What frame rate can PDP/LCD/etc be typically *natively* driven at? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 7 Old 01-02-2013, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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....or do any of them, perhaps the high end ones, exceed 60FPS input?

Note, I'm trying to stay clear of the Hz terminology as much as I can to stem confusion with the internal refresh rates.

It's not a spec that I can readily find---I'm not even sure what the industry term would be for it.

To try to ask this better (or worse, I'm sorry):

I've seen mentioned what the *output* limitations typically are (I don't remember them all) of various content producing machines, such as: 24fps directly (no pull-down from blu-ray) or 30fps (DVD/blu-ray movie w/ pull-down) or 30-interlaced (from comcast STB) or up to 60fps from blu-ray (I'm fuzzy on all of these---please correct me if you like!!!!!!).

However, I can't seem to find anywhere if there are any, say, "120Hz TV's" could be driven at 120FPS directly through the HDMI from some source truly producing 120FPS (PC? Or some magic hardware box purporting to it's *own* better interpolation).

Perhaps a scenario where some 120 Hz TV's "gaming mode" can accept up to 120FPS frames a second (and hence bypass it's own interpolation)?

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post #2 of 7 Old 01-02-2013, 10:35 AM
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Computer monitors and some DLP projectors can accept a 120Hz input.

I don't know of any flat panel TVs that will accept anything over 60Hz. Any numbers you see over 60Hz on the box is interpolated if it's LCD, and marketing numbers if it's a Plasma display. (they mostly all run at 60Hz)
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post #3 of 7 Old 01-02-2013, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Computer monitors and some DLP projectors can accept a 120Hz input.
I don't know of any flat panel TVs that will accept anything over 60Hz. Any numbers you see over 60Hz on the box is interpolated if it's LCD, and marketing numbers if it's a Plasma display. (they mostly all run at 60Hz)

What I figured on the input. I know full well about the interpolation numbers.

It's a bit of a fringe reason for it anyway currently, but I consider it to be non-trivial. There's already an external box out there that can "convert" any non-3D tv to 3D, and I can envision a world where the purists buy just a raw "dumb" display and have external hookups for the interpolative and 3D effects from companies specializing in *just* that. Or even have boxes that allow externally programmable algorithms that you could download from AVSforum and similar websites. As a software engineer with imaging background, I could supply a version or two of those, but there are more than a few real heavy hitters out there that would try, including perhaps, real imaging companies like Pixar and their expertise. For the 3D t'd have to be active-3D, or passive analglyph-3D (eek!) unless the TV had polarization to begin with.

Leave the physical pixels to the physical pixel guys, and the tweening to the tweening guys, etc.

Things the VIP 3D Theater, and other hardware converters, might really take off with access to the full 120FPS TV input. {shrug}

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post #4 of 7 Old 01-02-2013, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

It's a bit of a fringe reason for it anyway currently, but I consider it to be non-trivial. There's already an external box out there that can "convert" any non-3D tv to 3D, and I can envision a world where the purists buy just a raw "dumb" display and have external hookups for the interpolative and 3D effects from companies specializing in *just* that. Or even have boxes that allow externally programmable algorithms that you could download from AVSforum and similar websites.
Never going to happen.


Theoretically, you could hook a PC up to any current active shutter 3D display, and display a "120Hz" signal by sending it a 60Hz 3D signal, but that would only be supported at 720p resolution right now. And switching to 3D mode on most displays lowers image quality considerably.

As a gamer, I wish 120/240Hz displays actually had the hardware to accept a 120/240Hz input.
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post #5 of 7 Old 01-02-2013, 12:45 PM
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As far as I can tell, the main obstacle is that HDMI doesn't support 1080 @ 120hz. All the 120Hz monitors use DL-DVI, I think (maybe some have displayport too).

And lots of PCs can't output 1080 @ 120Hz over any interface.

Things won't be much better when HDMI 2.0 comes out, since no PCs will support it initially, and it may never become a standard PC feature (Intel prefers displayport).
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post #6 of 7 Old 01-02-2013, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke M View Post

As far as I can tell, the main obstacle is that HDMI doesn't support 1080 @ 120hz.
HDMI would certainly handlle that bandwidth. If you believe wikipedia, 1.3 (already yesterday's rev) allows for this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia article on HDMI View Post

The maximum pixel clock rate for HDMI 1.0 was 165 MHz, which was sufficient to support 1080p and WUXGA (1920×1200) at 60 Hz. HDMI 1.3 increased that to 340 MHz, which allows for higher resolution (such as WQXGA, 2560×1600) across a single digital link.
(To not cause any confusion out there: the 340 MHz is a data bandwidth clock specification and not directly related to FPS)

So, a 2560x1600 @ 60FPS (4,096,000 pixels x 60 FPS = 245,760,000 pixels per second) data trunk could certainly handle a 1920x1080 @ 120FPS (2,073,600 pixels x 120 FPS = 248,832,000 pixels per second). That is only a 1.25% increase in required bandwidth.

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post #7 of 7 Old 01-02-2013, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Never going to happen
Sigh, probably not.

But the 3D converter gadgets are already there. But they're able to drive only at 60Hz total for the flat panels. One I saw can drive anything, even an 1970 black and white tube. Lots of flicker of course. All options are active shutter and analglyph-3D.

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