8K by 4K or Octo HD - the real SUHDTV technology - Page 28 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #811 of 839 Old 10-07-2015, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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post #812 of 839 Old 10-15-2015, 12:17 AM - Thread Starter
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post #813 of 839 Old 10-22-2015, 11:03 AM
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So I'm not really sold on the need for an 8k TV (although for monitors potentially useful)...I could see it being useful with projectors for sure (although I think OLED will be cheap enough that I'm not positive projectors will gain much traction).

Does anyone wonder how 8k content would be delivered though? I have 150mbps internet, which should be good enough for it...but currently netflix 4k streams are 15mbps. What does it matter the resolution of the TV if you can't get the content providers to actually up the bitrate!

I can't imagine consumers in general will adopt another disc format. I'm glad UHD blu-ray exists...but the writing has been on the wall for a while with regard to discs. Convenience over quality. Without sufficient demand for discs, and content providers being stingy with bandwidth...I'm not sure how this will get off the ground realistically. I'm guessing this is at least 6 years away though so who knows.
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post #814 of 839 Old 10-22-2015, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Resiroth View Post
So I'm not really sold on the need for an 8k TV (although for monitors potentially useful)...I could see it being useful with projectors for sure (although I think OLED will be cheap enough that I'm not positive projectors will gain much traction).

Does anyone wonder how 8k content would be delivered though? I have 150mbps internet, which should be good enough for it...but currently netflix 4k streams are 15mbps. What does it matter the resolution of the TV if you can't get the content providers to actually up the bitrate!

I can't imagine consumers in general will adopt another disc format. I'm glad UHD blu-ray exists...but the writing has been on the wall for a while with regard to discs. Convenience over quality. Without sufficient demand for discs, and content providers being stingy with bandwidth...I'm not sure how this will get off the ground realistically. I'm guessing this is at least 6 years away though so who knows.
people like you are destroying physical media streams are low quality can't replace authentic blu-ray technology
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post #815 of 839 Old 10-23-2015, 05:59 AM
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people like you are destroying physical media streams are low quality can't replace authentic blu-ray technology
^^^^Is there a sentence in that?

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post #816 of 839 Old 10-23-2015, 06:10 AM
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^^^^Is there a sentence in that?
oh I'm sorry for not having perfect grammar or know how to write sentences in the proper sense. did you not understand what I said.

I'm not here to cause an argument
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post #817 of 839 Old 10-23-2015, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by gus738 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resiroth View Post
So I'm not really sold on the need for an 8k TV (although for monitors potentially useful)...I could see it being useful with projectors for sure (although I think OLED will be cheap enough that I'm not positive projectors will gain much traction).

Does anyone wonder how 8k content would be delivered though? I have 150mbps internet, which should be good enough for it...but currently netflix 4k streams are 15mbps. What does it matter the resolution of the TV if you can't get the content providers to actually up the bitrate!

I can't imagine consumers in general will adopt another disc format. I'm glad UHD blu-ray exists...but the writing has been on the wall for a while with regard to discs. Convenience over quality. Without sufficient demand for discs, and content providers being stingy with bandwidth...I'm not sure how this will get off the ground realistically. I'm guessing this is at least 6 years away though so who knows.
people like you are destroying physical media streams are low quality can't replace authentic blu-ray technology
So you took a comment about me lamenting the loss of physical media to streams (see:music, and actually, physical media is arguably already sort of dead to the general public), and saying that since streaming is here to stay regardless of what we do, it's even more unfortunate that they're streaming at such low bit-rates (4K at 25mbit would probably look pretty good).

Somehow this makes me a "hater" of physical media lol. I guess that's half true. I'd rather stream Netflix at 100mbit than clutter up my place with discs that have unskippable piracy warnings and trailers, but I definitely appreciate the quality boost physical media brings, believe me.
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post #818 of 839 Old 03-08-2016, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Octo HD is coming big: Some of the Rio 2016 Olympic Games will be covered in 8K ‘Super Hi-Vision’ (for Japan), and there will be 4K Ultra HD versions created for testing and comparison purposes. The 8K versions for Japan will include ‘immersive’ audio using what Olympic Broadcasting Services (OBS) describe as “3D 22.2 channel audio surround sound”. Some 130 hours (out of a claimed 7,000 hours of actual TV coverage) of 8K Super Hi-Vision will be beamed from Brazil to Japan, including live coverage of the opening and closing ceremonies, as well as Swimming, Judo, Athletics, Basketball and Football. In addition, an ENG camera crew will capture select sports at other venues, “including the Olympic spirit and atmosphere” for re-play later.
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post #819 of 839 Old 03-08-2016, 09:50 AM
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Eh Japan doesn't influence TV tech. anywhere else.

Even when it dominated TV manufacturing, which it no longer is.
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post #820 of 839 Old 03-08-2016, 11:00 AM
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Eh Japan doesn't influence TV tech. anywhere else.

Even when it dominated TV manufacturing, which it no longer is.
NHK were collaborating on 7.68K tests quite a while ago with the BBC. It also modified display(s) for higher frame rate tests for the EBU. NHK's image resolution of 7680x4320 got put into the ITU recommendations and the DVB specs for a planned UHD resolution (now called UHD 3 using that res) where they're projecting it being broadcast around year 2020.

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post #821 of 839 Old 03-08-2016, 11:02 AM
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Well lets see if they even have 4K broadcasts here, let alone 8K.

It could be in the spec. but that doesn't reflect market realities.
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post #822 of 839 Old 01-06-2017, 03:22 AM - Thread Starter
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post #823 of 839 Old 01-06-2017, 09:44 AM
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$5000 monitor?

Yawn, is there a decent video card to drive it?
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post #824 of 839 Old 01-06-2017, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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$5000 monitor? Yawn, is there a decent video card to drive it?
No problem with high-end graphics cards, the monitor is driven @60Hz via two DisplayPort 1.3 connectors. This is the only realistic solution before the DisplayPort 1.4 becomes widely available. For 8K TVs, the HDMI 2.1 standard is ready.
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post #825 of 839 Old 01-06-2017, 01:36 PM
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No problem with high-end graphics cards, the monitor is driven @60Hz via two DisplayPort 1.3 connectors. This is the only realistic solution before the DisplayPort 1.4 becomes widely available. For 8K TVs, the HDMI 2.1 standard is ready.
My understanding is that DP1.4 uses lossy compression, so it wouldn't be appropriate for a professional monitor. Same with HDMI 2.1 - it doesn't have enough bandwidth for lossless 8K.
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post #826 of 839 Old 01-06-2017, 02:18 PM
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post #827 of 839 Old 01-06-2017, 11:53 PM
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https://youtu.be/7_pFGd9yWEU

Really quite amazing.
Quite good but not as good as NHK's - which is approx 8K (7.68K) at twice the frame rate (ie. 120 fps).
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post #828 of 839 Old 01-08-2017, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Luke M View Post
My understanding is that DP1.4 uses lossy compression, so it wouldn't be appropriate for a professional monitor. Same with HDMI 2.1 - it doesn't have enough bandwidth for lossless 8K.
Indeed, for highest requirements, the DP1.4 could not be used though it is #practically lossless#. The official HDMI 2.1 description reads: 48G cables enable up to 48Gbps bandwidth for uncompressed HDMI 2.1 feature support including 8K video with HDR. Sounds it is lossless(?).
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post #829 of 839 Old 01-08-2017, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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post #830 of 839 Old 01-08-2017, 06:25 PM
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8K? Oh my goodness. Why stop there? 16K next.

Starting to get silly now....cmon.

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post #831 of 839 Old 01-08-2017, 06:28 PM
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Well at least one Japanese network is supporting 8K so presumably there's some kind of 8K equipment out there.

So a transition to it is not completely in the realm of the impossible or unlikely.
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post #832 of 839 Old 01-09-2017, 01:32 AM
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Indeed, for highest requirements, the DP1.4 could not be used though it is #practically lossless#. The official HDMI 2.1 description reads: 48G cables enable up to 48Gbps bandwidth for uncompressed HDMI 2.1 feature support including 8K video with HDR. Sounds it is lossless(?).
Well, just going by 48/18=2.6 (may not be exact because of various differences), that's not nearly enough. HDMI 2.0 can do 8-bit RGB 4K @ 60Hz. For a bare bones minimum 8K professional monitor, you need 4x the bandwidth, not 2.6x. Another 2x for 120Hz, and more for >8-bit color.
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post #833 of 839 Old 01-09-2017, 02:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, just going by 48/18=2.6 (may not be exact because of various differences), that's not nearly enough. HDMI 2.0 can do 8-bit RGB 4K @ 60Hz. For a bare bones minimum 8K professional monitor, you need 4x the bandwidth, not 2.6x. Another 2x for 120Hz, and more for >8-bit color.
Indeed, according to the latest info the HDMI 2.1 uses the DSC (Display Stream Compression) 1.2 lossless compression. The DSC is VESA standard and the same which is used in the DisplayPort 1.4. In particular, the DSC 1.2 supports:

Native 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 coding – Eliminates the need to convert pixels into red, green, blue (RGB) components, which allows for direct compression of incoming sub-sampled pixels. This enables more efficient compression (e.g., 2:1 for YCbCr 4:2:0 coding versus 3:1 with RGB conversion), which in turn results in superior image quality for digital TVs, which often utilize YCbCr 4:2:0 coding.

Thus, high-res video can be transmitted natively over the HDMI 2.1 because the 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 bandwidth is less than 4:4:4.

Detailed table shows which formats can be transmitted natively and which with the DSC. For eaxmple, the 4:2:0 8K@60Hz video can be transmitted with no compression. Higher rates require compression which is practically lossless at compression rates 2-4 and surely it is visually lossless and follows from the DSC standard principles.

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post #834 of 839 Old 01-09-2017, 03:14 AM
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Indeed, according to the latest info the HDMI 2.1 uses the DSC (Display Stream Compression) 1.2 lossless compression.
DSC is lossy compression. It's supposedly "visually lossless or very nearly so". Certainly good enough for TVs, but I wouldn't want it for a professional display, would you?
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post #835 of 839 Old 01-09-2017, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
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DSC is lossy compression. It's supposedly "visually lossless or very nearly so". Certainly good enough for TVs, but I wouldn't want it for a professional display, would you?
It depends where such professional display might be used. For example, if it is used for the preparation and evaluation of consumer video then the HDMI 2.1 must be included. Even without HDMI 2.1 present it would have to be simulated.

Overall it seems that the effect of the DSC will be in the order of the difference between the 4:4:4, 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 video, practically invisible. This is due to the extremely clever algorithm used.
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post #836 of 839 Old 01-09-2017, 11:28 AM
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Well, just going by 48/18=2.6 (may not be exact because of various differences), that's not nearly enough. HDMI 2.0 can do 8-bit RGB 4K @ 60Hz. For a bare bones minimum 8K professional monitor, you need 4x the bandwidth, not 2.6x. Another 2x for 120Hz, and more for >8-bit color.
So maybe in an effort to retain that connector, they are using higher clock speeds and cables which can carry higher bandwidth, rather than adding more pins and thus changing the connector.

But 2.1 may still be good enough for the next 4-5 years. Or rather all that we get in consumer gear for a few years.
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Sharp announced release AQUOS 8K LCd in Japan, China, Taiwan, and Europe at IFA.



Sharp LC-70X500 LCd for japanese market.
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post #838 of 839 Old 09-01-2017, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post
The Octo HD will be no-compromise Super Ultra HDTV including not only the 8K by 4K picture but also the 120 Hz frame rate and 10-bit color. With the experimental 8K LCD display demonstrated and now the 8K camera @120 Hz being shown the old 4K will be left in the dust even before it appears.
Yeah, right. Only if we are talking 100" plus screens that you sit 2 feet away from.

Why stop there? Lets just leapfrog right to: Eleventy-Million-Billion-K.

Lets also not forget: Will the technologies that fail with proper black levels get THAT sorted out by then? Hope so. hehehehehehe

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post #839 of 839 Old 09-01-2017, 12:06 PM
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Yeah, right. Only if we are talking 100" plus screens that you sit 2 feet away from.

Why stop there? Lets just leapfrog right to: Eleventy-Million-Billion-K.

Lets also not forget: Will the technologies that fail with proper black levels get THAT sorted out by then? Hope so. hehehehehehe
googleplex-K?
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