LG 55EA9800 55" OLED Owner's thread - Page 166 - AVS Forum
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post #4951 of 6977 Old 07-11-2014, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
In general, brightness controls the average brightness or midpoint, and contrast controls the gain or 'whitest-white' and 'blackest-black' centered around that midpoint. Though often, brightness is used to set 'whitest white' in which case contrast sets 'blackest-black'.
Sorry Faf, I don't agree with this. With all due respect, as you have a lot of great technical knowledge!

Brightness directly controls blacks and contrast directly controls whites. You cannot make a tv look brighter with a brightness setting; turning it to 100 will do nothing besides turn everything black light gray, likewise lowering it to 0 will make blacks crush out all detail. Nothing else in the picture will change. The number which you set brightness at induces them at a specific intensity, one which you want to be as black as possible without causing crush; hence my brief explanation on how to find this numerical setting in my last post.

You can test this yourself on any tv ever made by placing a black slide up and toggling brightness up and down. Doing the same on a white slide will leave it unaffected. This setting will also not be affected by your contrast setting. Raising contrast, however, will make your tv look "brighter", clipping whites if set too high. You can test this as well; a black slide will not change by toggling contrast (if it does it will be extremely minimal).

Unless I just misunderstood your explanation...

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post #4952 of 6977 Old 07-11-2014, 11:05 PM
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I think Plague should wait for the 2014 1080p oled (55ec9300). That's a $5000 set so basically equal in price to what he already has. They were supposed to release before the end of July.

I would never consider an LCD. FALD is a Band-Aid on a fundamentally flawed technology. It will not improve viewing angles (actually makes them more obvious due to the blooming) and it will not solve DSE/Uniformity issues present on majority of the sets. Poorly implemented FALD algorithms can also introduce distracting brightness fluctuations. I owned a Sharp Elite for about 1 month and was forced to return it because of the issues I just mentioned. I highly doubt that some budget Vizio with a fraction of the zones will do any better.


If you're a gamer, you should also consider that most non-Sony 4K sets have horrible input lag and possibly worse motion handling.
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post #4953 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

I would never consider an LCD. FALD is a Band-Aid on a fundamentally flawed technology. It will not improve viewing angles (actually makes them more obvious due to the blooming) and it will not solve DSE/Uniformity issues present on majority of the sets. Poorly implemented FALD algorithms can also introduce distracting brightness fluctuations. I owned a Sharp Elite for about 1 month and was forced to return it because of the issues I just mentioned. I highly doubt that some budget Vizio with a fraction of the zones will do any better.

You appeared to have issues with your Sharp that most of us never had. The uniformity on mine is exceptionally good as is the minimal DSE and I see no distracting brightness fluctuations at all. I'd stack up my Elite with virtually any plasma I've owned or seen and it would fare quite well. The biggest weaknesses of the Sharp are viewing angle and certain colors. But this is not an inherent flaw in all LEDs. Having just seen the 79" Sony, nobody could justifiably point to viewing angle as a weakness. It is quite close to plasma.

One could easily say that plasma and OLED are 'fundamentally flawed technology'. It all depends on what the flaws are that you focus on. IR, burn-in, dying pixels, ABL etc. are all 'flaws' in the total scheme of things. You pick your 'flaws' and live with them.

So I don't see FALD as a 'Band-Aid', I see it simply as a means of improving an existing technology. The use of 'Band-Aid' smacks of the often repeated word used to describe dimming technology as 'tricks'. This is just so absurd. The process of creating any picture on any display technology, is nothing but 'tricks'.
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post #4954 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
If you believe that there will only be walled gardens of 4K content in the future, picking the 4K TV vendor that has the best walled garden would be a valid consideration.


But if you believe that once 4K content truly becomes available for mass-consumption, it will be equally available to all TV brands, Sony's current walled garden translates into nothing more than a few movies that can be accessed in full 4K quality a bit earlier on a Sony TV than another brand. Especially given the upscaling capability for 1080p content, I would not see that as a significant enough of an advantage to influence my purchasing decision. Same price and same PQ, why not choose the TV with the best ecosystem / walled garden, but for either a premium in price or a degradation in PQ, it would not be a significant enough consideration to steer me away from the best price-performance despite the inferior content ecosystem.
I agree that 4K will open up in the future, but for the next couple of years, you will live largely in that 'walled garden'. I'm not sure what you think the timeframe would be for a Sony 4K movie to be available for other brands, but it won't be around the corner, you can bet on that. Additionally, the Sony 4K library is expanding and I don't think I'd describe it as just a 'few'.

I do agree with you that it should not be the only consideration, but IMO, it should be a consideration. Inevitably, obviously, PQ will be the primary consideration. IMO, the 2014 Sonys do appear to have the best PQ of any of the UHD TVs. YMMV.
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post #4955 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
It appears that the EC9700 is going to have an introductory MSRP of about $10,000 (at least based on the MSRP of £6000 which has been announced in the UK). Assuming $10,000 is also the MSRP for the EC9700 here in the States, what is the discount % off of that introductory MSRP you believe will cause serious trouble for Samsung and Vizio here in the US? A 50% discount would correspond to a price of $5000 - is that the 'pain-point' in your view or will it take a price even lower than that 9 months from now to cause serious trouble to the other TV technologies?
Correct a $5000 4K OLED would rattle the market. Who would buy a XBR-65X950B even for the same cost ? Here is to hoping the 4K OLED's drop like the 55EA9800......
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post #4956 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Correct a $5000 4K OLED would rattle the market. Who would buy a XBR-65X950B even for the same cost ? Here is to hoping to4K OLED's drop like the 55EA9800......
I'm not so sure a 5000 65" of any technology would rattle the market now that I've seen how low the 2ks have reached in price. It's making me rethink everything regarding price. This will be interesting to be sure.

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post #4957 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 11:10 AM
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Watched some content last night that produced some poor pq
Was streaming amazon, which is garbage compared to Netflix, both in speed and pq,, show was called under the dome
Episode 3 or 4, where they are searching for an exit underground
A lot of gray on the screen, looked very very dirty, and not very good at all
Not sure how much was source and how much was the tv
When one of the characters would light a match, that portion of the picture would return to what I would call normal oled pq
I think I'm going to watch those scenes over again with thx mode to see if it helps it at all although I don't expect much of a difference due to this TVs weakness to grays
Superman has a kryptonite
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post #4958 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 11:24 AM
 
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I wouldn't necessarily rely upon streaming to assess uniformity. Check out Godfather. Lots of near black content in that.
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post #4959 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Correct a $5000 4K OLED would rattle the market. Who would buy a XBR-65X950B even for the same cost ? Here is to hoping the 4K OLED's drop like the 55EA9800......
If it was 65"? Yes of course, you still have to consider lifespan of OLED being 10 years and LED being 30 years. I am sure by the time LG has A 65" 4k OLED for $5,000 Sony will be selling their 79" for $4,500.

If you are 30 years old you can literally have an LED last until your 60, that's kind of scary.

365 days X 8 hours per day = 2920 hours X 30 years = 87,600 hours and you still may have it for a few good years past this.

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post #4960 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
I wouldn't necessarily rely upon streaming to assess uniformity. Check out Godfather. Lots of near black content in that.
Thanks vinny, I'll have to pick it up on blu ray
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post #4961 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 11:31 AM
 
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Low-light content, in fact, tends to be the most susceptible to streaming artifacts.
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post #4962 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 11:34 AM
 
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If it was 65"? Yes of course, you still have to consider lifespan of OLED being 10 years and LED being 30 years. I am sure by the time LG has A 65" 4k OLED for $5,000 Sony will be selling their 79" for $4,500.

If you are 30 years old you can literally have an LED last until your 60, that's kind of scary.
Actual lifespans do vary, and LCDs (or anything manufactured in at least the last decade for that matter) are not built like the CRT tanks of old, many of which lasted decades. Who keeps or has kept an LCD for decades? I guess the size is the biggest motivator here for keeping it over the long run, but QC isn't what it used to be.

Also, a customer seeking out a 65" panel won't necessarily be in the market for one near 80". The latter's a much smaller pool of potential clients.
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post #4963 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Correct a $5000 4K OLED would rattle the market. Who would buy a XBR-65X950B even for the same cost ? Here is to hoping the 4K OLED's drop like the 55EA9800......
Maybe if they also fix the issues found in the first gen units. If they don't OLED will likely get a taint on it they'll never get rid of.
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post #4964 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Vegas oled View Post
If it was 65"? Yes of course, you still have to consider lifespan of OLED being 10 years and LED being 30 years. I am sure by the time LG has A 65" 4k OLED for $5,000 Sony will be selling their 79" for $4,500.

If you are 30 years old you can literally have an LED last until your 60, that's kind of scary.

365 days X 8 hours per day = 2920 hours X 30 years = 87,600 hours and you still may have it for a few good years past this.
C'mon, lets not get delusional now. There's no way that content in 30 years is still going to play over a HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 connection. They'll obsolete that as soon as TV sales start to dry up and they need to force another round of upgrading to boost sales.
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post #4965 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
Watched some content last night that produced some poor pq
Was streaming amazon, which is garbage compared to Netflix, both in speed and pq,, show was called under the dome
Episode 3 or 4, where they are searching for an exit underground
A lot of gray on the screen, looked very very dirty, and not very good at all
Not sure how much was source and how much was the tv
When one of the characters would light a match, that portion of the picture would return to what I would call normal oled pq
I think I'm going to watch those scenes over again with thx mode to see if it helps it at all although I don't expect much of a difference due to this TVs weakness to grays
Superman has a kryptonite
5x10, I'd bet that was the fault of Amazon and not the OLED. We watch that series and the PQ is usually quite good. Of course we watch it on the DVR which is recorded from Directv. It's a safe bet that Directv will have better PQ than streaming.
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post #4966 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 11:43 AM
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Maybe if they also fix the issues found in the first gen units. If they don't OLED will likely get a taint on it they'll never get rid of.
They are amazing pictures. If they compete $ per square inch
LED will never be chosen over OLED by the people in this forum. That time is still probably 5 years away. The biggest problem with OLED is screen size. 65" for 5k and there would be no question what I would purchase.

I really don't want to buy a TV that can out live me.
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post #4967 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
Low-light content, in fact, tends to be the most susceptible to streaming artifacts.
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5x10, I'd bet that was the fault of Amazon and not the OLED. We watch that series and the PQ is usually quite good. Of course we watch it on the DVR which is recorded from Directv. It's a safe bet that Directv will have better PQ than streaming.
Thanks guys, I just went and streamed it on the oled(using thx) and my vt30 and it looked like crap on all of them
Agree it's the source, amazons streaming is so bad it will freeze periodically and wait for the video to load

I'm going to setup a DVr recording and switch to that when I catch up, pretty good series so far
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post #4968 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
C'mon, lets not get delusional now. There's no way that content in 30 years is still going to play over a HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 connection. They'll obsolete that as soon as TV sales start to dry up and they need to force another round of upgrading to boost sales.
It will probably be 10-20 years b4 4k is a network feed. Most people are very happy with 1080P, including the networks that would have to spend billions when they just purchased their 1080i set ups a few years back. We will be lucky if there is 1080 P over the air in 10 years.
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post #4969 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 11:48 AM
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Thanks guys, I just went and streamed it on the oled(using thx) and my vt30 and it looked like crap on all of them
Agree it's the source, amazons streaming is so bad it will freeze periodically and wait for the video to load

I'm going to setup a DVr recording and switch to that when I catch up, pretty good series so far
Number one rule of thumb, if it looks bad on am OLED it will look worse on another display.
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post #4970 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
I'm not so sure a 5000 65" of any technology would rattle the market now that I've seen how low the 2ks have reached in price. It's making me rethink everything regarding price. This will be interesting to be sure.

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I agree with tgm. I don't think $5000 tvs will rattle any significant market. Has it ever? It maybe be a price point some people on internet av forums are willing to pay but other people who don't know anything about tvs won't even consider a high price like that. Kuros didn't attract average joes and the died off. Tvs that live in magnolia shows rooms don't tend to fly off the shelves.

We can only hope manufacturing prices decline as sales increase. Sales increase as thing become more affordable to the masses.
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post #4971 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Correct a $5000 4K OLED would rattle the market. Who would buy a XBR-65X950B even for the same cost ?

Good - thanks for the clarification (and by the way, I totally agree, at least as far as the XBR-65X950B :-)


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Here is to hoping the 4K OLED's drop like the 55EA9800......

I'll drink to that!
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post #4972 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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If it was 65"? Yes of course, you still have to consider lifespan of OLED being 10 years and LED being 30 years.
.
So do you know someone who has a 30 year old LED ? They just started making them mainstream 8 years ago......... Case closed.

Everything fails, its a matter of what day.........Name a brand, I will name a client with a unit that did not last 2 years .
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post #4973 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 02:39 PM
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So do you know someone who has a 30 year old LED ? They just started making them mainstream 8 years ago......... Case closed.
You understand the idea of accelerated life testing a high temperature based on the Arrhenius equation right? It's not all smoke and mirrors.
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post #4974 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 03:04 PM
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55EC9300 on LG website. $2000 cheaper than EA9800. Interesting.
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post #4975 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 04:55 PM
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Direct link: http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-55EC9300-oled-tv
Looks beautiful. Finally a more normal looking stand.
Though I wonder what the back looks like.
Does this TV lack USB 3.0? Not that I need it, but I see no mention of it in the technical specifications.

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post #4976 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 05:38 PM
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55EC9300 on LG website. $2000 cheaper than EA9800. Interesting.

Is this a gen-2 product?

Last edited by fafrd; 07-12-2014 at 05:49 PM. Reason: typo
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post #4977 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 05:46 PM
 
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Officially, yes. Not the SRP you were hoping for a 1080p 55" panel, I take it.

Has anyone successfully purchased an LG service plan for this panel? If so, please give me some pointers before I call them back again (Monday most likely). It's impossible for there to be no SKU available on a 1-year-old model.
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post #4978 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 05:49 PM
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Is this gen-2 product?
Yes. It is the replacement for the 55EA9800.
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post #4979 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 05:57 PM
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Good looking tv the new one
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post #4980 of 6977 Old 07-12-2014, 06:10 PM
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Yes. It is the replacement for the 55EA9800.

Thanks. Will be eagerly awaiting first owner reviews (guess someone will need to start another thread, though :-)
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