LG 55EA9800 55" OLED Owner's thread - Page 100 - AVS Forum
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post #2971 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

Ill certainly try overnight tonight, can I download it right from the thread or......?

Try what the wipe ? I'll put it on drop box but its only 45 minutes long so unless you can get it to repeat, its the scroll Samsung plasmas use.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iupanagzpmpa7r9/Wipe.mp4
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post #2972 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 05:29 PM
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Was probably on that screen for 20 minutes max.

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #2973 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coopson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

Well, I used to do the scroll but it seemed vinnie had better results with pure white.....

I would have thought a scroll of white and black would work better whatever works.

Here's what I use but its a lot longer.

Another few questions for you both:

These effects you are posting are always based on a grey background, but do you know if this grey background only uses white subpixels or all subpixels?

Do you see any similar effects if you display dim red or dim blue or dim green slides?

When you are running either the 'scrolling grey ramp' above or the 'solid white' slide to reduce/erase these effects, do you know if the wipe material is only using the white subpixels or is also using the colored subpixels?

It would be great to nail down if this IR/BI effect is limited to white subpixels or also appears an all of the colored subpixels...
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post #2974 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coopson View Post

Try what the wipe ? I'll put it on drop box but its only 45 minutes long so unless you can get it to repeat, its the scroll Samsung plasmas use.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iupanagzpmpa7r9/Wipe.mp4

Maybe the tv can auto repeat it. Thanks ill try it.

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #2975 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 05:30 PM
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Seems I'm getting best results from using the wipe then having the TV off mobo imprint is still there cant see that square yet.
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post #2976 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Another few questions for you both:

These effects you are posting are always based on a grey background, but do you know if this grey background only uses white subpixels or all subpixels?

Do you see any similar effects if you display dim red or dim blue or dim green slides?

When you are running either the 'scrolling grey ramp' above or the 'solid white' slide to reduce/erase these effects, do you know if the wipe material is only using the white subpixels or is also using the colored subpixels?

It would be great to nail down if this IR/BI effect is limited to white subpixels or also appears an all of the colored subpixels...

Black seem to get the most uneven wear I'll have to try with some dark color's tomorrow I'm off for tonight.
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post #2977 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

So just to make sure I understand:

  1. You watched Schindler's List and Gamed for two hours
  2. Then you watched LOTR and paused on the white-text on black background for a while (about how long)?
  3. Then the set was off all night long
  4. And today you see the image you have posted

Is that the right sequence?

Instead of trying the white slide overnight, can suggest that you instead try putting on some 480i/p content in 1:1 for a half hour or so? The small 1:1 image should completely overlap this text IR area and it would be interesting to know if active content (and/or colored content) is as effective as the all-white slide (which you can always leave on overnight after trying this first...).

Schindlers list and gaming were after the pause unfortunately. Set was indeed off overnight

OK, so the correct sequence was:
  1. You watched LOTR and paused on the white-text on black background between disks for a period of 5-15 minutes
  2. Then you watched Schindler's List and Gamed for two hours
  3. Then the set was off all night long
  4. And today you see the image you have posted
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post #2978 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 05:33 PM
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The only time I saw it on all colors was the burn I got from my first panel. THAT was constant. These have so far only been on grays, every now and then appearing on near blacks in content.

Worried tremendously that after the lines are exacerbated theylle spill to real content again as happened on first panel

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #2979 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

OK, so the correct sequence was:
  1. you watched Schindler's List and Gamed for two hours
  2. You watched LOTR and paused on the white-text on black background between disks for a period of 5-15 minutes
  3. Then you watched Schindler's List and Gamed for two hours
  4. Then the set was off all night long
  5. And today you see the image you have posted

Lol just cut out step one and start with LOTR then you've got it right. Also add an hour of pixel "jogger" today after I noticed it.

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #2980 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

The only time I saw it on all colors was the burn I got from my first panel. THAT was constant. These have so far only been on grays, every now and then appearing on near blacks in content.

Worried tremendously that after the lines are exacerbated theylle spill to real content again as happened on first panel

In terms of what display makes the IR/BI visible, stating that is only visible when displaying grey (or light black or dark grey) is fine.

But in terms of which subpixel colors are contributing to the effect, that requires zooming in on the panel to see which subpixels are activated when displaying grey.

Dark grey can be formed by using the white subpixel only

Dark grey can be formed by using all 4 subpixels

Dark grey can be formed by using the three colored subpixels only unlikely, but feasible)

If either of you has some way to zoom in and see which subpixels are active when displaying the grey slide, that would be great. I'm not sure how others have achieved that, but even taking a picture from 6" or so with your cell phones and then zooming in with photoshop or whatever may be good enough...
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post #2981 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

OK, so the correct sequence was:
  1. You watched LOTR and paused on the white-text on black background between disks for a period of 5-15 minutes
  2. Then you watched Schindler's List and Gamed for two hours
  3. Then the set was off all night long
  4. And today you see the image you have posted

Lol just cut out step one and start with LOTR then you've got it right. Also add an hour of pixel "jogger" today after I noticed it.

woops! too much excited typing too quickly - fixed in this repost and the original post biggrin.gif

p.s. and it's unfortunately starting to sound more serious after all of the 'erase' steps you have already tried...
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post #2982 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 05:51 PM
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Both the mild line and the letters show up on any gradation of gray from dark to near-white. However the darker the gray the more pronounced they are.

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #2983 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

Both the mild line and the letters show up on any gradation of gray from dark to near-white. However the darker the gray the more pronounced they are.

So it sounds like a semi-constant offset in brightness (larger % for darker luminance levels).

Are you able to try taking a close-up picture with your phone to see if individual sub-pixels of the dark grey slide can be distinguished by zooming in photoshop?

The picture you posted is only 500 by 700 pixels. The full resolution image from your camera at this distance may be good enough. Probably too large to post on the forum, but if you can look at it on your PC, you might be able to zoom in and post a small piece of the full-resolution image...

[Edit: scratch that - it's only 283 by 500...]
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post #2984 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 06:22 PM
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Well that square is gone.

From this:



To this:


Just the dark bigger square from the motherboard is there and that's always been there.

I had the TV off then used a scroll for 15ish minutes watched Thor 2 Scroll again for 30ish minutes then TV off for about an hour and a half.
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post #2985 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 06:28 PM
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What slide did you use?

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #2986 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 06:29 PM
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What slide did you use?

sorry meant scroll and i had the cell light on max with contrast.
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post #2987 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coopson View Post

Well that square is gone.

From this:



To this:


Just the dark bigger square from the motherboard is there and that's always been there.

I had the TV off then used a scroll for 15ish minutes watched Thor 2 Scroll again for 30ish minutes then TV off for about an hour and a half.

It sure would be great to see the subpixel pattern generating this grey screen - any chance of transferring a full-resolution image to your PC and zooming in?
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post #2988 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 08:08 PM
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Ive got no idea how to render the sub pixels viewable to you. I have a basic laptop and no Photoshop.

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #2989 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

Ive got no idea how to render the sub pixels viewable to you. I have a basic laptop and no Photoshop.

You need a full-resolution image (millions of pixels) from your camera. Any viewer should allow you to zoom in enough to see whether individual subpixels are discernable (paint, photo-viewer, whatever...)
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post #2990 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 09:00 PM
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I don't understand how Coop and Vinnie are almost completely negating their wear. Mine does dissapate quite a bit from the white slide followed by pixel jogger, or simply by scrolling all slides for one full day or multiple nights; but there's always some remnant left behind. I've STILL got that small line exactly as it appears in the last picture I posted of 2:40:1 and while I cannot see those letters on content they are faintly there on gray which still annoys the hell out of me considering it occurred in merely twenty minutes! Had it been 4 hours I might say "oh welll, thank god they don't appear on real content", but 20 minutes??? I mean seriously, this is driving me up a wall.

I'm trying so hard to continue loving this tv enough to keep recommending it, but things just continuously pop up that make it obvious it's still a beta product, if not alpha. Here on AVS we make progress as a team by working together with our findings, and the forum has been extremely helpful to that end as some of us have the tv's while others have the real technical know-how to turn to; but it always seems to be dismantled or convoluted by some new finding. All the while LG doesn't bat an eye at us. If I was a major corporation testing a new market with brand new, unbelievably expensive tech I would have reps specifically hired to post on forums; many gaming companies do that and it is certainly possible . Id also hire reps who dont play dumb to every concern a customer raises.

From loving it to death to wanting a different tv I go abck and forth multiple times throughout the day, all the while trying to seek out content I know will blow my mind on this set. Schindlers list REALLY blew me away as when all you have to work with is black and white, whites are a perfect, poppy luminance while blacks are utter voids of space. I've never seen such an ancient image format represented so impressively. I don't even think a movie theater could capture how accurate some image formats ring true here...

And yet...ugh. Just, ugh. Where's my redemption song, LG? Play me one.

Purchasing this TV certainly represents the greatest Catch 22 of modern technology.

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #2991 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 10:09 PM
 
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You have to understand that I stopped staring down the grayscale slide for the most part. Today was the first time I peeked at it in at least a week. The stress level had become too much, and I'm blissfully (and ignorantly) enjoying the PQ while I can, switching up content from slides to full-screen semi-regularly. I'll probably fire it up to see if any letterbox lines from the 1/2x Oppo zoom are left from earlier today, but I am growing weary here.
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post #2992 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by coopson View Post

Yes I've seen nothing to stop me wanting this TV but the fear of this compounding over time

I remember you were really concerned about DSE before buying this TV. Have you tested your soccer/football panning scenes yet? It seems hard to believe that all that gray uneven lighting is not showing up on regular content.
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post #2993 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 10:29 PM
 
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You need a full-resolution image (millions of pixels) from your camera. Any viewer should allow you to zoom in enough to see whether individual subpixels are discernable (paint, photo-viewer, whatever...)
The photo that is taken also needs to be relatively focused to see down to the pixel level. I am having great trouble taking macro photos with the Moto X (doesn't help that I'm an amateur). I tried this evening and the photo is hideously out of focus, but zoomed in I am seeing what looks like shades of other colors as if RGB are in use. This should mean, however, that the 2 dead green subpixels I have are apparent, but they are not.

The 1/2x zoomed content from earlier vanished from the screen after a good 8 or 9-hour break.
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post #2994 of 6763 Old 05-15-2014, 11:36 PM
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My wife would kill me I Was setting up cameras taking photos of sub pixels, you guys are too paranoid to ever enjoy your sets.
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post #2995 of 6763 Old 05-16-2014, 01:38 AM
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You need a full-resolution image (millions of pixels) from your camera. Any viewer should allow you to zoom in enough to see whether individual subpixels are discernable (paint, photo-viewer, whatever...)

 

I haven't tried with my camera (yet). But putting my eye real close during a grey slide, it sure looks like only one of the 4 subpixels is active, implying that only the white subpixel is used to render grey.


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post #2996 of 6763 Old 05-16-2014, 04:18 AM
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No DSE on football at all the only time the poor uniformity might show is in dark greys, one step above black looks so bad but no real content has shown that I'd take a picture of one step from black but its to dark for the camera.

A bright picture has no chance to show DSE.
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post #2997 of 6763 Old 05-16-2014, 06:13 AM
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Coopson has been a hero in this post cool.gif i salute u oled findings
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post #2998 of 6763 Old 05-16-2014, 06:14 AM
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I wonder how many engineers from LG are following this thread (directly or indirectly after everything has been translated into Korean :-)

 

I've been wondering that for years here at AVS, for all manufacturers.  In the case of the LG folks however, if they're relying on google translate to get this into Korean, they could well be reading a unanimous opinion here that "My OLED tastes like chicken."


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #2999 of 6763 Old 05-16-2014, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

I don't understand how Coop and Vinnie are almost completely negating their wear. Mine does dissapate quite a bit from the white slide followed by pixel jogger, or simply by scrolling all slides for one full day or multiple nights; but there's always some remnant left behind.

 

One of the reasons I suggested the pulsing white/black pixel exerciser 84,374 posts ago was because I was pondering the effects of heat issues.

 

Even if it's a heat based thing, it doesn't mean that the heat doesn't directly implicate wear.  But if we focus on heat for the time being, then what might be happening is similar in both cases:

 

1. Case of white/black pulsing: uniform heating of the screen past the "I can see the difference" threshold leaves it looking uniform.  This then cools (or however returns) to it's normal state uniformly as well.

2. Case of leaving it alone: The entire sheet cools to the natural uniform state (or close).

 

Note: I'm still suspicious of some kind of contiguous pixel effect.  Whether this over-builds a transient charge mid OLED sheets, or has a multiplying heat effect, it might account some for the dramatic difference between 1.85 and stationary HUD displays.


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #3000 of 6763 Old 05-16-2014, 06:24 AM
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Coopson has been a hero in this post cool.gif i salute u oled findings

 

And Vin.  And Plague.  All extremely helpful.

 

I also want to point out that the folks that don't see any issues have a significant value as well: forums collect the disasters.  But I find it difficult to believe that the folks that were interested in buying this, then buy it, then see what others have seen, are all outliers.


Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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