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post #271 of 349 Old 04-02-2014, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

All that has been shown has been development kits, not consumer hardware. The original devkit was very low resolution - something that anyone using an Oculus should have been very aware of. DK2 significantly increases the resolution to 1080p and moves from LCD to OLED.
The consumer version should be using a panel with at least 2560x1440 resolution on its release.
Field of view is directly related to image quality. The higher your field of view, the larger surface area each individual pixel covers. A low FoV device like the Glyph (45°?) is going to have a much higher pixel density than something with 110° FoV
Sony's Morpheus is a VR headset like the Oculus Rift. Glyph is a personal 3D viewer. They are not in the same device class.
The Glyph is in the same class of products as Sony's old HMZ headsets - which are also personal 3D viewers with a 45° FoV, rather than VR headsets.

Sorry, I also meant comparison with the HMZ. On the surface of ignorance, larger FOV of the OR looks mighty better compared with Glyph. Glyph however is already 1280x720 for each eye. Note that OR, even with the speculative final 2560x1440 display, (in this fresh review the talk is about 1080p dev version coming this summer), would only achieve the 1280x1440 resolution for each eye. This would be expanded to the double FOV comparing to Glyph, watering down the perceived resolution. So in terms of the PQ one can not expect too much from OR and hopefully it is optimized not to disappoint. On the other hand, I see a clear path towards next gen Glyph VR device by providing it with 1080p micromirror chip for each eye. That should be the pixel budget enough for the expanded FOV
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post #272 of 349 Old 04-05-2014, 01:31 PM
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OR be better better than this...eek.gif
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post #273 of 349 Old 04-05-2014, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

OR be better better than this...eek.gif

 

......................well.....................huh.  That thing would be fun to play with....a little.


Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
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post #274 of 349 Old 04-06-2014, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

OR be better better than this...eek.gif

Wow Irkuck!...I see the light. I think these babies have a shot at taking down Oculus Rift too:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Toy+Picture+viewers&id=61C0596B9DF0860BDC1C8D7746CDB1FF54F6FE8C&FORM=IQFRBA

If you are right about Glyph...What are you going to do if/when FaceBook buys them too? Just asking.
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post #275 of 349 Old 04-06-2014, 01:20 PM
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Wow Irkuck!...I see the light. I think these babies have a shot at taking down Oculus Rift too:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Toy+Picture+viewers&id=61C0596B9DF0860BDC1C8D7746CDB1FF54F6FE8C&FORM=IQFRBA

Heh, don't see there top-notch 1080p displays which every decent smartie now has and OR still do not have.
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If you are right about Glyph...What are you going to do if/when FaceBook buys them too? Just asking.

Unlikely, improbable. Why I do think so? Due to the fact digital micromirror chips used in Glyph are proprietary product of Texas Instruments. There must be relation between the Glyph makers and TI for the provision of early new chips and support, though I am unclear what this relation is. Now if some big shark would like to swallow Glyph, TI could say something about providing micromirrors and for all signs on the sky TI wants to promote this as technology without the shark dictat.
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post #276 of 349 Old 04-06-2014, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Heh, don't see there top-notch 1080p displays which every decent smartie now has and OR still do not have.
DK2 is using a 1080p OLED display running at 75Hz with 2ms persistence.

From the impressions I have read, it seems to be using a diamond pixel structure - which means it's very likely that it is the same display the Galaxy S5 is using.
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post #277 of 349 Old 04-06-2014, 02:21 PM
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The Glyph will be a non-starter for many because of the typical single-chip DLP issues: rainbows, PWM dither noise (especially in lower grayscale), and posterization/false-contouring on high speed motion. LED light source offers some improvement but does not solve any of these issues on front-projectors.

Edit:
I forgot to mention that DLP also has the worst contrast ratio and blacks of any remaining display technology.
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post #278 of 349 Old 04-07-2014, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

DK2 is using a 1080p OLED display running at 75Hz with 2ms persistence.From the impressions I have read, it seems to be using a diamond pixel structure - which means it's very likely that it is the same display the Galaxy S5 is using.

What I meant is that OR is still not at its required res: The 1080p OLED panel still isn't high enough a resolution to avoid jagged edges — Oculus says the consumer version will have even higher resolution

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The Glyph will be a non-starter for many because of the typical single-chip DLP issues: rainbows, PWM dither noise (especially in lower grayscale), and posterization/false-contouring on high speed motion. LED light source offers some improvement but does not solve any of these issues on front-projectors.
Edit:
I forgot to mention that DLP also has the worst contrast ratio and blacks of any remaining display technology.

Nobody ever mentioned these problems when testing Glyph. Quite opposite there many accolades about creamy picture without any jaggies, screen doors or display surface visibility. One reason why these problems were not evident icould be that Glyph uses new generation of miniature micromirror chips with improved parameters. The chips are originally intended for microprojectors but that also makes them ideal for the eye projection. Chip has 0.3", micromirror size is 3 times smaller than normal and its deflection angle is bigger.
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post #279 of 349 Old 04-08-2014, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Heh, don't see there top-notch 1080p displays which every decent smartie now has and OR still do not have.
Unlikely, improbable. Why I do think so? Due to the fact digital micromirror chips used in Glyph are proprietary product of Texas Instruments. There must be relation between the Glyph makers and TI for the provision of early new chips and support, though I am unclear what this relation is. Now if some big shark would like to swallow Glyph, TI could say something about providing micromirrors and for all signs on the sky TI wants to promote this as technology without the shark dictat.

TI would jump all over the OR/FB project if invited to the dance. They are in the business of making money. And Big Screen Cinema and VR via micro display headsets probably already have their interest 100% piqued. They would love nothing more than to see this happen (Glyph exit to a well financed Titan) IMO. Since it could resurrect micromirror HD technology from the dungeons of "niche" tech to high potential mainstream. I am intrigued by the potential of Glyph technology. I hadn't even heard about it until you trolled it on this thread biggrin.gif. But I do admit we owe you a big thumbs up thank you. Because discussion of it has balanced out a pretty one sided conversation. Okay...I grudgingly warmed up to it. wink.gif

Now with that said...I agree with Chronoptomist and some others...that you tend to play up issues (even solved ones) with OR, while downplaying issues with Glyph. Even up the perspective a bit on that front and we'll all give you a big group Techno hug. smile.gif In all seriousness. I think Glyph is impressive technology. But I see it more as a potential HD Cinema and photography display platform than a serious VR competitor to Oculus Rift or Sony Morpheus. And mostly because of the FOV limitations articulated by Chronoptomist and others. Seems like, by the time Glyph solves that problem, the VR boat will have left the dock and already be zooming toward mid-ocean. OR and Morpheus have already optimized their platform for 1080p 60...and at least Oculus Rift is already designing toward optimizing & integrating 4K specs in the initial consumer product...with an eye toward building 8k-16k into their future ideal products (within the next 10 years). I hope Glyph does not have the RBE risks normally associated with micro mirror tech. Because that is a deal breaker for me and probably a lot of people. And it would scare away potential suitors they will need to go mainstream. Meaning...why fool with something that could exacerbate the dizziness and nausea problem already solved without Glyph tech?.
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post #280 of 349 Old 04-08-2014, 11:31 AM
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The Glyph will be a non-starter for many because of the typical single-chip DLP issues: rainbows

Rainbows?? Is there a spinning color wheel in the Glyph?
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post #281 of 349 Old 04-08-2014, 11:56 AM
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Rainbows?? Is there a spinning color wheel in the Glyph?
No, but it's using RGB LEDs which have the same issues. LEDs are solid-state (no moving parts) and can use higher switching rates, but still don't eliminate the fundamental problem of drawing your red, green, and blue images separately, relying on persistence of vision to integrate them into a full color image.
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post #282 of 349 Old 04-10-2014, 06:20 AM
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TI would jump all over the OR/FB project if invited to the dance. They are in the business of making money. And Big Screen Cinema and VR via micro display headsets probably already have their interest 100% piqued. They would love nothing more than to see this happen (Glyph exit to a well financed Titan) IMO. Since it could resurrect micromirror HD technology from the dungeons of "niche" tech to high potential mainstream. I am intrigued by the potential of Glyph technology. I hadn't even heard about it until you trolled it on this thread biggrin.gif. But I do admit we owe you a big thumbs up thank you. Because discussion of it has balanced out a pretty one sided conversation. Okay...I grudgingly warmed up to it. wink.gif
.

Everybody would jump to the dance or to the bed provided there is sufficient heap of money on the table. But first, if OR was worth $2 bln there would be almost impossible problem to valuate Glyph. Provided TI would offer exclusivity to the Glyph micromirror technology it would have to be valued much higher than OR which sounds crazy. If in turn if TI would not promise its full technological support Glyph value could be zero. Now, what TI would not like to do is loosing the technology control to somebody else, at least not now. Take into account uncertainty what FB will do with OR, the buy-out could be just asset collection and/or grabbing the field from Google. All this makes sale of Glyph very unlikely at this point.
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Now with that said...I agree with Chronoptomist and some others...that you tend to play up issues (even solved ones) with OR, while downplaying issues with Glyph. Even up the perspective a bit on that front and we'll all give you a big group Techno hug. smile.gif In all seriousness. I think Glyph is impressive technology. But I see it more as a potential HD Cinema and photography display platform than a serious VR competitor to Oculus Rift or Sony Morpheus. And mostly because of the FOV limitations articulated by Chronoptomist and others. Seems like, by the time Glyph solves that problem, the VR boat will have left the dock and already be zooming toward mid-ocean. OR and Morpheus have already optimized their platform for 1080p 60...and at least Oculus Rift is already designing toward optimizing & integrating 4K specs in the initial consumer product...with an eye toward building 8k-16k into their future ideal products (within the next 10 years). I hope Glyph does not have the RBE risks normally associated with micro mirror tech. Because that is a deal breaker for me and probably a lot of people. And it would scare away potential suitors they will need to go mainstream. Meaning...why fool with something that could exacerbate the dizziness and nausea problem already solved without Glyph tech?.

I am not bumping up issues, just being cool on hype. From the start Glyph was universally hailed as excellent display, its noticed problems were minor (softness at edges) even with early prototypes. OR stil has no display finalized. What you say OR is ready for 1080p/60Hz is really playing it up. For the start, OR has now single 1080p display for both eyes which gives 960x1080 for each eye. Glyph has 1280x720 for each eye which is natural HD format from the start. I would like to see another Glyph with bigger FOV but I think that would be much better looking with next gen 1080p micromirrors for each eye instead of watering down the current res to get bigger FOV.

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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

No, but it's using RGB LEDs which have the same issues. LEDs are solid-state (no moving parts) and can use higher switching rates, but still don't eliminate the fundamental problem of drawing your red, green, and blue images separately, relying on persistence of vision to integrate them into a full color image.

Most likely your argument is shaky which is confirmed by that nobody ever mentioned any rainbows. Fundamental reason for this might be that this is not the case of displaying on large area screen and observing it, this is projection to the eye. Rainbows often have to do with the activation of peripheral vision due to the movement of eyeballs. Glyph picture is observed in relaxed state.
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post #283 of 349 Old 04-10-2014, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Everybody would jump to the dance or to the bed provided there is sufficient heap of money on the table. But first, if OR was worth $2 bln there would be almost impossible problem to valuate Glyph. Provided TI would offer exclusivity to the Glyph micromirror technology it would have to be valued much higher than OR which sounds crazy. If in turn if TI would not promise its full technological support Glyph value could be zero. Now, what TI would not like to do is loosing the technology control to somebody else, at least not now. Take into account uncertainty what FB will do with OR, the buy-out could be just asset collection and/or grabbing the field from Google. All this makes sale of Glyph very unlikely at this point.
I am not bumping up issues, just being cool on hype. From the start Glyph was universally hailed as excellent display, its noticed problems were minor (softness at edges) even with early prototypes. OR stil has no display finalized. What you say OR is ready for 1080p/60Hz is really playing it up. For the start, OR has now single 1080p display for both eyes which gives 960x1080 for each eye. Glyph has 1280x720 for each eye which is natural HD format from the start. I would like to see another Glyph with bigger FOV but I think that would be much better looking with next gen 1080p micromirrors for each eye instead of watering down the current res to get bigger FOV.
Most likely your argument is shaky which is confirmed by that nobody ever mentioned any rainbows. Fundamental reason for this might be that this is not the case of displaying on large area screen and observing it, this is projection to the eye. Rainbows often have to do with the activation of peripheral vision due to the movement of eyeballs. Glyph picture is observed in relaxed state.

I have never heard of anyone complaining about rainbows on the Glyph either. By all accounts, Glyphs VRDs are said to provide a sharper picture even at lower resolution and one that is also easier on the eyes. It is simple really, if Glyph can increase the FOV (military VRDs can go to 110) at an affordable cost, it clearly is the superior way to view VR. Now the problem is we are probably at least 5 years away from that kind of tech being affordable for the consumers and we all know the superior tech does not always become the leader.
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post #284 of 349 Old 04-10-2014, 01:35 PM
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I have never heard of anyone complaining about rainbows on the Glyph either. By all accounts, Glyphs VRDs are said to provide a sharper picture even at lower resolution and one that is also easier on the eyes. It is simple really, if Glyph can increase the FOV (military VRDs can go to 110) at an affordable cost, it clearly is the superior way to view VR. Now the problem is we are probably at least 5 years away from that kind of tech being affordable for the consumers and we all know the superior tech does not always become the leader.

It is an interesting question if there are any basic problems with increasing Glyph FOV due to retinal projection. If not, then Texas Instruments would have to see a business in making bigger micromirror chips, e.g. 1080p. The current 720p chips are intended mainly for the microprojectors, there is no reason to make 1080p chips for this application.

BTW 1. Here there might be reason why FB bought OR, to have some arguments with Apple?

BTW 2. Avegant just informed investors that work on Glyph is progressing well, optics has been refined and it looks the product will be delivered on time.
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post #285 of 349 Old 04-11-2014, 04:26 AM
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Most likely your argument is shaky which is confirmed by that nobody ever mentioned any rainbows. Fundamental reason for this might be that this is not the case of displaying on large area screen and observing it, this is projection to the eye. Rainbows often have to do with the activation of peripheral vision due to the movement of eyeballs. Glyph picture is observed in relaxed state.
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I have never heard of anyone complaining about rainbows on the Glyph either. By all accounts, Glyphs VRDs are said to provide a sharper picture even at lower resolution and one that is also easier on the eyes. It is simple really, if Glyph can increase the FOV (military VRDs can go to 110) at an affordable cost, it clearly is the superior way to view VR. Now the problem is we are probably at least 5 years away from that kind of tech being affordable for the consumers and we all know the superior tech does not always become the leader.

Well, how many people have even tested for rainbows? For whatever reason, not everyone can see them on older DLP displays either. It also depends on what content was shown. I only see them on high-contrast images (bright objects on darker backgrounds). It wouldn't surprise me if they carefully chose demo content that makes the device look good.

The point is that any sequential color display is subject to rainbows. Until it's out in the field we won't know how many people are affected when watching a wide variety of content.
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post #286 of 349 Old 04-12-2014, 05:42 AM
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Well, how many people have even tested for rainbows? For whatever reason, not everyone can see them on older DLP displays either. It also depends on what content was shown. I only see them on high-contrast images (bright objects on darker backgrounds). It wouldn't surprise me if they carefully chose demo content that makes the device look good.
The point is that any sequential color display is subject to rainbows. Until it's out in the field we won't know how many people are affected when watching a wide variety of content.

Point here is that this is not a standard display. One can not exclude there are absolutely no rainbows in any circumstances but from the current reports there are no evident rainbows
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post #287 of 349 Old 04-21-2014, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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post #288 of 349 Old 04-24-2014, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I decided to post this from the HTPC companion VR thread over here too.

"Virtual reality makes 3D movies look like a carnival sideshow by comparison."

That quote from a hard core skeptic of VR said it all in the following article to me.

http://www.salon.com/2014/04/24/the_truth_about_facebooks_plan_to_literally_alter_reality/?source=newsletter

So too did this comment:

"My senses were tricked, and I was in it. I traveled through a vortex of white coral, and an expansive void of darkness punctuated with geometric lines of light. I looked up and down, left and right, swirling my head. I was only mildly aware that the outside reality must think I look nuts. I was slightly aware that despite being comfortably seated, my heart was racing as if I was speeding through space.

There were, however, moments when I was jerked back into actual reality. I had to wait for sections of the documentary to load, and at one moment I was sure that it had ended, before brilliant images burst onto the screen. There were also physical downsides to the technology. By the end I was tinged with motion sickness, slightly concerned by my racing heart and craving human interaction.

Taking Oculus Rift off was like breaking through the surface of a pool. I took a moment to breathe and re-acclimate to the world around me. “I was really in it!” I blurted out to George. “It was like I was in my own special world.”

He laughed, “Well that’s the point.”

For the first time I understood why Oculus Rift, and virtual reality more broadly, were so incredible. (And maybe even why Mark Zuckerberg paid billions for the technology.) Virtual reality makes 3D movies look like a carnival sideshow by comparison."

After reading this article outside of the tech realm I really saw how powerful exposure to this new technology will impact people. I respectufully disagree with commenters who think VR will be a slow-go build. I think it will be flat out explosive out of the gate. The world is waiting for something like this. In a myriad of applications. From the moment someone straps one on in a Best Buy, Fry's or Gamestop, they will be on it! Just like that lady. And most of them will want it. Parents will see it as a valuable tool for teaching their children. Home Schooling & Education in general could take on a whole new dimension. Learning a musical instrument could become as easy as ABC's. This will be REVOLUTIONARY IMO. Especially once the VR boundaries move beyond just gaming, rock concerts and movies.

I fearlessly predict one of the biggest andmost fun games for VR will be resurrection of the "RockStar" music games series. Because of its potential to relate to real world experiences and learning. The transformation of the writer of this article suggests that VR Technology will be very compelling in persuading women to try & use it. That goes beyond "Big Potential". And enters the realm of potentially earth shaking potential. And that is why Zuckerberg forked over $2 Billion for it before the consumer model even launched. I think those emphatically pushing the Fad meme missed the memo entirely on what the "Next Generation" paradigm shift really is. VR is a massive convergence of a ton of A/V technology into a single and simple progressive format. From HDTV-HTPC-HDMI-3D-HDA (audio)-HD Motion Tracking/Telemetry-Every other present & future Computer and Communication platform out there...VR embraces all of it! In a simple package that is very easy for a consumer to see, digest, experience and understand. IMO it will all be application driven in the end.
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post #289 of 349 Old 04-28-2014, 11:24 AM
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post #290 of 349 Old 04-28-2014, 01:09 PM
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^^^I remember when that first came out.  Weird stuff.  Not gonna do it.  Got enough confusion in my life.


Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
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post #291 of 349 Old 05-23-2014, 01:10 AM
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post #292 of 349 Old 05-23-2014, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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And now guess who joins the party?

The more the merrier IMO. I absolutely love all of this activity and choice emerging around VR and Micro HDTV Headsets. There really does appear to be a new well defined market emerging in A/V Displays. And one that may eventually require it's own AVS section, like projectors and free standing flat panels. Because the VR/HD Headsets will definitely be serious new technology drivers.
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post #293 of 349 Old 05-31-2014, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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http://news.msn.com/science-technology/samsungs-occulus-headset-sounds-like-a-modern-day-view-master-1

Interesting alliance. But great news on the Next Gen OLEDs for OR. It could mean they are pushing for 4K & 1080p/eye out of the gate.
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post #294 of 349 Old 06-08-2014, 04:43 PM
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sNobody ever mentioned these problems when testing Glyph. Quite opposite there many accolades about creamy picture without any jaggies, screen doors or display surface visibility. One reason why these problems were not evident icould be that Glyph uses new generation of miniature micromirror chips with improved parameters. The chips are originally intended for microprojectors but that also makes them ideal for the eye projection. Chip has 0.3", micromirror size is 3 times smaller than normal and its deflection angle is bigger.
It may be amazing and creamy when you keep your head still or turn head slowly. But tell me about motion blur when you turn head medium fast using most VR technologies. Try to read signs on walls while turning head fast at the same time. Ouch. It wasn't possible on other VR headsets except the Rift. How many milliseconds persistence is the Glyph? Big improvements in persistence is more important than sheer resolution. 2ms persistence at 800x600 produces a more immersive VR experience than 16.7ms persistence at 1920x1080.

I have peeked at Oculus Rift DK2 and low persistence is a big game hanger. Gaining an order of magnitude less persistence (1/10th motion blur!) is what the OR DK2 miraculously achieved via the OLED rolling scan technique (90%:10% dark:bright on a temporal basis). It produces near CRT clarity. Much more important than resolution. After witnessing this, any VR with 16.7ms persistence is DOA!

Now, if we can have low persistence AND high resolution, we are golden.

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post #295 of 349 Old 06-08-2014, 07:33 PM
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Now, if we can have low persistence AND high resolution, we are golden.
Not if it causes judder/strobing/other artefacts.
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post #296 of 349 Old 06-09-2014, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Rejhon View Post

I have peeked at Oculus Rift DK2 and low persistence is a big game hanger. Gaining an order of magnitude less persistence (1/10th motion blur!) is what the OR DK2 miraculously achieved via the OLED rolling scan technique (90%:10% dark:bright on a temporal basis). It produces near CRT clarity. Much more important than resolution. After witnessing this, any VR with 16.7ms persistence is DOA!

Was the image very dim with only 10% illumination time? Guess I'll see for myself at E3 this week. I wasn't all that impressed with the original DK.
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post #297 of 349 Old 06-09-2014, 06:17 AM
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Not if it causes judder/strobing/other artefacts.
The only alternatives are moving to natively higher framerates, or interpolation.
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post #298 of 349 Old 06-09-2014, 05:42 PM
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Not if it causes judder/strobing/other artefacts.
1. There's no visible judder at the framerates we're talking about, as long as it's full framerate (e.g. 75fps@75Hz).

2. There is no other artifacts. It has far less artifacts than the best plasma and DLP displays.
No plasma-style contouring. No DLP-style temporal dithering. CRT-clarity motion.

3. Motion blur is a much, much, much, much bigger problem for VR because:
-- Display spans your vision. Bigger FOV = easier to see motion blur.
-- Display is really close to vision. Easier to see motion blur.
-- Head turning creates image panning. Panning is a motion blur problem on many displays.
-- Mere medium speed head turning creates fast panning going at 2000 pixels/second through 4000 pixels/second (more than one screenwidth per second). Amplified motion blur. Ouch.
-- Panning situations occur quite often. You can read this screen even when you rotate your head around. This causes artifacts on displays other than clean artifact-free low-persistence displays such as the DK2. But in real life, you can still read this physical text even when you're rotating/moving/shaking your head around, while reading this text.
-- All the above situations amplify the type of motion blurring seen at www.testufo.com/eyetracking

Yes, the main issue with DK2 is the screendoor effect of the Pentile, but there are zero motion artifacts -- it looks sharp and fast similar to a CRT with no contouring and temporal dithering artifacts or rainbowing. The disappearance of motion blur is massively far by the lesser of evil, since the alternative is massive nausea/dizziness of avoiding high-persistence. On the DK2, trying to read text on walls while shaky or moving head around, is perfectly crisp, smooth, butter, less-nauseating, less-dizzying. From what I saw, motion in the DK2 is "perfect-smooth" zero blur like a butter-smooth Super Mario Brothers panning (while Mario running) on a Nintendo on a CRT -- there's zero motion blur, zero stutter, zero judder -- and you don't have any plasma-like artifacts or DLP-like artifacts at all! (This is assuming the game ran at 75 frames per second, the refresh rate of the low-persistence mode). There was the screendoor, but it paled in comparision to the motion blur being virtually gone (pun intended).

On the Oculus Rift, pans are CRT sharp like Nintendo Super Mario panning, or a 60fps Sega arcade CRT game, or zero-blur sports motion on a CRT -- any blur-free display motion. The Rfit DK2 handles motion better than a plasma and DLP. For motion handling it beats even the good Panasonic plasmas. It's already shown that lower persistence massively more important for the VR use case scenario.

Look at the interviews in places like Popular Mechanics, Palmer (of Oculus) has said:
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Palmer Luckey, of Oculus
"...You couldn’t have a made a low-persistence VR headset five years ago at all and certainly not well. It’s going to be mandatory for a good VR experience going into the future until we can get displays that run so fast that a single full-persistence frame is as short as our low-persistence flash. You’d need to get up to 1000 frames per second to do that. Until we have 1000 Hz displays, 1000 fps rendering, and some hypothetical, crazy video link with hundreds of more bandwidth than HDMI, we’re going to be stuck with other solutions."

To try to reduce 90% persistence via DLP (e.g. ~16.7ms down to ~1.7ms, you will be losing 90% of temporal dithering resolution, creating color artifacting issues. I do not think DLP is the ideal technology for VR, as a result. It's probably perfectly fine for slower VR, but none of the fast-motion VR stuff where you might suddenly turn your head around. One could improve this by using full persistence and temporal dithering over multiple frames with DLP -- which would still improve things. But even just targetting 2ms = 1/500sec persistence = requires 500fps@500Hz in order to avoid impulse-driving techniques. This isn't practical on today's GPUs so "purer" impulse technologies such as CRT or rolling-scan OLED (the tech closest to CRT quality) is currently required to achieve the zero-stutter, zero-blur, zero-contouring, zero-temporals experience (at this time).

Enough said. It was obviously a lot dizzying to be shaking my head around (causing the screen to go wild with panning motion) while wearing the Oculus DK2 -- and I could still read small text on signs on the virtual walls. Imagine continuing to stare at this text while nodding your head left/right fast. You can still read the screen. Now try to do it virtually (with a VR headset), read small text displayed on a wall or similar, while nodding your head left/right very fast (which creates panning back-and-forth). Try that with ANY other virtual reality headset. Ouch. But try it with Oculus Rift DK2, and viola -- it feels far more natural.

there wasn't any judder or motion blur during the framerate-equalling-refreshrate situation (75fps@75Hz). Felt far more immersive, as a result, despite the texture of the screen pixel structure. The lack of VR nausea/dizziness during fast-head-turning -- is something I've never seen before in any virtual reality headset . Something that eliminated the nauseating experience found on other older VR headsets I've tried five and ten years ago.

I have to totally agree with Palmer -- he is right that the elimination of motion blur makes VR far more immersive, because of the bullet points I listed above. Motion blur problem is massively amplified during VR situations, and many companies do not understand this as well as people like Palmer Luckey/John Carmack/Michael Abrash/Myself/Blur Busters.
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post #299 of 349 Old 06-09-2014, 06:12 PM
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Was the image very dim with only 10% illumination time? Guess I'll see for myself at E3 this week. I wasn't all that impressed with the original DK.
The DK2 is much better -- remember to find a system that runs the demos at a full 75fps (framerate-refreshrate synchronized), load something that has high detail textures (such as tiny text on walls, etc), and try flitting your head around, looking at things quickly, etc.
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BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

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post #300 of 349 Old 06-09-2014, 09:45 PM
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1. There's no visible judder at the framerates we're talking about, as long as it's full framerate (e.g. 75fps@75Hz).

..

3. Motion blur is a much, much, much, much bigger problem for VR because:
-- Display spans your vision. Bigger FOV = easier to see motion blur.
-- Display is really close to vision. Easier to see motion blur.
-- Head turning creates image panning. Panning is a motion blur problem on many displays.
-- Mere medium speed head turning creates fast panning going at 2000 pixels/second through 4000 pixels/second (more than one screenwidth per second). Amplified motion blur. Ouch.
..
I have to totally agree with Palmer -- he is right that the elimination of motion blur makes VR far more immersive, because of the bullet points I listed above. Motion blur problem is massively amplified during VR situations, and many companies do not understand this as well as people like Palmer Luckey/John Carmack/Michael Abrash/Myself/Blur Busters.
Surely those points are going to make judder easier to see too. Medium head panning upto 4000 pixels a second - how can udder/strobing not be seen if objects are jumping many pixels each frame? And that's just medium panning not fast panning. Why would they not set the shutter of 7680x4320p UHDTV (or showscan digital 120 fps) to around 1/10th of the capture rate (and make the frame rate no more than 75 fps) if there was no problem with judder/strobing like that? Why are they going for 120 fps and others seeing benefits at 240 fps?

Real life (what virtual reality is trying to re-create) doesn't blank out 9/10ths of the time. Cinema blanked out half the time and they called it the "flicks", because of flicker. Now every thing's going to be blanked out 9/10ths of the time. Everything's going to jump from point to point more instead of moving smoothly. Interviews with the person from Occulus saying how great it is isn''t independent. He's not going to say the new Occulus judders when you move your head. His job is to promote it.

-
Also, maybe this is silly but couldn't you analyse the electrical signal sent to the neck or in certain brain areas instead of /as well as head tracking - or would that be too hard (ie. can they not be interpreted yet)? Couldn't that allow you to do head tracking with less delay?
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