Need some opinions (new set/PS4) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 06-23-2013, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm highly anticipating the new PS4 and I need a new TV for it. My old XBR1 SXRD has a general greenness to it that popped up a month or so ago (not the blob issue, but an all over green tint that cant be adjusted). That being said, I can spend 3000 on a new TV in the next month or so. I want 55", dependable, 1080p, and great picture quality. I don't care about if its a smart TV. I think I prefer LCD/LED, but if something else is better, I'll listen!

I've been out of the HT game since I got involved in being in a band, so I'm way outta the loop!

Thanks in advance, and please be gentle.
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post #2 of 30 Old 06-23-2013, 10:37 AM
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I'm also pretty excited to get the PS4, my recommendations are if you want the best picture quality go for Plasma. Look for the Panasonic VT60 for best pic quality in your price range but the panasonic S60 is cheaper and has even better input lag. Another option is the Samsung f8500 but its out of your price range, has excellent pic quality but a little high on input lag. Another option which would be the best for gaming but not the best in picture quality is the Sony KDL- 55W802A .It has the best input lag of 16.9. LCD is good for most people but if your a videophile person that wants the best pic quality,than plasma is the way to go. Just some options, good luck.

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post #3 of 30 Old 06-23-2013, 12:02 PM
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Sony's latest LCDs have the lowest latency of any television measured with the Leo Bodnar lag tester so far. It's a no brainer - go for the Sony W8.
Plasmas are not suitable for gaming due to image retention/burn-in from the static HUD elements, crosshairs etc.

And in my opinion, Plasmas are only better than Edge LED sets when it comes to black levels, image quality is far better on LED sets.
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post #4 of 30 Old 06-23-2013, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post


And in my opinion, Plasmas are only better than Edge LED sets when it comes to black levels, image quality is far better on LED sets.

High end plasmas are better than any LCD/LED in every aspect not only black levels. The only one that could compete was the Sharp Elite. Plasma has won best display of the year for the past 2 years. As far as image quality far better ..lol , well if you like an over saturated color, fake looking soap opera image with motion blur and clouding and flashlighting,than that's your opinion. Seriously Paul if you are a heavy gamer go for the Sony, if not I would go Plasma. It's totally up to you, just go to the store and check them out.

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post #5 of 30 Old 06-24-2013, 03:42 AM - Thread Starter
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The W8 looks pretty good! I can mount it too. Thanks for giving me a start, fellas!! Would you recommend the KDL55W900A over the W8?
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post #6 of 30 Old 06-24-2013, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Scharlau View Post

The W8 looks pretty good! I can mount it too. Thanks for giving me a start, fellas!! Would you recommend the KDL55W900A over the W8?

The 900a is a better TV but comes with a hefty price tag. If you can afford it than go for it.

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post #7 of 30 Old 06-24-2013, 03:17 PM
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Have there been latency tests done on the W9? It's not safe to assume that because it's a higher end model in the same line-up, that latency will be the same.
If you plan on using 3D at all, the W8 is passive, and the W9 is active. In my opinion all 3DTV is pretty bad right now, but passive is easier on the eyes than active.
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over saturated color
Calibration issue. Sony's sets are almost completely calibrated as soon as you put them in the movie mode.
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fake looking soap opera image
Turn off interpolation. Sony's MotionFlow generally avoids the sped-up look though, and simply improves motion resolution and smoothness of panning shots.
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motion blur
Sony's LED sets have less motion blur than Plasmas in their impulse modes, and lightboost LED sets have the best motion handling of any display that is available today.
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clouding and flashlighting
Only applies to Edge LED sets, and not all edge LED sets have this issue. IPS panels do not suffer from clouding, that's typically restricted to Samsung panels.
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post #8 of 30 Old 06-24-2013, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post


Sony's LED sets have less motion blur than Plasmas in their impulse modes, and lightboost LED sets have the best motion handling of any display that is available today.
.

Which sony models? Can you post this in the plasma section with a link of proof. I would like to hear other people's view on this, I'm really interested where you got this information from. A friend of mine has a 2013 Sony , can't remember which model and the viewing angle was horrendous and the motion blur wasn't what you are describing, it was pretty noticeable in sports.

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post #9 of 30 Old 06-24-2013, 10:06 PM
 
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Don't waste your time, Latino. Chrono pretends the shootout doesn't exist (or, even more probable, that it's plasma-biased). One can look at the (albeit subjective) ratings at the shootout and see that the 4k panel (a hallowed Sony) lagged in most PQ parameters.
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post #10 of 30 Old 06-24-2013, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

Which sony models? Can you post this in the plasma section with a link of proof. I would like to hear other people's view on this, I'm really interested where you got this information from. A friend of mine has a 2013 Sony , can't remember which model and the viewing angle was horrendous and the motion blur wasn't what you are describing, it was pretty noticeable in sports.
I think the impulse modes were introduced in 2011. Check the motion blur topic for information on this subject: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1433254/lcd-motion-blur-eye-tracking-now-dominant-cause-of-motion-blur-not-pixel-persistence/0_100
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post #11 of 30 Old 06-25-2013, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Don't waste your time, Latino. Chrono pretends the shootout doesn't exist (or, even more probable, that it's plasma-biased). One can look at the (albeit subjective) ratings at the shootout and see that the 4k panel (a hallowed Sony) lagged in most PQ parameters.

Yes, and you pretend that dithering, aggressive ABL, and phosphor lag don't exist on plasma displays... especially your beloved kuro! ;p. Go fish!
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post #12 of 30 Old 06-25-2013, 12:39 PM
 
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I will let you know as soon as that dithering is visible from any typical seating difference, same with this "aggressive" ABL or the nonexistent phosphor lag. All of these inherent problems are detected by less than 5% of the viewing population. So few viewed them as problematic that plasma was still the more desirable technology at the inconvenient shootout last month.
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post #13 of 30 Old 06-25-2013, 06:10 PM
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I will let you know as soon as that dithering is visible from any typical seating difference
I assume you won't be buying a 4K set then, as you are not sitting close enough to resolve 1080p.
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same with this "aggressive" ABL
And that you don't play games or watch animated content...
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nonexistent phosphor lag.
I wouldn't take your word about motion blur either, if you can't spot that.
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post #14 of 30 Old 06-25-2013, 06:55 PM
 
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1) Yes, I am. 6 feet out on a 50% panel is close enough to resolve 1080p. Besides, I have a 65" panel now, and 9 to 10 feet is sufficient to resolve 1080p. Finally, 4k content is few and far between, and I have never cared for the Band-Aid that is upscaling. I would never, ever return to the world of LCD as long as edgelit was the extent of what one could buy at a reasonable cost.
2) I no longer play games, but I do watch the occasional animation. I struggle adeptly to be bothered by any perception of ABL.
3) Whether or not you care to admit it, the percentage susceptible to noticeable phosphor lag is in the single digits. Let's not kid ourselves by insinuating that LCD is the king of motion resolution either. They've only just caught up to Plasma in the last 5 years.
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post #15 of 30 Old 06-25-2013, 07:17 PM
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If you can't resolve the dither, which is pixel-level noise, you can't resolve 1080p. Either you see it and choose to ignore it, or you can't see it.

ABL has been glaringly obvious with any plasma I've used when playing games, watching animated content, using a PC connected up, or even with bright scenes in films.
Don't forget that ABL is not just about the set dimming in bright scenes, but whites getting extremely bright in dark scenes - which I find uncomfortable to watch.

My 2010 Sony sets uses backlight scanning, and while it does not eliminate motion blur entirely, it brings it down to less than what Plasmas show with phosphor lag, and a level which is acceptable to me. (but I would still like it to be better)
Previous LCDs - particularly Samsung panels which tended to smear the image in dark scenes - were completely unacceptable. Today's Plasmas are still unacceptable to me due to phosphor lag.
Whether you see it, or whether it bothers you is not the issue - you're lucky if you don't, I suppose - but if you can't see it, I don't think your opinion is that valid when it comes to motion blur. Phosphor lag is a type of motion blur.


But this has been done over and over many times before. The question was about a new set focused on gaming.
So far the Sony W8 seems to be the best choice due to it having the lowest input lag of any 2013 TV so far, and its complete resistance to image retention/burn-in due to being an LCD.
And as far as gaming is concerned, the lack of an ABL (note: Sony have a configurable software-based ABL if you want it) is very important in my opinion, as that is where the screen dimming is most obvious.
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post #16 of 30 Old 06-25-2013, 07:34 PM
 
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It is pixel-level noise that doesn't noticeably disrupt, distort or otherwise smear the detail and requires that I be 4 to 5 feet away to visualize, and this is with Lasik-corrected vision. 4 to 5 feet from a 50" or 65" (especially) screen is overkill, and the noise is so minute as to become invisible and undetectable beyond these distances. To say that one isn't resolving 1080p detail because they're not seeing minute posterization activity amounts to spouting FUD, your hypersensitivity notwithstanding.

Of course, phosphor lag is a type of motion blur, but if that's the criteria used for being able to detect motion blur of any kind, that makes the majority unqualified to speak about the perception (or lack thereof) of motion blur altogether. I've also never had the dis/pleasure of owning Samsung's plasma implementation.

For FPS type games where frags are essential to winning, I can see the appeal of the W8.

Still, I don't understand why some here seem to get so giddy at the thought of an LCD-only world.
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post #17 of 30 Old 06-25-2013, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

High end plasmas are better than any LCD/LED in every aspect not only black levels. The only one that could compete was the Sharp Elite. Plasma has won best display of the year for the past 2 years. As far as image quality far better ..lol , well if you like an over saturated color, fake looking soap opera image with motion blur and clouding and flashlighting,than that's your opinion. Seriously Paul if you are a heavy gamer go for the Sony, if not I would go Plasma. It's totally up to you, just go to the store and check them out.

Yeah. I don't get how anyone can say LCD's are better than plasmas for PQ. That's just plain nonsense. No LCD gives that natural organic look of plasmas. Not even the overrated Sharp. The sharp has that same artificial look like all LCD's.

HomeTheater's review of the ST60 summed up why plasmas are superior best-
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Most of the best plasma HDTVs I’ve seen have a kind of smooth, film-like texture and solidity to the image, coupled with a special quality to the phosphor-based color that’s hard to explain considering that it doesn’t really show up in the measurements. I once asked a plasma TV engineer about this, and he described plasma’s unique look as “organic.” If by that he meant natural, accurate, engaging, dimensional, even addictive, then I think it sums up the Panasonic ST60 series.

home theater addict
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post #18 of 30 Old 06-25-2013, 07:48 PM
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For FPS type games where frags are essential to winning, I can see the appeal of the W8.
Input lag matters any time you are interacting with a display, it's not just about competitive gaming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4


Even if you are not a competitive gamer, you should be able to see a massive gap between user inputs and when the display reacts.
In this example it is touch, but it applies to any input. (e.g. a game controller)
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Still, I don't understand why some here seem to get so giddy at the thought of an LCD-only world.
I'm not one of them. But being dissatisfied with Plasma apparently puts me in that camp.
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Yeah. I don't get how anyone can say LCD's are better than plasmas for PQ. That's just plain nonsense. No LCD gives that natural organic look of plasmas. Not even the overrated Sharp. The sharp has that same artificial look like all LCD's.
The best LCDs and the best Plasmas have the same color accuracy. There is nothing more "organic" about the image in that regard - except that LCDs with true 10-bit gradation don't posterize in dark scenes.
Plasmas look more "digital" and less "organic" than the best LCDs do. Digital artefacts like dither and posterization, and distractions like the ABL and phosphor lag do not provide a good viewing experience in my opinion.

I love CRTs. If they were still an option today and had remained competitive (e.g. large sizes, high resolutions) I would probably own one instead of a flat panel. I love the "phosphor glow" of a CRT.
I don't get that "phosphor glow" at all when watching a Plasma display, and I don't understand where people are coming from when they say that about Plasma displays.
My full array local dimming LCD is more CRT-like than any Plasma out there. Its contrast characteristics are very similar to CRT, color reproduction is impeccable, motion blur is a non-issue, gradation is similar to CRT - considerably better than Plasma.

Plasma does well when it comes to color accuracy, black level, viewing angles, and price. I won't deny that. In all other aspects of image quality it falls behind LCD.
It seems that many people on AVS Forum don't care about the finer points of image quality though, and are happy to ignore Plasma's issues - or deny they exist.
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post #19 of 30 Old 06-25-2013, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

Which sony models? Can you post this in the plasma section with a link of proof. I would like to hear other people's view on this, I'm really interested where you got this information from.
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Let's not kid ourselves by insinuating that LCD is the king of motion resolution either. They've only just caught up to Plasma in the last 5 years.
Look at the computer monitor world. There was an unexpected gem of a development recently.
LightBoost is a strobe backlight found in several 120Hz computer monitors. The motion resolution of this has already massively surpassed plasma by a significant margin.

For LightBoost:
1. PHOTOS: 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost
2. Testimonials from gamers impressed by LightBoost
3. TFTCentral: Motion Blur Reduction Backlights including LightBoost
(They found it greatly outperformed scanning backlights).

That said, LightBoost (precise strobe backlight LCD) has crappy color & poor blacks. No argument.
But LightBoost, definitely has less motion blur than the world's best plasmas (and even Panasonic VT50 with 2500Hz FFD).


(True measurements. Not manufacturer claims)

Plasma is rated at about ~5ms of motion blur (due to phosphor limitation), about three times as much motion blur as LightBoost 120Hz configured to a 10% setting. Yes, at this point, LightBoost is darker (and far less contrast) than plasma due to the 1.4 millisecond strobe flashes during an 8.3ms 120Hz refresh, essentially equivalent to a 5:1 dark frame, far closer to CRT quality than past scanning backlights. But motion resolution of LightBoost is king right now in the computer monitor world -- nothing comes close unless you buy a short-persistence-phosphor CRT computer monitor.

Alas, LightBoost is a strobe backlight invented originally for nVidia 3D Vision, and nVidia force-bundled LightBoost motion blur elimination with 3D (many people aren't interested in 3D stereoscopic). The strobes were designed to be synchronized with 3D glasses for crosstalk elimination; but that happens to also hide the sample-and-hold effect (and eliminating the visibility of ghosting and overdrive too!!). However, tweaks were found to enable LightBoost for 2D without needing the 3D stereoscopic feature. Getting the amazing CRT-quality motion blur elimination feature for 2D, without needing the 3D requirement -- and use the LightBoost motion blur elimination solely in 2D. And then came many testimonials in various parts of the Internet. Due to its original 3D heritage, LightBoost only functions at 100-120Hz. It's like having a CRT that only syncs to 100-120Hz. You need to feed it native 2D 120fps material (e.g. computer video games driven by a powerful GPU) to get the same CRT clarity motion as the equivalent 120Hz CRT (you need framerate=Hz to zero-out the motion blur).
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Then yesterday I, for some reason, disabled the 3d and noticed there was no ghosting to be spotted at all in titan quest. It's like playing on my old CRT.
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original post (Inu)
I can confirm this works on BENQ XL2420TX
EDIT: And OMG i can play scout so much better now in TF2, this is borderline cheating.
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original post (TerrorHead)
Thanks for this, it really works! Just tried it on my VG278H. Its like a CRT now!
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original post (Vega)
Oh my, I just got Skyrim AFK camera spinning (which I used to test LCD's versus the [Sony CRT] FW900) to run without stutters and VSYNC locked to 120. This Benq with Lightboost is just as crystal clear if not clearer than the FW900 motion. I am in awe. More testing tomorrow. Any of my doubts about this Lightboost technology have been vaporized! I've been playing around with this fluid motion on this monitor for like 6-hours straight, that is how impressive it is.
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way to go vega enjoyed your review and pics ..thanks for taking the time .got my VG248QE last friday .replacing my fw900 witch is finally taking a rest in my closet .
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Thanks for the timely review Vega.
I went ahead and opened mine and WOW, it really does feel like my FW900. I haven't tried a game yet but it's down right eerie seeing 2d text move without going blurry.
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With my Asus VG278HE at 120Hz and Lightboost (the Lightboost registry hack doesn't currently support 144Hz) playing at 1080p I am pretty much brutalizing my competition. Even with its 2-5ms input lag, which is worse than the 1ms of my old 120Hz monitor the difference with Lightboost is so huge the input lag literally becomes a non-issue. The only thing that matters now that I don't experience any motion blur is my true reaction time.
The FW900 is a famous 24" widescreen CRT that has been a long-time favourite of CRT die-hards. If you were used to CRT gaming in the past -- and is very sensitive to motion blur -- the motion blur problem has now been fully solved on these LightBoost monitors!

Again, the color-quality is often very poor on some LightBoost displays.
But LightBoost is currently the world's champion in motion resolution on an LCD panel; beating even the best plasma and even some CRT's.

Presently, it's unfortunate that manufacturers aren't currently pushing hard for LCD's that beat CRT's in motion resolution (now that it's technologically definitely possible -- The backlight is turned off while waiting for pixel transitions (unseen by human eyes), and the backlight is strobed only on fully-refreshed LCD frames (seen by human eyes). The strobes can be shorter than pixel transitions, breaking the pixel transition speed barrier! In addition, it eliminates the sample-and-hold effect. LCD motion clarity has no upper limit anymore when this is successfully done -- it becomes now limited by how quickly you flash a full-screen LED backlight. A LightBoost display configured to 10% flashes at 1.4ms, which is shorter than certain CRT's with medium-persistence phosphor (1.5ms to 2ms decay cycle)

High speed video proof:

(A) Still don't believe it?
Here's see high speed video proof (1000fps on a LightBoost display).
(B) Still DON'T believe it?
Ars Technica and AnandTech already covered LightBoost. See list of media coverage

(C) Still DON'T believe it?
Go to Amazon Customer Reviews for ASUS VG248QE Monitor. Hit Control+F and find all words "LightBoost" on that page; many customers are amazed at its motion resolution.

NOTE: The list of monitors that supports LightBoost, is in the LightBoost FAQ. Yes LightBoost *COLOR* quality is terrible (though recalibrateable). However, motion resolution of LightBoost beats plasma by a huge margin. Proof given. Full stop.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon


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BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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post #20 of 30 Old 06-25-2013, 11:44 PM
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1) the percentage susceptible to noticeable phosphor lag is in the single digits. Let's not kid ourselves by insinuating that LCD is the king of motion resolution either. They've only just caught up to Plasma in the last 5 years.

Phosphor lag has not traditionally been the main contributor to motion blur on plasma. The culprit was always average hold time.
Hold time is something everyone is susceptible to.... that is after all how LCD got its bad reputation for motion blur.

I agree, for the past few years, LCD and plasma have been equally capable in the motion resolution department.
The myth that plasma remains superior in this regard still persists everywhere.
Low frame rates are the barrier to improving motion resolution at this point.

What's new? LCD's recent advances have frankly blown plasma out of the water. It's not even close.
Can plasma catch up in the motion blur department with sub-field driving? Interpolation? Will they even try?
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post #21 of 30 Old 06-25-2013, 11:49 PM
 
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^I am not so sure they will...Samsung seems to be the only one in a financial position to do so.

Thanks, Mark, but the primer on Lightboost is not necessary (and requires a video adapter/driver that also supports it). Also, it should be noted (for the sake of my original argument, which I admit should be rephrased to account for this new development) the date of first availability for that monitor is January 17, 2013.

And Chrono, again, no background videos needed. One could see just how hideous the input lag was on the F8500 at the shootout based on the TVs that surrounded it, but the complaints about the "lagging" response of other, faster panels (at 40 ms or below) just ring hollow for all but the most demanding applications. Also, the way you frame the argument, it's as if all those other facets of PQ where plasma excels are or should be nearly meaningless to videophiles since LCD is superior in every other realm. I mean, if that were true, I never would have sought out a display technology other than LCD way back in 2008. I mean, I must be a complete idiot to have grabbed another plasma in the year 2013 (I have no gaming consoles, I primarily watch films) based on how superior LCD is.
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post #22 of 30 Old 06-26-2013, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by borf View Post

Can plasma catch up in the motion blur department with sub-field driving? Interpolation? Will they even try?
As you increase the refresh rate on Plasma, image quality gets worse. (gradation in particular) Similarly, as you reduce the hold times on Plasma, image quality is reduced. I don't see it as being a problem that can be solved - or one which will be, considering Plasma R&D is coming to an end.
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I mean, if that were true, I never would have sought out a display technology other than LCD way back in 2008.
LCD was terrible back in 2008.
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post #23 of 30 Old 06-26-2013, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist 
LCD was terrible back in 2008.

In 2008 the Pioneer Elite Pro 111FD set the standard for Plasma and the Sony XBR8 set the standard for LCd. 2008 was a very important year for Plasma and LCd IMO

16-10-08
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sony-bravia-kdl-55xbr8/4505-6482_7-33060615.html

quote Katzmaier:
It delivers picture quality that's nearly as good as the Pioneer PDP-111FD


30-9-08
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/pioneer-elite-kuro-pro/4505-6482_7-33002556.html

quote Katzmaier:
The Pioneer Elite Pro 111FD represents the pinnacle of flat panel HDTV picture quality
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post #24 of 30 Old 06-26-2013, 10:03 AM
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The best LCDs and the best Plasmas have the same color accuracy. There is nothing more "organic" about the image in that regard - except that LCDs with true 10-bit gradation don't posterize in dark scenes.
Plasmas look more "digital" and less "organic" than the best LCDs do. Digital artefacts like dither and posterization, and distractions like the ABL and phosphor lag do not provide a good viewing experience in my opinion.

You are only person that always says this. There's nothing digital looking about plasmas. LCD's are the most digital artificial looking displays out there.
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My full array local dimming LCD is more CRT-like than any Plasma out there. Its contrast characteristics are very similar to CRT, color reproduction is impeccable, motion blur is a non-issue, gradation is similar to CRT - considerably better than Plasma.

I've viewed many LCD's over the years. I actually still have a Samsung that i use. There's absolutely nothing CRT like about them. My kuro is the most CRT looking TV i've seen. But all plasmas in general have CRT looks. You don't get that with LCD's.
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Plasma does well when it comes to color accuracy, black level, viewing angles, and price. I won't deny that. In all other aspects of image quality it falls behind LCD.
In many aspects it surpasses LCD. Like uniformity. There's nothing about the PQ aspects of plasmas where it falls behind.
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It seems that many people on AVS Forum don't care about the finer points of image quality though, and are happy to ignore Plasma's issues - or deny they exist.

The "issues" you mentioned are not detrimental to the PQ. And most people don't even notice them anyway. But the characteristics of LCD's are readily noticeable and distracting.

home theater addict
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post #25 of 30 Old 06-26-2013, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

In 2008 the Pioneer Elite Pro 111FD set the standard for Plasma and the Sony XBR8 set the standard for LCd. 2008 was a very important year for Plasma and LCd IMO
It was important because the XBR8 introduced full array dimming, but it used an SPVA panel which still had poor motion handling (SPVA tended to smear skintones, or dark images) without using backlight scanning.
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I've viewed many LCD's over the years. I actually still have a Samsung that i use. There's absolutely nothing CRT like about them.
Not most of them, but ones that combine a high contrast panel, backlight scanning, and full array local dimming are CRT-like.
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My kuro is the most CRT looking TV i've seen. But all plasmas in general have CRT looks. You don't get that with LCD's.
Your Kuro puts out a noisy dithered image and suffers from poor gradation/posterization near black. A CRT has wonderfully smooth gradation with no posterization, and a noise-free image - so do 10-bit LCDs. Dither and posterization are harsh digital artefacts, there is nothing analog looking about the image a plasma puts out.
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post #26 of 30 Old 06-27-2013, 06:21 PM
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My kuro has a very clean image. No noise. Seriously smile.gif

Same for Posterization.

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*dons devil advocate's snark hat* That's just cuz you're blind, man. biggrin.gif
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post #28 of 30 Old 09-09-2013, 03:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey again! Yesterday, the lady and I picked up the 55" W900a. KILLER SET! Thanks again for the advice!! Now I just gotta figure out the motionflow/cinematic whatchamajiggies.
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post #29 of 30 Old 09-09-2013, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

I've viewed many LCD's over the years.
Although plasmas are better for blacks and color quality, the LCD motion blur problem is finally solved.

You probably haven't seen the new ultrahigh-efficiency interpolation-free strobe backlight LCD's
-- nVidia's LightBoost strobe backlight (example "It's like a CRT" testimonials)
-- Sony's Motionflow "Impulse" strobe backlight (the Game Mode interpolation-free version)
-- Eizo's strobe backlight in the new FDF2405W 240Hz computer monitor (interpolation-free, see page 15 of manual).

All the above have less motion blur than most plasmas (including Kuro), except the plasmas that use short-perstence phosphors (e.g. NeoPlasma). This is of more interest to computer users and game players, which needs lower input lag and also typically exhibit faster panning motion than even sports television broadcasts.
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There's absolutely nothing CRT like about them.
Although true about black levels and CRT-like phosphors, not true anymore about motion blur. You now have CRT clarity motion on certain new interpolation-free strobe-backlight LCD's. But that said, I know many hate the LCD look. That said, I'm just pointing out that the LCD motion blur dragon has recently been slayed with the pure-strobe backlight technique (non-scanned, non-interpolated).

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon


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BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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post #30 of 30 Old 09-13-2013, 04:17 PM
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Mark, which Sony models have the version of MotionFlow that you're talking about?

 

It must be crippled on purpose, because no setting on my KDL-60R550A comes close to solving the motion like the higher end Sony's.  I wonder what they're doing from model to model......I don't believe there's much in the panel itself any longer: I believe everything is software.


Grow milkweed. The Monarch Butterfly requires it, and its numbers are dwindling fast.
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