Want plasma, but maybe should go lcd...PLease help - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 01-03-2013, 05:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Guys

Lots of good info on these forums, so thanks for that..

I really had my heart set on a panny 50" st50, but after reading some on here about IR, I wonder if I should go lcd.. or a different plasma??? After hearing some horror stories about cust service at panny, ... but man, that tv looks awesome and is highly rated every where... And I cant spend much more then 1000.00.

How we will use our tv

I have 3 year old boy/girl twins... so they will be using it more as they get older...

I would guess we watch 3- 10 hrs a day of reg tv... wich could be anything from amc, to boomerang to nick jr and most reg networks... a lot of football, I love hockey, some baseball... maybe 3- 10 hrs a week of xbox..... when I have time... Usually a couple of movies per weekend..


Any suggestions would be appreciated..
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post #2 of 24 Old 01-03-2013, 09:48 AM
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My take is that IR must be real or there wouldn't be so many posts about it. That said, if you want a TV that gets the job done, get an LCD (full array LED if you can). If you want a TV with a slightly better PQ during 'adult time' then get a Plasma. But you'll probably need to babysit that Plasma more than the twins and an LCD combined.


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post #3 of 24 Old 01-03-2013, 10:04 AM
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I have a 60" st50 and have a 47" Sony NX720. I didn't do any break in on the st50 and game in several hour sessions several days a week and haven't had a bit of IR. These guys finding IR I think are running slides to check for IR and then seeing hints of it. I'm not hearing many complaints outside of slides and it's funny they only see the last thing they were watching. If the TV had an IR problem shouldn't there be all kinds of things being retained on the screen not just the football game they were just watching?

That being said I think the Sony HX750 (newer version) and Panny st50 are about the same cost for the same size 55". The Sony has that LED pop that gives it a wow factor on colors and whites. On the other hand the blacks and viewing angle on the Panny are better. It goes BLACK. I really don't think you could go wrong with either. I enjoy the pop of the Sony and I get sucked into the blacks of the Panny.
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Thanks... that makes me feel a little better towards the st50....

Im new to all the "plasma" jargon, what exactly does it mean to "run slides" do yo mean people actually run slides of solid colors just to look for IR?
Also, do you find the st50 bright enough?
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post #5 of 24 Old 01-03-2013, 01:36 PM
 
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^Nope, not to detect IR (unless this is a new development, I have a Kuro from 2009) but are break-in slides of varying color.
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post #6 of 24 Old 01-03-2013, 02:27 PM
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If you watch 3-10 hours a day of regular TV, I can't imagine 3-10 hours a week of Xbox being a problem, unless that's 10 hours straight of the same game. (as a father with young kids, I expect you mean an hour or two a night) If I had the TV on for that long though, I would personally choose LED for the higher energy efficiency.

It might be worthwhile buying a set with Gorilla Glass on the front if you have young children though. I'm pretty sure all of Sony's glass-fronted LCDs are using it for example. Not sure about anyone else.
Panasonic used to advertise their "tough panel" on some models (not Gorilla Glass) but I'm not sure if they offer anything like that now.
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post #7 of 24 Old 01-03-2013, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redskinjonesy View Post

Thanks... that makes me feel a little better towards the st50....
Im new to all the "plasma" jargon, what exactly does it mean to "run slides" do yo mean people actually run slides of solid colors just to look for IR?
Also, do you find the st50 bright enough?

The ST50 is plenty bright.

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post #8 of 24 Old 01-03-2013, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Still leaning toward the st50.... How "sterdy" is the glass on those?....

I saw a SONY KDL55HX850 today... it must have been set up well , cause that thing looked awesome... deep blacks... BUT a KDL46HX850 is a bit pricey at around 1600.00. I wish there were more places near where I live to see the st50 in person... best buy by me only has one set up for 3d viewing, no normal hd material running through it...
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post #9 of 24 Old 01-03-2013, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redskinjonesy View Post

Still leaning toward the st50.... How "sterdy" is the glass on those?....
I saw a SONY KDL55HX850 today... it must have been set up well , cause that thing looked awesome... deep blacks... BUT a KDL46HX850 is a bit pricey at around 1600.00. I wish there were more places near where I live to see the st50 in person... best buy by me only has one set up for 3d viewing, no normal hd material running through it...

The glass is as sturdy as you'd hope, i.e. not chincy or cheap. The HX850 is a pretty solid FP and not one I'd necessarily recommened against.

I can't really think of any scenarios I'd recommend against either FP you're inquiring about. I've been more impressed with the ST50, especially in terms of bang for buck. You can pick a 55" ST50 for $300 less than the 46" HX850 and for the same price as the HX850 you could pick up the 60"ST50.

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post #10 of 24 Old 01-04-2013, 07:59 AM
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I wouldn't get the Sony over the Panny if if comes down to losing size. If money is a factor get the ST50 all the way. There just isn't enough better to justify getting a smaller TV. The panny is a heavy TV and I would guess that it has some strong glass. It has a wavy appearance to it when off similar to the Sony gorilla glass. You can not notice it when on with either one.

Gorilla glass is known to be good at scratch proof but as you should know you drop an iphone they bust pretty easy. I think it's a brand doing a good job telling people you need to have it. I wouldn't even consider that when buying a TV even having it.
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post #11 of 24 Old 01-04-2013, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by SightSeeker1 View Post

The panny is a heavy TV and I would guess that it has some strong glass.
Weight is not a factor in glass strength, and if they are not advertising it as a feature, I would not expect it to offer any real impact resistance. Standard Plasma glass breaks very easily from impacts to the front of the panel.
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Gorilla glass is known to be good at scratch proof but as you should know you drop an iphone they bust pretty easy. I think it's a brand doing a good job telling people you need to have it. I wouldn't even consider that when buying a TV even having it.
Gorilla Glass is very strong against flexing or impacts to the face of the glass. But because it is glass, it is still susceptible to impacts along the edge, and the iPhone design leaves the edge of the glass exposed. (and the materials chosen won't protect it in any way from a drop) It's the back glass that tends to break more commonly with the iPhone 4/4S design, and that is not Gorilla Glass. (in fact, it's only assumed to be Gorilla Glass on the display, Apple does not claim that it is)

I couldn't find anything in English, but here's a video that shows what the impact resistance is like for Sony's LCDs. I can't understand what they're saying, but it appears that the Gorilla Glass is still intact at the end, though they managed to crack the LCD glass underneath it. (but if the Gorilla Glass remained intact, at least it is still safe)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnOj3YGItBo#t=2m35s

Impact resistance isn't a concern for me at all, but it would be if I had young children. I have read too many horror stories on this forum and other AV sites over the years, that I wouldn't consider anything without impact resistance if I had young children.
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post #12 of 24 Old 01-04-2013, 03:23 PM
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Apple has more or less confirmed it's Gorilla Glass on the iPhone by listing Corning on its supplier reports. Some info here: http://9to5mac.com/2012/03/02/apple-acknowledges-use-of-corning-gorilla-glass-on-iphone-means-gorilla-glass-2-likely-for-iphone-5/
http://www.apple.com/about/job-creation/

You can choose to interpret this as "they didn't confirm Gorilla Glass, just Corning", but that interpretation would be more or less idiotic.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #13 of 24 Old 01-04-2013, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Apple has more or less confirmed it's Gorilla Glass on the iPhone by listing Corning on its supplier reports. Some info here: http://9to5mac.com/2012/03/02/apple-acknowledges-use-of-corning-gorilla-glass-on-iphone-means-gorilla-glass-2-likely-for-iphone-5/
http://www.apple.com/about/job-creation/
You can choose to interpret this as "they didn't confirm Gorilla Glass, just Corning", but that interpretation would be more or less idiotic.
I expected it would be, but they certainly don't advertise that fact the way other manufacturers do. Doesn't change anything I've said though; its weakness is from the exposed edge, and not impacts to the face of the device. With a TV, you're almost never going to have any impacts on the edge of the glass.
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post #14 of 24 Old 01-04-2013, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

I expected it would be, but they certainly don't advertise that fact the way other manufacturers do. Doesn't change anything I've said though; its weakness is from the exposed edge, and not impacts to the face of the device. With a TV, you're almost never going to have any impacts on the edge of the glass.

Why should they? Apple builds quality products, albeit expensive, but quality none the less. If you do a little research before you buy a phone you'll see. I did. As far as damaging the phone by hitting the exposed edge, that's what hard case phone cases are for. I've dropped my iPhone 5 a few times with no problems as all. However we're off topic now and we all know how you feel about plasma tv's rolleyes.gif
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post #15 of 24 Old 01-04-2013, 09:14 PM
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Why should they? Apple builds quality products, albeit expensive, but quality none the less. If you do a little research before you buy a phone you'll see. I did. As far as damaging the phone by hitting the exposed edge, that's what hard case phone cases are for. I've dropped my iPhone 5 a few times with no problems as all. However we're off topic now and we all know how you feel about plasma tv's rolleyes.gif
Having young children who are liable to throw something at the TV has nothing to do with LCD or Plasma, and everything to do with the materials used to protect it. I can't think of anything better than Gorilla Glass. I know Sony are using that with their higher-end LED sets (anything with glass on the front) and I don't know whether anyone else is. I know that Panasonic are not though.
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Having young children who are liable to throw something at the TV has nothing to do with LCD or Plasma, and everything to do with the materials used to protect it. I can't think of anything better than Gorilla Glass. I know Sony are using that with their higher-end LED sets (anything with glass on the front) and I don't know whether anyone else is. I know that Panasonic are not though.

I feel like if somebody throws an object, either purposely or not, at your display, short of a projector screen, you're going to have issues. Regardless of PDP glass, Gorilla Glass, LCD matte, and etc.

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Very true. No tv panel is going to withstand an over-zealous child swinging a plastic toy. Do tv mfrs use Gorilla Glass or Gorilla Glass 2? I know Apple has an exclusive contract with Corning to use the Gorilla Glass 2 (which is much stronger and more resilient than "regular" Gorilla Glass) in their iPhone 5's. It's more expensive but at the small footprint of an iPhone, the cost is minimal. A 50" plasma tv is another case altogether.
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Enough about the iPhone already biggrin.gif (Galaxy S3 user here....my first smartphone).
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Enough about the iPhone already biggrin.gif (Galaxy S3 user here....my first smartphone).

But the charging port is all digital wink.gif

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post #20 of 24 Old 01-05-2013, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, at least I know which phone to buy in case my kids throw things at it...lol

I am still heavily looking at the st50.. that Sony IS AWESOME, and looked WAY better then the one and only st50 I could find near me, ( at best buy hooked up to the 3d booth), but I am pretty sure that st 50 was NOT set up anywhere near right...

I was really more worried about the kids utilizing the TV more as they get older, not throwing things at it, but I am no fool and know accidents happen. Do they make any sort of screen protectors that can be taken on and off easily? Say maybe only be on the tv while the kids are up kind a thing? Or is that more work then its worth...

Of course, I could always do what the cranky old tv repair guy told me to do when I asked his opinion on TV's..."Buy the cheapest piece of crap you can, and throw it away when it breaks, and go buy another. 'Cause these things are all ****, LCD, plasma, dlp, all ****")... I'd a laughed in his face if I didn't think he'd throw his volt meter at me..lol

But he, in a crazy way did raise a good point... TV's don't last anymore... I'm in the hunt because my 42" Olivia died 3 days after Christmas... 5 years old..I can fix it myself, (blown caps on power supply), but I know most wouldn't...And I may not be so lucky next time....


Any one have any thoughts on the best "cheap" tv at 46"-50" ?

And thanks again for the input... you guys rock, even if you do get into a "Big Bang Theory" style argument over a sub topic like gorilla glass...... .................................................................Bazinga......................................................Bazinga....................................................Bazinga...........................................Bazinga.............lmfao...
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post #21 of 24 Old 01-05-2013, 06:24 AM
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Very true. No tv panel is going to withstand an over-zealous child swinging a plastic toy. Do tv mfrs use Gorilla Glass or Gorilla Glass 2? I know Apple has an exclusive contract with Corning to use the Gorilla Glass 2 (which is much stronger and more resilient than "regular" Gorilla Glass) in their iPhone 5's. It's more expensive but at the small footprint of an iPhone, the cost is minimal. A 50" plasma tv is another case altogether.
I have already said that Sony are using Gorilla Glass on their flat panel displays, and posted a video that shows adults forcefully throwing remotes at the TV. (a HX820)
One remote is thrown so hard that it smashes open, but the TV remains unscathed. It is only after several repeated throws that the LCD glass underneath the Gorilla Glass is damaged. (which means that the TV is still safe around children)

Apparently some of you thought I was only talking about the merits of the iPhone screen here, but it was just a response to someone that said even with Gorilla Glass the iPhone screen will crack when dropped. The reason those screens can still crack, is because they have an exposed edge, it's typically not caused from impacts to the face of the device.

Panasonic used to offer a "Tough Glass" option on some of their Plasmas, but don't any more.
Typical Plasma displays are already more fragile than even regular LCDs, where there can be some flex without destroying the panel. Plasma panels are rigid and it doesn't take much of an impact to crack them.

No TV is going to be indestructible, but I think something with Gorilla Glass on the front should withstand the amount of force a young child can throw something at it.
I know that Sony offer Gorilla Glass on the front of their higher-end displays, but I don't know if anyone else does.
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I was really more worried about the kids utilizing the TV more as they get older, not throwing things at it, but I am no fool and know accidents happen. Do they make any sort of screen protectors that can be taken on and off easily? Say maybe only be on the tv while the kids are up kind a thing? Or is that more work then its worth...
There are some companies that sell plexiglass covers to go over the screen, but I wouldn't have one of them in my house. They look ugly and there's no point buying a good TV if you're going to watch it through a plexiglass screen.
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Of course, I could always do what the cranky old tv repair guy told me to do when I asked his opinion on TV's..."Buy the cheapest piece of crap you can, and throw it away when it breaks, and go buy another. 'Cause these things are all ****, LCD, plasma, dlp, all ****")... I'd a laughed in his face if I didn't think he'd throw his volt meter at me..lol
Sadly this is the attitude a lot of people have these days, and it's exactly because they buy cheap crap, that the TV market is in such trouble, and quality is so bad.
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But he, in a crazy way did raise a good point... TV's don't last anymore... I'm in the hunt because my 42" Olivia died 3 days after Christmas... 5 years old..I can fix it myself, (blown caps on power supply), but I know most wouldn't...And I may not be so lucky next time....
If you spend a decent amount of money on a good brand such as Sony or Panasonic, your TV should definitely last at least five years. I would not have the same expectation if you were to buy a Samsung or LG panel.
Plasmas have been more susceptible to failure in the past in my experience, primarily due to the power supply failing, because they draw more power, and put greater demands on the power supply. LCDs, and LED sets in particular draw far less power, and it is a more constant load than the fluctuations of a Plasma display. (though LED dimming does change that somewhat)
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post #22 of 24 Old 01-05-2013, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I think you need to relax... I understand perfectly everything you said in all your earlier posts..
Your last statement was exactly my point about cheap tv's... if a **** tv and good tv last the same amount of time, the real question is how much am i willing to pay to look at a better picture for that amount of time.

Your inability to understand humor must make you fun to be around....
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post #23 of 24 Old 01-05-2013, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Sadly this is the attitude a lot of people have these days, and it's exactly because they buy cheap crap, that the TV market is in such trouble, and quality is so bad.
If you spend a decent amount of money on a good brand such as Sony or Panasonic, your TV should definitely last at least five years. I would not have the same expectation if you were to buy a Samsung or LG panel.

I would strongly disagree about the LG. Out of the 5 major mfrs (LG, Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, and Vizio), the only throw-away tv due to quality issues/support is Vizio.
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post #24 of 24 Old 01-05-2013, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

I expected it would be, but they certainly don't advertise that fact the way other manufacturers do. Doesn't change anything I've said though; its weakness is from the exposed edge, and not impacts to the face of the device. With a TV, you're almost never going to have any impacts on the edge of the glass.

Agreed. iPhone 5 seems no better than iPhone 4 in that regard either.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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