2013 VE Annual Flat Panel HDTV Shootout dates have been announced - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 231 Old 05-16-2013, 02:30 PM
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Is there a reason that they don't do a double-blind test? Have the whole display covered as to not be able to tell the manufacturer or type. Not that they wouldn't be able to tell the LCD's from Plasmas, but it would take some subconscious bias out of the equation. Not saying there was any bias, just saying.........

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post #212 of 231 Old 05-16-2013, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Which ones in a videophile environment would be the best?

plasmas are the choice of most videophiles......
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post #213 of 231 Old 05-17-2013, 04:44 AM
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Calibration reports finally came in, but what I was really hoping for was contrast ratio data like they did last year. We already know the numbers for the Panasonic, but I really wanted to see the F8500's ANSI black measurement. (not MLL, I already know it's 0.0018fL from the one from the Shootout) If anyone knows where I can get it, please let me know, I'd be grateful.
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post #214 of 231 Old 05-17-2013, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Calibration reports finally came in, but what I was really hoping for was contrast ratio data like they did last year. We already know the numbers for the Panasonic, but I really wanted to see the F8500's ANSI black measurement. (not MLL, I already know it's 0.0018fL from the one from the Shootout) If anyone knows where I can get it, please let me know, I'd be grateful.

What did the F8500 do in terms of peak luminance? Assuming it held that black level in ANSI, you could just divide the two. For example, if it was 65 ft/L, it's ANSI is 36K:1.

The Panasonic numbers HD Guru got were better than that, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Samsung in that ballpark. The Panasonic does a black level that's ~1/3 better, but the Samsung does a white level that's ~1/4 to ~1/2 better...

One point I'd like to make is I believe both of them produce ANSI above the limits of human visual perception.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #215 of 231 Old 05-17-2013, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

What did the F8500 do in terms of peak luminance? Assuming it held that black level in ANSI, you could just divide the two. For example, if it was 65 ft/L, it's ANSI is 36K:1.

The Panasonic numbers HD Guru got were better than that, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Samsung in that ballpark. The Panasonic does a black level that's ~1/3 better, but the Samsung does a white level that's ~1/4 to ~1/2 better...

One point I'd like to make is I believe both of them produce ANSI above the limits of human visual perception.

The numbers from HDGuru were in different modes, if we went off the Shootout I believe the following would be the numbers released:

ZT60
Day\Night
Peak: 30ftL
MLL .0013
Contrast on\off: ~23076

VT60:
Day\Night
Peak:35ftL
MLL: .0013
Contrast on\off ~26923

F8500:
Day
56?ftL
MLL .0018
Contrast on\off: ~31111

Night:
40ftL
MLL:.0018
Contrast on\off: ~22222

This is if the MLL and peak luminance values are correct however, if they are not then these numbers would not be correct.....
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post #216 of 231 Old 05-17-2013, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indyfred View Post

Is there a reason that they don't do a double-blind test? Have the whole display covered as to not be able to tell the manufacturer or type. Not that they wouldn't be able to tell the LCD's from Plasmas, but it would take some subconscious bias out of the equation. Not saying there was any bias, just saying.........

Its been suggested, maybe we will see it next year smile.gif

this would only work for the audiencce as the calibrators would know which set it which.....
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post #217 of 231 Old 05-17-2013, 08:01 PM
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Watched several Blu-rays at Magnolia tonight
That were hooked to both a Samsung F8500
And a Panasonic VT60. The Samsung was brighter, but motion resolution was better on the Panasonic, as was shadow detail, and color accuracy. My wife and I watched scene after scene and for us the Panasonic seemed better overall to us. Only if you had a bright room Would We pick the Samsung. So we are going to buy either a VT60 or ZT60.
Both the Panasonic & Samsung HDTVs are great. But Panasonic fit what we wanted.
I am sure many can be very happy with the Samsung too. Nice to have both to chose from!
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post #218 of 231 Old 05-18-2013, 04:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

Watched several Blu-rays at Magnolia tonight
That were hooked to both a Samsung F8500
And a Panasonic VT60. The Samsung was brighter, but motion resolution was better on the Panasonic, as was shadow detail, and color accuracy. My wife and I watched scene after scene and for us the Panasonic seemed better overall to us. Only if you had a bright room Would We pick the Samsung. So we are going to buy either a VT60 or ZT60.
Both the Panasonic & Samsung HDTVs are great. But Panasonic fit what we wanted.
I am sure many can be very happy with the Samsung too. Nice to have both to chose from!
And were they both properly calibrated?


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post #219 of 231 Old 05-18-2013, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

Watched several Blu-rays at Magnolia tonight
That were hooked to both a Samsung F8500
And a Panasonic VT60. The Samsung was brighter, but motion resolution was better on the Panasonic, as was shadow detail, and color accuracy. My wife and I watched scene after scene and for us the Panasonic seemed better overall to us. Only if you had a bright room Would We pick the Samsung. So we are going to buy either a VT60 or ZT60.
Both the Panasonic & Samsung HDTVs are great. But Panasonic fit what we wanted.
I am sure many can be very happy with the Samsung too. Nice to have both to chose from!

I think this is right for almost everyone: Pick which attributes you value most between the brightness and the other subtle picture-quality things (perhaps the ZT filter, perhaps one's perception of how motion looks, whatever you care about). And then select from one of those choices... If your budget is really tight, don't forget the ST60, too.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #220 of 231 Old 05-18-2013, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

And were they both properly calibrated?

His calibrator wasn't available that day to do an in store test calibration biggrin.gif

I'm sure they did the best they could to do a compare.

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post #221 of 231 Old 05-19-2013, 07:18 AM
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Best Buy's Magnolia tv's are not calibrated..and if they ever were..you know the kind of work the Geek Squad does
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post #222 of 231 Old 05-19-2013, 08:08 AM
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Is the ST60 brighter than the VT 60 and the ZT60 and if so by how much?
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post #223 of 231 Old 05-19-2013, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

Best Buy's Magnolia tv's are not calibrated..and if they ever were..you know the kind of work the Geek Squad does
I was quite sure they weren't, and if they were I wouldnt expect much. Jus tutting that out there in regarsa to what the poster was seeing and comparing.


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post #224 of 231 Old 05-19-2013, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Is the ST60 brighter than the VT 60 and the ZT60 and if so by how much?

Seems like it can be made considerably brighter, but the other issue is the lack of an effective ambient light filter that the VT60 and ZT60 have. So although you can make the ST60 brighter you can't avoid the reduction of the black level in daytime use.
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post #225 of 231 Old 05-19-2013, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Something to keep in mind.....the calibrators didn't calibrate custom mode on the VT60 and ZT60. It's quite possible the custom mode might ave higher light output.


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post #226 of 231 Old 05-21-2013, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Something to keep in mind.....the calibrators didn't calibrate custom mode on the VT60 and ZT60. It's quite possible the custom mode might ave higher light output.
I don't think it does. Certainly not on the units I've tried out. If we'd found that it could go higher, we'd have calibrated it.

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post #227 of 231 Old 05-22-2013, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't think it does. Certainly not on the units I've tried out. If we'd found that it could go higher, we'd have calibrated it.
When I spoke with DeWayne, he said you guys didn't have time to test the other modes at the shootout. Perhaps that was misinformation.


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post #228 of 231 Old 05-24-2013, 07:24 AM
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2013 VE HDTV Shootout





Opening
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqTlDmHjaR0



Contrast Ratio by Kevin Miller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMD8cy3SuOI

Color by Kevin Miller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNeJUcYqx64

Color Tracking by DeWayne Davis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kum50MgA84I



Equipment Use and Day Mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMfTiG2lcC4


2013 Models vs. Pioneer KRP-500M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvJ-VEueE8k

Panasonic WT60, VT60 & ZT60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8zwMKoCQv8

Panasonic VT60 vs. ZT60 Recap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNRNuX7zL2U

Samsung F8500 Plasma & F800 LED LCd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QkNXZctqIk


Dr. Larry Weber
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcN-0L_7Bwo



Closing
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post #229 of 231 Old 05-24-2013, 09:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

2013 VE HDTV Shootout





Opening
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqTlDmHjaR0



Contrast Ratio by Kevin Miller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMD8cy3SuOI

Color by Kevin Miller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNeJUcYqx64

Color Tracking by DeWayne Davis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kum50MgA84I



Equipment Use and Day Mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMfTiG2lcC4


2013 Models vs. Pioneer KRP-500M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvJ-VEueE8k

Panasonic WT60, VT60 & ZT60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8zwMKoCQv8

Panasonic VT60 vs. ZT60 Recap
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNRNuX7zL2U

Samsung F8500 Plasma & F800 LED LCd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QkNXZctqIk


Dr. Larry Weber
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcN-0L_7Bwo



Closing

who are those guys?
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post #230 of 231 Old 05-24-2013, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 
who are those guys?






Kevin Miller TWEAKTV / aka Monitorman (AVS)
David Mackenzie hdtvtestUK / aka Lyris (AVS)
Dewayne Davis / aka D-Nice (AVS)

Robert Zohn VE owner
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post #231 of 231 Old 05-30-2013, 10:28 AM
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Is it true that these guys were born being able to distinguish the difference in blackness between a calibrated Pioneer Kuro and a black hole? Is there really a difference? Is it true that black holes are actually a lighter shade of black?

Is it true that OLEDs are blacker but that they reside in a hypothetical universe that can never happen?

Seems like it was only yesterday that we waited with baited breath for the greatest something that turned into nothing.

With full array backlighting dead will LCD EVER improve again in the future?
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