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post #5401 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Betcha it's sooner than 10 years.
My guess is that it will be like HD at the start minus the OTA broadcasters. Something like 5-10 channels in 2 years. ESPN 4k, HBO 4k, Discovery 4k etc. Direct TV will force cable to offer channels as well. Probably offer 4k package for modest fee. Netfix, Amazon others perhaps Apple will offer Over the Top via internet. No OTA due to cost which is why I think Cnet says nasty things about 4k since they are owned by CBS.
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post #5402 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 02:33 PM
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This is good news
http://hdguru.com/panasonic-and-sony...re/#more-14051
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post #5403 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
Wonder how much these retailers have in each unit?
you can guess less than Microcenter was selling them for...

I think they sold a lot of them and I cant believe they were losing money on all those TV's they sold


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post #5404 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bigcoupe2003 View Post
really?..two companies that are both losing money on their TV business

I would read this as a financial need to cover costs and minimize loses( over two companies) should they occur

for example I bet you would never see Samsung and LG do this....


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post #5405 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Betcha it's sooner than 10 years.
not that I really watch OTA

but what makes you think so?......its been almost a decade and they are not broadcasting in 1080P yet

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post #5406 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
you can guess less than Microcenter was selling them for...

I think they sold a lot of them and I cant believe they were losing money on all those TV's they sold


Warren
Agree with you. I doubt that even though Lg gave them approval to sell at $2k, they would have knowing that they would be taking a loss
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post #5407 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by grizzledbiker View Post
Everyone tends to defend their expensive purchase decision especially when something new comes along that may make that purchase soon obsolete. Happens all the time. You should have heard the guys defend their expensive CRT's.
the expensive CRT's...I am talking the Sony XBR of that time was a very good picture

34"...but still better than many Tv's today...especially the LCD's


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post #5408 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by bigcoupe2003 View Post
I guess if you're looking for another OLED tablet it's good news, but if you're interest is large screen 4K OLEDs, not so much.
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post #5409 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
not that I really watch OTA

but what makes you think so?......its been almost a decade and they are not broadcasting in 1080P yet
Because you're assuming the broadcasters see the same advantage in 1080p as they do in 4K. I doubt they ever saw much was to be gained in broadcasting in 1080p. Jumping to 4K is quite another story.
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post #5410 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Because you're assuming the broadcasters see the same advantage in 1080p as they do in 4K. I doubt they ever saw much was to be gained in broadcasting in 1080p. Jumping to 4K is quite another story.

Is this is the gain in 4K they will see too spend Billions?

"I could not see any major differences in detail. Yes, looking very closely at the gold embroidery of the tablecloth I detected the slightest bit of extra resolution and clarity on the 4K sets, and the legs of the lobster and the flesh of the duck appeared oh-so-subtly sharper. But those differences were anything but "major."

Moving back to a seating distance of about 8.5 feet, even those vanishingly small differences vanished."
David Katzmaier CNET. Sony XBR-X900B series Review Date: June 24, 2014

Last edited by Vegas oled; 08-01-2014 at 08:22 PM.
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post #5411 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Because you're assuming the broadcasters see the same advantage in 1080p as they do in 4K. I doubt they ever saw much was to be gained in broadcasting in 1080p. Jumping to 4K is quite another story.
actually

I am assuming the broadcasters are businessmen whose first priority is profit

So..if they do the averages of the amount of people that own a 4K TV and the amount it will cost them to broadcast in 4K...versus the 720P/1080i they are doing now

add in the amount of people that even utilize OTA and how they might fit in the 4K TV ownership group and then look at what investment they have to make

hmmm....based on what I have seen about how large the screen has to be before you can really see the advantage of 4K

I would bet against you on OTA adopting 4K anytime soon

Added to this...the masses that are buying mid range panels at Walmart will not have 4K anytime soon


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post #5412 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Vegas oled View Post
Is this is the gain in 4K they will see too spend Billions?

"I could not see any major differences in detail. Yes, looking very closely at the gold embroidery of the tablecloth I detected the slightest bit of extra resolution and clarity on the 4K sets, and the legs of the lobster and the flesh of the duck appeared oh-so-subtly sharper. But those differences were anything but "major."

Moving back to a seating distance of about 8.5 feet, even those vanishingly small differences vanished."
David Katzmaier CNET. Sony XBR-X900B series Review Date: June 24, 2014
yep

this is why 4K is a LONG ways off for the masses

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post #5413 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 09:07 PM
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Watched a 2 hr lb movie, after it was over, I immediately went to a dark gray slide, where I could see a ghosting of the lb(looked like a faint line that was charged, hard to describe)
I turn the tv off, go shower, come back 15 mins later and go back to the exact same slide
No more ghosting of the lb line
Worriesome yet comforting at the same time
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post #5414 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
yep

this is why 4K is a LONG ways off for the masses

Warren
+1

People will sooner or later find that 4K is highly overrated. The resolution may be getting better but the human eye keeps staying the same.
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post #5415 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 10:21 PM
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Vizio will have a 4k set at Wally world by Christmas.R-Series | VIZIO
http://www.vizio.com/r-series

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post #5416 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 10:46 PM
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Good Lord, that's a 1/10th of a second! Sounds like it needs beefier hardware (faster CPU/faster memory/faster backplane).
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These are 2014 models? If so, that is embarrasing.
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Last years models........
Good catch. I missed one when copying the data from the website because it was so small. Seriously, who buys 49" UHD sets!?

49″ LG 49UB8500 4K 120hz 3D LED HDTV – 64ms Bad

So this 2014 model is improved vs. the 2013 models at 100ms but still poor compared to your average 1080p set. It is also 120Hz vs. 240Hz so that might explain some of the reduced processing lag. I don't follow LED reviews so if anyone has numbers for other 2014 240Hz LG sets, please post.
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post #5417 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 11:01 PM
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Even if 4k wont take off u do get a much needed full hd with passive 3d glasses.
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post #5418 of 6990 Old 08-01-2014, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by grizzledbiker View Post
Vizio will have a 4k set at Wally world by Christmas.R-Series | VIZIO
http://www.vizio.com/r-series

Link doesn't work.
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post #5419 of 6990 Old 08-02-2014, 12:51 AM
 
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Copy/paste will get you there: http://www.vizio.com/r-series

I'd be surprised if Walmart carries Vizio's highest end model, assuming it sees release.
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post #5420 of 6990 Old 08-02-2014, 05:01 AM
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They'll have this in stores > http://www.vizio.com/p-series and have their FALD "R" reference series on their website. But it's not curved and no 3D. Certainly not as elegant as the LG OLED.

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post #5421 of 6990 Old 08-02-2014, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Vegas oled View Post
Is this is the gain in 4K they will see too spend Billions?

"I could not see any major differences in detail. Yes, looking very closely at the gold embroidery of the tablecloth I detected the slightest bit of extra resolution and clarity on the 4K sets, and the legs of the lobster and the flesh of the duck appeared oh-so-subtly sharper. But those differences were anything but "major."

Moving back to a seating distance of about 8.5 feet, even those vanishingly small differences vanished."
David Katzmaier CNET. Sony XBR-X900B series Review Date: June 24, 2014
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. We understand C-Net is owned by CBS and they don't like 4K. The invasion force, gentlemen, is already in the channel. But don't really think it's much of a threat . . yet.

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post #5422 of 6990 Old 08-02-2014, 05:54 AM
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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. We understand C-Net is owned by CBS and they don't like 4K. The invasion force, gentlemen, is already in the channel.
David Katzmier is actually one of the most impartial A/V reviewer I have seen

He is not the only one that has said this

There have been countless articles commenting on the capability of 20/20 vision to perceive 4K

From what I have read you need a screen of at least 80" or be inches away from one of the smaller screen to see the difference in detail

Now..if you were a hawk then you would have a serious advantage

I dont thin the masses are going to jump on 4K television
This will be a niche product for a long time

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post #5423 of 6990 Old 08-02-2014, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
David Katzmier is actually one of the most impartial A/V reviewer I have seen

He is not the only one that has said this

There have been countless articles commenting on the capability of 20/20 vision to perceive 4K

From what I have read you need a screen of at least 80" or be inches away from one of the smaller screen to see the difference in detail

Now..if you were a hawk then you would have a serious advantage

I dont thin the masses are going to jump on 4K television
This will be a niche product for a long time

Warren
4k won't take a long time. In 2-3 years all mid priced and above LCDs will be 4k. IMO within 5 years 2k sets other than the cheapest will be as hard to find as 720p sets are today. 4k is more marketing than a real benefit in many instances but producing 4k LCDs costs little more than 2k.

Regarding your previous comment on 1080p, 1080i deinterlaced properly has as good PQ as 1080p for a given bit rate. The difference is OTA, cable/sat are limited to around 19 mbit max and most is sent out at a lot less than that. 2k BD is around 45 mbit max.
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post #5424 of 6990 Old 08-02-2014, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by dsinger View Post
4k is more marketing than a real benefit in many instances but producing 4k LCDs costs little more than 2k.

Regarding your previous comment on 1080p, 1080i deinterlaced properly has as good PQ as 1080p for a given bit rate. The difference is OTA, cable/sat are limited to around 19 mbit max and most is sent out at a lot less than that. 2k BD is around 45 mbit max.
I will agree with your marketing statement

If the market will be flooded with these 4K Tv's as you say...then that would mean they would need to be priced at( or below) where 2K sets are

.in a shrinking industry where they are trying to get something new and enticing, each year, to get the public to buy another TV....and charge more for

The only way they will move these 4K Tv's to the masses is price them at the same price as 2K
Something I don't think is a good thing for the TV industry


The other part is broadcasting..OTA...Cable..satellite
what cost is involved in their switching to higher resolution...and in the case of cable/satellite does 4K capability add more to your already crazy monthly bill?

So..if Direct Tv says it will cost $25.00 more a month to get 4K...and then you have to go out and buy a capable TV
Then arguably your eye cant perceive the difference if the screen is under 80 inches..or you are inches away from your screen

I dont know...a few hurdles there

especially when much of what see today is not even 1080P ...and that format has been around for years

Think about it....a good 720 plasma at 50" or under...is a very good Tv for 90% of viewing

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post #5425 of 6990 Old 08-02-2014, 07:46 AM
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From what I have read you need a screen of at least 80" or be inches away from one of the smaller screen to see the difference in detail
Warren - argue as you may, the wife and I (60's) can readily see the difference between a 1080 set and a 4k. And that's looking at a 55-65" set from our normal viewing distance of 8ft. It's not psychological and it's not perceived. It's there. And I have glaucoma & some cataracts with 1/4 vision loss in left eye.
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post #5426 of 6990 Old 08-02-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by grizzledbiker View Post
Warren - argue as you may, the wife and I (60's) can readily see the difference between a 1080 set and a 4k. And that's looking at a 55-65" set from our normal viewing distance of 8ft. It's not psychological and it's not perceived. It's there. And I have glaucoma & some cataracts with 1/4 vision loss in left eye.
well....then both you and your wife would have to have far better than 20/20 vision

Its just science..pure and simple

You can look up the data on the capability of human eyesight

Its nothing I made up




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post #5427 of 6990 Old 08-02-2014, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Vegas oled View Post
Is this is the gain in 4K they will see too spend Billions?

"I could not see any major differences in detail. Yes, looking very closely at the gold embroidery of the tablecloth I detected the slightest bit of extra resolution and clarity on the 4K sets, and the legs of the lobster and the flesh of the duck appeared oh-so-subtly sharper. But those differences were anything but "major."

Moving back to a seating distance of about 8.5 feet, even those vanishingly small differences vanished."
David Katzmaier CNET. Sony XBR-X900B series Review Date: June 24, 2014
You are funny Vegas. A few weeks ago you were raving about detail in 4K, but now that you've rediscovered OLED, not so much. So now you're quoting David, who we both know is not a big fan of 4K. That's been made clear time and time again. Yet many other reviews DO point out the significant gains.

We both know that good 4K looks spectacular and no revisionist history will change that. Yes, you need large display and/or closer seating distances, but to minimize the gains in PQ at this point is just a bit disingenuous.
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post #5428 of 6990 Old 08-02-2014, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 5x10 View Post
Watched a 2 hr lb movie, after it was over, I immediately went to a dark gray slide, where I could see a ghosting of the lb(looked like a faint line that was charged, hard to describe)
I turn the tv off, go shower, come back 15 mins later and go back to the exact same slide
No more ghosting of the lb line
Worriesome yet comforting at the same time
Worrisome ? Really ? My goodness there are many things worth worrying about, that is not one of them

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Originally Posted by grizzledbiker View Post
They'll have this in stores > http://www.vizio.com/p-series and have their FALD "R" reference series on their website. But it's not curved and no 3D. Certainly not as elegant as the LG OLED.
You also forgot to add that the P series does not have enough local dimming zones from the specs I have seen to be a true contender. The P series will behave more like a Edge lit TV.

We will see how the R series looks, Just because it Says FALD does not mean its a good display........

To be honest, I do not think Samsung or Sony are shaking in there boots, but I guess we will see if they should be. I know LG OLED is not, that's a fact !

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post #5429 of 6990 Old 08-02-2014, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
actually

I am assuming the broadcasters are businessmen whose first priority is profit

So..if they do the averages of the amount of people that own a 4K TV and the amount it will cost them to broadcast in 4K...versus the 720P/1080i they are doing now

add in the amount of people that even utilize OTA and how they might fit in the 4K TV ownership group and then look at what investment they have to make

hmmm....based on what I have seen about how large the screen has to be before you can really see the advantage of 4K

I would bet against you on OTA adopting 4K anytime soon

Added to this...the masses that are buying mid range panels at Walmart will not have 4K anytime soon


Warren
Warren, most of these arguments were the very same arguments being used when we moved from SD to HD. In fact, many articles were written asking if HD would even survive!

Nope, sorry, I believe 4K will not only survive, but flourish and the broadcasters will not want to be outdone by the likes of Netflix and company.

What I haven't seen is how the cost of going from SD to HD compares with going from HD to 4K. I could be wrong, but it may not be as quite an undertaking. The transition from SD to HD was absolutely huge in terms of complexity and cost.

Being someone who always likes to see this hobby advance, I'm sure hoping the broadcasters get onboard sooner than later. In fact, DirecTV is already readying their 4K 'on-demand' services for THIS YEAR. It's coming guys, it's coming.
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