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-   -   Sharp elite or vt50? (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/1407458-sharp-elite-vt50.html)

Adamd 04-25-2012 07:13 PM

Well I'm trying to decide on a new tv and it's between a vt50 65 inch thative already ordered and paid for or a sharp elite 60 inch, the sharp is 400 bucks more and I'm really having a hard time deciding. I've spent weeks reading on forums but I still can't decide. Would be easier if I had a vt50 to look at. I've already owned a vt30 and I liked the look of the elite better, 3d was very bright and cross talk was very similar on both sets. Any thoughts?

rogo 04-26-2012 12:04 AM

So the VT50 is not out yet in the U.S. That said, a 60" is too small for me. A 70" Elite is my first choice, but I can't rationalize paying the extra $2500 for it. I can afford it, but I can't rationalize it. I figure not spending it will literally pay for the replacement for the VT50 in 4-5 years.

That's me. That's not you, but it's my thinking.

Unless there is a showstopper, I'll be ordering a VT50 in a month.

mr. wally 04-26-2012 01:57 PM

wow that's quite a price point.

so the same size top of the line lcd costs $2500 more than the best plasma?

that's a huge difference, especially given that the elites seem to have a somewhat high return rate.

pds3 04-26-2012 01:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

wow that's quite a price point.

so the same size top of the line lcd costs $2500 more than the best plasma?

that's a huge difference, especially given that the elites seem to have a somewhat high return rate.

Maybe not so much of a price difference if you were purchasing a top of the line Kuro (if they were available)

Adamd 04-26-2012 10:10 PM

I went today and sat with the elite for about 30 mins, then with a st50 in another store and I'm really leaning towards the vt50 now. I don't know if I could get used to the elites viewing angle. The colors on the st50 looked alot better to my eyes as well. I really don't want to move down to a 60 as well and a 70 inch is out of the question. The only thing the elite really has that I like is it's bright and no worry of IR.

rogo 04-26-2012 11:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

wow that's quite a price point.

so the same size top of the line lcd costs $2500 more than the best plasma?

that's a huge difference, especially given that the elites seem to have a somewhat high return rate.

Well, the 70" costs $2500 more than the 65" Panasonic will.

The 60" Elite costs something like $1000 more than the 65" Panasonic will. These numbers depend on what you actually pay for the Elite of course. Some people actually pay more, some will pay a bit less I imagine.

hd_newbie 04-27-2012 11:35 AM

Didn't Sharp Elite get hands-down better reviews overall? I read reviews saying it was the best display since Kuro.

rogo 04-27-2012 12:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

Didn't Sharp Elite get hands-down better reviews overall? I read reviews saying it was the best display since Kuro.

Most reviewers prefer it to things like last year's Panasonic. Not all do, however.

And the magnitude of that preference is not exactly massive. Given the high likelihood that this year's Panasonic is going to be meaningfully improved over last year's and that the new Sharp Elite won't be out till much later in the year (and is more likely to see smaller improvements unless they move to the 4K display, which I now find less likely)... I suspect the gap will be even smaller.

Also, this discussion kind of misses the point. Let's just grant that the Sharp is better. If you think the Panasonic is better, buying the Sharp is quite frankly odd (unless you must have 70"). So let's grant the Sharp is better. Is it "$2500 better"?

That's kind of what we're discussing. For people who are price indifferent, any improvement is worth it. For people who aren't, the answer is, "Probably not."

Gary McCoy 04-27-2012 03:16 PM

There clearly are huge differences between 60", 65", and 70" screens. If you already have a seating area set up at a given distance from the screen, you need to pick the right SIZE of screen according to your entirely subjective preferences. The two sets are also both among the best available televisions. It is unlikely that any aspect of video performance will affect your perception of screen quality more than image size.

Adamd 04-27-2012 05:02 PM

Well I've made up my mind and I'm going with the 65 vt50, my seating is exactly perfect for THX viewing with the 65 inch. And with reading the vt reviews it sounds like an amazing tv, not to say the elite in not but I think they both have strong points but I think I'll prefer the Panasonic. Thanks for the input.

rogo 04-27-2012 08:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

There clearly are huge differences between 60", 65", and 70" screens. If you already have a seating area set up at a given distance from the screen, you need to pick the right SIZE of screen according to your entirely subjective preferences. The two sets are also both among the best available televisions. It is unlikely that any aspect of video performance will affect your perception of screen quality more than image size.

There is much wisdom there Gary.

That said, I think a lot of people can be happy with a 65 or 70, for example... Or a 65 or a 60....

I know that in my case the two larger sizes would both work for me, the smaller size would not. Of course, I'm also confident in the image quality of both displays.

andy sullivan 04-27-2012 11:47 PM

When faced with two choices, really good PQ and a 70" or great PQ and a 65"?

Gary McCoy 04-28-2012 04:51 AM

As the saying goes, "quantity has a quality all it's own". What I mean by that is that BOTH the Sharp Elite LCD and the Panasonic plasma vt50 are top-of-the-line HDTVs. Unless you plan to use them in an extremely bright sunlit room (where the bright LCD has the advantage) or in a totally darkened home theater room with dark colored furnishings (where the PDP would definitely shine) they either would offer an outstanding image quality. But the larger screen would end up being preferred by almost everyone after a short period of adjustment. "Bigger is better" as long as you are not sitting so close as to actually see the "screendoor effect" of individual pixels. The immersive effect of a large screen that sucks you into the movie is well known, the two two standards for screen size/seating distance are the THX and the SMPTE standards. Both are well explained in the archives here.

pds3 04-28-2012 04:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

As the saying goes, "quantity has a quality all it's own". What I mean by that is that BOTH the Sharp Elite LCD and the Panasonic plasma vt50 are top-of-the-line HDTVs. Unless you plan to use them in an extremely bright sunlit room (where the bright LCD has the advantage) or in a totally darkened home theater room with dark colored furnishings (where the PDP would definitely shine) they either would offer an outstanding image quality. But the larger screen would end up being preferred by almost everyone after a short period of adjustment. "Bigger is better" as long as you are not sitting so close as to actually see the "screendoor effect" of individual pixels. The immersive effect of a large screen that sucks you into the movie is well known, the two two standards for screen size/seating distance are the THX and the SMPTE standards. Both are well explained in the archives here.

Extremely well spoken. You really can't fully appreciate a large screen until you've seen it in your own home. Amazing how much larger and impressive they look in your living room.

Adamd 04-28-2012 07:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

As the saying goes, "quantity has a quality all it's own". What I mean by that is that BOTH the Sharp Elite LCD and the Panasonic plasma vt50 are top-of-the-line HDTVs. Unless you plan to use them in an extremely bright sunlit room (where the bright LCD has the advantage) or in a totally darkened home theater room with dark colored furnishings (where the PDP would definitely shine) they either would offer an outstanding image quality. But the larger screen would end up being preferred by almost everyone after a short period of adjustment. "Bigger is better" as long as you are not sitting so close as to actually see the "screendoor effect" of individual pixels. The immersive effect of a large screen that sucks you into the movie is well known, the two two standards for screen size/seating distance are the THX and the SMPTE standards. Both are well explained in the archives here.

The tv will be going in my theater room that is light controlled so I think the vt50 is the only choice then.

Gary McCoy 04-28-2012 02:27 PM

OK. But "light controlled" is not the same as pitch black room with the video screen turned off. That plus dark furnishings which do not reflect off of the glass screen is the corner case where the plasma excells. (Think "cave darkness".) The corner case where the LCD excells is the bright room with light-colored furnishings.

If you even allow light to leak around your blinds, or use articifial lighting in the same room, you are NOT in the corner case where the plasma excells. You therefore need to please your own eyes. More people prefer the look of LCD in the marketplace as a whole. In the AVS forum, more people prefer plasma over LCD. There is no right or wrong, only the display that pleases YOU. I suggest that you bother to form your own opinion.

ebernazz 04-28-2012 03:32 PM

Hey Gary -There is an old saying that only the weakest statements start with OK...BUT... And you my friend are the epitome of that.

HE DID MAKE A CHOICE THAT HE THINKS WILL PLEASE HIM! Stop trying to get him to make the choice you would!

Adamd 04-28-2012 03:42 PM

My theater room can go completely dark, the only light will be under the door from the next room in the day time. The elite is a great set but I was put off a little by the pulsing problems and color issues.

Fanaticalism 04-28-2012 08:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

OK. But "light controlled" is not the same as pitch black room with the video screen turned off. That plus dark furnishings which do not reflect off of the glass screen is the corner case where the plasma excells. (Think "cave darkness".) The corner case where the LCD excells is the bright room with light-colored furnishings.

If you even allow light to leak around your blinds, or use articifial lighting in the same room, you are NOT in the corner case where the plasma excells. You therefore need to please your own eyes. More people prefer the look of LCD in the marketplace as a whole. In the AVS forum, more people prefer plasma over LCD. There is no right or wrong, only the display that pleases YOU. I suggest that you bother to form your own opinion.

You started out as unbiased with great advice and now with things like needing even dark furnishings is incredibly ridiculous.

Marketplace as a whole? Have numbers for that? And please don't post general sales numbers as plasmas don't even exist until 50" now aside from one model from Samsung and Insigna.

Gary McCoy 04-29-2012 03:33 AM

You guys just don't get it. The man HAD NO OPINION of his own. He read reviews but he never bothered to look. He doesn't even know what his preferences are. I think that's really unwise.

Adamd 04-29-2012 09:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

You guys just don't get it. The man HAD NO OPINION of his own. He read reviews but he never bothered to look. He doesn't even know what his preferences are. I think that's really unwise.

I know what my preferences are I've owned the vt20 and vt30 and a Sony hx800 led, Ive also went to see the elite and st50 in store three times in the the last week. I was always set on the vt50 I pre ordered it over a month ago. Truth is I was getting very impatient and saw the elite in store and was very impressed. But after thinking about it and reading about the elite I think the vt50 is a better choice I just have to be patient.

ebernazz 04-29-2012 10:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

You guys just don't get it. The man HAD NO OPINION of his own. He read reviews but he never bothered to look. He doesn't even know what his preferences are. I think that's really unwise.

And you KNEW this how? I am sorry WE don't get it and you you alone do.

specuvestor 04-29-2012 06:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

You started out as unbiased with great advice and now with things like needing even dark furnishings is incredibly ridiculous.

That is until the choice is not LCD

2012 is shaping up to be pretty much 2011 (again)

HogPilot 04-30-2012 12:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

That is until the choice is not LCD

2012 is shaping up to be pretty much 2011 (again)

Why bother having the facts? They are rarely convenient when forwarding an agenda

Ken Ross 05-03-2012 01:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamd View Post

Well I'm trying to decide on a new tv and it's between a vt50 65 inch thative already ordered and paid for or a sharp elite 60 inch, the sharp is 400 bucks more and I'm really having a hard time deciding. I've spent weeks reading on forums but I still can't decide. Would be easier if I had a vt50 to look at. I've already owned a vt30 and I liked the look of the elite better, 3d was very bright and cross talk was very similar on both sets. Any thoughts?

I've got the 60" Elite and I've only had plasmas prior. I was always a plasma advocate (still am) and have owned two Pioneer Kuros, the last being a Pro 151. But having now lived with the Elite, I've come to realize there are undeniable advantages to the tech contained within the Elite.

When I look at plasmas in comparison, their imagery looks a bit dull when full screen (or mostly full-screen) brightness is called for. The ABL still gets in the way of producing the bright, large-screen area imagery contained within the signal.

Of course bright full-screen images are not new for LCD technology, but having the unparallelled dynamic range of the Elite together with its incredible black level performance, is indeed new.

It's this combination that's made me a strong advocate of the Elite's PQ.

For me at least, it would be hard going back to plasma. My next display will be either a larger version of the Elite or a large screen OLED down the road. I need a display at least 70" for my next unit, but would really like an 80".

I'm still a bit skeptical of Panasonic and their history of rising black levels. IMO the jury is still out on that. I have no doubt the new Panasonics will produce a great picture, but it just depends on the kind of picture you're after...there are varying degrees of excellence.

ChinaCat 01-20-2013 01:19 PM

Sorry to dredge up an old thread but I'm facing this same exact decision now. I've had my heart set on the VT50 65" but when I went to buy it found an open box Elite Pro 60" for the same price that comes with a 5-year warranty. I really don't know what to do. Is there any more info or opinions on these two sets?

Thank you kindly.

dsinger 01-20-2013 01:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChinaCat View Post

Sorry to dredge up an old thread but I'm facing this same exact decision now. I've had my heart set on the VT50 65" but when I went to buy it found an open box Elite Pro 60" for the same price that comes with a 5-year warranty. I really don't know what to do. Is there any more info or opinions on these two sets?

Thank you kindly.

There are long threads on both units in the respective panel type sections. I have a 70" Elite and am very happy with it. Others will like the VT50. On the other hand, larger is better IMO.

rogo 01-20-2013 03:35 PM

I'm a big fan of Ken's opinions and agree with most things he says, but....

1) There just isn't any evidence that the blacks will rise on current Panasonics.

2) There just isn't much actual content where plasma ABL matters, outside of the last 3 seconds of a lot of commercials. I have a current VT50 and just don't see this "lack of brightness" on actual content very often.

My next screen will be bigger, a 70" or an 80". It won't be a plasma.

But it won't have the Elite's clear limitations from off axis or its color issues either.

Nor will it have its much higher costs.

Ken Ross 01-20-2013 07:53 PM

Thank you Mark, you know the feelings are mutual. smile.gif

That was a rather stale post of mine that was resurrected, although I do stand by most of what I said.

It's now a number of months since that post and I do agree that, as of now, there is no evidence that the black levels are rising in the current iteration of Panasonics. Whatever change they acknowledged they made to prevent this, appears to be working.

Where I do disagree with you Mark is the number of instances where the ABL does matter. During the period that I had both my 60" Kuro in the living room and my 60" Elite in the den, there were many instances where the differences were more than obvious. Whether it was nature shows depicting expanses of snow, hockey games with expanses of ice or even bright outdoor scenes with brilliant blue skies, the Elite's far greater 'headroom' was very clear. To my eyes it made these scenes simply more believable and enjoyable with a greater depth to the image.

Yes, the brilliant whites of a commercial are certainly another manifestation of the absence of an ABL, but who gives a rat's tush about that. I think living with both techs make you aware that these differences occur more often than you might think...and yes, I'm talking about 2 ISF'd displays, not one set to some ugly dynamic mode. wink.gif

We do agree about the off-axis issues of the Elite, it's undeniable. I don't recommend the display for large family viewing or seating that would put someone significantly off-axis.

I disagree about the significance of the color issues (essentially low luminance cyan). It's simply difficult to see, seldom occurs and was totally missed by many professional reviewers. But having spent 100s of posts on that issue alone, I certainly don't wish to resurrect that debate again. smile.gif

However for your next non-plasma screen @ 70" or 80" without off-axis limitations, I assume you're talking OLED? If so, keep that Panny polished and in peak operating condition, it will be a long wait. smile.gif

rogo 01-21-2013 12:48 AM

I'm not necessarily convinced my next display will be an OLED, although I'd hope it will be.

For what it's worth, I plan on buying it in 2016 or 2017 and I believe either by then, mass-market OLED will be common or LCD will have gotten that much better at its remaining problems thanks to technologies like IGZO and even better displays using techs like IPS.

It is my sincere hope that OLED mfg. and mass production are perfected by 2015-2016.

Oh, and I agree with your remarks about "headroom" and ABL. I just don't think the lack of it is detracting from my enjoyment very often. If I had an LCD sitting next to the TV, I'd be more acutely aware of it, but the plasma is plenty bright even on bright outdoor scenes. And what's noteworthy is that something like a snow-covered mountain scene is far less white than, say, those commercial "billboard" end cuts. I can tell this because of how agressive the ABL is on commercials and how much less apparent it is on the other kind of scenes.

The VT50 has much more brightness to work with than your Kuro, I'd suspect.


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