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post #271 of 292 Old 10-06-2012, 09:51 PM
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I was curious, did a bit of research and found this article:

http://*******************.com/plasmatv/plasmatv-altitude.html

Apparently the issue is noise not picture quality. Living in the Chicago area we're about 680 ft elevation, so no corcern here. Apparently this is a thoetical limit for plasmas which tops out around 6500 feet. No, I didn't know that, tongue.gif
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post #272 of 292 Old 10-06-2012, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkacz View Post

If retailers would apply some standard calibration across the board I can't help but think that manufacturers would be forced to produce better panels and buyers would be happier with their purchases.
As it is, I literally cannot believe my eyes when comparing sets side by side in any but the highest end boutique (and even then?).

That's why I have always suggested that a buyer should get the remote in hand and make the adjustments to get the best possible picture and then proceed with evaluation. If a store won't let me have the remote then I walk out the door and find a store that will. Have never been refused yet. smile.gif
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post #273 of 292 Old 10-07-2012, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -MARTY54- View Post

LCD sells itself because people are generally ill-informed. The fact that LED is unquestionably more expensive (apples for apples) as a comparison with Plasma, it leads people to the conclusion that - it's more expensive, so surely it must be better, right?? Like it or not, this is how most peoples brains are hard wired... we all know that this simply is not true.
It sounds like you're a little frustrated at feeling the need to protect your chosen panel type and your supporting words are not great. Why not be happy with what you have? You'll always have those more logical minds choosing the cheaper, better looking panel (unless the sun is beaming in your lounge room??), which is the Plasma. I also find it interesting to see so many buy LED, most with silly reasons, none of which relate to the actual viewing quality of the panel. Perhaps this is why Plasma fans venture over to the LED forum... they really don't understand. To be honest I'm in this camp.
Having both plasma and local dimming LCD I can see the difference! Just read the other post on this forum,plasma has limits on altitude,burn in,did you read them? Stick your head in the sand and go back to the plasma forum! By the way did you look at LIGHT ILLUSION'S post? NOW YOU KNOW WHY PLASMA IS DYING! IS THAT SUPPORT ENOUGH? I don't have to protect my chosen panel, other honest people on this forum have!
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post #274 of 292 Old 10-07-2012, 09:01 AM
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My two cents:
1) Having owned a Panasonic plasma I can attest to the screen burn issue. My wife who's home all day watches a lot of Blu-ray and DVR recorded movies and constantly hits the pause button. When you press pause on Dish Network while watching live or DVR video, a white horizontal bar appears on the bottom of the screent to tell you it's in pause mode and how far into the movie you are when paused. She leaves it on pause for sometimes many hours while she goes shoppping, etc. Well, after many months of leaving it on the screen, it burned an image of the pause bar on the screen.

But wait! It's not over!

I called Panasonic tech support and they said that if she quits leaving the pause on for a long time (he didn't define what is a long time) the image will eventually clear and it will be back to normal. I trained her not to use the pause, but if she had to she should turn off the TV.

Well, guess what? After about 2 months, the burned (not burnt) in image completely disappeared! At least I know it will "heal" itself, so the Panasonic gets another star from me.


2) I guess most people don't know how an LCD and Plasma panel works. Having read through (not thru) some of the posts, nobody had mentioned the basic differences in the two technologies. You can think of an LCD panel analogy as having the sun in a window shine through and you are trying to block it with a blind. You can be successful blocking most of the light, but some will always come through (not thru). LCD panels operate similar way. The panel has either an edge lit light source or a back lit by LEDs light source. The job of the LCD grid is to block a portion of the screen where the image should be black. The problem in LCD design, is you can almost never block the light source behind the LCD grid completely if an adjacent pixel is on. Some light will bleed through (not thru) to the pixel from the neighboring pixel that's on to the black pixel that's supposed to be off.

Now for how a plasma panel works. Simply it's very similar technology to the old style picture tube in addition to a layer of gas between the phosphor and the viewer. Each of the three colors, RGB are "lit" when the intersection of the pixel is energized. When it's not energized, it's completely off, thus appearing black. Just think of a light bulb with a red or green or blue filter in front of it. You only see the pixel when the light bulb is turned on. The obvious benefit of this is that when a pixel is off, it's black since there is no light coming from the bulb, or in a plasma screen, from the phosphor pixel. There are some tradeoffs, such as the time it takes the phosphor to completely de-energize (off) and become black.

Here is a great scientific explanation of how the plasma panel works: http://www.plasmatvscience.org/theinnerworkings.html

The conclusion is, as someone before said, which poison is preferable? IMHO the plasma wins hands down in all counts. Basically the LCD technology has the light blocked in the pixel off position, and the plasma technology has the pixel completely turned off when not needed.
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post #275 of 292 Old 10-07-2012, 09:56 AM
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I bet you can guess what it is for me! Panasonic. I've still got a panny GT50 42" I didn't know the gt50 came in 60" in the US.



Steve

Panasonic TX-P65VT50B ISF Calibrated Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX6090 Samsung LCD LE37A456C Virgin Media V+ HD LG BD-T120EB Panasonic DMP-BDT500 Foxsat-HDR/1TB
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post #276 of 292 Old 10-07-2012, 10:09 AM
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here's what i've got Panasonic TX-P65VT50B ISF Calibrated Pioneer Kuro PDP-LX6090 Samsung LCD LE37A456C Virgin Media V+ HD LG BD-T120EB Panasonic DMP-BDT500 Foxsat-HDR/1TB

I would recommend the panny ST, GT or VT

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post #277 of 292 Old 10-07-2012, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6athome View Post

I don't know about anyone eles,but I find it funny that the plasma gang goes cruising on the LCD forum

What's funny about someone posting a thread about LCD vs Plasma and then getting responses about that topic? If it's posted in the LCD section does that means it should be filled with only pro-LCD comments? The pros and cons to each technology are well know facts, there's no need to defend your chosen TV like it's some kind of religion.
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post #278 of 292 Old 10-07-2012, 09:13 PM
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I agree it is kind of silly. I just counted just for the heck of it... between tv sets and various computer monitors, tablets, cell phones we have 14 devices and they'e a mixture of plasma and LCD/LED. I like them all. Heck I still have a 30 inch CRT tv that works fine, smile.gif
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post #279 of 292 Old 10-08-2012, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATC7 View Post

Nice TV the ES8000, I've only seen it in stores and at a friend's but objectively speaking there's no way it beats the 2012 Panasonic Plasmas. An edge-lit LCD (ES8000) cannot beat a good plasma in terms of colour accuracy, contrast and black levels, not to mention uniformity and off-axis viewing. The only thing that comes close to matching this year's Pannys are full-array LED/LCDs with local dimming; i.e. The Elite, and even then the Elite was beaten overall by the VT50 in this year's VE shootout. If you look at the shootout (link), which included the ES8000, most the top scorers in Black Levels, Contrast Ratio, Colour Accuracy and Sharpness went to plasmas (VT50 and E8000) and the Elite beat the VT50 by a hair in black levels and contrast but still lost overall. The ES8000 wasn't even close if you look at the results towards the end (box) from the link above. Believe me, there are many drawbacks to plasmas but overall-PQ isn't one of them.



I initially purchased the Samsung 55" ES7500 which is quite similar to the ES8000 for $3500 australian dollars. I was extremely disappointed with the picture quality. I could see plenty of ghosting, colour accuracy was all off, contrast and black levels we're also very poor. The only thing it seemed to do was light up the room with it's brightness, seemed fairly light as well as being quiet and not wasting much energy.

I quickly switched the Samsung 55" ES7500 for the Panasonic 50" ST50 after asking more people's opinions and thoughts on what is the best TV for gaming and general program viewing. I have only owned LED/LCD's in the past
and never a plasma so i didn't really research plasmas in the pursuit of the perfect tv for me initially. I then paid $1400 for the 50" ST50 which is $2000 bucks cheaper than i did for the 55" ES7500. When i first turned the TV on
i was amazed by the picture i mean WOW talk about awesome PQ and i haven't even calibrated the picture. Once i did calibrate using D-Nice's slide's and settings the PQ truly started to amaze.

In comparison the ST50 has fantastic black levels and contrast, there is no ghosting when i'm playing games, colour accuracy is WAY better than the ES7500 can't compete. The picture is just sharp and it's not overbearingly bright like a LED/LCD can be with a completely inaccurate picture.

The only thing is the Plasma has slight buzzing, is heavier than a LED/LCD, uses more power and has a tendency for Image Retention and possible Burn-In.

But i don't see any of these things being an issue as you don't leave the pause menu of a game on for any considerable amount of time or any other menu you should be fine.

I'm extremely happy with my purchase i saved 2 grand! and have a TV which mops the floor with LED/LCD's. My xbox 360 games have never looked better!

IMO f you want a bright screen buy a LED/LCD if you want PQ go for a plasma.

Once i buy myself a Darbee Vision i hope to be more amazed biggrin.gif

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post #280 of 292 Old 10-08-2012, 10:30 AM
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PANASONIC TC-P60S30 (2011 plasma model)

Bought a DEMO at my local Costco a week after the 2012 Superbowl (around feb 12th). I was confident with my purchase there.

In the store I'm pretty sure it was set on the brightest setting, or "vivid" or "torch" mode as you like...I verified in the service menu to see there was between 1500 to 2000 hours on it.

It took about FOUR MONTHS before the Costco logo, from their in store demo video, in the lower right corner to disappear completely smile.gif

I'm always in cinema mode, tweaked a little bit.

I.LOVE.IT.

Viewing angle, colors, SIZE...for under 1000$ last February here in Quebec it was not bad....it's still not bad for a 60" !
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post #281 of 292 Old 10-08-2012, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuiBou View Post

PANASONIC TC-P60S30 (2011 plasma model)
Bought a DEMO at my local Costco a week after the 2012 Superbowl (around feb 12th). I was confident with my purchase there.
In the store I'm pretty sure it was set on the brightest setting, or "vivid" or "torch" mode as you like...I verified in the service menu to see there was between 1500 to 2000 hours on it.
It took about FOUR MONTHS before the Costco logo, from their in store demo video, in the lower right corner to disappear completely smile.gif
I'm always in cinema mode, tweaked a little bit.
I.LOVE.IT.
Viewing angle, colors, SIZE...for under 1000$ last February here in Quebec it was not bad....it's still not bad for a 60" !

But it did disappear eventually! I honestly would not have expected this on a set in torch mode for 1500-2000 hours.

Steve S.
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post #282 of 292 Old 10-08-2012, 11:28 AM
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Yeah, in this particular case, it took a lot of patience...

But I was the only one in the house worried about that, since we could not notice it very often with regular TV programs or movies. I did the test once in a while with "unique colored" pictures (JPEG)...and I noticed that every time I did this, it was always a bit less visible than the last time. It was almost 100% satisfying for me after the Costco's 90 days exchange return policy.

I should do the test again now smile.gif

EDIT : Doing color slides right now, in vivid mode. I can see the 4:3 image a bit different (darker) in my 16:9 image, left and right. It usually fade away too. A lot of TV channel on my DVR are still not HD and still 4:3. I don't care messing with the zoom function...

I can see some darker spots about right where the channel logos are...but I can't guess which ones...it's very faint. Not a problem for me. It's a little worse when it's completely green.

(excuse my English if sometimes it doesn't make any sense, je parle français...)
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post #283 of 292 Old 10-08-2012, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATC7 View Post

Full array LED with local dimming is significantly more expensive to produce and only a handful of (high priced) models exist. Sharp is a major player with their Elite line, of course the Sony HX929 is another. The Sharp series 945 (Full Array with local dimming) in both 60" and 70" are still slotted for a summer 2012 release; I'm guessing we should see them by August. Who knows about the price though.
Also the LG LH90 series. Full LED with Local Dimming, THX certified and a matte screen. The LG flagship in 2009 and I have a 47" for sale thats in perfect condition.

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post #284 of 292 Old 10-11-2012, 08:48 PM
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Hi gentlemen!
First of all, I'm like GuiBou, Je parle français, so sorry for my english!
Here's my story...In the last few months, I had 4 Sony LED tv! Yes, you read it right, 4!!
All of them were awful in terms of screen uniformity. The first 3 were EX620 55''. Clouding, banding and flashlighting. The current one is a EX640 55'' wich is supposed to be perfect. But it's not. There's no clouding, but 3 of the 4 corners are having flashlighting. And still a lot of banding...(Banding is when the camera pans, you see a line, 5-6 in my case, that look ''dirty'') So I'm looking for a plasma. I'm thinking about the Samsung E550 60''. I'va been trough the 13 pages of the forum and I think my choice is made, but still have a few concerns...
-How is the screen uniformity with a plasma (I know it's the LCD backlight that cause deffect, but I'm asking anyway, I'm looking for a perfect or close screen uniformity)
-IR...I'm a little PS3 gamer (4-5 hours a week, mostly on weekend) Do I have to worry? I'm watching a lot of news, like your CNN (but here it's RDI wink.gif and a lot of ''normal'' program with a logo in the right corner...I'm scared of burn-in!
-Does it NEED break-in? It will be the ''principal'' television, and I don't want to not be able to watch it for 150 hours!
As you guys said, I think I'm ''hardcore''! I want my set not to be perfect, but close to it, and I think plasma is the answer (and it's bigger, cheaper and 3D! cool.gif ) Am I going to make a good choice? I would appreciate a quick answer, as I'm going to buy it like tomorrow (Friday,October 12, 2012) or Saturday!
Thank you guys for taking the time to read it (and maybe answer it!)

Jonathan
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post #285 of 292 Old 10-11-2012, 09:41 PM
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Panasonic plasmas I vote for (ST,GT,or VT)
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post #286 of 292 Old 10-11-2012, 10:27 PM
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Yeah but I heard that there is more IR on Panasonic than on Samsung, the reason why I'm looking for a Samsung! And the Panasonic ST,GT or VT does'nt fit my budget, another reason lookin' for a Samsung! But thanks for the fast reply!
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post #287 of 292 Old 10-12-2012, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoQc View Post

Hi gentlemen!
First of all, I'm like GuiBou, Je parle français, so sorry for my english!
Here's my story...In the last few months, I had 4 Sony LED tv! Yes, you read it right, 4!!
All of them were awful in terms of screen uniformity. The first 3 were EX620 55''. Clouding, banding and flashlighting. The current one is a EX640 55'' wich is supposed to be perfect. But it's not. There's no clouding, but 3 of the 4 corners are having flashlighting. And still a lot of banding...(Banding is when the camera pans, you see a line, 5-6 in my case, that look ''dirty'') So I'm looking for a plasma. I'm thinking about the Samsung E550 60''. I'va been trough the 13 pages of the forum and I think my choice is made, but still have a few concerns...
-How is the screen uniformity with a plasma (I know it's the LCD backlight that cause deffect, but I'm asking anyway, I'm looking for a perfect or close screen uniformity)
-IR...I'm a little PS3 gamer (4-5 hours a week, mostly on weekend) Do I have to worry? I'm watching a lot of news, like your CNN (but here it's RDI wink.gif and a lot of ''normal'' program with a logo in the right corner...I'm scared of burn-in!
-Does it NEED break-in? It will be the ''principal'' television, and I don't want to not be able to watch it for 150 hours!
As you guys said, I think I'm ''hardcore''! I want my set not to be perfect, but close to it, and I think plasma is the answer (and it's bigger, cheaper and 3D! cool.gif ) Am I going to make a good choice? I would appreciate a quick answer, as I'm going to buy it like tomorrow (Friday,October 12, 2012) or Saturday!
Thank you guys for taking the time to read it (and maybe answer it!)

Jonathan

1. Screen uniformity is an issue you will rarely see on a Plasma unless it's a defective set. All 4 plasmas I've owned (all Panasonic) had zero uniformity issues. I would think it's the same with a Samsung Plasma but I can't be 100% sure as I don't know much about Samsung Plasmas.

2. Even on my 60GT50 that I had, I played a lot of PS3 (well a lot for me, 1-2 hours per day) and had nil-to-very-minor IR, the minor IR that I did see went away almost as soon as I played something else. If the Samsungs truly are less susceptible to IR than the Pannys then I think this will be a non-issue for you. It was a non-issue for me.

3. Almost everyone here will tell you not to bother with breaking-in a plasma if you're doing it for the sole purpose of reducing the chances of IR/BI, and certainly the need for it has diminished over the years. However, the phosphors on a plasma go through a pretty drastic reduction in brightness in the first few hundred hours so the chances of permanent BI happening in the that time is high(er), which is why so many here run slides, vary content and avoid static and lengthy gaming sessions during that time and IMO I think it's a good idea to do that with any plasma.
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post #288 of 292 Old 10-12-2012, 08:43 AM
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Thanks for the fast answer! I think my choice is made. I read a few others forum last night and ''specialist'' reviews, and it seems that for someone like me, who's looking for an almost perfect screen, plasma is the answer!
Thanks again!
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post #289 of 292 Old 12-24-2012, 09:27 AM
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I agree plasma has the edge over LCD in these area's however, I think within the next couple of years or so plasma will be superseded by technologies that are now emerging. This is the history of technology itself, for the moment plasma.
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post #290 of 292 Old 12-24-2012, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elcid123 View Post

I agree plasma has the edge over LCD in these area's however, I think within the next couple of years or so plasma will be superseded by technologies that are now emerging. This is the history of technology itself, for the moment plasma.
I wish I could agree with you buy I do not. Emerging technologies will be very slow in becoming readily available at a consumer friendly price. What we will see is a continuation of the current steady quality decline of the LCD technology and the fading away of the plasma technology. This leaves the consumer with a very poor choice in top quality video. LED back lit local dimming is becoming a too costly feature. The profits are in edge-lit and telling the masses that this is what they need. I think we'll be in a 5 to 7 year limbo of edge lit LCD technology with the manufactures having little or no incentive to increase PQ. Maybe by 2020 OLED will up the ante but it may be longer than that. As long as LCD continues to serve it's master there will be little reason to kill the golden goose.
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post #291 of 292 Old 12-24-2012, 12:41 PM
 
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I'm more inclined to agree with your forecast, but do you really see OLED being delayed for 6 more years? Are the roadblocks really that insurmountable? We even have a few model #s of a 55" OLED set for heaven's sake.
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post #292 of 292 Old 12-29-2013, 10:33 AM
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So I'm way late to this party. OLED screens in decent sizes are going to take a while to be affordable to the general consumer.

I just wanted to add that the many people saying the Samsung sets have poor color accuracy and using this as a reason to buy something else need to take a deep look into the settings. I'm an ISF calibrator, and at the very least the es6500 models have adjustments that make it a calibrators dream. Completely adjustable color decoder can be set to reproduce colors perfectly. Combine that with 10 point white balance and you can get a wonderful picture. The only problem is the brightness and contrast adjustments are not centered well. Contrast isnt too bad but brightness defaults at 100 instead of 50. Leaves adjustment resolution near the optimal setting to only 10 or so clicks instead of 100. Finer adjustments are really needed.

Regards, (for the vast majority of people :-p)

Steve
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