8K by 4K or Octo HD - the real SUHDTV technology - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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The Octo HD will be no-compromise Super Ultra HDTV including not only the 8K by 4K picture but also the 120 Hz frame rate and 10-bit color. With the experimental 8K LCD display demonstrated and now the 8K camera @120 Hz being shown the old 4K will be left in the dust even before it appears.
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post #2 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 08:28 AM
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8K for the consumers will not happen for a long, long time. 2025 at the earliest. Absolutely no infrastructure in place to make it happen. 4K will be hard enough to make happen, but at least there is already infrastructure in place. I.E 4K cameras, blu-ray manufacting, ultra high speed internet, Movie Studio masters in 4K. There are exactly 3 full rez 8K cameras in the world right now all own by NHK in Japan.
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post #3 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 09:44 AM
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Actually, I think you will find that 8K is 16× HD (I am unsure on the correct prefix) with its 7680×4320 resolution.
Any Sytech is absolutely correct with his post. 8K is not happening any time soon, let’s wait until 4K OLEDs are beginning to materialise and then be made available at affordable prices first.
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post #4 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 10:28 AM
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It’s probably like the other demos Panasonic have done in the past where it’s really four 4K panels put together in one display rather than a single 8K panel. Whether it is or not, it doesn’t change the fact that it is not happening any time soon.
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post #5 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Actually, I think you will find that 8K is 16× HD (I am unsure on the correct prefix) with its 7680×4320 resolution. Any Sytech is absolutely correct with his post. 8K is not happening any time soon, let’s wait until 4K OLEDs are beginning to materialise and then be made available at affordable prices first.

Japanese seem to be determined to skip the 4K and are moving directly to the 8K. They would also like to save their industry against barbarians making inroads on their shores so it looks they are thinking to speed up introduction of the 8K in Japan.

BTW, 2K is the 1920x1080 HD, 4K is double of that 3840x2160 and the 8K is again double at 7680x4320. The term Octo HD is thus correct.

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post #6 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Panasonic demonstrated a 145inch 8K plasma unit at the recent IFA show.
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1347260638
No word on if it comes with it's own nuclear plant to supply the energy required to run it.wink.gif

They could team up with Sharp (who probably has a lot of solar panels they can't sell right now due to the high yen) and claim it's "green" by offering it with 1 kw of solar. smile.gif

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #7 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

2K is the 1920x1080 HD, 4K is double of that 3840x2160 and the 8K is again double at 7680x4320. The term Octo HD is thus correct.
1920×1080 =   2,073,600 (1×)
3840×2160 =   8,294,400 (4×)
7680×4320 = 33,177,600 (16×)
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post #8 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Japanese seem to be determined to skip the 4K and are moving directly to the 8K. They would also like to save their industry against barbarians making inroads on their shores so it looks they are thinking to speed up introduction of the 8K in Japan.
BTW, 2K is the 1920x1080 HD, 4K is double of that 3840x2160 and the 8K is again double at 7680x4320. The term Octo HD is thus correct.

Irkuck continues to confound me by starting new threads that he is totally cynical of.

As a pro-4k guy, I have to say 8k is an overkill, simply because of the size and viewing distance required which is likely to be beyond the normal city dwellings.
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post #9 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

As a pro-4k guy, I have to say 8k is an overkill, simply because of the size and viewing distance required which is likely to be beyond the normal city dwellings.
I think the point is that 8K should look good at any size or viewing distance. At larger screen sizes, 4K is not going to look any better than current sub-60″ 1080p displays. Having more resolution than you need is never a bad thing, and I am definitely looking forward to 8K displays. I can’t imagine them being released any time in the near future though.
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post #10 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 07:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Actually, I think you will find that 8K is 16× HD (I am unsure on the correct prefix) with its 7680×4320 resolution.
Any Sytech is absolutely correct with his post. 8K is not happening any time soon, let’s wait until 4K OLEDs are beginning to materialise and then be made available at affordable prices first.

LOL - how about just 2K OLED large panels. You have to crawl before you walk.

The proper moniker for NHK's 8K is Super Hi-Vision BTW.
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post #11 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 07:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Irkuck continues to confound me by starting new threads that he is totally cynical of.
As a pro-4k guy, I have to say 8k is an overkill, simply because of the size and viewing distance required which is likely to be beyond the normal city dwellings.

City dwelling helps. Smaller apartments mean sitting closer to the display. That is crutcial for both 4K and 8K:

shv.gif
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post #12 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 07:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Japanese seem to be determined to skip the 4K and are moving directly to the 8K. They would also like to save their industry against barbarians making inroads on their shores so it looks they are thinking to speed up introduction of the 8K in Japan.

Do you have any evidence that NHK plans to release it's Super Hi-Vision format earlier than 2020? There is plenty of evidence for that date
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post #13 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

The Octo HD will be no-compromise Super Ultra HDTV including not only the 8K by 4K picture but also the 120 Hz frame rate and 10-bit color. With the experimental 8K LCD display demonstrated and now the 8K camera @120 Hz being shown the old 4K will be left in the dust even before it appears.
irkurk, in case you weren't joking I would point out that there is no such thing as "Super Ultra HDTV". There is simply 4K UHDTV and 8K UHDTV. Also 120 fps is supported at both 4K and 8K as seen in the official UHDTV standard. Are you trying to argue against the idea of 4K TVs by stating that there will eventually be 8K TVs? That doesn't seem logical since there is a huge TV size range where 4K would make more sense than either 2K or 8K.

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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Japanese seem to be determined to skip the 4K and are moving directly to the 8K. They would also like to save their industry against barbarians making inroads on their shores so it looks they are thinking to speed up introduction of the 8K in Japan.
The NHK is promoting "Super Hi-Vision", which is 8K UHDTV with 22.2 channel audio, but from the various articles I have read I think most of the world will move towards 4K UHDTV.

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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

BTW, 2K is the 1920x1080 HD, 4K is double of that 3840x2160 and the 8K is again double at 7680x4320. The term Octo HD is thus correct.
The people at the ITU who made the UHDTV standard use the term "8K UHDTV".
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post #14 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 09:10 PM
 
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Super Hi-Vision 8K TV standard approved by UN agency

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19370582
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post #15 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 09:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

irkurk, in case you weren't joking I would point out that there is no such thing as "Super Ultra HDTV". There is simply 4K UHDTV and 8K UHDTV. Also 120 fps is supported at both 4K and 8K as seen in the official UHDTV standard. Are you trying to argue against the idea of 4K TVs by stating that there will eventually be 8K TVs? That doesn't seem logical since there is a huge TV size range where 4K would make more sense than either 2K or 8K.

Sharp has already shown an 85" Super Hi-Vision display:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/11/sharp-8k-super-hi-vision-lcd-4k-tv-and-freestyle-wireless-lcd-h/
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post #17 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

City dwelling helps. Smaller apartments mean sitting closer to the display. That is crutcial for both 4K and 8K:
shv.gif

We have already discussed this at length in the 4k thread. But just even looking at your picture... how big do you think the wall has to be? smile.gif
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post #18 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 09:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

We have already discussed this at length in the 4k thread. But just even looking at your picture... how big do you think the wall has to be? smile.gif

LOl - I think you realize that the sizes of the images in that photo have been . . . exaggerated a bit.
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post #19 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 09:27 PM
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LOl - I think you realize that the sizes of the images in that photo have been . . . exaggerated a bit.

"a bit" is right... nonetheless it is representative. The Digital Cinema picture looks roughly like 100" screen with respect to the humanoid. Again, how large do you think an 8k screen will require for say 1-0.75X picture height?

8k for movies and conventions may make sense. Not for mere mortals in city dwellings.
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

"a bit" is right... nonetheless it is representative. The Digital Cinema picture looks roughly like 100" screen with respect to the humanoid. Again, how large do you think an 8k screen will require for say 1-0.75X picture height?
8k for movies and conventions may make sense. Not for mere mortals in city dwellings.

That DC image is 200+", not 100". I know - I used to have a 16x9 144" screen and it was WAY smaller than that DC image.

So you thnk an 84" display is too big? That's what the CEMs are showing for 4K and again Sharp showed an 85" 8K display.

Remember, people are going to be sitting 6 feet away from those kinds of displays.
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post #21 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 09:44 PM
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I don't think 84" is too big. In fact for the past 2 years I have been saying optimal size for city dwellers is roughly 80" and I am a proponent for huge TV.

But I am not unrealistic. 8k TV require much larger TV size and uncomfortable seating distance to be perceivable. Heuristically, if you get any layman to place a sofa vs the TV, it would likely be about 10-12' away.
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post #22 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 10:17 PM
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The market is strongly ignoring even 70" TV at this point; I'm not clear why people are again bullish on even bigger screens. Sharp's 70" sets are even cheaper in year 2 but are poised to manage <0.2% of the global TV market in 2012. Obviously, this could grow over time. But it's not like some sort of technical revolution change the equation. I mean it's simply bigger TV. And buyers are staying away in droves.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

I don't think 84" is too big. In fact for the past 2 years I have been saying optimal size for city dwellers is roughly 80" and I am a proponent for huge TV.
But I am not unrealistic. 8k TV require much larger TV size and uncomfortable seating distance to be perceivable. Heuristically, if you get any layman to place a sofa vs the TV, it would likely be about 10-12' away.

They used to say the same thing about HDTV . . . you need a BIG display. Yet the most common size sold is 36/42"

Then you have the differences in the amount of pixels in each display:

HD: 2MP
4K: 8MP
8K 32MP

Where many are saying that sitting 10 feet away from an 84" 4K TV doesn't look much different than a compatiably sized HDTV, those that have seen 8K don't say that.
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

The market is strongly ignoring even 70" TV at this point; I'm not clear why people are again bullish on even bigger screens. Sharp's 70" sets are even cheaper in year 2 but are poised to manage <0.2% of the global TV market in 2012. Obviously, this could grow over time. But it's not like some sort of technical revolution change the equation. I mean it's simply bigger TV. And buyers are staying away in droves.

According to the last NPD numbers I saw, the 50" and above size HDTVs now represent 1 out of every 6 sales.
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post #25 of 725 Old 09-10-2012, 11:54 PM
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Everything I have read says 8k is the holy grail of high resolution displays. The human eye cannot perceive any higher rez.

I think over the next 5-10 years the trend will be to up to 70-90" screens so the higher Rez will illustrate itself in most homes. In the 6-10 years before 8k is available for home consumption, most folks will have evolved to their second gen hd set, and they won't be staying at 36-48" screens but will be looking to double that.

If it were me, I'd pass on this new consumer versions of 4k, unless you're a 3 d fan, and hold out for oled (first), and then 8k (next)

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post #26 of 725 Old 09-11-2012, 12:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

Everything I have read says 8k is the holy grail of high resolution displays. The human eye cannot perceive any higher rez.

So what you are saying is that 8K looks indistinguishable from real life?
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I think over the next 5-10 years the trend will be to up to 70-90" screens so the higher Rez will illustrate itself in most homes. In the 6-10 years before 8k is available for home consumption, most folks will have evolved to their second gen hd set, and they won't be staying at 36-48" screens but will be looking to double that.
If it were me, I'd pass on this new consumer versions of 4k, unless you're a 3 d fan, and hold out for oled (first), and then 8k (next)

How much are those 70+" HDTVs going to cost? What's the cheapest price for a 65" HDTV today?

Consumers are having issues spending $100 for a BD player and paying the upcharge over what a DVD costs today. What is going to motivate them to start spending thousands of dollars for an HDTV when most today look to spend less than $1000? Do you see the economy maiking a huge improvement in the next 5 years? I don't.
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post #27 of 725 Old 09-11-2012, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by sytech View Post

8K for the consumers will not happen for a long, long time. 2025 at the earliest.

rolleyes.gif
So, what will be available in 2025?
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post #28 of 725 Old 09-11-2012, 11:30 AM
 
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rolleyes.gif
So, what will be available in 2025?

HDTV and 4KTV.

SD is still with us right? It's over 60 years old. LOL - it will probably be around in 2025 too.
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post #29 of 725 Old 09-11-2012, 11:58 AM
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HDTV and 4KTV.
SD is still with us right? It's over 60 years old. LOL - it will probably be around in 2025 too.

So, for the next 13 years, the only improvement will be a technology that will be available for sale by this christmas?
In a year or so when everyone is making OLED and/or 4K TVs until 2025, there will be no new technological advances in Televisions.
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So, for the next 13 years, the only improvement will be a technology that will be available for sale by this christmas?
In a year or so when everyone is making OLED and/or 4K TVs until 2025, there will be no new technological advances in Televisions.

OLED is a technological advancement. Could easily replace LCD and PDP in the not too distant future.

Autostereoscopic 3DTVs (no glasses) will be coming in the next few years - definitely a technological advancement.

Sony's Crystal LED would be a technological advancement.

4K LCD TVs are an evolutionary change (IMO)
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