LG 55EA9800 55" OLED Owner's thread - Page 186 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5551 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 06:38 AM
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I see the EC9300 is on sale at BB. Although still a pre-order. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-55-cl...&skuId=7846019 Obviously priced to sell. It is very tempting.

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post #5552 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 07:59 AM
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I see the EC9300 is on sale at BB. Although still a pre-order. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-55-cl...&skuId=7846019 Obviously priced to sell. It is very tempting.
Wow, very good price on the new model
Good news for all interested in oled, prices are coming down!
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post #5553 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 08:14 AM
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I was on AVS when HD was brand new

big difference between then and now

Science could readily prove the superiority of HD over SD using the the parameters of 20/20 vision

That does not exist with UHD over HD
I and others disagree. My own eyes show the obvious superiority and the cited research showed that 49 out of 50 could recognize 4K on a screen size and distance where 'science' says it could not. Look, I have a science background and would never argue with 'good' science, but there are times when not all science is 'good' (especially these days when science tends to do 180s all the time). What's important to me is that to my eyes the 4K image is easily recognizable at sizes and distances I will entertain in my own home and 49 out of 50 were able to see it on sizes and distances where the 'science' says it shouldn't. I'll take that over a chart where there are too many variables to take that chart as the gospel.

The bottom line is you can't see the difference, so don't buy it. No brainer. I can see the difference and thus I do intend to buy it. No brainer.
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Completely different business climate then as well. Sony , Panasonic and Toshiba ( and others) were all very profitable in their Tv business then
Profits allow companies to invest in new platforms

That does not exist today. I predict another Tv manufacturer( or two) will bow out in the next couple of years. These companies will not continue to operate in the red and few of these guys (Sony, Panasonic) have got to turn their ships around

But hey..I hope you are right
You clearly choose to ignore both science and business climate

Warren
Yes, I agree it is a different business climate, but you missed my point. Regardless of who is left standing in the TV business, the Koreans, the Japanese or the Chinese, 4K will be part of the display equation. Bet on it. And, as has been mentioned, the other difference is the far lesser cost of UHD TVs than HDTVs of the time.

As for 'ignoring science', I've already told you I don't believe one chart is the final word on the 'science' behind being able to see 4K. The cited research, review after review and my own eyes (as well as many others) say otherwise.

As I said, we're beating a dead horse here. If you can't see it, don't buy it, if you can then it's certainly worth considering.
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post #5554 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 08:28 AM
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Might be fun, but no, I don't work for a TV manufacturer. I do know a thing or two about manufacturing, though.


And while I rarely make it to Wallmart, I can confirm that my local Costco has started to carry 4K TV's which was an important milestone for me to accept that the 4K floodgates are now open.


Of all the transitions we have been through over the past decade or more, the transition from 1080p to 4K seems like it will be most similar to the transition from 720p to 1080p...
Bingo. Every Costco I've been to has Samsung UHD TVs prominently displayed. I'm sure once the first UHD TV appears at Walmart, some will argue "well, it's only one model". And on it goes. It's rapidly getting to the point where the UHD TVs will be outnumbering the HDTVs at BB.

It's hard to believe anyone can be arguing against the inevitability of 4K. You don't have to like it, but it is coming like it or not. I'll never understand why some appear to be opposed to an improved technology, but it's not the first time I've seen this.
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post #5555 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post
Loving my OLED more and more everyday! This tv continues to impress and I'm so glad I exchanged it for the set I have now. The yellow tint while watching content is nowhere to be found. I thought maybe I was being overly critical at first but the more I watched, the more it drove me crazy. Especially after seeing it in the store again with the yellow tint nowhere to be found.

Another thing, this has better viewing angles than my previous one. At the most extreme angle I could stand, there was little to no difference in the picture whereas my first one looked completely different from the side. OLED is the future of displays and I look forward to a larger 4K version in the future. Especially if I can snatch it at a Microcenter deal like I did this one :-)
That's good to hear, congrats. It's weird the viewing angles would be better.

Did you check your manufacturing date of the new set vs the old one?
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post #5556 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
OTA( as well as most paid services) are still not 1080P...after all these years


Warren
IMO it makes little sense for broadcasters or paid providers to transmit 1080p when the deinterlacing in today's TVs is so good. You would gain very little.
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post #5557 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I and others disagree. My own eyes show the obvious superiority and the cited research showed that 49 out of 50 could recognize 4K on a screen size and distance where 'science' says it could not. Look, I have a science background and would never argue with 'good' science, but there are times when not all science is 'good' (especially these days when science tends to do 180s all the time). What's important to me is that to my eyes the 4K image is easily recognizable at sizes and distances I will entertain in my own home and 49 out of 50 were able to see it on sizes and distances where the 'science' says it shouldn't. I'll take that over a chart where there are too many variables to take that chart as the gospel.

The bottom line is you can't see the difference, so don't buy it. No brainer. I can see the difference and thus I do intend to buy it. No brainer.


Yes, I agree it is a different business climate, but you missed my point. Regardless of who is left standing in the TV business, the Koreans, the Japanese or the Chinese, 4K will be part of the display equation. Bet on it. And, as has been mentioned, the other difference is the far lesser cost of UHD TVs than HDTVs of the time.

As for 'ignoring science', I've already told you I don't believe one chart is the final word on the 'science' behind being able to see 4K. The cited research, review after review and my own eyes (as well as many others) say otherwise.

As I said, we're beating a dead horse here. If you can't see it, don't buy it, if you can then it's certainly worth considering.
Ken

I have enjoyed your posts for years and insight on specific TV's ...at least a couple I have later purchased

Hopefully you dont think I am against 4K?...its not the case

To your point ,if you can see the difference...regardless of any chart...science etc..you should buy into it
If you dont...then dont buy it
I completely agree with that

However...dont try to use an industry business case or science to prove your point as compared to the SD to HD transition
Its not working

Just say you like it...buy it for your own use and the rest be damned..LOL

Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Marantz 8801 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp B&W CM10s..CM2 center...CM5's.rears
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Denon 4520 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Pioneer SC77 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
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post #5558 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
And anyone hinting that WOLED TVs are as mature as LED/LCD TVs belongs in the looney-bin.
First, what is WOLED ?

Just how much evolving has LCD/LED came Since its release ? Since there release they still have banding, uniformity issues, and motion blur. All have the same issues today. Down the road they changed it to LED edge lit mainly which added Flash lighting to all of these issues. They added FALD which is a great, but very expensive and not enough competition as of this day, today.

OLED is not mature, its the 2nd year out, but I will take one over an LCD/LED any day
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post #5559 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 09:25 AM
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55 & 77EC9300 owners manual doesn't say much http://www.lg.com/us/support-product/lg-55EC9300#
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post #5560 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 09:49 AM
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Ken

I have enjoyed your posts for years and insight on specific TV's ...at least a couple I have later purchased
Thanks, hopefully you've enjoyed those sets!
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Hopefully you dont think I am against 4K?...its not the case
Not sure if the proper word is 'against' as opposed to 'don't appreciate'. I think you fall in the latter, but I could be wrong.
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To your point ,if you can see the difference...regardless of any chart...science etc..you should buy into it
If you dont...then dont buy it
I completely agree with that
My thought was that I don't necessarily accept that chart as the holy grail of 4K or even, necessarily, 'science'. There are simply too many variables. That chart is simply a very broad generalization that can apply in many instances and may not in others. I seem to recall that chart being refuted 'scientifically', but I can't recall where. Again, too many variables for that being the drop dead decider of 4K's viability.
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However...dont try to use an industry business case or science to prove your point as compared to the SD to HD transition
Its not working

Just say you like it...buy it for your own use and the rest be damned..LOL

Warren
As I've said, whether you agree with the parallels to the 'SD to HD transition' or not, the 'industry business case' or not or 'science' or not, it's really moot, 4K is coming. That's the important point and that's the bottom line. It doesn't even pay to argue the fine details here.
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post #5561 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 10:19 AM
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That's good to hear, congrats. It's weird the viewing angles would be better.

Did you check your manufacturing date of the new set vs the old one?
Thanks Ken. I agree with you. It is strange that the viewing angles would be better on this one. The only thought I have is that because the yellow tint was visible to me from any angle, it was even more pronounced from the side. It was like a completely different picture from the side and now I would say it only changes about 10%. The previous tv had a manufacture date of April 2014 and this one is February 2014.

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post #5562 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 10:39 AM
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Perhaps April was a bad mnt as my was made april 2014 aswell
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post #5563 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 10:53 AM
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OLED is not mature, its the 2nd year out, but I will take one over an LCD/LED any day
Now that plasma is no longer being made, I think that almost everyone here would do the same. It is the price/performance ratio most here have a problem with. You add to that the IR and dead pixel problem and combine it with longevity question and people take the wait and see approach. When people pay top dollar they rightfully demand perfection and this is something the OLED can not currently deliver. You have people returning sets for uniformity and other issues they would hardly notice in regular viewing because of the premium price. If they can not quickly increase yields and lower the price, OLED will remain a high end niche product or be discontinued altogether like the Elite and Kuro before. No matter how much of a halo product it is it comes down to sales and profit. LG is currently selling 100,000 4K panels a week versus a best case scenario 8,000 OLEDs a week from their new M2 line. Once we hear that LG has licensed the tech to others or they announce production or major conversion of an existing factory can we feel safe that OLED will stick around and wind up in most of our homes.
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post #5564 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 12:31 PM
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First, what is WOLED ?

White OLED (the LG/Kodak OLED technology, as opposed to the Samsung RGB OLED technology)

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Just how much evolving has LCD/LED came Since its release ? Since there release they still have banding, uniformity issues, and motion blur. All have the same issues today. Down the road they changed it to LED edge lit mainly which added Flash lighting to all of these issues. They added FALD which is a great, but very expensive and not enough competition as of this day, today.

You seem to be confusing maturity with quality.


Quality encompasses known problems and limitations of the technology (and LED/LCD certainly has its fair share of drawbacks in the quality department).


Maturity encompasses the unknown especially including changes in the technology over time.


With LED/LCD, there may be aspects of the picture quality you are not happy with, but you can be pretty sure that the picture you see on the day before the TV dies is essentially the same as the picture you see on the day you bought the set. And that will be true regardless of how much you watch it and what content is shown.


With WOLED, the picture may be the most fantastic image you have ever seen on the first day you own it, but we are a long way from having the same confidence that that picture will remain as stunning through the lifetime of the set, exactly what that usable lifetime is, and what special 'care and feeding' requirements WOLED has in terms of being careful with content to assure that that stunning image quality remains as stunning as possible for as long as possible.

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OLED is not mature, its the 2nd year out, but I will take one over an LCD/LED any day

And there are hopefully many others (possibly including me :-) who will join you in that decision. The real issue in my case (and many others, I suspect), is jumping on WOLED now, versus holding out another year for gen 3, versus picking up a decent LED/LCD as a placeholder until 2016 by which time LG and their WOLED initiative will either have made it over the hump of consumer acceptance or will have crashed in a giant ball of flames.


And in any case, as they say, first world problems, right?
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post #5565 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 12:39 PM
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Now that plasma is no longer being made, I think that almost everyone here would do the same. It is the price/performance ratio most here have a problem with. You add to that the IR and dead pixel problem and combine it with longevity question and people take the wait and see approach. When people pay top dollar they rightfully demand perfection and this is something the OLED can not currently deliver. You have people returning sets for uniformity and other issues they would hardly notice in regular viewing because of the premium price. If they can not quickly increase yields and lower the price, OLED will remain a high end niche product or be discontinued altogether like the Elite and Kuro before. No matter how much of a halo product it is it comes down to sales and profit. LG is currently selling 100,000 4K panels a week versus a best case scenario 8,000 OLEDs a week from their new M2 line. Once we hear that LG has licensed the tech to others or they announce production or major conversion of an existing factory can we feel safe that OLED will stick around and wind up in most of our homes.

26,000 sheets per month = 6500 sheets per week


6500 sheets per week x 6 55" WOLEDs per sheet = 39,000 55" WOLEDs per week (unyielded).


39,000 55" WOLEDs per week x 80% yield = 31,200 55" WOLEDs per week from LGs new M2 line.


You are off by almost a factor of 4 and this highlights the challenge LG is facing in ramping up WOLED sales from the 'thousands per year' level where they have been up to now to the 'hundreds of thousands per year' where they need to be soon after M2 is fully ramped up.


My view is that, once we see the price of the 55" WOLED return to below $2K and the price of the 65" WOLED drop below $4K.we can start to have confidence that LG WOLED will be around for a while.
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post #5566 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
White OLED (the LG/Kodak OLED technology, as opposed to the Samsung RGB OLED technology)




You seem to be confusing maturity with quality.


Quality encompasses known problems and limitations of the technology (and LED/LCD certainly has its fair share of drawbacks in the quality department).


Maturity encompasses the unknown especially including changes in the technology over time.


With LED/LCD, there may be aspects of the picture quality you are not happy with, but you can be pretty sure that the picture you see on the day before the TV dies is essentially the same as the picture you see on the day you bought the set. And that will be true regardless of how much you watch it and what content is shown.


With WOLED, the picture may be the most fantastic image you have ever seen on the first day you own it, but we are a long way from having the same confidence that that picture will remain as stunning through the lifetime of the set, exactly what that usable lifetime is, and what special 'care and feeding' requirements WOLED has in terms of being careful with content to assure that that stunning image quality remains as stunning as possible for as long as possible.




And there are hopefully many others (possibly including me :-) who will join you in that decision. The real issue in my case (and many others, I suspect), is jumping on WOLED now, versus holding out another year for gen 3, versus picking up a decent LED/LCD as a placeholder until 2016 by which time LG and their WOLED initiative will either have made it over the hump of consumer acceptance or will have crashed in a giant ball of flames.


And in any case, as they say, first world problems, right?
That's why I suggest people to buy the best warranty they possibly can with this new technology. I bought a five year warranty with mine and so glad I did. If I have an issue a couple two or three years from now, well that means I've been able to enjoy OLED up until then and I'll get a newer generation OLED without having to spend extra. That's my advice for anyone on the fence. Get a great warranty then sit back, relax and watch the best display you can at the moment :-)

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post #5567 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 02:26 PM
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And there are hopefully many others (possibly including me :-) who will join you in that decision. The real issue in my case (and many others, I suspect), is jumping on WOLED now, versus holding out another year for gen 3, versus picking up a decent LED/LCD as a placeholder until 2016 by which time LG and their WOLED initiative will either have made it over the hump of consumer acceptance or will have crashed in a giant ball of flames.
I have one other issue that is not related to the LG per se, but rather to anything not Sony and most don't seem to have it as part of their decision making process. In a word 'content'.

Nobody has the content like Sony and at this point Sony is not making their content available for non-Sony UHD TVs. But with that said, if the 77" 4K OLED were the right price, I'd be hard pressed not to go in that direction based purely on PQ. I was hoping for the 79" Sony 900B, but it's very tough making decisions when you really can't determine black levels. Not having seen OLED in a totally dark room doesn't concern me for obvious reasons. Not so the 79" Sony, the 78" Samsung or the 85" Samsung. Wouldn't it be nice to have the Sony in the shootout?
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post #5568 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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You add to that the IR and dead pixel problem and combine it with longevity question and people take the wait and see approach.
If you reread this thread there are complaints. There are no more complaints that are found on every other TV on AVS at worst. So lets be real here, OLED has no more issues than any other product line. I will go a step further as well and say there are less complaints on this thread than other products lines from the reading I have done, I could be wrong, but I read a lot on here . Not to mention we had many, many new user come in the last 2 months just singing praise.
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When people pay top dollar they rightfully demand perfection and this is something the OLED can not currently deliver.
I have seen many high end units come and go, like the Pioneer Kuro plasma, Elite LED, and many more, none of those delivered perfection. Pioneer plasma was great but had purple snakes. Elite had a huge Bug in the color, Blue if I remember right. What about a high priced unit that was claimed to be high end and no where near it, like the the Samsung UN75ES8000 for example, it was an edge lit TV for $8999 The Sharp 80" was about as good and half the price. This OLED technology is about the first technology that has offered many HUGE advancements and it can not deliver ? It is delivering .

Are you an OLED owner ? I wish I could send you an OLED for 3 months....... seeing is believing....


Longevity is always a question, even for Plasma and LED. Plasma has been mainstream for 10 years, LED's about 8 years, How long are these going to last in the long run, They say 100,000 hours, none of the sets rated at 100,000 are even close to that kinda usage even if they where on 24-7. We will see, only estimates where given by manufacturers who produce them....Kinda Biased if you ask me.
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post #5569 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 08:01 PM
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If you reread this thread there are few complaints. There are no more complaints that are found on every other TV on AVS at worst. So lets be real here, OLED has no more issues than any other product line. I will go a step further as well and say there are less complaints on this thread than other products lines . Not to mention we had many, many new user come in the last 2 months just singing praise.

Longevity is always a question, even for Plasma and LED. Plasma has been mainstream for 10 years, LED's about 8 years, How long are these going to last in the long run, we will see, only estimates where given by manufacturers who produce them....
I was surprised about the amount of complaints in the other threads and now realize that no brand or type of tv is bulletproof
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post #5570 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 08:29 PM
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Of course the salesman tells you there are no problems...
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post #5571 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 08:32 PM
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Amen Cleveland!!! No tv is perfect nor will there ever be one in the future that is either. OLED is such a huge advancement in my opinion right now that if someone is able to find a good deal, GO FOR IT! I haven't left my house all weekend because I can't stop watching it. Hmmmmmmmmm...... Maybe this is the biggest issue with the tv yet :-)
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post #5572 of 7301 Old 08-03-2014, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^ I see posts time and time again from people who have not played with an OLED saying this and that. Once you see it, there is no explaining the Pure bliss. Not to mention a 4K 65" for $6250 at release, man I can not wait, rather have that 2015 Corvette Z07 though
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I was surprised about the amount of complaints in the other threads and now realize that no brand or type of tv is bulletproof
I know you got one of these for $2000. LOL, lets try to convince you your OLED is not delivering.........I bet a day does not go by that you do not think you stole your TV

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Of course the salesman tells you there are no problems...
A few bad units does not mean there is a problem right ? Read my posts, I always say, there are no perfect TV's . However myself and more important Chad B feels, this is the best TV made to date... I guess its an opinion in the end

Talk about main stream product right ? Lets talk about durability ? Lets talk about longevity ? A lot of these new smart phone from the past and present are using OLED screens, just found this out last week . Learn something everyday, if you are willing to learn, that is. I for one am not stubborn, teach me I will be honest, I learn more here on AVS from my brothers and sisters than anywhere else. I do read between the lines though.
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Last edited by Cleveland Plasma; 08-03-2014 at 08:44 PM.
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post #5573 of 7301 Old 08-04-2014, 08:25 AM
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This thread has a really negative vibe :/

People defending their non-purchase vs. people defending their purchase...
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post #5574 of 7301 Old 08-04-2014, 08:31 AM
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This thread has a really negative vibe :/

People defending their non-purchase vs. people defending their purchase...
Broken theory. What of the people who did buy it and had problems? Don't answer that, we'll just end up with folks chiming in with this "they could have turned it off" business all over again.

Besides, all product model threads contain a negative slant. It's one of the reasons that I thank people in the R550A thread (my TV) for posting positive comments about the TV even though I personally cannot stand the thing. Except for the very high end Sonys, I am not a good match for LCD.

Roses are red,
and while that is true,
Violets are violet,
and not @#$%ing blue.
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post #5575 of 7301 Old 08-04-2014, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
I have seen many high end units come and go, like the Pioneer Kuro plasma, Elite LED, and many more,g .
.
very true

the question is will this one join the group?

The lifespan of displays has gotten so short...by that I mean the public's attention span..not the longevity of the panel
Added to that more than 90% of the market seems to be fine with an edge lit LED...one that is not particularly high end at that

These prices are going to have to come WAY down for this technology to survive

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post #5576 of 7301 Old 08-04-2014, 09:07 AM
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These prices are going to have to come WAY down for this technology to survive

Warren
looks like its happening right now, new 55' oled starts at $3k-$3500, compared to last years start of 15k, or compared to the street price of $4-5k once prices settled(on the 13 model)
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post #5577 of 7301 Old 08-04-2014, 09:09 AM
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I was surprised about the amount of complaints in the other threads and now realize that no brand or type of tv is bulletproof
yup

The complaints and run of the mill dead pixel issues here are so much more mild compared to the more expensive Sony sets - their thread has pure horror.
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post #5578 of 7301 Old 08-04-2014, 09:15 AM
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yup

The complaints and run of the mill dead pixel issues here are so much more mild compared to the more expensive Sony sets - their thread has pure horror.
im surprised as its a solid company producing a very mature technology, guess the large screen sizes have their own issues that werent there with the smaller sizes

im not sure why people are so hard on oled.It might be skepticism in the new technology or the quest for perfection that comes with a high sticker price.
Maybe complaints will come down with prices?
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post #5579 of 7301 Old 08-04-2014, 09:18 AM
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looks like its happening right now, new 55' oled starts at $3k-$3500, compared to last years start of 15k, or compared to the street price of $4-5k once prices settled(on the 13 model)
actually I was thinking more of the Microcenter price of $1999 for the 55"

even then its a small market when you can buy a pretty good edge led( as far as that technology goes) for under $1000

I certainly hope they didnt actually sell units at 15K..or even half that much

Someone that just blows off taking a $7-10K hit in 6 months on a TV...not a large one at that has got to be making pro athlete/corporate executive type of coin

too rich for my wallet
I will keep trolling Microcenter...


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post #5580 of 7301 Old 08-04-2014, 09:26 AM
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after seeing the 2014 models release price, i do wonder if the microcenter sale was a market analysis, to see what prices it took to move the tvs
would also throw frys $3k sale into it
Sams club considered their $4k price a sales price, normally $5k

not that ive been in the market of watching tv prices for very long, but the pricing on the 13' model still confuses me with all of its roller coaster pricing
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