New iPad resolution gripe - AVS Forum
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
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The new iPad boasts a screen resolution of 2048 x 1536, or 3.1 million pixels.

Why is it that everyone is going crazy about this, yet many on the forums here state that you don't really even need 1080p at 40" in size.

This thing is being boasted as a PS3/Vita/360 beater in terms of games.

I'm a big gamer. I don't need to elaborate on how a tablet is NOT a bid gaming device. (i would hope not on these forums, anyways.)

Is anyone else getting sick of all this Apple hype?
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:29 AM
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^iPad resolution is not hype, one can say that its display is finally matching its viewing scenario. iPad viewing scenario is akin to reading printed newspaper pages. For newsprint to look just OK about 300 dpi density is required, this iPad has about 270 dpi. iPad is thus aiming to recreate paper, pixel density is now OK, what is missing is contrast ratio/light reflectivity.

TV is about totally different viewing scenario, content-, distance- and positionwise. Hence comparing TV and iPad is nonsense.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca Cold View Post

The new iPad boasts a screen resolution of 2048 x 1536, or 3.1 million pixels.

Why is it that everyone is going crazy about this, yet many on the forums here state that you don't really even need 1080p at 40" in size.

This thing is being boasted as a PS3/Vita/360 beater in terms of games.

I'm a big gamer. I don't need to elaborate on how a tablet is NOT a bid gaming device. (i would hope not on these forums, anyways.)

Is anyone else getting sick of all this Apple hype?

Have you ever seen an iPhone (or any of the other high-resolution phones on the market, of which there are now several)? I'm guessing no. If you had, you'd know these high-resolution screens are just stunning.

People are highly confused about the pixel requirements of video and things like photos, graphics, etc. They are only loosely related. Even if you snowed by the nonsensical arguments about the uselessness of supra-1080 video, those arguments don't even remotely apply to many iPad use scenarios.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:50 AM
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If you where to watch a tv from the same armlength you view the iPad you would see the tv needs more resolution.

Its all about how close you are to the display.

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Old 03-09-2012, 12:45 PM
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Your username may be perfect.

Who watches a 40" set at 12 inches? but a 9.7 screen at 12 inches - it does indeed matter.

And its being touted as having higher specs than those gaming consoles.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca Cold View Post

The new iPad boasts a screen resolution of 2048 x 1536, or 3.1 million pixels.

Why is it that everyone is going crazy about this, yet many on the forums here state that you don't really even need 1080p at 40" in size.

It's the first mass-market computer screen that has exceeded 200 PPI. That's really exciting. (the IBM T220/T221 were not mass-market)

The fact that it has a million pixels more than HDTVs, shows just how stagnant display technology has been. Throughout the '90s we had steady improvements to display technology, and then with HDTV it flattened. We hit 1080p and stopped. (with the exception of 27/30" monitors)

It's exciting because Apple are going to start putting "retina" class displays in their Macs later this year, and hopefully it's going to push TV manufacturers towards 4K/8K displays.

The people claiming that there's no benefit to 1080p below 40" are very wrong, it's as simple as that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca Cold View Post

This thing is being boasted as a PS3/Vita/360 beater in terms of games.

The comment in the Keynote was that the iPad had a higher resolution and more memory than the PS3 or 360, which is true. The 360 has a 512MB shared memory pool, the PS3 has 256MB RAM and 256MB VRAM, the iPad has a 1GB shared memory pool.

The GPU in the iPad 2 is likely very similar to, or exactly the same as the GPU inside the Vita though.

On that size of display, it means you can have graphics that are approaching the current generation of console games, but really nothing is going to be of the same scope. That's more of a marketing thing than something that's going to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca Cold View Post

I'm a big gamer. I don't need to elaborate on how a tablet is NOT a bid gaming device.

The iPad is a huge gaming device, it just isn't well suited to the types of games you enjoy.

It's fantastic for board games, card games, puzzle games, RPGs are fine (including CRPGs like Avadon) "point & click" adventure games, tower defense, strategy RPGs, gamebooks (a form of RPG) rhythm games, endless runners, tunnel racers, 4x strategy games, roguelikes, and recently there have actually been a few platformers and 3D game that control just fine. (such as League of Evil 2, Bean's Quest)

You may not believe it, but I actually sold my 360, in part, to help pay for my iPad, and later traded in the PS3 for iTunes vouchers to buy games & apps.

The iPad covers any portable gaming, and I have a PC for the "big" games. Console games at 720p or less, at 30fps or less, don't cut it any more. With a PC, I can play everything at 1080p, 60fps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca Cold View Post

Is anyone else getting sick of all this Apple hype?

Call it hype if you want, but the iPad is taking over. I was unimpressed with the original iPad, it was too slow, didn't have enough memory, and there wasn't a lot interesting on it. Now there's a huge ecosystem of apps for it, performance is pretty good, and multitasking is decent with the gestures iOS 5 introduced. (but it is a different way of working)

Now, I spend the majority of my computing time in front of the iPad rather than the PC hooked up to my HDTV. It's been relegated to handling media playback and gaming.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:30 PM
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since it's not yet available for consumers, we don't know how good it will look
compared to the hype.

for those that purchase the 3 please let us know your opinion of the quality of the display.

i must admit i'm excited to see this.

also would like to see comparisions between the new ipad screen and the oled smasrt phone displays

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Old 03-09-2012, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

since it's not yet available for consumers, we don't know how good it will look
compared to the hype.

We don't, but a bunch of people who were at the event (i.e. at least semi-serious tech press and bloggers) called it the best display they've ever seen. That's something.
Quote:


for those that purchase the 3 please let us know your opinion of the quality of the display.

I might have mine next Friday.
Quote:


i must admit i'm excited to see this.

I may be more excited, especially since mine was a gift.
Quote:


also would like to see comparisions between the new ipad screen and the oled smasrt phone displays

I'll try to walk it into a Verizon store and look at the biggest screens there. Not sure how valid the compares will be, but it will be fun to try.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:35 PM
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Chronoptimist:
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On that size of display, it means you can have graphics that are approaching the current generation of console games, but really nothing is going to be of the same scope. That's more of a marketing thing than something that's going to happen.

It really seems to be a mismatched setup. It's great for simple apps and low-end gaming but far to lacking in horsepower to push much else at native res. As long as they have some anti-aliasing it could be ok but still far from ideal.
I think a lower resolution Oled( 1080p maybe?) would have given far more of a visual impact as well as much better gaming performance.
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Mastperf View Post

It really seems to be a mismatched setup. It's great for simple apps and low-end gaming but far to lacking in horsepower to push much else at native res.

It will certainly be interesting to see. Even with the iPad 2, there are some impressive looking 3D games.

That said, a lot of the games on the Vita are not even running at native resolution there, and it only has a 960x544 resolution screen with the same/similar GPU, though I hear its OS is rather bloated, wasting a lot of resources. The scope of the games is probably quite different as well though, with them trying to port console-style games over, rather than creating portable gaming experiences.

Most of the games I enjoy on the iPad are not 3D though, so it's not a great concern for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastperf View Post

As long as they have some anti-aliasing it could be ok but still far from ideal.

At that resolution, antialiasing is far less of a concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastperf View Post

I think a lower resolution Oled( 1080p maybe?) would have given far more of a visual impact as well as much better gaming performance.

I disagree. Here is a comparison between the iPad 2 and iPad 3 screens. (click for full resolution)





The resolution makes a huge difference.

I expect that the next change we will see to the display, is having it bonded to the glass as they do with the iPhone 4/4S, and as Sony do with their Opticontrast televisions.

Then maybe a generation or two after that, OLED will have matured to the point where they can offer "retina" resolutions, and Apple will consider them suitable for use in an iPad. Right now OLED screens are dimmer, consumer more power, suffer from image retention/burn-in, and the highest resolution screens all use a Pentile subpixel matrix, which means they effectively only have around 2/3 the resolution listed.

A 1080p screen was never an option, because the iPad screen has a 4:3 aspect ratio (16:9/16:10 is awful for tablet use) and scaling up old applications would look terrible, rather than simply pixel doubling them. (where they look blocky, but have no scaling artefacts)
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Old 03-10-2012, 07:32 PM
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Yeah but why just NEW IPAD. What are they gonna name the next one, the NEWER IPAD?
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Old 03-10-2012, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post


Then maybe a generation or two after that, OLED will have matured to the point where they can offer "retina" resolutions, and Apple will consider them suitable for use in an iPad. Right now OLED screens are dimmer, consumer more power, suffer from image retention/burn-in, and the highest resolution screens all use a Pentile subpixel matrix, which means they effectively only have around 2/3 the resolution listed.

FWIW, OLED's using fine metal masks should be able to get a resolution in range of the iPad without using Pentile. They are supposed to top out somewhere in the mid-200's in terms of ppi. That doesnt get you a "retina" display for a smartphone, but it does for a tablet (iPad3 at 262ppi).

I do agree that the iPad display is a huge deal. I think it is going to be one of those things that people are going to want as soon as they see it. The specs wont convey the difference in the experience.
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:22 PM
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Chronoptimist:
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At that resolution, antialiasing is far less of a concern.

I was referring to the inevitable upscaling that will have to take place for the more demanding games.
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Old 03-11-2012, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MrBobb View Post

Yeah but why just NEW IPAD. What are they gonna name the next one, the NEWER IPAD?

It's just iPad, not "New iPad". Just like the Honda Accord is called Honda Accord, even when it's redesigned. Just like its called iMac, even when redesigned.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:32 AM
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I'm tempted to buy an outgoing iPad 2 @ 399. I have 64GB 4S, and the retina display on it is incredible, especially at first, coming from my 3GS. I'm also hesitant to buy the old one because I'm sure I'll kick myself once I see the retina display. Apple is innovating in mobile display in a way no one else is, and hopefully those innovations lead to an end in the stagnation in television displays.

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Old 03-11-2012, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBobb View Post

Yeah but why just NEW IPAD. What are they gonna name the next one, the NEWER IPAD?

It's just called the iPad. Apple says the new iPad because it's the new iPad, not because that's it's name. It's funny how many people are getting confused over that.

The next one will be the new iPad as well, and the old one will be the iPad 3. (or third generation iPad)
Nothing in the marketing of the last iPad, except maybe Apple's website, called it the iPad 2, the back of mine just says iPad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

I'm tempted to buy an outgoing iPad 2 @ 399. I have 64GB 4S, and the retina display on it is incredible, especially at first, coming from my 3GS. I'm also hesitant to buy the old one because I'm sure I'll kick myself once I see the retina display. Apple is innovating in mobile display in a way no one else is, and hopefully those innovations lead to an end in the stagnation in television displays.

Unless you absolutely cannot afford the extra $100, or are getting an amazing deal on a second-hand iPad 2, I wouldn't recommend it. The new display is a massive upgrade over the old one, and while I don't know what your intended use is, I mainly use mine for reading, which will see the most benefit from the new display.

I bought one of the new Kindles for reading books, but it hasn't been getting as much use as I expected, because you need to be in good light to read it, and while I do a lot of reading, these days it seems to be more geared towards online articles, or technical papers which don't work well on the e-ink display.

I haven't liked reading books on my iPad's screen, but I expect the retina display will change that.
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Old 03-11-2012, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

It's just called the iPad. Apple says the new iPad because it's the new iPad, not because that's it's name. It's funny how many people are getting confused over that.

The next one will be the new iPad as well, and the old one will be the iPad 3. (or third generation iPad)
Nothing in the marketing of the last iPad, except maybe Apple's website, called it the iPad 2, the back of mine just says iPad.

Actually, the previous model was, in fact, called the iPad 2. The new model is, in fact, called "iPad". They are simply dropping the numbering on iPad to make it similar to iPod Touch, which never had numbers, Macbook Air, iMac, etc. I suspect the new iPhone this fall will also have no number.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:02 PM
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Here, I will solve all of the trouble people are having naming the the "new Ipad".

From here on out, it is now officially known as the 2012 Apple Ipad.
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Old 03-11-2012, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Actually, the previous model was, in fact, called the iPad 2. The new model is, in fact, called "iPad". They are simply dropping the numbering on iPad to make it similar to iPod Touch, which never had numbers, Macbook Air, iMac, etc. I suspect the new iPhone this fall will also have no number.

There is nothing on the box, on the device, or in the documentation that refers to it as the iPad 2.

The website did say "iPad 2" and I believe the end of most commercials it ends with a screen that says "iPad 2" but no-one ever called it that in them. That was more of a marketing thing though, the brand is big enough now that there's no need for that even.

Funnily enough, whenever I talked about it with anyone, it was always referred to as "the new iPad" never the "iPad 2". (oh, is that the new iPad? can I have a look? etc.)


I have to say though, I'm not sure that it's a good thing. I had to update an iPod Touch here manually the other day, and I had no idea what revision it was, because everything just said "iPod Touch" and Apple's website said to look at the back to find out, but it had a skin on that covered it up. When we bought it, I'm sure I could have told you it was a third generation device, but I had no idea the other night when trying to download the iOS 5.1 update. (it was too busy, and iTunes wouldn't connect to the update server)

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From here on out, it is now officially known as the 2012 Apple Ipad.

Officially?
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Old 03-11-2012, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

There is nothing on the box, on the device, or in the documentation that refers to it as the iPad 2.

The website did say "iPad 2" and I believe the end of most commercials it ends with a screen that says "iPad 2" but no-one ever called it that in them. That was more of a marketing thing though, the brand is big enough now that there's no need for that even.

Right, Apple marketed the iPad 2 as the "iPad2" both on the web and in all marketing and in store. In fact, Chron, they still do

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/hom...ad/family/ipad

The current model is being marketed as "iPad", online, in store and in advertising. That is absolutely a change for iPad, and makes it consistent with the way most Apple products have been marketed for several years, including: Mac Mini, iMac, iPod Touch, Macbook, Macbook Pro, Macbook Air. You have to look at the part number to know which "generation" the product is.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Old 03-12-2012, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

It will certainly be interesting to see. Even with the iPad 2, there are some impressive looking 3D games.

That said, a lot of the games on the Vita are not even running at native resolution there, and it only has a 960x544 resolution screen with the same/similar GPU, though I hear its OS is rather bloated, wasting a lot of resources. The scope of the games is probably quite different as well though, with them trying to port console-style games over, rather than creating portable gaming experiences.

Most of the games I enjoy on the iPad are not 3D though, so it's not a great concern for me.

At that resolution, antialiasing is far less of a concern.

I disagree. Here is a comparison between the iPad 2 and iPad 3 screens. (click for full resolution)





The resolution makes a huge difference.

I expect that the next change we will see to the display, is having it bonded to the glass as they do with the iPhone 4/4S, and as Sony do with their Opticontrast televisions.

Then maybe a generation or two after that, OLED will have matured to the point where they can offer "retina" resolutions, and Apple will consider them suitable for use in an iPad. Right now OLED screens are dimmer, consumer more power, suffer from image retention/burn-in, and the highest resolution screens all use a Pentile subpixel matrix, which means they effectively only have around 2/3 the resolution listed.

A 1080p screen was never an option, because the iPad screen has a 4:3 aspect ratio (16:9/16:10 is awful for tablet use) and scaling up old applications would look terrible, rather than simply pixel doubling them. (where they look blocky, but have no scaling artefacts)

Sorry, neither I nor (4) others in my office thought either of those images appeared "sharper/more detailed" than the other- especially 18" or so from our eyes which is where an ipad is viewed.

Brighter/more vivid, "better" color? Absolutely.

Perhaps all 5 of our eyeball-sets are shot, but I was 20/15 at the opto 9 months ago.

That said, I'll still be getting the new ipad this Friday.

James

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Old 03-12-2012, 10:41 AM
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Sorry, neither I nor (4) others in my office thought either of those images appeared "sharper/more detailed" than the other- especially 18" or so from our eyes which is where an ipad is viewed.

Brighter/more vivid, "better" color? Absolutely.

Perhaps all 5 of our eyeball-sets are shot, but I was 20/15 at the opto 9 months ago.

That said, I'll still be getting the new ipad this Friday.

James

Did you click the images to view them at full resolution? The difference should be pretty obvious.

Here are full resolution screenshots to compare as well:
  1. iPad 2, iPad 3
  2. iPad 2, iPad 3
  3. iPad 2, iPad 3
  4. iPad 2, iPad 3
Again, you must click on the images to view them at full resolution when doing a comparison.
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

We don't, but a bunch of people who were at the event (i.e. at least semi-serious tech press and bloggers) called it the best display they've ever seen. That's something.


I might have mine next Friday.


I may be more excited, especially since mine was a gift.


I'll try to walk it into a Verizon store and look at the biggest screens there. Not sure how valid the compares will be, but it will be fun to try.



damn you!!!

no one will buy me a (new) ipad as a gift.
lucky guy!

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Old 03-12-2012, 07:04 PM
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I think it's pretty funny to see so many people, so greatly divided on this subject. Half of everyone thinks it's great, and that the resolution is very exciting. While the other half are very disappointed and are far from amused by Apple's new specs.

On AVSforum, where most members acknowledge the uselessness for 1080p on 40" or smaller TV's and many use their personal TV's for HTPC use and general web surfing, there is excitement for a 10" screen with 2048 x 1536 resolution.

Regardless of the pixel number or dpi of the new Ipad display, it will still be used primarily to browse the web, play angry birds, and watch streaming video for short periods of time. The greater screen may make the images pop more, or seem more vibrant, but it will be rather useless for the Ipad's intended use.

The word "innovation" has slowly changed to "iteration".
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Old 03-12-2012, 07:35 PM
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^^ what is iPad's intended use?

Do you recall what caused the advent of smartphone that we know now rather than blackberry lookalike?
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

^^ what is iPad's intended use?

Do you recall what caused the advent of smartphone that we know now rather than blackberry lookalike?

It's intended use is to be a media consumption device. To allow people to easily access the web and any photos, music, and movies that they may currently have or intend to purchase in the future. It can be used to read the occasional article or book, but it is hardly designed for this. A higher resolution will not change this, despite this being what people are expecting to happen.

Innovation is the reason why Blackberry is no longer favored. Apple wasn't completely innovative in their product, but rather what they were selling to people. The option of another well made smartphone, that had entertainment combined with some business practicality.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:14 PM
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As late as 5 years ago telcos were saying there were no content for 3G. They were actually waiting for developers to write content in WAP, rather than develop mobile HTTP browser. It's was so obvious that it's ridiculous but never underestimate corporate inertia.

Apple did what was blatantly obvious for years: internet was the killer app. iPad is nothing but a large iPod Touch. But the experience for internet access and multimedia is vastly different just with different size screen. Just as it was so painful trying to surf the net using the old blackberry.

What was iPad made for again? "Media consumption" is an academic/ marketing answer. Would you be happy having "tailored" media streamed to your device by manufacturers like Samsung & LG (which is what they are trying to do with their Smart TV). I'll jack in a NoteBook anytime of the day.

Better screen is a non-starter for user experience for internet use? I thought that's what Nokia was saying 5 years back when iPhone first came out and Nokia claiming they have 80% of "smartphone" market share with the N series... whatever that means... And the world has already progressed since then
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:28 PM
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My only complaint about the iPad screen is that I can't get something like it in a notebook. I'd love a 12-14" notebook with a high resolution IPS screen.
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Old 03-13-2012, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterofBlasting View Post

On AVSforum, where most members acknowledge the uselessness for 1080p on 40" or smaller TV's and many use their personal TV's for HTPC use and general web surfing, there is excitement for a 10" screen with 2048 x 1536 resolution.

1080p is not enough, I have been saying so for a long time. Especially when you have a PC hooked up, the lack of resolution is very apparent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterofBlasting View Post

Regardless of the pixel number or dpi of the new Ipad display, it will still be used primarily to browse the web, play angry birds, and watch streaming video for short periods of time. The greater screen may make the images pop more, or seem more vibrant, but it will be rather useless for the Ipad's intended use.

Browsing the web is the main thing that will benefit from this increased resolution.

Here's a screenshot of this post on an iPad 2:


While I can't speak for Angry Birds, I am very excited for board/card games on the new display. 1024x768 clearly isn't enough for the art used in most of them.

In games like Ascension, you need to double-tap cards to bring up a magnified view to read the text on them, for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterofBlasting View Post

The word "innovation" has slowly changed to "iteration".

Yep, forcing the stagnant display industry forward and challenging them to produce print-quality displays is iteration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy2000 View Post

My only complaint about the iPad screen is that I can't get something like it in a notebook. I'd love a 12-14" notebook with a high resolution IPS screen.

They will start showing up in Macs later this year. I believe ASUS just announced a 1080p Ultrabook the other day, in response to this.
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:26 AM
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I never said 1080p was enough. I was just pointing out the slight contradiction between what the general consensus has been, to what people are now so excited about on the new Ipad.

In the eyes of Apple lovers, Apple can only innovate. Despite higher resolution TV's being designed for the past few years, with actual models being shown at various events of the past year and planned events coming up. Nope, Apple is leading the pack by releasing an ultra high resolution 10" screen.

I think what you are reffering to as "print-quality displays" is the Kindle disply. Not the Fire, but the actual Kindle made for reading.

Do you realize that there have been 2560x1600 PC monitors available for a while now? You don't see people running out to pick these up.
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