Is Plasma just not an option? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 09-15-2013, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I am looking to purchase a new television for my living room. The only thing I am sure on is I want a 55 inch set. My usage is varied between video games, sports, television, and movies. The television will 3+ hours of usage per day. I had my mind set on a Panasonic plasma, but became nervous when reading other posts. I watch a ton of sports which of course have static logos, tickers, and score boxes. I also play a lot of video games that have static images such as HUD, maps, score boxes, etc.. Does this completely eliminate plasma as an option? I figured I'd try you guys and see what you all think. If it doesn't are there particular plasmas that seem to do a better job handling static images and avoiding retention and burn in? Thanks!
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post #2 of 18 Old 09-15-2013, 01:24 PM
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I definitely wouldn't want a plasma for that kind of use.
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post #3 of 18 Old 09-15-2013, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your reply Chrono. I know the picture quality is superior on the plasma, but I think for my purposes it just might be a bad idea. I'm probably going to look at a LED then. So far I like the Sony KDL55W900A and Samsung UN55F8000BFXZA. I really don't know much about companies outside of Sony and Samsung.
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post #4 of 18 Old 09-15-2013, 02:07 PM
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I have a Samsung 50 inch plasma. Watched New Orleans Saints and LSU football on it for four years. Not a problem at all. Football looks terrific on it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
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post #5 of 18 Old 09-15-2013, 02:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosdo View Post

Thanks for your reply Chrono. I know the picture quality is superior on the plasma, but I think for my purposes it just might be a bad idea.
You won't achieve agreement with Chrono on that contention, I'm afraid, though I would agree. wink.gif

I am seeing traces of IR on a white screen on my Panasonic ZT60 with today's football games, so based on this experience, I couldn't in good conscience recommend this panel for someone who watches a lot of sports (I don't typically), even if it is temporary because it's being retained even with commercial breaks (of which you know there are many, many during a typical game). This probably goes for all of Panasonic's 2013 line.

EDIT: I changed from the THX Bright Room to Cinema setting (the latter being less contrasty) for the second big game (NYG vs. Denver), and I am not seeing anything untoward as far as IR now. The ZT60 might work for you, but caution would need to be exercised more conscientiously than if you had LED.
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post #6 of 18 Old 09-17-2013, 02:35 AM
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I had an LG plasma with absolutely ZERO IR let alone a burn-in. I was really sad actually. I really wanted to see world famous LG IR for myself. But then again, I currently have several OLED smartphones and one of them has a burn-in and it doesn't bother me much as it's only visible on white background. It actually beats seeing poor uniformities on LCDs all the time. Always ask yourself if a tradeoff in one display can be redeemed by other. In my opinon, plasma's IR and PWM noise are only minor issues and I sure as hell wouldn't take poor blacks and poor uniformity which I will be noticing all the time just to avoid those. But I do consider ABLs and high input lag in majority of plasmas major issues, so prioritize your needs.
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post #7 of 18 Old 09-17-2013, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosdo View Post

I am looking to purchase a new television for my living room. The only thing I am sure on is I want a 55 inch set. My usage is varied between video games, sports, television, and movies. The television will 3+ hours of usage per day. I had my mind set on a Panasonic plasma, but became nervous when reading other posts. I watch a ton of sports which of course have static logos, tickers, and score boxes. I also play a lot of video games that have static images such as HUD, maps, score boxes, etc.. Does this completely eliminate plasma as an option? I figured I'd try you guys and see what you all think. If it doesn't are there particular plasmas that seem to do a better job handling static images and avoiding retention and burn in? Thanks!

My TV is on far more hours a day than yours is (on average). We are pretty wasteful in the evening about "watching" it while doing other things. We watch a lot of sports. I don't game on it a ton, but I have.

It's a 2012 Panasonic plasma. I cannot make it retain an image. I have tried.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #8 of 18 Old 09-17-2013, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosdo View Post

I am looking to purchase a new television for my living room. The only thing I am sure on is I want a 55 inch set. My usage is varied between video games, sports, television, and movies. The television will 3+ hours of usage per day. I had my mind set on a Panasonic plasma, but became nervous when reading other posts. I watch a ton of sports which of course have static logos, tickers, and score boxes. I also play a lot of video games that have static images such as HUD, maps, score boxes, etc.. Does this completely eliminate plasma as an option? I figured I'd try you guys and see what you all think. If it doesn't are there particular plasmas that seem to do a better job handling static images and avoiding retention and burn in? Thanks!

I have four Panasonic Plasmas, each one spent at least two years as my primary display in my man-room and my daily viewing habits are 2-3 hours of news in the morning, another few hours of news after work (whether i'm actually watching it or just have it on in the backround), and most days a little prime time programming at night (pretty much 7 days a week). And on the weekends, i also watch hours and hours of auto racing and sports (all with tickers and logos and banners and all sorts of graphics on the screen) and none of my displays have any burn in, and virtually no IR. And what little IR i do get goes away within seconds after changing to another channel. The wife watches a lot of Food Channel and E Channel in the den on our secondary Plasma and it also has no Burn-In or IR issues.
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post #9 of 18 Old 09-21-2013, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosdo View Post

I am looking to purchase a new television for my living room. The only thing I am sure on is I want a 55 inch set. My usage is varied between video games, sports, television, and movies. The television will 3+ hours of usage per day. I had my mind set on a Panasonic plasma, but became nervous when reading other posts. I watch a ton of sports which of course have static logos, tickers, and score boxes. I also play a lot of video games that have static images such as HUD, maps, score boxes, etc.. Does this completely eliminate plasma as an option? I figured I'd try you guys and see what you all think. If it doesn't are there particular plasmas that seem to do a better job handling static images and avoiding retention and burn in? Thanks!

My TV is on far more hours a day than yours is (on average). We are pretty wasteful in the evening about "watching" it while doing other things. We watch a lot of sports. I don't game on it a ton, but I have.

It's a 2012 Panasonic plasma. I cannot make it retain an image. I have tried.

 

Was 2012 the year before the Panasonic attempt to change everything and increase brightness dramatically?  That might be part of the durability of your VT50.  I cringed when Panasonic first announced that.


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post #10 of 18 Old 09-21-2013, 09:47 AM
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Panasonic NeoPDP's (a pre-2012 panel) seem to use shorter persistence phosphors that seems to be more resistant to burn in, and actually has less motion blur than many current plasmas such as Kuro.

There are Blur Busters users(readers) who's very happy with a NeoPDP as a computer monitor, and currently has no burn in.
And the best thing is that they actually accept 120Hz true native input (no interpolation) from a computer, too!

SUPPORTS: 120hz@720p, frame sequential 3D, 8bit/channel:
Panasonic 42PF50U
Panasonic 50PF50U
Panasonic 60PF50U
Panasonic 65PF50U

SUPPORTS: 120hz@720p, frame sequential 3D, 10bit/channel, scaler optional
Panasonic 42BT300U
Panasonic 50BT300U
Panasonic 65VX300U

If you must use a plasma for computer and gaming use, these are my recommendations based on positive Blur Busters feedback.
These are discontinued, but they are still kicking about at some places, Amazon sellers, and on the resale market.
They aren't Kuro's but they have far less motion blur than Kuro's, at least, a useful consideration for the blur-sensitive videogamer.

The plasma issues (e.g. noisy darks and banding during close-distance gaming) still remain, but I haven't heard of burn-in complaints with these NeoPDP's. Do follow a number of sensibilities anyway (autohide taskbar, short screensaver timer, and a utility to change background wall paper at least on a daily basis). For blur-free 60fps gaming use, I still recommend Sony's low-latency interpolation-free Motionflow Impulse (an ultrahigh-efficiency strobe backlight compatible with Game Mode) -- which allows these LCD HDTV's to have less motion blur than most plasmas (e.g. Kuro and other medium-to-longer persistence phosphor). Those hell bent on plasma for gaming and computer use, I steer towards the 120Hz-compatible NeoPDP panels.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon


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BlurBusters Blog -- Eliminating Motion Blur by 90%+ on LCD for games and computers

Rooting for upcoming low-persistence rolling-scan OLEDs too!

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post #11 of 18 Old 09-21-2013, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Was 2012 the year before the Panasonic attempt to change everything and increase brightness dramatically?  That might be part of the durability of your VT50.  I cringed when Panasonic first announced that.

No, 2012 was the year they made the very decent bump in brightness.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #12 of 18 Old 09-21-2013, 03:22 PM
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Just an interesting aside.

 

I've noticed that by calibrating my TV using the WOW disk, the best picture seems to look no brighter than plasmas look anyway.


Beware the statistical correlations that sound like they're indicative of something. Drowning deaths are tightly correlated to ice cream consumption. In fact, be wary of any statistic that is stated as if it comes with a self-evident conclusion: there is no such thing.
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post #13 of 18 Old 09-22-2013, 12:08 AM
 
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I think people exaggerate with this issue. If you have used the tv for a couple hundred hours, then from that point on, having static material on it for a few hours won't do much of anything. Although the pannys sure are bad about IR, where you see it when turning the tvs off. All I know is I have a crappy broken kuro elite plasma and even on THAT one leaving black bars on the side for many hours at a time does nothing.
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post #14 of 18 Old 09-30-2013, 01:38 PM
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After reading Cnet's 5-star reviews of Panasonics ST, VT and ZT plasmas TVs, I really wanted one but was faced with several problems areas. First, we live in sunny So. Calif. and the den gets a lot of light during the day. In numerous store demos under similar lighting conditions, all plasma TVs looked washed out and were simply not able to provide acceptable contrast and brightness. My second problem area stems from the fact that the wife will frequently put the DVR on pause to take care of things around the house and there is no telling how long the TV might remain in "freeze" mode. We have friends with plasma TVs who experience image retention (IR) issues on a daily basis and some, unfortunately, have encountered permanent screen burn. The fact that not one single plasma TV manufacturer will warrant against screen burn is a deal breaker for me. As always, YMMV.
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post #15 of 18 Old 09-30-2013, 07:29 PM
 
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The DVR doesn't have a screensaver? That would resolve said concern for the most part.
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post #16 of 18 Old 09-30-2013, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Was 2012 the year before the Panasonic attempt to change everything and increase brightness dramatically?  That might be part of the durability of your VT50.  I cringed when Panasonic first announced that.
If this is true could one adjust it to the brightness levels of the older models and retain the durability or are these 2012 and later models somehow optimized to run at higher levels of brightness? Thanks.
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post #17 of 18 Old 09-30-2013, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

I think people exaggerate with this issue. If you have used the tv for a couple hundred hours, then from that point on, having static material on it for a few hours won't do much of anything. Although the pannys sure are bad about IR, where you see it when turning the tvs off. All I know is I have a crappy broken kuro elite plasma and even on THAT one leaving black bars on the side for many hours at a time does nothing.

I can't get my 2012 Panasonic to retain an image.
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Originally Posted by turnbowm View Post

After reading Cnet's 5-star reviews of Panasonics ST, VT and ZT plasmas TVs, I really wanted one but was faced with several problems areas. First, we live in sunny So. Calif. and the den gets a lot of light during the day. In numerous store demos under similar lighting conditions, all plasma TVs looked washed out and were simply not able to provide acceptable contrast and brightness. My second problem area stems from the fact that the wife will frequently put the DVR on pause to take care of things around the house and there is no telling how long the TV might remain in "freeze" mode. We have friends with plasma TVs who experience image retention (IR) issues on a daily basis and some, unfortunately, have encountered permanent screen burn. The fact that not one single plasma TV manufacturer will warrant against screen burn is a deal breaker for me. As always, YMMV.

My TV is just fine during the day unless the sun directly hits the TV and you are either 90 degrees from the sun or directly in line with it. Anywhere else and it's not an issue.
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If this is true could one adjust it to the brightness levels of the older models and retain the durability or are these 2012 and later models somehow optimized to run at higher levels of brightness? Thanks.

I see this as a non issue.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #18 of 18 Old 10-01-2013, 06:42 AM
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The DVR doesn't have a screensaver? That would resolve said concern for the most part.

It's approximately 10-years old and doesn't have a screensaver.
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