Could Apple really carve out a space in the TV market? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 169 Old 06-04-2012, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by chirpie View Post

The diametric opposite of a fanboy is equally baffling.

Microsoft makes some products I can not stand but just because I had an undying hatred of IE 6 doesn't mean I wouldn't buy an XBOX 360.

Agreed on both. IE6 was, indeed, so terrible I haven't used any variant of IE on any platform since. Yet I, too, have an Xbox 360.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #92 of 169 Old 06-04-2012, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by chirpie View Post

The diametric opposite of a fanboy is equally baffling.

Microsoft makes some products I can not stand but just because I had an undying hatred of IE 6 doesn't mean I wouldn't buy an XBOX 360.

I couldn't possibly agree more.

I'm generally a fan of Apple; both the company and its products. I own many Apple products, in fact. Conversely, I've never been a big fan of Microsoft, yet I also own several MS products, including keyboards and mice, a computer running Windows 7, an original Xbox, and an Xbox 360.

Regardless of the "side", those who seem to express outright obsessive hatred are as confounding to me as the fanboy drones. They seem to be two sides of the same coin. Computers, cars, politics... Extremism seems to come from the same "all or nothing" place.

People are interesting.

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post #93 of 169 Old 06-05-2012, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ecrabb View Post

People are interesting.

I say the downfall of civilization. Extreme sells, shade of gray, compromise, what how boring is that.

Am too generally a fan of Apple's products, but I've used Windows since day#1 and have no inclination to change. Even Steve Jobs admitted MS may not have taste but those darned people improve their product, namely Windows, and version by version, dang they get pretty close.

I did however had high hopes for Zune. I posted, I begged Gates to hire a top-notch designer for the Zune, I wanted a competitor to the iPod, but after I saw that decisively uninspiring square box, a big sight.

But this is not a MS vs Apple thread, when MS comes up with their own TV thing, maybe we can discuss. I do remember MS "attempted" to start the IP-TV universe and where is it?
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post #94 of 169 Old 06-05-2012, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Nah. Just a proper understanding that Apple historic wise doesn't always get it right with a product. Its one thing to be a Apple supporter, and to recognize they have done well in certain product lines/products. Its a whole another debate to whether Apple with all the money in the world can change a video entertainment ecosystem that they don't have that much say about because they aren't the content owners and because of the existing competition.

Yah. Contrasting their now dated, really trivial "failures" against the last 15 years is aking to baling the ocean with a thimble.

They don't need to "change" anything, anyway. They just need to be "apple". That is: deliver a fantastically easy to learn/navigate, with cutting edge usability and performance. See ipod. See ipad. See iphone.

And I'm not an "apple supporter". I'm a supporter of CE's that are easy to use, perform well, and are reliable. Apple builds a $hitload of these products.

It's really useless banter at this point. They will enter the market and they will do well.


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post #95 of 169 Old 06-06-2012, 07:16 AM
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Take any old LCD tv - slap the apple logo on it and build in support for iTunes with apps & iPad integration and they will sell like crazy to the general public
quality if the display will not matter at all.
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post #96 of 169 Old 06-06-2012, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post


Wow you sound like an apple fanboy.


I own an iphone and love it.


But lets be honest... Apple is not a great as the fanboys pretend and I have no faith in a TV product from them becoming industry standard the way ipod or iphone did.

I might sound like one, but am I wrong in my assessment?

I'm not saying that their success in other markets dictates success in the HDTV world. I'm saying that they've got a leg up over other tech companies who have tried - or who will try - to take over the living room - they have experience getting the content makers and providers to see their vision and join them to make it happen. The bar is nowhere near as high this time as it was 10 years ago when they took over downloadable legal music.

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post #97 of 169 Old 06-06-2012, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by wlcohen View Post

Take any old LCD tv - slap the apple logo on it and build in support for iTunes with apps & iPad integration and they will sell like crazy to the general public
quality if the display will not matter at all.

Apple "makes" (More like sources...) very good displays. Their iPad 3 display shows 95% of the sRGB color gamut. Very few displays can brag this. With the right video or photos, it's very impressive. Their cinema display IPS panels are great. I stare at one all day at work and at home and while not perfect, have me believing that should they go into the TV market, display quality will not be an afterthought as some imply.
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post #98 of 169 Old 06-08-2012, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by zrockstar View Post

Think APPS. no one thought the iPhone was too revolutionary until they realized what app developers could create and do with the device. With apps and iOS the possibilities of what your tv can become and do our endless! Gaming, video, music, computing, etc. And with Siri, even better. "Siri, record all the Seinfeld episodes and any soccer game that comes on this weekend" oh yeah, and your DVR is in apples iCloud so you an watch anything recorded on any device. That my friends is revolutionary.

Not revolutionary at all. Windows media center, Ceton Corp, my phone--i can do any of this now without giving one thin dime to Steve Jobs corpse.
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post #99 of 169 Old 06-10-2012, 03:14 PM
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back in march,

did Foxconn (owned by Hon Hai) invest in Sharp to build Apple TVs?
http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/28/2908410/bloomberg-hon-hai-foxconn-sharp-apple-television

latest rumours,

analyst believes that Hon Hai has begun production of the Apple television
http://www.macworld.com.au/news/analyst-believes-apple-television-will-be-unveiled-at-wwdc-57032/
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post #100 of 169 Old 06-11-2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

back in march,
did Foxconn (owned by Hon Hai) invest in Sharp to build Apple TVs?
http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/28/2908410/bloomberg-hon-hai-foxconn-sharp-apple-television
latest rumours,
analyst believes that Hon Hai has begun production of the Apple television
http://www.macworld.com.au/news/analyst-believes-apple-television-will-be-unveiled-at-wwdc-57032/


i sure hope apple's i panel is not just another edge lit lcd. unless the other functions of the panel are off the charts,
i wouldn't want to step down in terms of pq just to get an apple tv.

i hope they realize that if they want the enthusiasts to jump in, their panel better be retina quality or 4k capable.

neflixis our nemesis
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post #101 of 169 Old 06-12-2012, 02:48 PM
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Apple removed tons of glare on their new retina Macbook Pro by getting rid of the huge contradiction that is glass. I hope they don't use glass for their TV.
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post #102 of 169 Old 06-12-2012, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by seanclayton View Post

Apple removed tons of glare on their new retina Macbook Pro by getting rid of the huge contradiction that is glass. I hope they don't use glass for their TV.

LCD panels are currently made on glass. Not sure what you mean there.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #103 of 169 Old 06-12-2012, 05:48 PM
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I'm not a big fan of Apple. I'm especially disgusted by their cultish fanboys. But hey, I like the IPhone and IPad.

It will be interesting to see the development here. I think they have an opportunity because it seems like a whole lot of people are looking for an alternative to cable or dish. Fanboys will help get immediate market share. But tv providers also control the Internet and it also seems like many providers are making high data usage more expensive or even impossible. That could be harmful to full development.
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post #104 of 169 Old 06-15-2012, 05:42 AM
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I'm going to say a big "NO" to all of these. The people on these forums spend their days whining and complaining about the smallest issues in very high end TVs (If you think I'm lying just check the posts). That is not to say that we are whiners and complainers, I'm merely emphasizing my point. However, on the release of an Apple TV we WILL BE FORCED to get out our magnifying glasses, special equipment and experts and go to town. In other words:

APPLE, WE WILL TEAR YOU A NEW ONE!

^^

Cold
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post #105 of 169 Old 06-29-2012, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by agogley View Post

I'm not a big fan of Apple. I'm especially disgusted by their cultish fanboys. But hey, I like the IPhone and IPad.
It will be interesting to see the development here. I think they have an opportunity because it seems like a whole lot of people are looking for an alternative to cable or dish. Fanboys will help get immediate market share. But tv providers also control the Internet and it also seems like many providers are making high data usage more expensive or even impossible. That could be harmful to full development.

Really? Opening your post with inflammatory comments designed to get a rise out of people? If I didn't know better, I might think this was behavior of a mythical forest creature whose domicile of choice was a bridge?!

All I can say is - good for you.

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post #106 of 169 Old 07-06-2012, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by capnsmak View Post

I've been a longtime reader of the boards but haven't posted until now - but I've been talking with David about a story I'm interested in and wanted to see if anyone has thoughts on Apple's potential entrance into the TV space (beyond just the existing Apple TV product). There have been lots of rumors of Apple releasing an LCD (Apple Insider got word it'll be a 55-inch for approximately $2000), and even some speculation as to what it could look like.


One analyst (who is also obviously saying this for attention) went so far as to say "Don't Buy a TV, Apple Is Working on Something Big" and that it's "the biggest thing in consumer electronics since the smartphone came up" on CNBC recently.


So... I had a few questions in case anyone has thoughts they could share on this:


1. Is there really an opportunity for Apple to come in and do something radically new or different in the TV space? Could Apple really grab market share (or, hell, even dominate) as it has in the mobile and tablet spaces?


2. What do you think Apple's iTV could really do to differentiate it from the others? Steve Jobs said he "cracked it" -- meaning, he knew how to make a TV that adds substantial new value. What could that be?


3. Would you have any interest in it? Obviously, bang for your buck, it's not going to compete -- but in terms of all the other things Apple does well, would you have any interest in a TV from Apple?


4. What would it take for you to buy one?


I appreciate any thoughts on this - I'm just as stumped and curious about it as many folks.



Yes, Apple can do anything they want and do it the right way unlike Panasonic, Sony, or Samsung! I would buy that TV!
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post #107 of 169 Old 07-08-2012, 12:43 AM
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Yeah everything Apple made was a winner- NOT.
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post #108 of 169 Old 07-09-2012, 02:08 PM
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i really hope apple emphasizes content over tech. if we could pick and choose our viewing material instead of having to buy these elaborate packages,
that would be a game changer. ala itunes.

neflixis our nemesis
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post #109 of 169 Old 07-10-2012, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

i really hope apple emphasizes content over tech. if we could pick and choose our viewing material instead of having to buy these elaborate packages,
that would be a game changer. ala itunes.

There are a lot of business reasons -- some good, some not -- why this isn't going to happen anytime soon. I'd like it in theory for the same reasons you would, but the second-order effects would be fewer channels, most of which would cost a lot of money each. There will need to be a different way to break the existing model than just channel a la carte, which doesn't really work.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #110 of 169 Old 07-11-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Fatawan View Post


Originally Posted by zrockstar

Think APPS. no one thought the iPhone was too revolutionary until they realized what app developers could create and do with the device. With apps and iOS the possibilities of what your tv can become and do our endless! Gaming, video, music, computing, etc. And with Siri, even better. "Siri, record all the Seinfeld episodes and any soccer game that comes on this weekend" oh yeah, and your DVR is in apples iCloud so you an watch anything recorded on any device. That my friends is revolutionary.
Quote:
Not revolutionary at all. Windows media center, Ceton Corp, my phone--i can do any of this now without giving one thin dime to Steve Jobs corpse.

No, you can't.
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post #111 of 169 Old 07-11-2012, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

There are a lot of business reasons -- some good, some not -- why this isn't going to happen anytime soon. I'd like it in theory for the same reasons you would, but the second-order effects would be fewer channels, most of which would cost a lot of money each. There will need to be a different way to break the existing model than just channel a la carte, which doesn't really work.


perhaps the existing subscription models for content providers is breaking down.

dish no longer carries amc and now direct is losing all the viacom channels.

we hopefully may be moving to a pick and choose system.

neflixis our nemesis
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post #112 of 169 Old 07-11-2012, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

perhaps the existing subscription models for content providers is breaking down.
dish no longer carries amc and now direct is losing all the viacom channels.
we hopefully may be moving to a pick and choose system.

It's beyond the scope of this discussion, in my opinion, but I predict Viacom's channels will all return to DirecTV within days. And while I believe the current system is unsustainable due to double-digit annual price increases, "picking and choosing" actually doesn't fix what's wrong. It would basically eliminate most channels from existence at all since most of them only survive on bundles. At the end of the day, it would leave us with an ESPN that is $20 per month and -- for a lot of reasons -- that might not be sustainable either.

Bottom line, eventually this whole thing does come crashing down. But when it does (a) it won't be pretty (b) we won't end up paying less without getting less (c) a lot of content will disappear (d) Apple is not going to be able to do anything in the short run to topple it. A&E networks were just valued at $19 billion.... That's just for the A&E family of channels... Expect a long, drawn-out demise of the existing business model. The world where you can buy 10 channels for like $2/channel is never going to exist. I know, it intuitively makes sense that it should, but it's never going to.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #113 of 169 Old 07-11-2012, 04:29 PM
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^^^^ that's the reason why I decided years and years ago to never get caught up the pay-tv scam. Sure I've missed a lot of decent to good programming when first aired but not having to pay the long term, ever escalating costs has, IMO, put me way ahead of the game. It helps that we get excellent HD OTA tv where I live and with the multiple streaming options available, we haven't missed much. I like the idea of an Apple HDTV but if they tie it to some sort of subscription model (which I'm sure they will via iTunes) I'd have to think twice about it. I don't have a SmartTV now (don't believe in them) so that may be an option that I could live without depending on the feature set of the tv (panel type, calibration options, etc).
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post #114 of 169 Old 07-11-2012, 05:44 PM
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It wouldn't be the first time Direct and Dish has gotten into all kinds of hassles about contracts. The very first baseball game to be televised by ESPN on HD was the first game Sunday game of the new season at my home park of the Texas Rangers. Dish started fiddling with contract issues. I wrote and gave them until the first day of the week before the game. They didn't fix it and I bolted for Direct! In fact, it took them several weeks before their subscribers were able to watch the Sunday Game on HD.

I used to watch TV with a 10 foot satellite dish back in the 80-90's. One of the providers allowed their subscribers to chose a la cart channels. True, they were not that many, but they were made available. Problem was that they were expensive. Some channels were $7.00 others as high as $10-12mo. Needless to say, that didn't catch on.
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^^^^ that's the reason why I decided years and years ago to never get caught up the pay-tv scam. Sure I've missed a lot of decent to good programming when first aired but not having to pay the long term, ever escalating costs has, IMO, put me way ahead of the game. It helps that we get excellent HD OTA tv where I live and with the multiple streaming options available, we haven't missed much. I like the idea of an Apple HDTV but if they tie it to some sort of subscription model (which I'm sure they will via iTunes) I'd have to think twice about it. I don't have a SmartTV now (don't believe in them) so that may be an option that I could live without depending on the feature set of the tv (panel type, calibration options, etc).

I agree. I've had cable from Charter and Time Warner years ago and then was a 7 year early adopter for DirecTV and then switched to Dish because they provided a free PVR and DirecTV wouldn't after being a loyal customer for all those years. I finally threw in the towel about 4 years ago and now have OTA and some 23 channels since I am in the middle of two TV markets, one in N. Illinois and the other in S. Wisconsin. Besides that, I also picked up an HTPC which cost less than 9 months Dish service and get about all I want form HuLu, NetFlix, etc. I already was paying for internet so no additional cost there.

That said, there IS talk of Free Over The Air TV going away. It seems there are manipulation going on at the FCC and influential rich corporations encouraging the FCC to raise license and other fees to local TV stations and networks so that they will be forced to go to a pay-for-TV type system. In other words, the powers that be will make it so expensive and difficult the networks/local providers would have to succumb to a pay system.mad.gif Isn't that just the way. . . as soon as you introduce profit motive, stock holders, and the influence of those with billions in their pockets they manipulated things to line their pockets with even more filthy lucre while reducing benefits and service to us. Hmmm .. . kind of sounds like what happened when not for profit health insurance got forced into the FOR profit HMO business model. frown.gif
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post #116 of 169 Old 07-12-2012, 08:32 PM
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^^^^ We have a pretty active and solid OTA market here in the Bay Area and that subject (OTA going away or at least becoming some sort of a pay service) has been brought up before. However, I do believe that it is still quite a few years off before that happens because they are still upgrading and adding stations to one of the main towers. I would think that they wouldn't be doing that if their ROI wasn't projected out for 5 - 10 years. But yeah, I do think it is an inevitability. Hopefully by that time something else will come along that won't screw the populace.
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post #117 of 169 Old 07-12-2012, 10:40 PM
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You would not know OTA is going away in Houston when scanning the channels there are at least double the amount 10yrs ago.
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post #118 of 169 Old 07-13-2012, 10:37 AM
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^^^^ which is a good sign for us OTAers tongue.gif
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post #119 of 169 Old 07-13-2012, 01:37 PM
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The new Aereo service avoided an injunction in its first round in court. If it ends up winning at all and proving itself legal, OTA TV is basically dead as the broadcast networks will take all their best content off the air. The value of retransmission consent already exists the infinitesimal advertising value of cheapskates who don't have cable. Aereo's copyright end run -- which I believe is illegal for a lot of reasons and I'm surprised the judge didn't grant an injunction or at least say, "You can offer this service, just negotiate a retransmission agreement like every cable system does." -- has the potential to kill OTA for good.

The strange side benefit of killing OTA is that it would free up billions upon billions in spectrum that can be used for mobile data and is low-frequency, high-penetration spectrum. Anyway, we're off topic, but I bring this up to further illustrate the Law of Unintended Consequences.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #120 of 169 Old 07-13-2012, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

The new Aereo service avoided an injunction in its first round in court. If it ends up winning at all and proving itself legal, OTA TV is basically dead as the broadcast networks will take all their best content off the air. The value of retransmission consent already exists the infinitesimal advertising value of cheapskates who don't have cable. Aereo's copyright end run -- which I believe is illegal for a lot of reasons and I'm surprised the judge didn't grant an injunction or at least say, "You can offer this service, just negotiate a retransmission agreement like every cable system does." -- has the potential to kill OTA for good.
The strange side benefit of killing OTA is that it would free up billions upon billions in spectrum that can be used for mobile data and is low-frequency, high-penetration spectrum. Anyway, we're off topic, but I bring this up to further illustrate the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Yeah, I too have been following the Aereo story but I don't think it will fly in the end. BTW, did I correctly infer that those of us who don't have cable or satellite are "cheapskates"? Or was that just a misunderstanding on my part?
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