LG OLED vs Samsung Super OLED - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 179 Old 01-10-2012, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I've read some raves about both the LG OLED and the Samsung Super OLED at CES 2012. Has anyone here seen them both? Please report! Thanks.
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post #2 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

I've read some raves about both the LG OLED and the Samsung Super OLED at CES 2012. Has anyone here seen them both? Please report! Thanks.

Here is one report
http://www.trustedreviews.com/samsun...d-tv_TV_review
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post #3 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 07:27 AM
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It's funny how LG justifies using the white pixel. they might as well say our panel isn't as advanced as the Samsung but we are trying.


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post #4 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 07:44 AM
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Welcome back Nielo Where have youi been?

Actually it's looking more like Samsung saying our panel is more advanced but we can't mass produce it.
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post #5 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielo TM View Post

It's funny how LG justifies using the white pixel. they might as well say our panel isn't as advanced as the Samsung but we are trying.

Has Samsung solved the uneven aging between the RGB pixels, and if so, how have they done it? If they have not,then LG may be the more advanced panel after all.
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post #6 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 08:34 AM
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RGBW concept isn't new and it prime purpose is to cut power consumption.


PenTile (RGBW) top, RGB bottom

http://www.talkandroid.com/wp-conten...een.jpg?3995d3


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post #7 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Has Samsung solved the uneven aging between the RGB pixels, and if so, how have they done it? If they have not,then LG may be the more advanced panel after all.

Not sure yet. But they are using RGB strip, which means they must have solved/adressed the power and aging issues.


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post #8 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielo TM View Post

It's funny how LG justifies using the white pixel. they might as well say our panel isn't as advanced as the Samsung but we are trying.

Explaining the white subpixel is a bit difficult from a PR standpoint. It's not smart to say "the white subpixel partly compensates the efficiency loss caused by the RGB color filters that are needed when using White OLED".

On the other hand, White OLED might just give them a tremendous advantage at this point compared to competitors that use "Pure RGB OLED". It will be interesting to see how this translates to pricing and availability later this year.

It would surprise me if one can see a significant image quality difference between the two.
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post #9 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 08:48 AM
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I'm not sure if LG uses all white OLED. IT will be interesting to find out. But it does in a way explain the presence of the while OLED to help aid efficiency.


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post #10 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielo TM View Post

I'm not sure if LG uses all white OLED. IT will be interesting to find out. But it does in a way explain the presence of the while OLED to help aid efficiency.

This is from the LG press release on December 26, 2011:

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Originally Posted by LG press release View Post

Additionally, LG Display uses White OLED (WOLED). WOLED vertically accumulates red, green, and blue diodes. With white color light emitting from the diode, it displays screen information through color layers below the TFT base panel, which leads to a lower error rate, higher productivity, and a clearer Ultra Definition screen via the benefits of small pixels.

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post #11 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 09:10 AM
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Yap that explains the extra white pixel. They are using it to counteract the extra power consumption. IT also means that Samsung's OLED by default is more advanced.


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post #12 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 09:25 AM
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It is more advanced and it is the cleanest/purest design, but will we perceive an image quality difference? Will one design have a better lifetime or color stability than the other?
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post #13 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferro View Post

It is more advanced and it is the cleanest/purest design, but will we perceive an image quality difference? Will one design have a better lifetime or color stability than the other?

Too soon to tell anything about that yet. Much depends on how much it costs to manufacture each of the different panels, and which approach generates the greater yield of panels without defects. If LG is able to manufacture panels for a significantly lower cost that Samsung, and most people are not able to see much difference in the quality of the images, then LG would have the marketing edge.

I doubt if many people are going to pay much attention to the small difference that there might be in power consumption, if they can purchase one unit for a significantly lower price than the other.
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post #14 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferro View Post

This is from the LG press release on December 26, 2011:

I think that possibly there are multiple advantages to the stacked design. By the way there was an earlier exploration of the stacked design using LEDs (SLED), where the design goal was greater accuracy in color mixing, decreased color shift off axis, and greater light efficiency (less light loss due to all LEDS...or OLEDs in the case of LG...being converged, rather than placed side-by-side). Also the stacked design yields smaller pixels.

I seem to recall reading that the design allows better compensation for uneven aging of the OLEDs.

Anyway, here's some light reading with your coffee or tea:

http://personal.cityu.edu.hk/~kwansh...aper/2PSSC.pdf
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post #15 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 09:56 AM
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LG is only using white subpixels, 8 million of them to be precise.

They are not, in fact, trying. Their manufacturing method will be an order of magnitude less complex than Samsung's; their power consumption wil be slightly higher. I doubt that most people will perceive much of a picture quality difference. There are reasons, in fact, why LG's picture make actually prove superior. At this current stage, however -- keeping in mind these prototypes have little in common with the final products -- I'd say the Samsung is a tad better. In the real world, that's just not going to matter. Especially not if LG's price is $2000 lower than Samsung next year.

Neither method has any advantages or disadvantages vis a vis blue lifetimes. Both displays use blue OLED material. If it ages faster, the color temperature will change dramatically over time. That said, I don't believe this is coming to market in a design that is going to cause problems in the first 20,000 hours -- which is roughly 8 years of "high normal" use.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #16 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 09:58 AM
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U guys should check out the OLED thread which we had been discussing for past 6 months or so

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielo TM View Post

Not sure yet. But they are using RGB strip, which means they must have solved/adressed the power and aging issues.

Aging in 5 days? Crystal TV on display also does not mean heat issue with LED resolved.

Neither does VT rising black shows in 5 days

I think LG is giving Sammy a run for their $
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post #17 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Too soon to tell anything about that yet. Much depends on how much it costs to manufacture each of the different panels, and which approach generates the greater yield of panels without defects. If LG is able to manufacture panels for a significantly lower cost that Samsung, and most people are not able to see much difference in the quality of the images, then LG would have the marketing edge.

I doubt if many people are going to pay much attention to the small difference that there might be in power consumption, if they can purchase one unit for a significantly lower price than the other.

true! I would take RGBW OLED over the current LCD/PDP. So in the beginning it wouldn't matter too much as to who is better. But as time goes on, we will begin to demand better panels.



But adding white pixels softens the image (providing it's spaces flat and not stacked). So it does impact the image quality. Since it will be used in TV, I'm not sure if people will detect it.


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post #18 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

U guys should check out the OLED thread which we had been discussing for past 6 months or so



Aging in 5 days? Crystal TV on display also does not mean heat issue with LED resolved.

Neither does VT rising black shows in 5 days

I think LG is giving Sammy a run for their $


Sony used White OLED with RGB color filter and look how that turned out after few months

TBH, I don't see LG as a leader. They've never been. Even their LCDs are designed and engineered by Hitachi.


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post #19 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

I think that possibly there are multiple advantages to the stacked design. By the way there was an earlier exploration of the stacked design using LEDs (SLED), where the design goal was greater accuracy in color mixing, decreased color shift off axis, and greater light efficiency (less light loss due to all LEDS...or OLEDs in the case of LG...being converged, rather than placed side-by-side). Also the stacked design yields smaller pixels.

I seem to recall reading that the design allows better compensation for uneven aging of the OLEDs.

Anyway, here's some light reading with your coffee or tea:

http://personal.cityu.edu.hk/~kwansh...aper/2PSSC.pdf

Stacked OLED is the ultimate goal since it yields greater gamut and accuracy. It also creates more natural image due to negligible gaps between pixels and the fact that pixels can produce any color without the RGB being visible up close.

But as far as im aware, you'll need actual RGB OLED to stack. If LG managed to achieve this using white with RGB color filter, then yes that is impressive (but I doubt it tbh)


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post #20 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielo TM View Post

Stacked OLED is the ultimate goal since it yields greater gamut and accuracy. It also creates more natural image due to negligible gaps between pixels and the fact that pixels can produce any color without the RGB being visible up close.

But as far as im aware, you'll need actual RGB OLED to stack. If LG managed to achieve this using white with RGB color filter, then yes that is impressive (but I doubt it tbh)

According to LG's own material (where the hell did I put it on my computer) they are vertically stacking OLEDs. It's not just a single white OLED that is being filtered to produce color. LG's design parallels that in the linked white paper.
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post #21 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielo TM View Post


Sony used White OLED with RGB color filter and look how that turned out after few months

TBH, I don't see LG as a leader. They've never been. Even their LCDs are designed and engineered by Hitachi.

If you checked the OLED thread, I have said the same thing about LG.

LG is using Kodak WOLED patents

They had been right on passive 3D. They might just be right on OLED.

Sammy is cash rich while LG is cash tight. Reminds me of the story of NASA trying to develop expensive and elaborate antigravity pens to use in space (not sure if true but that's besides the point) Turn out that the Soviets were just using pencils.
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post #22 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 10:31 AM
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I'll have a read thorugh. I've haven't read up on the OLED thread yet


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post #23 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

According to LG's own material (where the hell did I put it on my computer) they are vertically stacking OLEDs. It's not just a single white OLED that is being filtered to produce color. LG's design parallels that in the linked white paper.

This says it all IMO:

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Originally Posted by LG press release View Post

With white color light emitting from the diode, it displays screen information through color layers below the TFT base panel

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post #24 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post


Sammy is cash rich while LG is cash tight. Reminds me of the story of NASA trying to develop expensive and elaborate antigravity pens to use in space (not sure if true but that's besides the point) Turn out that the Soviets were just using pencils.

Rent the Indian comedy Three Idiots about students at an Indian Engineering college, and that point about the pen and the pencil is highlighted.

Plus, it's a great movie (the most successful Bollywood film ever made, including internationally), and you can laugh and take a break from the Display Wars.
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post #25 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferro View Post

This says it all IMO:

I don't believe that says it all. Until I find the LG article with a diagram showing the stacked arrangement, this should suffice:

..."LG has also opted for the use of White OLEDs (WOLED), which produce a white-light from red, green and blue diodes vertically, meaning that they are stacked and so only the end white-light product is visible."...

http://hexus.net/ce/news/audio-visua...hdtv-ces-2012/
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post #26 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post


Rent the Indian comedy Three Idiots about students at an Indian Engineering college, and that point about the pen and the pencil is highlighted.

Plus, it's a great movie (the most successful Bollywood film ever made, including internationally), and you can laugh and take a break from the Display Wars.

Thanks I've heard good things about the film too.

But in all honesty I heard the NASA story more than 20 years ago
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post #27 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 11:03 AM
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Thanks I've heard good things about the film too.

But in all honesty I heard the NASA story more than 20 years ago

Of course the story precedes the movie. The story goes back to the occurrence of the events in question.

It's the spin on the story as used by the leading characters that is amusing and that highlights the contrast of the two ways at looking at an issue...which was your initial point.

And it has one of the greatest character actor/comedians since Peter Sellers...Boman Irani.
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post #28 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post

I don't believe that says it all. Until I find the LG article with a diagram showing the stacked arrangement, this should suffice:

..."LG has also opted for the use of White OLEDs (WOLED), which produce a white-light from red, green and blue diodes vertically, meaning that they are stacked and so only the end white-light product is visible."...

http://hexus.net/ce/news/audio-visua...hdtv-ces-2012/

This states that it uses White OLED (WOLED) which produce white light and only the white-light product is visible. Without color-filters such a TV can only produce a black & white image.

LG's easy-to-produce stacked red, green and blue OLED's all receive the same current, and therefore can only produce white light, unlike the color-tunable LED's of your linked paper, where each red, green and blue LED can receive a different current.
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post #29 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 11:11 AM
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I love NASA. They've been so good to me


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post #30 of 179 Old 01-12-2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferro View Post

This states that it uses White OLED (WOLED) which produce white light and only the white-light product is visible. Without color-filters such a TV can only produce a black & white image.

LG's easy-to-produce stacked red, green and blue OLED's all receive the same current, and therefore can only produce white light, unlike the color-tunable LED's of your linked paper, where each red, green and blue LED can receive a different current.

Even with White LED, uneven again is a problem


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