Oculus Rift VR Headsets - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #361 of 428 Old 06-19-2015, 02:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techno...m?ocid=U218DHP

VR is not going to be a niche market like 3D. It's going to be gigantic! And a lot of people predicting negative things for it are going to have to eat very humble crow by 2020...as it begins to reach full stride. IMO it will be 100 times bigger than Home Theater Giant screen viewing. Especially with its convergence with Mobile. Which will give young people a giant screen sense of a solitary space they can carve out at home. And stream whatever they want via Windows 10...Xbox...Tablet...Phone...or something else. It is that aspect of Oculus Rift..HTC Vive...GearVR...Morpheus and a lot of other Johnny come latelys which a lot of people are underestimating IMO. These devices ARE NOT 3D Glasses. No equivalency whatsoever. Instead they bring better than 3D worlds to complete immersive life through whatever VR device one is using. VR will actually make passive 3D happen quicker in the 2D HT world IMO. As many people will yearn for a better and similar immersive experience with their big flat panels and projectors. Again...enter Microsoft with it's looming Hololens technology. I bet Hololens AR actually becomes the pseudo VR solution for HT and Living Rooms all over. Everything in display tech, computer tech and etc are rapidly converging around the enormous potential of a future dominant VR/AR marketplace. Those who refuse to see this happening are being just as obtuse as the VHS crowd who eschewed Digital Media. OLED...FALD...Crystal LED...HDR...Color Gamut...Ultra HD...8K x4k...and all of the other buzzwords we routinely use mean NOTHING in the Broader marketplace. VR & AR will compile the benefits of them all in two simple letters for the marketplace to accept or reject. MY bet is universal acceptance by 2020!

If anything the world has shown is people don't like wearing glasses, many will just get contact even though many experience dry eyes and blurred vision with contacts compared to glasses. Or they'll even spent thousands of dollars to get lasik surgery, acknowledging the risks that it has of causing permanent dry eye and halos.

No one liked wearing glasses in 3-d, even the non active sets with the super lightweight battery-less versions.

Virtual Reality will never take off for anyone other than enthusiasts. Your best hope, is the technology google glass uses with projecting an image into a retina. That way you can experience VR, without any glasses at all.
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Last edited by Chase Payne; 06-19-2015 at 02:28 AM.
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post #362 of 428 Old 06-19-2015, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chase Payne View Post
If anything the world has shown is people don't like wearing glasses, many will just get contact even though many experience dry eyes and blurred vision with contacts compared to glasses. Or they'll even spent thousands of dollars to get lasik surgery, acknowledging the risks that it has of causing permanent dry eye and halos.

No one liked wearing glasses in 3-d, even the non active sets with the super lightweight battery-less versions.

Virtual Reality will never take off for anyone other than enthusiasts. Your best hope, is the technology google glass uses with projecting an image into a retina. That way you can experience VR, without any glasses at all.

What the world has shown is that people will readily wear glasses and like them if there is a reason to. To the tune of billions of pairs of glasses sold annually. Have people stopped buying and wearing sunglasses? Goggles to ski or race in? Helmets to ride bicycles or motorcycles on?People will buy big bulky or varying degrees of small headphones to listen to music. They will even wear those headphones underneath big garish hats while walking inside or outside, in hot or cold environments, if they like them. People will buy anything, in mass volume, if they like the experience of it! And are persuaded by effective marketing that they must have it! Sometimes something is so game changing that effective marketing is not even required. My guess is that VR is one such thing. Something that will change so many things...in so many areas...that 10 -20 years from now, kids of that generation will look back at you, like you look back, with nostalgia, at people sitting around a radio before TV was invented.


But more to the point...what the world is already learning is that VR is not even about 3D glasses or even glasses in general. Your core premise is wrong. VR is about a completely different kind of HD display. Like a HDTV or monitor. It is a very small and personal display. One that delivers huge screen, immersive experience in a very small head space. Immersive VR content is just one application for this unique display. And it must have the very best display technology and science available to work best. So it is always forward compatible. Once people make that simple observation and assess it or experience it. Even the most obtuse critics get it! Unlike 3D, it's not a 2 piece 3D system with an external display and special glasses.


People make a decision to try it when its available (or not too). The "or not to's" are a very small group even at this early stage of development (almost non existent). They're about the size of a pimple on an elephants butt in the industries that are targeted. Last time I looked everyone I know and read about everywhere want to try it. When VR hits retail it will become one of the most tried new display devices ever in places like Best Buy and etc. My guess is that most who experience it at retail will want to buy one, if the price is not objectionable. Every single industry in the tech sector agrees with that perspective to greater or lesser degrees. And they are rapidly converting resources to exploit its enormous potential (before it's too late). Meaning the barriers to entry go through the roof on a cost basis.


"Virtual Reality will never take off for anyone other than enthusiasts."
Well...what exactly does this statement mean? When practically the whole world that knows about it are super enthusiastic about it. Except those holding on to their "old Grundig radios". Even people who know nothing about it in the mass market get immediately enthusiastic about it, once exposed to it. And I'm talking Mass market. Not the enthusiasts on AVS. It seems like you're too focused on one ingredient in the pie (current enthusiasts) to vision the entire pie...along with the people lining up to eat it! More importantly, there are literally brilliant people involved with VR. Who know how to create the ingredients...pie...and the long lines themselves.


The Google Retina glasses are not the best hope IMO. It is the worst nightmare for VR. Because if it damages retina's and drives people blind...it's game over. VR companies will be very smart to explicitly state up front that their products are not invasive to the retinas. Or many parents won't touch it. Or let their children anywhere near it. I think VR developers are rightly focused on the science that causes nausea. And mitigating it. They should also put much effort from a hardware and software standpoint on creating prompts inside the headsets that stimulate natural "Eye Blinking". Because that's an issue even with 2D games on regular displays, which cause eyestrain, fatigue and use of glasses. It's been proven that people (especially kids) with prolonged exposure to video games, stare too intensely at a screen without blinking. Ditto for people computing at work! The silver lining is with VR displays...this is much more directly solvable than with external displays. Advantage VR headsets! It has the potential to revolutionize the computer display market even more than gaming or HDTV! That won't go unnoticed by parents if the VR Headset, PC computing and game makers embrace this huge potential benefit (Eye Blinking enhancements).


I think the world of "enthusiasts" is much larger than you imagine. Take a stroll through this website...click on Gear VR that will be in Best Buy in September...and tell me what most teens and travelers are going to want this Christmas. This is going nowhere but up and WAY UP!
https://www.oculus.com/en-us/
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Last edited by barrelbelly; 06-19-2015 at 04:31 PM. Reason: Last paragraph
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post #363 of 428 Old 06-19-2015, 02:29 PM
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I wonder if we DK2 owners will be able to replace them with the final versions when it comes out, or at least get a discount!
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post #364 of 428 Old 06-20-2015, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chase Payne View Post
If anything the world has shown is people don't like wearing glasses, many will just get contact even though many experience dry eyes and blurred vision with contacts compared to glasses. Or they'll even spent thousands of dollars to get lasik surgery, acknowledging the risks that it has of causing permanent dry eye and halos.

No one liked wearing glasses in 3-d, even the non active sets with the super lightweight battery-less versions.
I think there's a modicum of truth in this...
Quote:
Virtual Reality will never take off for anyone other than enthusiasts. Your best hope, is the technology google glass uses with projecting an image into a retina. That way you can experience VR, without any glasses at all.
Google Glass doesn't work like this at all, however. Not even slightly. Magic Leap's technology apparently works along these longs, but not Google Glass, which uses a prism and a micro-projector. Glass, in fact, doesn't even put the image in front of your eye, it places it off to the side which means it isn't even an augmented reality solution, let alone virtual reality.
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post #365 of 428 Old 06-28-2015, 09:37 AM
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Fove

Anyone have insight (no pun intended) or info on the Fove product?

http://www.technologyreview.com/news...ust-your-eyes/
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post #366 of 428 Old 06-28-2015, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by alvinmc View Post
Anyone have insight (no pun intended) or info on the Fove product?
http://www.technologyreview.com/news...ust-your-eyes/
I don't really have much to say about it, other than that it's great to see another product which should support the "Lighthouse" tracking system.
This tracking system, used by the HTC Vive, is a far simpler and theoretically more reliable way of handling tracking than using a camera and LEDs.

The Lighthouse tracking system seems like such a better idea than camera-based tracking, that I'm really not sure about buying an Oculus now.
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post #367 of 428 Old 06-28-2015, 02:34 PM
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I guess I never posted my impressions of this year's E3. Compared to what I saw last year (you can find that earlier in this thread), I was still disappointed.

I tested both the Sony and Oculus. I could still see screendoor/graininess on both on brighter colors but it was much less distracting. I could probably live with it if it was the only issue.

I could also still see blurriness, color fringing, and loss of focus at the edges. This I found very annoying and I'm not sure I could tolerate it. As I described last year, it drives me crazy when I change my focus to something at the edge of the FOV but can't get it to focus. This is not how vision behaves in the real-world. I much prefer to move my eyes than having to constantly pan my entire head to keep what I'm interested in at the center of the display. I will say that the chromatic aberration was reduced from last year because of the smaller pixels and better compensation.

Comfort level on the Sony was very bad. I played a game where I had to headbutt objects in the environment. The rapid head movements were causing it to slip off my head. By the end of my session, my face was very sweaty because of the heat trapped under the headset. The Oculus fared much better. It seemed lighter and had a more comfortable fit. I also had zero sweat on my face after the demo - I'm not sure if that was because of a better design or because Oculus cheated by cranking up the AC cooling in their demo booths.

In terms of responsiveness and tracking accuracy, I didn't see much difference between the 2. I did some quick head panning to try to determine if the supposed low-persistence of the Oculus helped with motion blur. While it seemed better than the Sony, it was still blurry compared to a CRT.

The demo sessions were very short and I was only able to test 1 game on each device. The Sony game had you play the role of a monster moving on rails through a city. There was no controller and you simply headbutted enemies to kill them. This game could have just as easily been done on a Kinect and I didn't see much point in the VR. At the Oculus booth I played some third person platformer from Insomniac. It used an xbox controller for movement and jumping. I saw even less point in doing this game in VR since you had to keep looking at your character in order to make precise jumps. VR without a first-person camera makes no sense to me.

Overall, I would not buy this tech in its current form. The games I tested don't really add anything worthwhile to the experience compared to playing on a regular monitor. To the contrary, most games are actually much worse played through the headsets because you have a lower quality display, the graphics options are reduced to maintain high fps, and there's discomfort of wearing this gear on your face. Will consumers accept these trade-offs? Only time will tell. I remain very skeptical based on the many demos I've seen over the years.

Edit:
This article shows exactly what I'm talking about regarding the poor focus on the Oculus.

Last edited by Wizziwig; 07-04-2015 at 12:34 AM.
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post #368 of 428 Old 12-24-2015, 10:24 PM
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I have been enjoying the Samsung Gear VR powered by Oculus for a week now. I am blown away with the potential. It's more than just a virtual reality set. The Internet feature works quite well and the virtual theater is absolutely amazing. It's just so much potential.
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post #369 of 428 Old 12-25-2015, 01:56 AM
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Does VRCinema have the potential to basicly destroy large TV's ie. you'd rather watch movie on the headset with 100% darkness around the screen instead of 65inch OLED?
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post #370 of 428 Old 12-25-2015, 06:58 AM
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I can't comment too much on OLED flat panels but I have own a projector since 2009. I value PQ and have kept a JVC for 5 years in my set up. My 120in is not a match for the simulated theater in the VR. The PQ is not up to par yet, but I do find enjoyment in it. I have watched 2D and 3D in the theater and the 3D is perfect. No brightness restrictions or ghosting, just perfect. Its pixelated with the Gear VR but not too much to ruin the experience. The Oculus Rift due in a few months should handle the pixels seen much better, but not perfect I'm guessing. As soon as the PQ gets up to 1080p per eye without seeing pixels, it should be amazing. The Gear VR headset is not heavy on my head, but it could be a little more comfortable. For 45min, I don't have a problem but after that, it does get a little bothersome. I'm hoping that the Rift is more comfortable with less pixels when watching 3D movies. I'm hoping that 3D doesn't die out any time soon because it gives you the best experience in the VR theater. A 30ft wide screen with perfect 3D without brightness restrictions is what got me hooked on VR. It will not replace a family environment of course, but usually I am the only one watching my HT. So, I rather sit in my comfortable living room or my bedroom with a my set of headphones in a cinema by myself watching a 2D/3D movie on a 30ft+ wide screen over sitting in my dark HT on a 9ft wide screen. Either way 95% of the time I am by myself. The Rift is only going to cost $350 with 1080x1200 per eye, but I am will to pay a few thousands for a UHD version. I can only imagine that image
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post #371 of 428 Old 12-25-2015, 01:08 PM
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but I am will to pay a few thousands for a UHD version. I can only imagine that image
http://www.roadtovr.com/emagin-annou...g-at-awe-2015/
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post #372 of 428 Old 12-25-2015, 04:46 PM
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I wonder how the VR cinema looks on that brand and when it's being released. I have looked at other VR sets and the competition should be great.
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post #373 of 428 Old 12-26-2015, 02:46 AM
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MTBS-TV: Interview With eMagin
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post #374 of 428 Old 12-27-2015, 10:23 AM
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Good video but the price is unknown and looks to be in the 10K+ range
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post #375 of 428 Old 12-27-2015, 11:26 AM
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I have the Sony Hmz-T3 and love it. I also feel that for the immersion factor, it destroys a projector in many ways. But since it's 720p per eye, I can't help but think how awesome it would be with better optics and 1080p per eye. This eMagine product sounds to be just that.
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post #376 of 428 Old 12-28-2015, 10:09 AM
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I have the Sony Hmz-T3 and love it. I also feel that for the immersion factor, it destroys a projector in many ways. But since it's 720p per eye, I can't help but think how awesome it would be with better optics and 1080p per eye. This eMagine product sounds to be just that.
I haven't watched my projector in 2 weeks. I'm not really a gamer, so I can't be too excited about those features. But the virtual theater is amazing. I'm literally watching a movie in a 50ft wide theater. However, the resolution and fill factor must improve. With phones having more and more resolution each year, I'm sure we will get there soon. My edge plus is 1440p and the new Sony phone has a 4k screen. I'm sure by 2017 we will have an 8k phone to purchase. With so many different VR products to choose from, we will have an option for this. Hopefully, someone will make a 3-4in lightweight 8k phone to fit into a comfortable, smaller VR headset.
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post #377 of 428 Old 12-28-2015, 12:59 PM
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I wonder what the fill factor is on the phone you're using. The guy on the video mentioned that phones are generally in the 30% range. The displays they use are more in the 70%+ range. Not too mention that a lot of pixels are wasted with the phones in the gear vr since they are just blacked out. So maybe Oculus cv1 will be a nice step up.
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post #378 of 428 Old 12-28-2015, 02:52 PM
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I wonder what the fill factor is on the phone you're using. The guy on the video mentioned that phones are generally in the 30% range. The displays they use are more in the 70%+ range. Not too mention that a lot of pixels are wasted with the phones in the gear vr since they are just blacked out. So maybe Oculus cv1 will be a nice step up.
I'm hoping the Rift will be noticeably better with the fill factor. I'll be getting one. Hoping VR will improve each year, which they should.
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post #379 of 428 Old 12-28-2015, 07:09 PM
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I haven't watched my projector in 2 weeks. I'm not really a gamer, so I can't be too excited about those features. But the virtual theater is amazing. I'm literally watching a movie in a 50ft wide theater
You're literally not watching a movie in a 50-foot wide theater unless you're literally in a 50-foot wide theater. K?

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post #380 of 428 Old 12-28-2015, 07:11 PM
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I should add that head-mounted video is going to advance at a rate that is hard to fathom in the coming 5-10 years. That can't really be good news for home-theater projection, especially with 100-inch flat panels becoming real/affordable by decade's end.

#bearishonprojectors
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post #381 of 428 Old 12-28-2015, 07:16 PM
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You're literally not watching a movie in a 50-foot wide theater unless you're literally in a 50-foot wide theater. K?
C'mon man!!!!
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post #382 of 428 Old 12-28-2015, 08:28 PM
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You're literally not watching a movie in a 50-foot wide theater unless you're literally in a 50-foot wide theater. K?
Nah, those days are over. Common usage (AKA known as "The @#$%ing Curse" to TGM1024) has now moved the lesser definition of "literally" into dictionaries. It now can mean virtually, or be merely used for emphasis.

Here's the MW take: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally

BTW, with "literally" I'm ok with the common usage changes, but there are many things bugging me that's accepted. "Orientate" is now a word as well in most dictionaries, and has been for at least 25 years. That one is literally driving me nuts.

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post #383 of 428 Old 12-28-2015, 11:19 PM
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I'm literally not OK with accepting meanings that are literally the opposite of what words mean.

I'm literally OK with nearly all other evolution of the language, e.g. "on accident" where "by accident" was the expression for eons. I'm literally even OK with "on fleek".

But I figuratively draw the line at using literally to mean "not literally".
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post #384 of 428 Old 12-29-2015, 02:56 AM
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Let's now stay on topic and not clutter this thread with an English lesson, if anyone has another problem with word definitions, please pm that person with your concerns. Thank you.
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post #385 of 428 Old 12-29-2015, 09:40 AM
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Let's now stay on topic and not clutter this thread with an English lesson, if anyone has another problem with word definitions, please pm that person with your concerns. Thank you.
Please capitalize "PM".
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post #386 of 428 Old 12-29-2015, 11:45 AM
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The Metaverse is here...

I too have the gear VR and it is astoundingly good for a mere $99. I agree there is much to be done in the way of SDE/fill factor, heat emission, battery life etc. but the potential is just massive. I will say its not entirely comfortable for me to watch a full length film on it at the moment, the screen gives off too much heat and I definitely feel eye strain (?) after a few hours (not to mention that the quality just isn't really there yet, particularly if you are used to high end displays), but it is quite stunning how far we have come in such a short amount of time. I cannot wait to get the VIVE and CV1 at launch but I do long for a time when we can commission a high end custom HMD to go with your build...

Personally, I can absolutely see this tech taking market share from traditional 2D displays. Once they sort out a few of the issues they have I can see them immediately taking a meaningful percentage (of casual viewers to start with) of first time buyers away from traditional display makers. I have 4 kids, 3 of which are boys ranging from ages 3 to 7. I have a very good dedicated setup for console gaming (88" Samsung JS9500 with 7.1 surround sound set up in a light controlled dedicated space with both consoles - all in cost very expensive...) and all they really want to do is play with the gear VR (all in cost $950 if you include the unsubsidized full retail cost of the phone). Granted its new and different but I don't think that's all, I think they (like me to be honest) find it to be a much more compelling form of entertainment/interaction than a 2D screen regardless of how good or large that screen is. The first thing my 7 year old asked me was if he could talk to other people on it (see you on planet Facebook per that article from the Verge). I do not see him ever spending the kind of money I have over the years on any 2D screen that is so much less immersive than a HMD. I don't think that 2D displays will disappear (in the next 18 months...) but why have one if you have something that is vastly superior in terms of entertainment enjoyment / dollars spent? AVSers and such will always exist but I find it hard to believe that over the next few years any casual buyer will not at least have both (one being a very basic 2D screen), if not choose a HMD over a relatively expensive and cumbersome 2D display.
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post #387 of 428 Old 12-29-2015, 12:56 PM
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Whether we like it or not VR is going to change the way we see and interact with our world -- and who knows maybe our world will be a virtual one. Does it scare me? Somewhat, but it's the path we're on.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/thenational/t...lity-1.3383394
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post #388 of 428 Old 12-29-2015, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post
Let's now stay on topic and not clutter this thread with an English lesson, if anyone has another problem with word definitions, please pm that person with your concerns. Thank you.
Let's not clutter this thread with a lecture on what is relevant to discuss. If anyone has a question about what words mean, please use a decent dictionary or send me a private message.

Thank you and Happy New Year.

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post #389 of 428 Old 12-29-2015, 01:48 PM
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An old Magic Leap pitch deck attempts to communicate the potential of virtual worlds and technologies...

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/cho...45907_1_.0.pdf
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post #390 of 428 Old 12-29-2015, 03:13 PM
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First hand account of closest version yet to CV1:

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comm...7_and_here_is/
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