Help with 65" LED Selection - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 07-26-2012, 01:27 AM - Thread Starter
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I need help from educated people that have expertise in the area of LED Large screen TV’s. I really have two TV’s that I am looking at. I had about four but have narrowed this down to two.

All reviews on both of my models below say this is true of each. I have talked to several that have these models that they say it is not an issue. Are the people reviewing these using a magnify glass and are so technical that our eyes will not see this issues. I just want an honest opinion here.

What I am wanting:

Main need is picture quality (that means less banding, color uniformity issues, bleeding, shadowing)
Screen Size : 65’ (could go larger not smaller)
Type: LED (no plasma too bright in the viewing room and too dark of screen. No burn in possibilities if I do not buy period.
Refresh: 240 hz

Here are my two

1 Sony KDL65HX729

They are saying that this one has dealt with the uniformity issue but has shadowing. They do have the local dimmer along with edge lit backlight to help with uniformity.

2 Samsung UN65D8000

I guess the biggest issue with this one is color uniformity issues they say in the review it is a fabulous TV, then turn around and say it has color uniformity issues. It’s like you are even more confused now.
Not that BB is a great place to start but they do list these as the Magnolia series so I am guessing they are the top that BB has to offer. Just wanted to deal with the negatives on each and weight your thoughts.

I have surround sound speakers with a mid line receiver so sound issue will not be a problem. What are your takes on the two sets?

Uses %’s
Sports, TV shows 75
Playstation 3 20
Movies 5

Any recommendations on these two would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 28 Old 07-26-2012, 11:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Are these models not liked LOL. No responses? There has got to be someone on here with an opinion.
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post #3 of 28 Old 07-27-2012, 10:45 AM
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Well, both are discontinued 2011 models for starters. Both are edge lit leds, subject to flashllighting/clouding. Your best bet for pq and screen uniformity would be a plasma which you've already rejected.



Among leds currently available your best choices for screen uniformity and pq would be the Sharp Pro Elite or Sony 929, both of which are pretty pricey but are full-array local dimming backlit sets.

Steve S.
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post #4 of 28 Old 07-27-2012, 10:57 AM
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post #5 of 28 Old 07-27-2012, 12:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Well, both are discontinued 2011 models for starters. Both are edge lit leds, subject to flashllighting/clouding.
Yuck, it's like choosing between 2 sandwiches filled with 2 different kinds of defecation. Sorry for the crass analogy. tongue.gif
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post #6 of 28 Old 07-27-2012, 02:23 PM
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CR, outtake on the Samsung UN55D8000 (smaller panel, but same series:
Quote:
Though picture quality was judged very good, it was not without flaws. Notable non-uniformity of brightness from the LCD created large illuminated areas of the screen... most visible on dark scenes, but noticeable in some brighter scenes as well. Activating the local dimming feature helped but did not eliminate its visibility. As a result, black levels were only fair.

A noise reduction feature .... could not be turned off. While effective, this also reduced subtle image texture, and eliminated natural film grain from film content, reducing image fidelity.

Turning on the Auto Motion Plus feature effectively reduced motion blur, but it also created a brightness flickering effect that was visible on some dark scenes. We saw it mostly on the black bars of letterboxed movie. We turned the feature off.

The set has a narrow viewing angle -- we saw significant deterioration in color, contrast or brightness when viewing the screen off-angle.

As noted, they scored the HD PQ as "Very Good" - NOT "Excellent" - and overall rating was only 63 (although that does include factors beyond PQ), whereas the top set in that size category earns a 79. Since many people think CR's reviews are too superficial - primarily by failing to draw enough distinction between different models - it cannot be good news when a set is ranked that low.


Although still plagued by off-angle viewing issues, the newer Samsung UN55ES8000 scores appreciably higher - obtaining an overall score of "74," even though HD PQ is still rated only "Very Good." (Apparently other factors raised its rating above that of the D8000, although the only obvious one was an improvement to a "Moderate" viewing angle, as against the "Narrow" angle for the D.)

Tough choice with edge-lit panels. A good old fashioned Back-Lit CCFL probably provides better uniformity, although admittedly they are not as "Sexy."

Still, upon re-reading your post, it looks like very little viewing time will be devoted to movies, and, in a Bright Room, Contrast Ratios go out the window - as long as YOU can stay in the Sweet Spot, and make everyone else suffer the consequences of off-angle viewing..... wink.gif
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post #7 of 28 Old 07-27-2012, 07:21 PM
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Who or what is CR ??? A review site of some sort?
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post #8 of 28 Old 07-27-2012, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

Who or what is CR ??? A review site of some sort?

Oops - apologies: Consumer Reports.

Note that the reviews on their website are considerably more detailed than the simple rating charts that show up in the magazine.
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post #9 of 28 Old 07-28-2012, 11:32 AM
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No need to apologize, I did cut in without posting any helpful info after all biggrin.gif.

I may be a little late to the game with this as the poll has closed so i'm guessing you may have already made a purchase but here goes:
I'd go with the Sony over the Samsung you posted as even though the Samsung is a higher end model there we're some serious problems with it for some people from what i've heard.

A good alternative to the hx729 that has good expert reviews is the hx850 (decent 3d performance, max might be 60"?) which is a very good edge lit. If you can find an hx929 for around the same price definetly go for it over the edge lit as i'm not sure you can get the edgelit in 65" .

Samsungs es8000 from this year may not be a better buy than the d8000 from last year: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-un55es8000/4505-6482_7-35118272.html
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-un55d8000/4505-6482_7-34503721.html
You could also look into lower end models without sacrificing much but you might lose local dimming on anything lower than the es7100 and d8000, 3d and picture quality on the eh6000 and you'd have to find them in the size your looking for (es7100? es6500, eh6000.
Samsung also appears to have the best 3d performance in 2012 for led lcds.

The current Samsungs seem to have less dynamic dimming issues but also lighter blacks as seen in this review of the eh6000: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-un46eh6000/4505-6482_7-35159621.html and the review of the es8000.

You could also look into sharp for a big screen but I don't know much about them other than their full array sets start at 70" they're dirt cheap, have matte screens for good bright room performance and black levels are probably on par with this years Samsungs with lesser uniformity on sharps edge lits (and there is a big difference between the elite and regular sharps with the elite being the best lcd ever made).

Summing up, quality is all over the map for edge lit leds and the only company that seems to be able to put out a decent edge lit with deep blacks, no dynamic contrast issues, and good uniformity is Sony and plasmas in this price range (or even lower) do beat them for picture quality.
All of the sony's and Samsung's ive listed have glossy screens as far as i'm aware of and may not actually do much better than a plasma with a good anti reflective filter like the st50 or pne6500 in a bright room.

EDIT: I guess the poll didn't close, i just wasn't logged in biggrin.gif
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post #10 of 28 Old 07-28-2012, 07:59 PM
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There is no current 65" LED LCD for sale from anyone.

The comments about the Sharp Elite are right, "if you can afford it, it's great".

Otherwise, you are best served limiting your choices to:

a) a 65" plasma or
b) a 60" LED LCD

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #11 of 28 Old 07-29-2012, 07:19 AM
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That's weird they list the es8000 and eh6000 as having 65" variants on cnet.
The hx929 is technically current but it's hardly a good value when compared to the Plasmas.
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post #12 of 28 Old 07-29-2012, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

There is no current 65" LED LCD for sale from anyone.
LG 65LM6200? I got it at the end of May and have been enjoying it a lot. The Elite though, wow, if you can afford it it's stellar.
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post #13 of 28 Old 07-29-2012, 12:13 PM
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Alot of Lg's are pretty average for the money spent, most do well with color and they are the only ones pushing ghost free passive 3d in the low end. In this case lg probably has one of the best options for the situation, the 2011 lw6500 is a very good all around performer, it is apparently identical to the lw5600 other than the 65" available screen size, it has a matte screen for good bright room performance, great color accuracy, relatively deep black levels (unusual for lg) and good screen uniformity. The only other matte screen led lcds i have found are the ex720 from Sony and Sharp's non elite led lcds which both score lower than the lg in specific areas. 2011 models like the lg should still be available and it looks like your best option smile.gif
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post #14 of 28 Old 07-29-2012, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

That's weird they list the es8000 and eh6000 as having 65" variants on cnet.
The hx929 is technically current but it's hardly a good value when compared to the Plasmas.

Mik, those Samsungs do not exist. They might someday, but they do not exist currently. And technically the HX929 is a 2011 model. It's only "current" because they failed to develop a replacement model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by THe_Flash View Post

LG 65LM6200? I got it at the end of May and have been enjoying it a lot. The Elite though, wow, if you can afford it it's stellar.

Is that actually a 2012 model? Maybe I was mistaken?

Regardless, the specs are >very< middle of the road of that set.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #15 of 28 Old 07-29-2012, 03:44 PM
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Yes, it's a 2012 model. It's the successor to the 65LW6500. I was disappointed with the specs initially as well, but my eyes have the final say and I am pretty pleased.
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post #16 of 28 Old 07-30-2012, 09:13 AM
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Has the lm6200 been reviewed yet? Alot of the 2012 lg's didn't get sparkling reviews which is why i reccomended trying to find the older model. Same anti reflective screen though right?
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post #17 of 28 Old 07-30-2012, 09:41 AM
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I haven't seen the 65" LM6200, but the 65" LW6500 was not matte. It had a very glossy panel, and really bad uniformity to boot.

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post #18 of 28 Old 07-30-2012, 12:01 PM
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Correct, the 65LM6200 has a highly reflective screen. It is probably my largest complaint with the set.
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post #19 of 28 Old 07-30-2012, 03:38 PM
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http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1301662476 the lw6500 has a matte screen and good uniformity for an edge lit.
The lm6200 might be similar but I wouldn't take the chance if you can find a good deal on the lw6500, the only thing the lw6500 doesn't have is the scanning backlight which improves motion resolution at the cost of flicker and brightness
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post #20 of 28 Old 07-30-2012, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1301662476 the lw6500 has a matte screen and good uniformity for an edge lit.
The lm6200 might be similar but I wouldn't take the chance if you can find a good deal on the lw6500, the only thing the lw6500 doesn't have is the scanning backlight which improves motion resolution at the cost of flicker and brightness
Last years 6500 most certainly did not have a matte screen.
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post #21 of 28 Old 07-30-2012, 06:14 PM
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I don't know what to tell ya man biggrin.gif Check out the review and scroll down to the section where they talk about display performance.
Is there an lv6500? Cause I know they use the lv designation as well as the lw designation, I'm referring to the LW6500.
LW6500 review: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1301662476

EDIT: Look for this in the review :
"Picture quality on LG LW6500
In this section I go through picture quality with the calibrated settings.

LG LW6500 has a matte screen and therefore reflections from windows and lamps is not a big issue. The glossy bezel, however, has some reflections."

They also mention it again when they discuss black levels.
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post #22 of 28 Old 07-30-2012, 06:20 PM
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I found it while reading a review of the lw5600 which also has a matte screen. I tried to find a 65" version of the lw5600 and that's when I found the 65" lw6500 on cnet. When I loaded the page for it I got the usual "we didn't review this model but we did review the lw5600 which is nearly identical other than a 240hz refresh rate" seen here: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/lg-infinia-65lw6500/4505-6482_7-34468410.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody;1r

Here's the review of the extremely similar lw5600 which scored higher on cnet than any of lg's 2012 models: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/lg-infinia-47lw5600/4505-6482_7-34468431.html
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post #23 of 28 Old 08-01-2012, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Well, both are discontinued 2011 models for starters. Both are edge lit leds, subject to flashllighting/clouding. Your best bet for pq and screen uniformity would be a plasma which you've already rejected.

I don't know about the Samsung, but the KDL-65HX729 is listed on Sony's website as a current model.

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post #24 of 28 Old 08-01-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

If you can afford it................
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sharp-elite-pro-70x5fd/4505-6482_7-35004014.html

LOL. Oh, sure. Let's go from a $2500 TV to one that is $7500.

Next. smile.gif

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post #25 of 28 Old 08-01-2012, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THe_Flash View Post

Yes, it's a 2012 model. It's the successor to the 65LW6500. I was disappointed with the specs initially as well, but my eyes have the final say and I am pretty pleased.

Thanks Flash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2000 View Post

I don't know about the Samsung, but the KDL-65HX729 is listed on Sony's website as a current model.
Michael

It most certainly is not. It's a 2011 carry-over model, it wasn't very state-of-the-art when new, it doesn't even have the best of Sony's edge-lit technology (see sets like the HX850), and I doubt it's even still currently being produced.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #26 of 28 Old 08-03-2012, 09:36 AM
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Don't be so stringent with reccomendations. If there is a good tv from last year still in stores then it can be considered current whether it is a 2012 model or not. That said the hx850 is certianly a good buy, though maybe slightly above budget.
An nx720 would be a little more within range and if someone were set on a Sony for a bright room they would probably want an ex series for the matte screens (performance is sacrificed on the ex's unfortunately). My reccomendation still stands though lg lw6500 (matte) if you can find it.
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post #27 of 28 Old 08-03-2012, 01:58 PM
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I strongly recommend against an HX729, whether or not you find one in stores. Does that help, Mik?

The 2012 Sony edge-lit sets are so much better than the 2011 edge-lit sets it's not even close in my mind. You do have to give up hope of getting a 65" however, if you go that route.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #28 of 28 Old 08-04-2012, 07:17 AM
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Yes... thats the general idea biggrin.gif
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