Trying to get a handle on the sales trends over the year.... - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-27-2013, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,866
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Liked: 946
I'm trying to figure out what the sales pattern is for any given year. Even relative to the model release.

Note: this is a lot more difficult than it seems because many advertised sales are for blow-outs of prior year models.

Also, does the latest UPP craze mess this up?

And given that models are released at varying times during the year, I've noticed using camelcamelcamel that the big name brands tend to keep the prices of their new higher end sets static for roughly a month and a half. Or so it seems.

Is there any pattern than anyone has recognized (besides the obvious Black Friday/Christmas stuff)?

Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
tgm1024 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-27-2013, 01:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Steve S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fresno CA
Posts: 5,356
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 46
You've already got somewhat of a handle on it, at least with regard to high-end models. Newly released models do stay high for the first month or two, then drop a couple of hundred. Usually there's another price drop anywhere from halfway to 3/4 of the way into the model year. Once replacement models are available for sale, leftover previous year premium sets will take a more siginificant drop- the longer these old sets remain in inventory the cheaper they get. Eventually lefover stock must be returned to the vendor, at which point they can be ridiculously cheap. This isn't happening as much now as in previous years as retailers have pretty much stopped over-ordering premium sets and mfgs. have quiit overproducing them. They realize that in today's economy the demand for premium sets is very low. That's why everybody ran out of VT series Panny plasmas long before ST series sets.

In my experience selling sets over the last 6 years or so the Black Friday "savings" no longer are to be had on higher end sets--instead there will be a combination of really cheap off-brand sets and some de-contented models from "name" brands, most specifically Samsung, that we call BF specials--usually misssing a few inputs and otherwise cheapenned. I have actually seen prices lower in the weeks leading up to BF on high end models than they are during the feeding frenzy. Retailers know that there are a large number of customers who automatically assume the prices on everything will be at the lowest for BF and won't shop any other time so they will sometimes hike prices on premium sets to take advantage of bargain hunters who don't do their research. Also be aware that many BM retailers suspend price matching during the BF weekend.

UPP is MAP (minimum advertised price) with teeth. Under MAP retailers weren't allowed to advertise prices below a certain point established by the mfg., hence the "go to cart to see price" noifications on websites, but were still free to discount below that price. With UPP the mfg. will penalize retailers for discounting below that level--under UPP store managers don't have the discretion to discount on an individual basis. A mfg. could cut off stock to violators of the UPP. Discounts are still be had from some E-tailers not using convdentional sourcing.

A lot of people are under he impression that prices drop after Christmas--in my experience they actually go up and availability stinks.

If you're looking at low/midrange sets the discounts come faster and usually within a few weeks the incoming model is as cheap as the outgoing model was at the end of it's product cycle. For example, the 2012 model Sharp 60" 640 series ended up at $1199 vs 1499 at introcuction last spring. The 2013 650 debuted at 1400ish a few weeks ago but already has dropped to that 1199 price point. I'm seeing the same trend with 6000 and low-7000 series Samsungs. At the high end the 55" ES8000 ended up at about 2399, a new 55EF8000 is still 2700ish.

My observations apply to prices at BM stores (we have access to BBs website at work for price matching purposes and their trends are the same as ours) not necessarily online pricing.

Edit--55F8000 dropped $200 yesterday 4/28. This is a little early for the first price drop.

Steve S.
Steve S is offline  
Old 05-05-2013, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,866
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Liked: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

55F8000 dropped $200 yesterday 4/28. This is a little early for the first price drop.

Well, {chuckle}, my Sony 60R550A will show up on monday. Predictions on how many minutes before the first price drop?

Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
tgm1024 is online now  
Old 05-05-2013, 01:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Steve S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fresno CA
Posts: 5,356
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Off the wall and purely based on previous experience with Sony low to midrange sets--anywhere from 3 weeks to a month and a half. Should be a solid performer for it's price point, hope you enjoy it in spite of that LG panel:)

Steve S.
Steve S is offline  
Old 05-05-2013, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,866
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Liked: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Off the wall and purely based on previous experience with Sony low to midrange sets--anywhere from 3 weeks to a month and a half. Should be a solid performer for it's price point, hope you enjoy it in spite of that LG panel:)

Point well taken. You've apparently seen my flood of concern of this.

{holding my breath}

In any case, it's interesting. If (knock on wood) the trickling in reporting trends continue (and I'm referring to a really small handful of folks to date), then the 2013 LG panels used by Sony will exhibit no bleed, but the 2013 LG panels used by LG will. Absolutely no one yet knows WHAT is meant by the phrase "Sony is using LG panels" (does that or does that not include the LEDs and light-guides?---other threads for that), so I've got my fingers crossed.

Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
tgm1024 is online now  
Old 05-06-2013, 11:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Steve S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fresno CA
Posts: 5,356
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Going strictly by what I read hereabouts Sonys in general have done better than Samsung and LG as far as flashlighting etc.

From my own personal experience I had a Sony EX-710 that could have been the poster child for edge bleed--the entire right edge extending in for about a foot was severely washed out unless watched from a position about 10 degrees right of center. I put up with if for a little over a year and bought one of those dreaded 2012 LGs, a 47LM6400. My particular LG has virtually no edge bleed or clouding and excels at skintones just like most Sonys.

More recently we purchased a Sony R450 low end 40" direct lit set for the living room (had to fit in a 37" wide cabinet). The Sony is flawless as far as screen uniformity and has very good black levels for a non-videophile set. It does have relatively poor off-angle performance compared to the LG but that's not a problem with our particular seating arrangement. One little bonus is pretty decent sound quality for a flat panel set. If the 550 is as good I think you're in for a treat.

Steve S.
Steve S is offline  
Old 05-06-2013, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,866
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Liked: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

Going strictly by what I read hereabouts Sonys in general have done better than Samsung and LG as far as flashlighting etc.

From my own personal experience I had a Sony EX-710 that could have been the poster child for edge bleed--the entire right edge extending in for about a foot was severely washed out unless watched from a position about 10 degrees right of center. I put up with if for a little over a year and bought one of those dreaded 2012 LGs, a 47LM6400. My particular LG has virtually no edge bleed or clouding and excels at skintones just like most Sonys.

More recently we purchased a Sony R450 low end 40" direct lit set for the living room (had to fit in a 37" wide cabinet). The Sony is flawless as far as screen uniformity and has very good black levels for a non-videophile set. It does have relatively poor off-angle performance compared to the LG but that's not a problem with our particular seating arrangement. One little bonus is pretty decent sound quality for a flat panel set. If the 550 is as good I think you're in for a treat.

I notice though that this year for their low end sets they go out of their way to avoid the term "full array" and use "Direct LED". What do you suppose this is----the single line of LEDs in the middle of the screen I've heard others do in the past?

Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
tgm1024 is online now  
Old 05-06-2013, 02:31 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Stop making curved screens
Posts: 30,408
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked: 632
Direct LED is a lot like "full array" but there's a big difference tgm.

In what we all think of as full array, a fairly substantial number of LEDs are very, very close to the screen providing illumination. There is diffusion of light going on (obviously) to maintain uniformity, but the amount of LEDs is high.

In direct LED, there is intentionally a gap between the LEDs and the screen -- much greater than in full array. A substantially smaller number of higher-output LEDs are used and very actively diffused to illuminate the screen. A direct LED is a lot like an old CCFL set where the CCFLs are replaced by LED light sources. It's also cheap to make.

A full array set -- because of the reliance on many more LEDs -- is more expensive than a "direct LED" set. It can be made much thinner (although not as thin as edge lit typically) than a direct LED set, but at a price.

Incidentally, you could locally dim a direct LED set too. It'd be better than the bogus edge-lit "local dimming" sets. But given that direct LED is about low cost, I doubt we'll see much (any?) of that ever happening.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
rogo is offline  
Old 05-06-2013, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
tgm1024's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,866
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Liked: 946
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Direct LED is a lot like "full array" but there's a big difference tgm.

In what we all think of as full array, a fairly substantial number of LEDs are very, very close to the screen providing illumination. There is diffusion of light going on (obviously) to maintain uniformity, but the amount of LEDs is high.

In direct LED, there is intentionally a gap between the LEDs and the screen -- much greater than in full array. A substantially smaller number of higher-output LEDs are used and very actively diffused to illuminate the screen. A direct LED is a lot like an old CCFL set where the CCFLs are replaced by LED light sources. It's also cheap to make.

A full array set -- because of the reliance on many more LEDs -- is more expensive than a "direct LED" set. It can be made much thinner (although not as thin as edge lit typically) than a direct LED set, but at a price.

Incidentally, you could locally dim a direct LED set too. It'd be better than the bogus edge-lit "local dimming" sets. But given that direct LED is about low cost, I doubt we'll see much (any?) of that ever happening.

Ah ok. Thanks!

Java developers, when I saw what has been placed into Java 8 I was immediately reminded of how I've spent so much of my life trying to protect engineers from themselves. Lambda expressions are a horrible idea. Gentlemen: the goal isn't to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer. The goal is to make code readable for a competent mid-level engineer exhausted and hopped up on caffeine at 3 am. What a disaster Java 8 is!
tgm1024 is online now  
 

Tags
Sharp Aquos Lc60le640u 60 Inch Led Hdtv , Samsung Un55es8000 55 Inch 1080p 240 Hz 3d Slim Led Hdtv , Sony Kdl 60r550a 60 Inch 120hz 1080p Led Hdtv Black
Gear in this thread
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off