your taste, but they certainly don’t “suck”.

That was my initial reaction too, but I look at it in a kind of humorous way now that I didn't use to. Imagine the humor of the crazy uncle at dinner, ranting on about a particular topic, and only that one topic. Everytime I read one of Artwood's foaming at the mouth posts, undoubtedly aided with cut&paste from a nearby screen always handy, I hear the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen screaming "Where's My Doctor???" in the first Dune movie.

Grow milkweed. The Monarch Butterfly requires it, and its numbers are dwindling fast.
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post #368 of 405 Old 01-09-2013, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Damn. Rogo read them like a book!
R.I.P. CLED.

Well, two pie in the sky hopes for we, the dazed and confused. First, it still is a an unknown as to whether or not the OLED crowd can keep the wearing out of the subs-elements down on screens this size. For all we know, it might be a peachy screen that after 5 years suddenly has a CNN logo dropped out to black on every channel. Second, and this is definitely for the heavy hitters here, isn't there a potential problem with the longevity of the substrates the OLED's are printed on when they're this big? Doesn't uniformity suddenly deteriorate? I would have sworn that was still a concern.

Grow milkweed. The Monarch Butterfly requires it, and its numbers are dwindling fast.
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post #369 of 405 Old 01-09-2013, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

I think you are my new least favourite poster. Congratulations irkuck!
Do you just spend all day looking for topics you haven’t yet posted in, simply to contribute an “LCD SUX!” comment?
First of all, “SUX” is not even a word, nor an acronym as far as I am aware.
Secondly, LCD is a lot better than you give it credit for. The better sets might not be to your taste, but they certainly don’t “suck”.

Why don't you just use the 'block" option, since he bothers you so much?

I just view his stuff as a form of Performance Art-wood, and shrug it off.
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post #370 of 405 Old 01-09-2013, 06:46 AM
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I don't know what the Hell happened. No red X and it showed me that it posted 4 times. I only hit submit once. Not only that, it also showed up in the wrong thread.

Red x is there now. posts are gone.
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post #371 of 405 Old 01-09-2013, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Why don't you just use the 'block" option, since he bothers you so much?
I just view his stuff as a form of Performance Art-wood, and shrug it off.
Most of the time browsing the forum, I am not logged in. It's just getting to me that it turns up everywhere now, whether there's any relevance to the topic or not.
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I don't know what the Hell happened. No red X and it showed me that it posted 4 times. I only hit submit once. Not only that, it also showed up in the wrong thread.
Red x is there now. posts are gone.
I've found that on a number of forums recently, hitting Ctrl + Enter will submit your post, and they do not seem to perform any flood control checks on that.
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post #372 of 405 Old 01-09-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Second, and this is definitely for the heavy hitters here, isn't there a potential problem with the longevity of the substrates the OLED's are printed on when they're this big? Doesn't uniformity suddenly deteriorate? I would have sworn that was still a concern.
For you it is a concern, for salesmen - it's a party time! The need to change a TV every two or three years makes for an outstanding market product! And their excuse would be - you have to pay for the Quality! I think this is one of the main reasons they went with OLED and not any other display technology - the need to constantly change TVs. With LCDs they only succeeded to influence enthusiasts/videophiles to switch TVs ofthen. With OLEDs this will be a necessity for normal folk.
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post #373 of 405 Old 01-09-2013, 12:06 PM
 
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The cynicism is at a fever pitch in here.
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post #374 of 405 Old 01-09-2013, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Well, two pie in the sky hopes for we, the dazed and confused. First, it still is a an unknown as to whether or not the OLED crowd can keep the wearing out of the subs-elements down on screens this size. For all we know, it might be a peachy screen that after 5 years suddenly has a CNN logo dropped out to black on every channel. Second, and this is definitely for the heavy hitters here, isn't there a potential problem with the longevity of the substrates the OLED's are printed on when they're this big? Doesn't uniformity suddenly deteriorate? I would have sworn that was still a concern.

LG's method doesn't make me worry much about uniformity. The "all white" design uses a long-life blue so we shouldn't see color shift. Overall, pixel uniformity is at risk in OLED because the material won't last forever, but that's been a concern with plasma too and it's largely unfounded.

The RGB OLEDs of Samsung (and hypothetically Panasonic and Sony) could suffer from "blue loss", but again, we might be talking 7-10 year minimums before that happens. And it's possible before you see these on the market, even that concern might be gone.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #375 of 405 Old 01-10-2013, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Why don't you just use the 'block" option, since he bothers you so much?

I just view his stuff as a form of Performance Art-wood, and shrug it off.

yeah i find his posts amusing and can tolerate them to the extent that there is a kernel of truth to it.

neflixis our nemesis
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post #376 of 405 Old 01-11-2013, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

That was my initial reaction too, but I look at it in a kind of humorous way now that I didn't use to. Imagine the humor of the crazy uncle at dinner, ranting on about a particular topic, and only that one topic. Everytime I read one of Artwood's foaming at the mouth posts, undoubtedly aided with cut&paste from a nearby screen always handy, I hear the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen screaming "Where's My Doctor???" in the first Dune movie.

I reluctantly agree. The amount of energy, endurance and sheer hate this human possesses for lcd televisions is unrivaled.

Every place needs a loon...and a laugh, I say.

This camp has more than a few.

I realize I just handed this guy a fresh box of grenades, but, oh well, it's Friday.

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post #377 of 405 Old 01-11-2013, 09:38 AM
 
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^Go on, insult some more loons (the "more than a few" remark opened a door you can't so easily close). wink.gif

Artwood is overly dramatic, even hyperbolic, but correct.
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post #378 of 405 Old 01-11-2013, 11:03 AM
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^Go on, insult some more loons (the "more than a few" remark opened a door you can't so easily close). wink.gif

Artwood is overly dramatic, even hyperbolic, but correct.

lmao. Ask me how concerned I am about "closing the door". Thanks for making my...excuse me, our point.

beautiful.

James

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Careful with the condescension. You might develop a neck cramp. wink.gif The only point that was demonstrated was the one in your mind.

I regret ever bumping this thread now (it was on the second page until after CES). That's what I get for not letting sleeping dogs lie.
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post #380 of 405 Old 01-11-2013, 12:02 PM
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Careful with the condescension. You might develop a neck cramp. wink.gif The only point that was demonstrated was the one in your mind.

I regret ever bumping this thread now (it was on the second page until after CES). That's what I get for not letting sleeping dogs lie.

Go ahead and show 5 people the last 20 posts- unprompted- and see if they believe it's all in my mind.

Trust me, you're not the only one who regrets your return.

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What does my return even mean? I've been posting at the forum on-and-off since I registered. Your insults are weak. MOSTLY, in the last 20 posts, people were debating the viability of this technology ever coming to the light of day in a display (though perhaps half of them were sidetracked by Artwood who were apparently insulted when he lambasted their precious).
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post #382 of 405 Old 01-12-2013, 09:07 PM
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Looks like the need to push 4K televisions sets has killed CLED.
Think about it from a marketing perspective - you have Crystal LED which is as good or better than OLED in picture quality, but how can they even sell when cheaper 2014 flat panels are 4K resolution? CLED would never get off the ground sales wise.

As mentioned by others, SED, FED, Kuro and now CLED now gone - we who hope for premium image quality keep getting burned again and again by the rapid changes in this industry.
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post #383 of 405 Old 01-12-2013, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

Looks like the need to push 4K televisions sets has killed CLED.
Think about it from a marketing perspective - you have Crystal LED which is as good or better than OLED in picture quality, but how can they even sell when cheaper 2014 flat panels are 4K resolution? CLED would never get off the ground sales wise.

As mentioned by others, SED, FED, Kuro and now CLED now gone - we who hope for premium image quality keep getting burned again and again by the rapid changes in this industry.
OLED is superior display tech superseding everything that has gone mainstream prior. I said before that its Back to the Future Part II (future tech).
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post #384 of 405 Old 01-13-2013, 07:46 AM
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OLED is superior display tech superseding everything that has gone mainstream prior. I said before that its Back to the Future Part II (future tech).

How is OLED superior to Crystal LED aside from thickness? If anything, Crystal LED currently stands a hypothetical chance for less wear issues that was the OLED issue historically. Also, it may be an apples and oranges comparison, but *currently* there are reports from multiple sources of increasing burn-in issues with existing small OLED displays.

https://www.google.com/search?q=oled+burn+in

Grow milkweed. The Monarch Butterfly requires it, and its numbers are dwindling fast.
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post #385 of 405 Old 01-13-2013, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Agisthos View Post

Looks like the need to push 4K televisions sets has killed CLED.
Think about it from a marketing perspective - you have Crystal LED which is as good or better than OLED in picture quality, but how can they even sell when cheaper 2014 flat panels are 4K resolution? CLED would never get off the ground sales wise.

As mentioned by others, SED, FED, Kuro and now CLED now gone - we who hope for premium image quality keep getting burned again and again by the rapid changes in this industry.

Look, people can concoct whatever rationalization they want but CLED never existed. It was a demo. Sony never said, "we want to build this". They have decided they lack the ability to manufacture it at any reasonable price in any reasonable size.

This has nothing to do with 4K. You want to believer otherwise, fine.

What you might want to ask yourself based on this theory is how they are going to sell any 2K OLED TVs when 4K is here and not on OLED (and won't be till 2015, in all likelihood).
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

How is OLED superior to Crystal LED aside from thickness? If anything, Crystal LED currently stands a hypothetical chance for less wear issues that was the OLED issue historically. Also, it may be an apples and oranges comparison, but *currently* there are reports from multiple sources of increasing burn-in issues with existing small OLED displays.

https://www.google.com/search?q=oled+burn+in

Crystal LED had horrible scan-line effects on the prototype. I know people loved it and, look, it had some nice attributes. But it looked poor to me when moving objects entered the screen from the edge and I'm quite sure had other issues.

OLED has very good motion handling already and can match any tech we have on simultaneous contrast as well as largely irrelevant sequential contrast.

I'm curious about burn-in potential because nothing is being said about life, which I find odd. But that said, LG's method is likely to result in a display that's going to be hard to burn in, except with extreme abuse. The Samsung design may be more prone, but there is serious doubt as to whether it will ever scale anyway.

I'm less clear whether the Sony/Panasonic designs use different OLED materials (different manufacturing techniques, sure, but different OLED materials is less clear) which might keep them more resilient than Samsung. We'll see.
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #386 of 405 Old 01-13-2013, 11:55 PM
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I'm curious about burn-in potential because nothing is being said about life, which I find odd. But that said, LG's method is likely to result in a display that's going to be hard to burn in, except with extreme abuse. The Samsung design may be more prone, but there is serious doubt as to whether it will ever scale anyway.

Actually, this is directly from the LG website regarding their OLED set:


Does OLED experience "burn-in" when an image is left on the screen too long?

OLED is susceptible to burn-in. If a static image remains on the screen repeatedly or often or for a long uninterrupted stretch of time, you run the risk of degrading the phosphors from overuse in certain portions of the screen. This will leave an after-image or "ghost" on the screen. This burn-in is permanent and cannot be fixed. You can however minimize the chance of burn-in by avoiding those TV broadcasts and videogames with constant logos or text displayed. Also, if you tend to pause Blu-rays when watching, see if your player offers a screensaver mode.



Source: http://www.lg.com/us/oled/whats-oledtv.jsp

Can you imagine getting permanent burn-in on a $12K TV!? eek.gif
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post #387 of 405 Old 01-14-2013, 12:03 AM
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Ok so who's taking bets? Which will we see hit the market first? CLED sets or Quantum Dot sets? biggrin.gif

Well, at least quantum dots are actually finding their way into TVs for SOMETHING. I wonder how far along the progress is on making them into actual displays. As far as CLED goes, a Sony employee did hint that it might be more suitable for larger displays or professional reference displays. That might give us a hint on the future of CLED.

So lesse here... we have the various LCD variants, we have plasma, OLED, CLED, QDOT... what other futuristic display technologies are out there that we should be keeping an eye on?
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post #388 of 405 Old 01-14-2013, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

Actually, this is directly from the LG website regarding their OLED set:


Does OLED experience "burn-in" when an image is left on the screen too long?

OLED is susceptible to burn-in. If a static image remains on the screen repeatedly or often or for a long uninterrupted stretch of time, you run the risk of degrading the phosphors from overuse in certain portions of the screen. This will leave an after-image or "ghost" on the screen. This burn-in is permanent and cannot be fixed. You can however minimize the chance of burn-in by avoiding those TV broadcasts and videogames with constant logos or text displayed. Also, if you tend to pause Blu-rays when watching, see if your player offers a screensaver mode.



Source: http://www.lg.com/us/oled/whats-oledtv.jsp

Can you imagine getting permanent burn-in on a $12K TV!? eek.gif

None of those disclaimers address OLED lifetime, which is what I referenced in my comment. "I'm curious about burn-in potential because nothing is being said about life,"
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Ok so who's taking bets? Which will we see hit the market first? CLED sets or Quantum Dot sets? biggrin.gif

Well, at least quantum dots are actually finding their way into TVs for SOMETHING. I wonder how far along the progress is on making them into actual displays. As far as CLED goes, a Sony employee did hint that it might be more suitable for larger displays or professional reference displays. That might give us a hint on the future of CLED.

So lesse here... we have the various LCD variants, we have plasma, OLED, CLED, QDOT... what other futuristic display technologies are out there that we should be keeping an eye on?

The idea that quantum dots are "finding their way into TVs" because of their use in a film and that this portends some greater use could be extended to "LEDs have found their way into TVs for year, so crystal LED is a logical extension". Neither is happening.

We will not see CLED TVs nor QDOT TVs nor any other TVs. If OLED indeed displaces LCDs by the end of the decade, we will be lucky...

These are multi-billion-dollar investments, not something that just happens. If you haven't already seen years of prototypes, you will not be seeing a TV. There is nothing coming.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #389 of 405 Old 01-14-2013, 12:37 AM
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... CLED in 2014! I'm calling it now. Why? Meh, why not, lol tongue.gif


So I guess this is the last we'll be discussing this subject until at least IFA or the next CES unless someone at Sony happens to let something else slip.
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post #390 of 405 Old 01-14-2013, 02:40 AM
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Look, people can concoct whatever rationalization they want but CLED never existed. It was a demo. Sony never said, "we want to build this". They have decided they lack the ability to manufacture it at any reasonable price in any reasonable size.

This has nothing to do with 4K. You want to believer otherwise, fine.

The fact that CLED was just a prototype and a 'potential' future display technology has no bearing on this conversation at all. To bring up this obvious fact - as some sort of proof we are 'wrong' is just ridiculous arguementation.

4K is a massive factor in why Sony would never seriously consider CLED. Now that the 3D fad is over, manufacturers need a new marketing angle like 4K to bring something new to consumers. At least with OLED the manufacturing technology can be ramped up to 4K. But with CLED using 3 leds per pixel is hard enough at 1080p and impossible at 4k. During 2010-2011 when Sony were prototyping CLED the rush towards 4K was not obvious but it is now, hence CLED is a non-starter. It no doubt was a long shot anyway.

How 4K is effecting future product releases is obvious if you view it from not just a technological viewpoint - but via sales/marketing trends.
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