LG 55EA9800 55" OLED Owner's thread - Page 226 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ktownhero View Post
I feel like our situations are about the same. The last thing I want to do is rush to buy something just because of a deal and not end up with exactly what I want. I'm going to see what happens over the upcoming months and if need-be I'll just spend that 3k on a killer 65" LED.
Yes, I did do it on a whim as I was able to PM BestBuy to a sponsors price of the Gen 2 so I was "in the moment". When I fired that beauty up I was super impressed by the PQ but for my "main" set I just couldn't get over the loss of size. Sad thing is my vision is bad enough that my 65" Sammy LED looks just as nice to a point I guess that's one place my bad eyes are a benefit to my wallet.

I absolutely would love to get a 65" OLED someday when they come down in price, if how quickly the 55" have dropped is any estimation that would be great. Best of luck with whatever you decide. IMO the 9800 is an absolute steal as a bedroom set. If I had more funds I would grab one in a second!
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:59 PM
 
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Over in the calibration forum, Tom Huffman just landed one of these, and in spite of its uniformity imperfections (to which we can all attest), this is his new reference standard, now replacing his Kuro 9th gen.
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Old 10-24-2014, 09:27 PM
 
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I'm going to quote those impressions here since they are pertinent and Huffman was almost convinced after reading a negative review that it couldn't possibly live up to his lofty expectations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
I have got to say that this review sapped some of my enthusiasm for OLED. It seems to fail in non-trivial areas of performance in ways that plasmas do not. In particular, I find the observed poor white field uniformity to be very troubling. Also, the black crush and attendant loss of shadow detail is of concern. Add to that the poor off-axis viewing, high price, and the inability to mount to a wall this is starting to look like a step backward from plasma in just about every area except contrast, an aspect of performance in which plasmas have gotten very good.
After getting one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
I finally got my hands on a LG OLED. It is last year's model, the 55EA9800. Here are some of my impressions.

First, regarding uniformity the bad news is that it is not very good. The good news is that this is visible only with test patterns. I couldn't see it at all with normal program material. I also found the off-axis viewing not great, but it was a little more noticeable with program material. At 23-degrees off-axis the colors looked flatter and less rich. See measurements below.



Regarding shadow detail, the only problem I found was that you have to be careful setting up the levels. The Sound and Vision recommended a setting of 50 (the default) for the brightness control, which crushed black. I found that 52 was the best setting, which yielded excellent shadow detail.

Regarding color, with the Gamut set to BT709 the color really needed no calibration. A LUT calibration on this display would be a waste of time. dE values throughout the color space are around 1.0, with a few outliers in the low 2's.

The 20pt grayscale also wasn't necessary. Using the 2-point yielded very good results. I tweaked 10% and 30% a little using the Lumagen. Gamma is consistently in the 2.2-2.3 range.

One setting that has not got a lot of attention--but which I found to be very important--was the OLED Light control. The default is 50, but at this level colors appeared exaggerated and blown out, though (interestingly) they measured fine. Set to 25, the image took on a very natural, silky smooth appearance.

The curved screen didn't hurt anything, but it didn't add anything either. It is subtle enough that you don't really notice it. The biggest drawback from this is that it precludes a wall mount installation.

The ISF Expert is the only Picture mode you should use. The THX mode has the same default values but you are locked out of a lot of the calibration controls.

I guess I agree with the consensus that the LG OLED offers the best image I have ever seen, at least with flat panels (I haven't seen the Samsung). I still think that the 4K Sony VPL-W1100 front projector provides the most impressive image overall. The LG replaces my personal reference display, the 9th generation Pioneer Kuro. The LG is sharper with superior black levels and better depth. In its uncalibrated state the LG's color is a HUGE step-up from the Pioneer, which requires an LUT calibration to look really good.

If LG can fix the white field uniformity problem, which I think is inexcusable, and improve the off-axis viewing this would be essentially a perfect display. An affordable 4K version would land us in TV heaven. I suspect it is only a matter of time. The 2K version is surprisingly affordable now.
Rough around the edges but as imperfect as this first gen LG OLED product was, it's another case where it knocked the Kuro reference off its highly esteemed pedestal, warts and all. Even with the thin veneer of undefeatable DNR, he found it sharper than the Kuro!

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Old 10-24-2014, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by vultur View Post
I'm going to quote those impressions here since they are pertinent and Huffman was almost convinced after reading a negative review that it couldn't possibly live up to his lofty expectations.

After getting one:

Rough around the edges but as imperfect as this first gen LG OLED product was, it's another case where it knocked the Kuro reference off its highly esteemed pedestal, warts and all.
The reasons for this are several.

  • First, I did not find any shadow detail problems when the levels were carefully adjusted.
  • Second, the poor white field uniformity bothers me, but it is not generally noticeable on program material, so it is more of a theoretical concern than a practical day-to-day issue.
  • Third, the price was relatively reasonable--just a little bit more than I paid for a 50" Kuro in 2010.
  • Fourth, inability to wall mount is a definite irritation, but has no effect on picture quality
  • Fifth, poor off-axis viewing is, in my opinion, the biggest drawback to OLED, but for single viewers this isn't an issue. I have a front projector to use when I want to have people over to watch a movie. With the demise of plasmas the only other alternative was LCD and it has poor off-axis viewing as well.
  • Lastly, OLED delivers an image that is seductive and pleasing in ways that are not obviously subject to measurement. Part of it is the essentially infinite contrast, but there is something else as well--a kind of silky smoothness mated to razor sharpness that just looks really, really good even in scenes in which high contrast offers no benefit.
I'd also like to point out that the color performance of Kuros were pretty awful, and the LG OLEDs are close to perfect without calibration when the correct presets are chosen.






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Old 10-25-2014, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
The reasons for this are several.
[*]Second, the poor white field uniformity bothers me, but it is not generally noticeable on program material, so it is more of a theoretical concern than a practical day-to-day issue.
How about the low IRE uniformity? Say 5-20%.
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Old 10-25-2014, 09:43 AM
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And, yes indeed, Tom's observations conform to what I've seen both in-store and at the shootout.

What's particularly interesting is that Tom too, does not see an issue with sharpness & detail. Using the phrase 'razor sharpness', confirms what I've always seen and said. I just don't get this endless talk of the 'horrific' impact of LG's DNR. Some of us must be blind.

This is precisely why I take some of these negative reviews with a grain of salt.
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Old 10-25-2014, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
And, yes indeed, Tom's observations conform to what I've seen both in-store and at the shootout.

What's particularly interesting is that Tom too, does not see an issue with sharpness & detail. Using the phrase 'razor sharpness', confirms what I've always seen and said. I just don't get this endless talk of the 'horrific' impact of LG's DNR. Some of us must be blind.

This is precisely why I take some of these negative reviews with a grain of salt.

Sure; the DNR thing might well be overblown, but in that phrasing of his I'd like to know if he's talking about static or dynamic content. NR involves the time domain AFAIK, not static image patterns.

If you believe you can win an argument by stating that scientists "often" get things wrong, all you're doing is selectively ignoring the overwhelming legion of things they have gotten right. Viewed as an aggregate, scientists very very rarely get things wrong.
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Old 10-25-2014, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
And, yes indeed, Tom's observations conform to what I've seen both in-store and at the shootout.

What's particularly interesting is that Tom too, does not see an issue with sharpness & detail. Using the phrase 'razor sharpness', confirms what I've always seen and said. I just don't get this endless talk of the 'horrific' impact of LG's DNR. Some of us must be blind.

This is precisely why I take some of these negative reviews with a grain of salt.
Tom reviewed the EA9800. The recent negative reviews are for the new EC9300. I think David said the older models forced a less aggressive temporal DNR.
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Old 10-25-2014, 10:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post
Fifth, poor off-axis viewing is, in my opinion, the biggest drawback to OLED, but for single viewers this isn't an issue. I have a front projector to use when I want to have people over to watch a movie. With the demise of plasmas the only other alternative was LCD and it has poor off-axis viewing as well.
I just wanted to add that while color accuracy may suffer at sharper angles, this doesn't correspond with an associated drop in contrast, which is why some may find the viewing angles preferable to LCD.
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Old 10-25-2014, 11:04 AM
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Tom reviewed the EA9800. The recent negative reviews are for the new EC9300. I think David said the older models forced a less aggressive temporal DNR.
Did he? I don't remember David saying anything about the EA9800. I sure would like to hear what he thinks about it.
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Old 10-25-2014, 12:55 PM
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Does anyone know if the AN-MR500 is compatible?
I online chatted with LG support, and they said the AN-MR500 was compatible with the 9800, so I ordered one.

LG support was wrong. When pairing the TV gives a message saying the remote is not compatible. Some of the functions actually work, but everything you hit Selected, it tries to re-pair.

So, I'll be returning the remote or selling it on ebay.

PS: I did just get a BP540 BluRay player. I'll try the SimuLink thing to see if the 9800 remote works with it.
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Old 10-25-2014, 02:05 PM
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Sure; the DNR thing might well be overblown, but in that phrasing of his I'd like to know if he's talking about static or dynamic content. NR involves the time domain AFAIK, not static image patterns.
I'd be shocked if it wasn't both static & dynamic content he's talking about both since he's been watching typical content in arriving at his conclusion, not just static test patterns. If I had spent time with the display like Tom did, I doubt I'd make my assessment just watching talking heads.

But we can wait for Tom to chime in if I'm wrong.
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Old 10-25-2014, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post
Tom reviewed the EA9800. The recent negative reviews are for the new EC9300. I think David said the older models forced a less aggressive temporal DNR.
I'm not sure that's the case, but either way, even the older model DID/DOES have DNR and Tom still saw no evidence of it.

Again, not one owner has complained about it with either the 9300 or 9800. It appears like with so many things on AVS, it's non-owners that have the biggest complaints. Interesting.
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Old 10-25-2014, 06:07 PM
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How about the low IRE uniformity? Say 5-20%.
It's about the same.

BTW, after additional use I am bothered more by the poor white field uniformity. This is not, as I reported, very visible with regular program material. However, it is quite visible when the program material is black and white. I am just now watching the excellent Ken Burns PBS documentary on the Roosevelt's (TR, FDR, and ER), and I find that the discoloration on the sides of the image--especially the right side--is quite distracting. Much of the program material is composed of black and white photos.
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Old 10-25-2014, 06:08 PM
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It appears like with so many things on AVS, it's non-owners that have the biggest complaints. Interesting.
I believe you're putting the cart before the horse, or at least the emphasis in the wrong place. It's the folks that are the most critical (and vocally so) of any last little thing that hold off on a purchase and remain non-owners of new devices. That's normal for folks looking for uber-perfection; they don't find it. There's nothing untoward here at all.

If you believe you can win an argument by stating that scientists "often" get things wrong, all you're doing is selectively ignoring the overwhelming legion of things they have gotten right. Viewed as an aggregate, scientists very very rarely get things wrong.
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Old 10-25-2014, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I'd be shocked if it wasn't both static & dynamic content he's talking about both since he's been watching typical content in arriving at his conclusion, not just static test patterns. If I had spent time with the display like Tom did, I doubt I'd make my assessment just watching talking heads.

But we can wait for Tom to chime in if I'm wrong.
I haven't noticed anything in particular in this regard. Perhaps if someone can suggest a specific test, I can look for it.
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Old 10-25-2014, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
I believe you're putting the cart before the horse, or at least the emphasis in the wrong place. It's the folks that are the most critical (and vocally so) of any last little thing that hold off on a purchase and remain non-owners of new devices. That's normal for folks looking for uber-perfection; they don't find it. There's nothing untoward here at all.
I generally agree. But there are also people that bend over backwards to find 'excuses' not to buy. There are many underlying reasons for that, such as budgetary issues to name one.

For those that are truly looking for 'perfection', good luck with that.
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Old 10-25-2014, 08:00 PM
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My 9800 has some issues, which are easy to find if I use the right material. (The white field uniformity is probably like most out there.) Still, it's better than any display I've ever owned, or seen. Every time I watch it, I know I made the right decision. I've spent a lot more for displays (flat panel and projectors), but not a one of them has pleased me more than this OLED. For me, the only downside is that it's the only display in my house that I want to watch anymore.
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Old 10-25-2014, 08:05 PM
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My 9800 has some issues, which are easy to find if I use the right material. (The white field uniformity is probably like most out there.) Still, it's better than any display I've ever owned, or seen. Every time I watch it, I know I made the right decision. I've spent a lot more for displays (flat panel and projectors), but not a one of them has pleased me more than this OLED. For me, the only downside is that it's the only display in my house that I want to watch anymore.
I feel your pain!
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Old 10-26-2014, 08:01 AM
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Tried yesterday non-PC mode (PC was switched from RGB to YCbCr and TV's HDMI input was unlabeled). Just to enjoy that DNR thing. 720 picture on 55 screen (OLED!), wow... Even worse, some parts of image look black crashed (denoised), while the others look washed out.
Somewhat DNR helps to hide a static ghosts from back lightening heterogeneity though, but not copmplitely and dinamic and transparensy loss is huge. I'll better go back to PC mode. Perhaps, it will be possible to disable DNR in service mode.

Burned by the Audio Inquisition
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Old 10-26-2014, 08:56 AM
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I generally agree. But there are also people that bend over backwards to find 'excuses' not to buy. There are many underlying reasons for that, such as budgetary issues to name one.
Well there are two things regarding price:
  • Can you afford it
  • and If you can afford it, are you willing to pay for it
Speaking for me, I can afford the various models out there, but I am just not an early adopter. There are some prices I won't pay for a TV regardless of how well off I am doing.

Quick example I used in the past:

Something like 20 years ago I went on trip down to Virginia and during that trip I visited a cave system there. I was starving and there was no food anywhere to be found except for a shack that was selling things like snickers bars for $3.95. Of course I can easily afford $4 for a 75 cent candy bar. I will not pay $4 for a 75 cent candy bar based entirely on the principal of it.

If you believe you can win an argument by stating that scientists "often" get things wrong, all you're doing is selectively ignoring the overwhelming legion of things they have gotten right. Viewed as an aggregate, scientists very very rarely get things wrong.
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Old 10-26-2014, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Well there are two things regarding price:
  • Can you afford it
  • and If you can afford it, are you willing to pay for it
Speaking for me, I can afford the various models out there, but I am just not an early adopter. There are some prices I won't pay for a TV regardless of how well off I am doing.

Quick example I used in the past:

Something like 20 years ago I went on trip down to Virginia and during that trip I visited a cave system there. I was starving and there was no food anywhere to be found except for a shack that was selling things like snickers bars for $3.95. Of course I can easily afford $4 for a 75 cent candy bar. I will not pay $4 for a 75 cent candy bar based entirely on the principal of it.
So what's your price point for the 9800(assuming you would be willing to be an early adopter)
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Old 10-26-2014, 01:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post
My 9800 has some issues, which are easy to find if I use the right material. (The white field uniformity is probably like most out there.) Still, it's better than any display I've ever owned, or seen. Every time I watch it, I know I made the right decision. I've spent a lot more for displays (flat panel and projectors), but not a one of them has pleased me more than this OLED. For me, the only downside is that it's the only display in my house that I want to watch anymore.
You made the right decision with the 9800.
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Old 10-26-2014, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Well there are two things regarding price:
  • Can you afford it
  • and If you can afford it, are you willing to pay for it
Speaking for me, I can afford the various models out there, but I am just not an early adopter. There are some prices I won't pay for a TV regardless of how well off I am doing.

Quick example I used in the past:

Something like 20 years ago I went on trip down to Virginia and during that trip I visited a cave system there. I was starving and there was no food anywhere to be found except for a shack that was selling things like snickers bars for $3.95. Of course I can easily afford $4 for a 75 cent candy bar. I will not pay $4 for a 75 cent candy bar based entirely on the principal of it.
I wouldn't have either...but I would have paid $4 for a Dove dark chocolate bar. The hell with principles!
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Old 10-26-2014, 02:57 PM
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Finally, I had the chance to calibrate my 55EA9800 yesterday, and it just made an amazing picture more amazing.

I would not qualify myself as en expert, so the calibration process took me a while (almost 3 hours). I have an i1DisplayPro, CalMan 5 and since I was using the AVS disk for the patterns (don't have a pattern generator) with a Panasonic Blu-ray player (no UIRT control), it was painful because of the manual clicking that needed to be made. This wasn't just because I didn't have the high-tech equipment but because of 2 issues that are unique to the LG:
1. The 20-point, CMS controls and the overall advanced picture settings are really hard getting to from the main menu
2. I did experience the "display fatigue" that Chad and others mentioned in that if a pattern (I was using windows patterns) stays on screen for a long time (probably 20-30 secs), the screen dims and all the measurements are basically garbage. Only workaround for this was to back-up to the previous menu and back-in a 2nd time.

I used the isf expert 1 option and found out that the settings below were the best before doing the 20-pt and CMS calibrations:
OLED: 50
Contrast: 97
Brightness: 52
H/V Sharpness: 30/20
Color/Tint: 0/0
Color Gamut: BT709
Gamma: 2.4
All other settings off.

While I went through the 20-pt gray scale calibration with the pains mentioned above, most of the adjustments were minor (+/-5) at the low end but more pronounced for IRE 70 and above (more like in the 15s/20s).

I didn't do much with the CMS for 2 reasons:
1. While the RGBs for each color where off, they were so very slightly with dE's < 2. I did fiddle with them to achieve dE's < 1 (which I know my eyes could not see but just trying to be perfectionist)
2. Didn't really know how to play with the controls the LG had. Most of what I calibrated before had RGB controls for the CMS settings, the LG had L/H/S instead (Luminance, Tint and Saturation). Given what Calman showed, I just played with the Luminance for the primaries (RGB) and the Tint for the secondaries (CMY). Didn't touch the saturation setting at all (changing Saturation was not having any effect on what CalMan was showing until around the 40s -out of 50).

At the end, it was worth it. I re-watched several movies including Alien - a movie full of dark scenes that the LG handled beautifully. Tested also some regular DVD movies, and sitting from 10-ft away, could not tell the difference from a bluray!! (That will not make me start buying DVD movies instead, but it is comfort to think now the the LG is the best place for watching what I have now)
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Old 10-26-2014, 05:25 PM
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Hi. I have a Elite pro101, an Elite a/v, and Directv Tivo. But I think the problem is with my TV or Monitor I should say. lol

I turn everything on and I get HDCP error on the a/v receiver the tv picture goes off and the power light blinks blue.

I tried switching HDMI same result. Tried using yellow rca cable connecting to over air converter box same result. even when I try and get into the tv menu, the same thing happens.

Anyone know what that means or am I posting in the wrong thread?

Until I get it fixed I am stuck watching my 1980 Curtis Mathis console with the over air converter box

Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-26-2014, 08:11 PM
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Black Level Issues

I found another problem with the 55EA9800 that is at least as serious as the poor white field uniformity.

The default brightness setting of 50 crushes black quite a bit. The technically correct setting is 58 (the below-black stripes are invisible and the just-above-black stripes are visible).

Although 58 is the ideal setting, this raises the black level substantially to about 0.03 nits. Assuming 120 nits at 100% video that's only a contrast ratio of 4000:1. You can get by with a brightness setting of 56. At that level an 18 digital stripe is still clearly visible. This gives a black level reading of 0.012 or 10,000:1.

It seems that infinite contrast can be achieved only by clipping black.

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Old 10-27-2014, 04:40 PM
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Tom, rather than using brightness to account for the crush, have you tried increasing the OLED light and determining if the detail is still missing?
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Old 10-27-2014, 05:27 PM
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Hi gang, been lurking a while but finally registered to say thanks for the info. Bought this TV a month ago and have been happy w/ it sense. Couple of requests/questions, could some of you post the stand you're putting this on? I'm trying to decide what I want and would love some inspiration. Also, I've skimmed this whole thread but are there certain posts that discuss DNLA? I can't get this puppy to play .srt subtitles. Anywho, thanks for pointing me in the right direction...
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Old 10-27-2014, 05:51 PM
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A picked up a stand from Best Buy, then built a platform to bring it up so my eyes are almost dead center of the screen vertically from the seated position. If you're too high or too low, you'll see ghosting in 3D movies. The 3D is the best of any 3D display I've ever owned. If you're not interested in 3D, the height of the stand isn't that important. Lots of stands will work.
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