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OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

mr. wally's Avatar mr. wally
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11-05-2013 | Posts: 3,844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I hope you're right about the curve not being intrusive.  Because this photo above makes me cringe.


that's just the ghost effect from star wars
slacker711's Avatar slacker711
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LG has cut the price to $8999 as a "holiday promotion".
vaktmestern's Avatar vaktmestern
11:12 AM Liked: 181
post #33 of 7139
11-06-2013 | Posts: 1,191
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Like the Lg design better than Samsungs ugly frame around the screen cool.gif
tgm1024's Avatar tgm1024
06:42 AM Liked: 1049
post #34 of 7139
11-07-2013 | Posts: 7,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

There are times when you do not even realize it is curved.......

 

About that very point.  There was a really funny article some months ago at techradar from a guy far crankier than I am about curved screens.

 

He got one thing a wrong about theaters, but he did point out something I find hysterical: If you sit right in the middle you're not distracted by the curve.  It looks flat.  LOL.  Oh too funny.  So to sit in the sweet spot gains you a flat screen?

 

He calls it "the Pringle panel".....LOL.....

 

I know, I know, it's more complicated than that, but not by much.


Cleveland Plasma's Avatar Cleveland Plasma
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post #35 of 7139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slacker711 View Post

LG has cut the price to $8999 as a "holiday promotion".
Pricing is far better than that depending where you look.
rogo's Avatar rogo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Pricing is far better than that depending where you look.

Or as we say in English, "At $9000, it isn't selling."
yamvmax's Avatar yamvmax
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11-08-2013 | Posts: 282
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I would be purchasing one today(yes at this price) if it were flat. This curved crap has me pissed!
rogo's Avatar rogo
12:32 AM Liked: 785
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11-09-2013 | Posts: 30,591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamvmax View Post

I would be purchasing one today(yes at this price) if it were flat. This curved crap has me pissed!

It's interesting that you feel this way. You aren't alone. The hope is that as production moves up next year and the year after, the ability to sell these things on the merits will move with it. In other words, less gimmickry, more good old fashion competition. I think we'll see the return to flatness very soon.
bonzichrille's Avatar bonzichrille
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It's interesting that you feel this way. You aren't alone. The hope is that as production moves up next year and the year after, the ability to sell these things on the merits will move with it. In other words, less gimmickry, more good old fashion competition. I think we'll see the return to flatness very soon.

Im convinced the curve of both OLED screens is due to manufacturing. For some reason, the curve increases yield, both in the hands of LG and Samsung. The reasons provided by the manufacturers just aint true.
vaktmestern's Avatar vaktmestern
09:06 AM Liked: 181
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Seen this tv today eek.gif its stunning ... the curve is really small so cant se the problem.. Do i want one? biggrin.gif ooooh yes
rogo's Avatar rogo
04:25 PM Liked: 785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzichrille View Post

Im convinced the curve of both OLED screens is due to manufacturing. For some reason, the curve increases yield, both in the hands of LG and Samsung.

The curve does not increase yield.

No process benefits from the screen being curved. I am quite familiar with how OLED manufacturing is done and I can assure you that this is the case. Much of the work is done while the substrates are still, in fact, flat.

For LG's method, it would make a total hash of things to try to deposit OLED directly on a curved substrate. For Samsung, trying to move a small mask across a curved substrate would be interesting. I suppose in some universe that might make sense because it would help with the sagging issue, but it would be very difficult to machine-make displays this way. I'm not entirely sure when they are curving, but I'd guess it's very, very late in the game, around the encapsulation stage.
Quote:
The reasons provided by the manufacturers just aint true.

It's being done for marketing.
htwaits's Avatar htwaits
10:10 PM Liked: 482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bonzichrille View Post

Im convinced the curve of both OLED screens is due to manufacturing. For some reason, the curve increases yield, both in the hands of LG and Samsung.

The curve does not increase yield.

No process benefits from the screen being curved. I am quite familiar with how OLED manufacturing is done and I can assure you that this is the case. Much of the work is done while the substrates are still, in fact, flat.

For LG's method, it would make a total hash of things to try to deposit OLED directly on a curved substrate. For Samsung, trying to move a small mask across a curved substrate would be interesting. I suppose in some universe that might make sense because it would help with the sagging issue, but it would be very difficult to machine-make displays this way. I'm not entirely sure when they are curving, but I'd guess it's very, very late in the game, around the encapsulation stage.
Quote:
The reasons provided by the manufacturers just aint true.

It's being done for marketing.
According to my inside (manufacturing side) information ..... It's done for marketing. biggrin.gif
Bill's Avatar Bill
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I've seen the LG, the picture doesn't look realistic. IE, like real life. The picture was too cartoonish and lacked depth. An upgrade from LCD at the same price as LCD but hardly anyone is going to pay a premium for these sets.. including me. For most people the difference is subtle, just like 4K sets.
mr. wally's Avatar mr. wally
12:01 AM Liked: 56
post #44 of 7139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

The curve does not increase yield.

No process benefits from the screen being curved. I am quite familiar with how OLED manufacturing is done and I can assure you that this is the case. Much of the work is done while the substrates are still, in fact, flat.

For LG's method, it would make a total hash of things to try to deposit OLED directly on a curved substrate. For Samsung, trying to move a small mask across a curved substrate would be interesting. I suppose in some universe that might make sense because it would help with the sagging issue, but it would be very difficult to machine-make displays this way. I'm not entirely sure when they are curving, but I'd guess it's very, very late in the game, around the encapsulation stage.
It's being done for marketing.


It's being done cause they can and they need to do something to get you distracted from the price
vaktmestern's Avatar vaktmestern
06:29 AM Liked: 181
post #45 of 7139
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The curve adds class cool.gif
tgm1024's Avatar tgm1024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vaktmestern View Post

The curve adds class cool.gif

 

The curve adds curve.


p5browne's Avatar p5browne
10:46 AM Liked: 236
post #47 of 7139
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Please: Curves on my women, but not on my TVs! (Although 70" 4K Curved might make the Grade!)
irkuck's Avatar irkuck
12:24 PM Liked: 83
post #48 of 7139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Please: Curves on my women, but not on my TVs! (Although 70" 4K Curved might make the Grade!)

With the reports LG is working on TV sets with adjustable curve, it looks everbody will have a chance to match the curves for the taste, call this paradise-on-earth biggrin.gif.
dsinger's Avatar dsinger
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post #49 of 7139
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Will they provide implants? smile.gif
yamvmax's Avatar yamvmax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

According to my inside (manufacturing side) information ..... It's done for marketing. biggrin.gif

Well its VERY stupid marketing. I honestly believe they would be selling more of these if they were flat.
Rich Peterson's Avatar Rich Peterson
08:20 AM Liked: 113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamvmax View Post

Well its VERY stupid marketing. I honestly believe they would be selling more of these if they were flat.

The assumption most posting here seem to be making is that both LG and Samsung made their OLED sets curved because the technology allowed it and it was innovative, but nevertheless it was a mistake and they shouldn't have done it. But the question I have for all of you is, do you really think there was no market research done by either multi-billion dollar conglomerate when curved was chosen for OLED? Really? So when Sony decided to invest in R&D and manufacturing to develop a curved LCD, do you also think that was a mistake?

Well, the good news for all the curved-is-a-mistake members is that LG already announced a flat OLED to be out hopefully pretty soon. And the Panasonic and Sony 4K OLED prototypes are flat so maybe if either ever gets released it will also be flat. Jan 6th is press day at CES so we should know more at least by then.
tgm1024's Avatar tgm1024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yamvmax View Post

Well its VERY stupid marketing. I honestly believe they would be selling more of these if they were flat.

The assumption most posting here seem to be making is that both LG and Samsung made their OLED sets curved because the technology allowed it and it was innovative, but nevertheless it was a mistake and they shouldn't have done it. But the question I have for all of you is, do you really think there was no market research done by either multi-billion dollar conglomerate when curved was chosen for OLED? Really? So when Sony decided to invest in R&D and manufacturing to develop a curved LCD, do you also think that was a mistake?

 

You've completely made the point for we naysayers.  It's BECAUSE they did market research that they decided they would benefit from showing such a "we can too" technology twist.

 

Or are you trying to say that all things that have "market research" result in good ideas for the consumer?


Rich Peterson's Avatar Rich Peterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

You've completely made the point for we naysayers.  It's BECAUSE they did market research that they decided they would benefit from showing such a "we can too" technology twist.

Or are you trying to say that all things that have "market research" result in good ideas for the consumer?

OK, so if I understand this correctly you are suggesting they researched the market and determined that curved OLED would outsell flat OLED but you believe that research was flawed so in reality flat would have outsold curved (all else being equal). Is that a fair statement of your thoughts?
tgm1024's Avatar tgm1024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

You've completely made the point for we naysayers.  It's BECAUSE they did market research that they decided they would benefit from showing such a "we can too" technology twist.

Or are you trying to say that all things that have "market research" result in good ideas for the consumer?

OK, so if I understand this correctly you are suggesting they researched the market and determined that curved OLED would outsell flat OLED but you believe that research was flawed so in reality flat would have outsold curved (all else being equal). Is that a fair statement of your thoughts?

 

No, because you're over simplifying.  They've calculated an advantage to showing up with curved screens now.  Now.  It could well be a calculus that's only valid >now< on the edge of the technology.  Some say that it's because they needed some kind of diversionary gimmick to act as a way of making OLED distinct while it still had such technical issues (cost / burn-in / blur).  Others say (and this is more where I sit) that it's a way of establishing that they're not left behind--that "we too can do it".

 

If what you're saying is that it was bad idea for the consumer, but half justifiable marketing at the time, then yes I can see that.  But if what you're saying is that their marketing analysis is what makes curved a good idea for the consumer, then you're incorrect.


htwaits's Avatar htwaits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamvmax View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

According to my inside (manufacturing side) information ..... It's done for marketing. biggrin.gif

Well its VERY stupid marketing. I honestly believe they would be selling more of these if they were flat.
As stupid as you think they are, it's a fact that very few will buy the first addition of OLED, and they have caused a lot of interest in the new technology. I don't think that either LG or Samsung expected to sell these particular sets to anyone who doesn't look a the current price as pocket change. wink.gif

My threshold would be a flat 60" OLED for less than $4K with some expectation that it would work for a reasonable amount of time.
markrubin's Avatar markrubin
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I am starting to think there is/was a structural reason for these first sets to be curved: i.e. the curve helps with the structural rigidity and allowed them to introduce a relatively large panel to the market while they work the issue...it is obvious that a curved panel would never enjoy widespread market acceptance
htwaits's Avatar htwaits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I am starting to think there is/was a structural reason for these first sets to be curved: i.e. the curve helps with the structural rigidity and allowed them to introduce a relatively large panel to the market while they work the issue...it is obvious that a curved panel would never enjoy widespread market acceptance
That's an interesting idea that may have been part of the strategy, but it's never been mentioned by our manufacturing inside source.
rogo's Avatar rogo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post

The assumption most posting here seem to be making is that both LG and Samsung made their OLED sets curved because the technology allowed it and it was innovative, but nevertheless it was a mistake and they shouldn't have done it. But the question I have for all of you is, do you really think there was no market research done by either multi-billion dollar conglomerate when curved was chosen for OLED?

Yes, really.
Quote:
Really? So when Sony decided to invest in R&D and manufacturing to develop a curved LCD, do you also think that was a mistake?

Yes, a keee-jerk reaction to the OLEDs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I am starting to think there is/was a structural reason for these first sets to be curved: i.e. the curve helps with the structural rigidity and allowed them to introduce a relatively large panel to the market while they work the issue...it is obvious that a curved panel would never enjoy widespread market acceptance

There really isn't. The thinness creates a rigidity problem, which I noted more than a year ago, but you solve that with a rigid frame, like exists on all LCD TVs and just bolt the thing into a chassis. You can keep the display thinner with the curve, perhaps and get away with this, however, two things to note... (1) It doesn't appear Samsung has actually done this and even if they have the frame makes it pretty well impossible to even see it, denying all benefits of that (2) By curving it, the whole thing is no longer thin anyway, so no one is really being impressed by the display's thinness.

It was done for marketing.
jbug's Avatar jbug
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11-13-2013 | Posts: 3,630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Peterson View Post

The assumption most posting here seem to be making is that both LG and Samsung made their OLED sets curved because the technology allowed it and it was innovative, but nevertheless it was a mistake and they shouldn't have done it. But the question I have for all of you is, do you really think there was no market research done by either multi-billion dollar conglomerate when curved was chosen for OLED? Really? So when Sony decided to invest in R&D and manufacturing to develop a curved LCD, do you also think that was a mistake?

Well, the good news for all the curved-is-a-mistake members is that LG already announced a flat OLED to be out hopefully pretty soon. And the Panasonic and Sony 4K OLED prototypes are flat so maybe if either ever gets released it will also be flat. Jan 6th is press day at CES so we should know more at least by then.

Sounds like you've seen Panasonic and Sony 4k OLED sets. Please, if you (or anyone else) have link, I'm very interested in seeing or reading anything on these sets (including the flat 79" LG).
jhck66's Avatar jhck66
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11-15-2013 | Posts: 197
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I have a couple of questions for the very well infomed members. I see in the review by Chad there is ABL in this OLED; Why? I ask because it was my understanding that OLED was more power efficient than LED based TVs. If not power, is there other reason(s) for its existence?
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