LG 55EA9800 55" OLED Owner's thread - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 12:17 AM
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Well I've been saying nothing but great things about this tv nonstop until today, and I wasn't attacking anyone and I'm still not, unless you count warning people to be careful and taking offense to you accusing me of "coddling" my TV set as such. So the warning is out there, it's a pretty reasonable one. Those who care about protecting their investment can be careful with it and those who don't, don't need to. Plain and simple. People read the owner's forums to learn about the technology good and bad as there aren't many owners and I think that your advice to disregard my advice right after I posted it, backed with empirical evidence, was disrespectful.

I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else, or made it seem like I was directing my anger towards any other posters. I'm not in the interest of making enemies on the boards so let's just put the argument to rest. We've had plenty of good discussions with helpful advice thrown around and can continue to do so. I'll let you know if LG fixes my tv or not and if they do they're still okay in my book.

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #992 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 12:27 AM
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You got it!!!
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post #993 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 12:50 AM
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I will also be fed up and pissed off in my new unit costing 5000 usd gets problems in short period. guess this is the cost of new tech in early stages. I just wonder for those who paid full premium of 10,000 how they would feel. guess there is a few years wait to get perfect unit with right price. oh well ganna stick with pioneer for now.
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post #994 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 01:25 AM
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I appreciate your concerns, theplague13, but before you go down the whole 'the sky is falling' route you might want to wait until the issue is verified.

Have you tried a source other than a Playstation console to create a black screen? Using my CRT set I'm able to adjust the boundaries of the screen, and the black borders created by the TV are very marginally more grey than the blacks in the signal being sent from the PS3.

I believe that you previously said it was an image of a forest that was left on your display when you fell asleep. It would therefore seem strange, if there is a lasting effect, that it is only visible as a cleanly defined margin and with nothing in the centre if the screen where the greatest contrasts were presumably being displayed.

I'm keen to see if this is perhaps an underlying quirk which is not necessarily a fault of the OLED display which has only been discovered because you've gone looking for problems after your scare.

Although you'll have a right to be angry if it is proved that there is a problem, you also have a responsibility as an early adopter of a nascent technology not to damage its prospects with unfair and vocal claims.

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post #995 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 01:34 AM
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I think it's going to take a long time for them to figure out how to reduce the burn in problems inherent with oled, if ever. There have been loads of oled prototypes for years, and there's a reason they haven't surfaced In the consumer market until now. Unfortunately, the hard truth which you can find out fairly easily online is that anything at all retained on an oled screen is completely permanent, unlike plasma where there are sometimes certain avenues one can take to reduce the damage. For the life of me I just can't understand why there is no real screensaver to speak of on this model. It seems like a maddeningly easy failsafe for them to have implemented.

If I have to go back to LCD from here it's going to be extremely difficult after seeing what this set is capable of, however, so I really don't want to. I really hope LG will do the right thing by me, as it should by all of it's early adopters, and repair my set without much hassle. Unfortunately burn in is not officially covered under warranty as per the manual, so I've got no idea what the tech is going to do but hopefully if i state my case hell feel bad for me and do it anyway. If I get out of this with a good set I'll not be taking it for granted again, it needs to be treated with care at all times in order to remain pristine. If something like this happens a year or so from now I'll not lose my mind, but it's too soon. Would be great if pc richard just got their darn shipment in as they'd just bring me a new one no questions asked, but lg doesn't seem to think it's possible.

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #996 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 01:43 AM
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Desk-

What? I have visible image burn on the sides of my screen. It is on all images on all sources. I was not even on the ps3 when I noticed it, and it is not only on black or gray, as I said. That was just the easiest way to get it to show in pictures from my phone to post on the forum.

I would appreciate it if you would not insult me by acting as though I am creating an issue which is not there, or that I could overlook something so simple as trying a different input source. If you don't believe me then I cannot convince you that it has happened, but If I am not allowed to vocalize anything about the set unless it is positive then what is the point of discussion? The forest background was set to a slightly smaller aspect ratio and that's what has burned. I do not know why the forest itself did not, but my vision is not defective; my tv is. I want the technology to succeed more than anyone, but telling me I may be imagining the issue, or that raising awareness of it is going to damage its viability in the consumer market and I am therefore required to keep my mouth shut is unfair. I paid for my tv and can speak about its positives and negatives as i wish.

Yes, this is a new technology...In this size. That doesn't change my disgust at its fragility, which is apparently much greater than any OLED phone, as I have owned many. LG is certainly capable of creating operable OLED pixels as well, but that is a lesser issue. My observation is objective unless I happened to receive a one off panel which is more susceptible than others, and I certainly do hope that's the case. But pretending as though I am imagining the issue because you are skeptical of me or think that I am incapable of taking the most rudimentary problem solving measures such as changing inputs is a downright insult. I can assure you that I inspected the tv's uniformity upon arrival much more than I have today.

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #997 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 02:01 AM
 
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Desk is still living with CRT so I am not sure if he can bear it if this tech doesn't succeed (I'm gonna' be pissed also if the ZT60 is the pinnacle of PQ we'll be able to achieve at 65" and above). tongue.gif Frankly, I think it's more than past time to jump off the fence...the plasma train has nearly left the station, LCD is in vast abundance (including some promising FALDs this year), and OLED has just arrived but with questionable longevity. Okay, maybe that's a sound argument for waiting but if you're itching to enjoy the best here and now after what must be near a decade-long wait, this is it.
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post #998 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 02:11 AM
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And I agree with you vinnie; if I get a new or repaired set I will still be upset that Such a small misstep could mean the end of it, and that LG has not seen fit to utilize a capable screensaver, but I will still not regret my purchase! I cannot stress enough how much i love the pq on this tv. I am not trying to damage anything in the oled stratosphere, and I have no hidden agenda other than to receive a quality set and hopefully a less fragile one in the future, if my very next panel doesn't prove to be more resilient! Who knows?

But the bottom line remains that clearly the technology is still niche for a very good reason, and if every panel is as susceptible to burn in as I've seen on mine, then it is not a product I would recommend at this stage of the game to anyone but the most staunch videophiles because frankly, this should not have happened to me regardless. And I do not appreciate others trying to find backdoors in my logic in order to feel better about it or somehow insinuate that I am simply hallucinating, or irresponsible for posting my very rational opinions.
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post #999 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 02:18 AM
 
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Awaiting with baited breath to hear what LG does for you, and one can't help but be concerned about aging on this set. It's a valid concern because it's doubtful if any owner has yet accumulated 1000 hours on this set much less 100. The only other burn-in report is from this same model as a display model last year, another heavy use scenario where there was in all likelihood significant abuse (far worse than that generated by your mishap).
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post #1000 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 02:30 AM
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theplague13 - I'm not trying to insult you, merely asking for cool heads to prevail.

Your postings on this board in the space of just one or two weeks have been a rollercoaster of dramatic emotions, ranging from the pits of despair to unbounded elation when that fault was then easily rectified, and now this.

I'm not saying there is no problem, and clearly said that if there was you would have every right to be upset.

However, you'll forgive me if I'm keen to coolly explore explanations and possible solutions to this latest drama, and am concerned about the negative effect that extremely vocal condemnations can have on a technology which is in its infancy (mindful of the lasting detrimental effect it had on plasma).

And you're right, Vinnie - I am very keen to see OLED succeed, and make no secret of that fact. I think it is the best viable display technology we've seen, and am looking forward to owning an OLED set.

Desk
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post #1001 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 02:36 AM
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can u plz any time later take a screen shot of mgsv in oled? ganna be fantastic and breath taking
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post #1002 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 02:44 AM
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You're right, my emotions have been all over the place with this purchase and it shows on the forum. I work hard for my money, haven't upgraded in a very long time, and treated myself to this by paying in full; I am very pragmatic and do not do that often, but am enamored with the industry and nobody in my life quite understands why I would want such a tv over something of the same size for $500 at Walmart. I make okay money but it isn't anything special, and I live very humbly in a fairly small but clean apartment. But I researched each and every option to the ends of the earth before making my decisions, and despite it all it has been a nightmarishly complicated affair; between both the hx950 and this. I hope you can appreciate how all this could affect me without thinking I'm too much of a nutcase. ;-)

Perhaps my first issue in some way relates to this? Maybe there was something different about my panel all along? I don't know. I know that I am simply fed up with everything I've been through, and am largely wishing I just stayed with my xbr5 until oled 4k, price drops or maturation of the format. I simply should not have had this many problems buying a tv. It is immensely frustrating. I really thought I'd be staying on the elation train for a while there and then this happened. It's just...exhausting.

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #1003 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 02:50 AM
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Yes, Mgs in oled is as breathtaking as it gets but you will not be able to see that from my phone....I'll try but it won't really work. It's just going to look like a picture of metal gear, not a picture of metal gear on oled

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #1004 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 02:58 AM
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I'll run the pixel flipper all through work tomorrow just for sh***s and giggles and see what happens.

Also vinnie, thank you for your calm, collected and helpful responses to me as a fellow owner through my ordeals. They are much appreciated. I read that other review with the screenshot of the burn in on that demo set and mine is admittedly not nearly as bad. So although those conditions were much more stressful on that set, I can see how that could have accumulated over time if it took around 6 hours for what is essentially the advent of it on mine.
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post #1005 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 04:22 AM
 
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No problem, your trials are making me more anxious. I went pixel-peeping early this morning only to find, like you, another dead subpixel (mine are all apparent on white and gray screens...interesting that yours are all on blue; thinking out loud I wonder if this is caused by vapor deposition imperfections and affects the entire batch/substrate from which the panels were cut?). Like you (?), that makes 3 now. Hopefully, this stabilizes. And if my eyes aren't deceiving me, I'm also seeing a faint horizontal line across the bottom of the screen (denoting the edge of 2.35:1 content) when viewing the grayscale slides (10% IRE brings it out the most much it does for the other aforementioned uniformity defects). I don't recall seeing this before the recent spat of 2.35:1 movies (4 or 5, giving me more than the 6 hours that you accumulated with the static screen overnight). Curiously, the line is slightly more faint across the upper edge where 2.35:1 content would end. I'm running the pixel flipper like you, but I am reticent to do this for long as I am concerned about panel lifetime now (TGM, you are a sage).
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post #1006 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santori_time View Post

I am not sure if I understand your situation exactly, but as far as the IR is concerned (the number of dead pixels is another story and frankly ridiculous for a TV this expensive) I think it might be temporary.

 

There is no evidence anywhere that a temporary kind of IR even exists for OLED.  None.  In the case of plasma there are a few theories on what IR is and I believe the most cogent of which centers around a transient or buildup of electrical charge within the cell itself.  This is why plasma's have a distinction between IR and BI.

 

The counter to this theory (sometimes I hear this even with plasma) seems to be that it is directly related to non-linear wear curves.  I don't buy that for a second with plasma, but with OLED I am a little more cautious: it is possible that the rest of the TV does in fact "have to catch up", but I believe that Plague is absolutely correct in not wanting to put up with this.  I wouldn't either---and it'd go back ASAP even if there were no dying pixels showing up.

 

Add dying pixels to the mix and I'd be out of control furious.


Send this to all your friends! When will this stupidity end? So hysterical: Vertical Video Syndrome --- a PSA.
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post #1007 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 
Am I the only owner here annoyed by the trolls in this thread?
There are no trolls in this thread. In fact the only posts that were removed are yours because you tend to be rude..
Quote:
Originally Posted by conan48 
You guys know there is a general forum for your BS right?
Another one of your rude posts.

There are no ''members only'' Owner threads. Everybody can post wherever they want on AVS. If you can not handle that you should leave..
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post #1008 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

You make it seem like I have no reason to be pissed right now, and that's just crazy.

 

You have every reason to be pissed off.

 

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Originally Posted by Desk. View Post

Although you'll have a right to be angry if it is proved that there is a problem, you also have a responsibility as an early adopter of a nascent technology not to damage its prospects with unfair and vocal claims.

Desk

 

I'm sorry Desk, but that is just nonsense.  It is extremely valuable to hear owner's feedback at all stages of their ownership.  Yes, that means early on, that means disappointments, that means all the nitty-gritty in between.  Everyone reading his reviews understands full well that this is a brand new technology...he's not doing a thing other than voicing a disappointment that 99% of us would be feeling in his place.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

No problem, your trials are making me more anxious. I went pixel-peeping early this morning only to find, like you, another dead subpixel (mine are all apparent on white and gray screens...interesting that yours are all on blue; thinking out loud I wonder if this is caused by vapor deposition imperfections and affects the entire batch/substrate from which the panels were cut?). Like you (?), that makes 3 now. Hopefully, this stabilizes. And if my eyes aren't deceiving me, I'm also seeing a faint horizontal line across the bottom of the screen (denoting the edge of 2.35:1 content) when viewing the grayscale slides (10% IRE brings it out the most much it does for the other aforementioned uniformity defects). I don't recall seeing this before the recent spat of 2.35:1 movies (4 or 5, giving me more than the 6 hours that you accumulated with the static screen overnight). Curiously, the line is slightly more faint across the upper edge where 2.35:1 content would end. I'm running the pixel flipper like you, but I am reticent to do this for long as I am concerned about panel lifetime now (TGM, you are a sage).

 

Oh man I sure hope your TV is ok.  Keep the super valuable feedback coming.

 

By the way, what earned me sage-dom?  :)  LOL...


Send this to all your friends! When will this stupidity end? So hysterical: Vertical Video Syndrome --- a PSA.
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post #1009 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I'm sorry Desk, but that is just nonsense.  It is extremely valuable to hear owner's feedback at all stages of their ownership.  Yes, that means early on, that means disappointments, that means all the nitty-gritty in between.  Everyone reading his reviews understands full well that this is a brand new technology...he's not doing a thing other than voicing a disappointment that 99% of us would be feeling in his place.

I'm afraid I don't see it your way, tgm1024.

Early adopters are crucial in establishing a new technology. I've been one myself, and it comes with a responsibility. It's absolutely fine to highlight problems or issues with the new technology you've adopted, but you should bear in mind that what you say on the Internet can be disproportionately influential, could affect the perspective of scores of people considering a move towards it themselves and could therefore do untold damage to the technology's prospects.

In the case of theplague13, he absolutely castigated his new set on these forums, only for his initial problem to be very easily resolved with a simple system reset - at which point he was positively euphoric. And now, with all of this within the space of perhaps 7 to 14 days, he's slating it again, expressing his 'disgust' at its 'fragility'.

I'm not saying he's not justified - he might well be, and I can well understand his emotions in this. But this is a problem that's been apparent for less than 24 hours, has not even been seen by technicians as yet, and to his credit theplague13 is now set to explore what effect running the remedial service pixel flipper may have on the set.

What I'm not keen to see is anyone promote a rush to judgement about a technology based on a problem which is still being investigated.

Desk
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post #1010 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 08:54 AM
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Whether a technician has seen my tv or not has no bearing on whether or not what I'm experiencing has indeed happened. The only thing it impacts is whether or not you believe me. I was able to recreate the aspect ratio of the tv on that night by turning on 3d mode, raising depth to 20, then turning off the ps3 and allowing the receiver's forest image to be displayed. It matches the exact location of the bars.

And my initial problem with the set was NOT remedied with a quick fix. It was painfully tedious to come to that fix and I was lucky enough to get a knowledgeable rep on the phone who had an idea for me. The closest one can come to understanding what happened is that the tv's algorithm for evaluating the picture and applying ABL had malfunctioned, and only through a service level reset could it be remedied. I had no Eco settings, power saving, or light sensors on. I spent hours upon hours pouring over every option on the consumer side, wondering if I was crazy and as it turned out I wasn't. If you can link me to one other example of such a thing happening to anyone in the history of televisions, and tell me that you would've known what to do had it been you, I will send one hundred dollars to your paypal account right now.

Then you have the pixel issue which is also unforgivable. Let's not forget that OLED pixels themselves are NOT new technology, and there should be no reason for 1) every or close to every set to come with defectives, and 2) perfectly functional ones to die within their infancy, as has also been reported by Vinnie.

It's been one problem after the other with this set, sandwiched by a three or four day window where I was able to truly enjoy it. I explained to you a few posts up very rationally and on a personal level why it has impacted my emotional responses so dramatically, though I truly wish it hadn't because it makes me feel shallow and materialistic, though I am not those things. I am trying to keep a clear head now and simply live with whatever LG is willing to do for me.

In terms of being an early adopter the only responsibility I have here is to pay LG money, and I have. After all, I'm the early adopter who bought into their technology on faith they could deliver, so now THEY have a responsibility to deliver a product which at the very least is not defective. As I said multiple times I am not expecting perfection forever, only for them to simply take the time to try and make me happy, which is their obligation and I will still overlook everything I've been through if they fulfill it.

The tv is amazing, but I am certainly disgusted, and not without merit. As for what I am seeing thusfar, and it seems as though Vinnie MAY also be seeing (though I do not want to speak for him), is that you have to be very mindful of how you space out the content you consume on this television; and all available research on oled points to evidence that any screen alterations are permanent. In my opinion, that is simply a far too fragile product.

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #1011 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 09:19 AM
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Well all this ... makes me wonder gen 1 oled ...

I could hang on to gen 2 really
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post #1012 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 10:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

By the way, what earned me sage-dom?  smile.gif  LOL...
You expressing empathy for we new owners who took the plunge (I would be shooting myself in the foot right now if I grabbed it at $6k) along with what excitement might be waiting.

So yea, 7 hours of running the pixel flipper and the 2.35:1 lines are no less visible on 10% IRE. I will watch some full-screen content later tonight to see how visible this is, but it's very unnerving to see this evidence of uneven wear happening so soon (with my Kuro, I didn't notice such aging discrepancy until ~2000 hours of use). LG apparently should've included this as a viewing precaution in their manual: If you don't want uneven wear, watch everything full-screen. eek.gif

It's hard for me to give it too much grief, though. My ZT60 seems to have some very, very stubborn IR that I can very occasionally see on content up close.
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post #1013 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 11:12 AM
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Lol pick a problem a lot of sets have them it's funny you bring up the stubborn IR because I have that same problem on a VT50 the IR is a constant issue and it happens very easily on my VT set my old Kuro still buzzes loud enough to wake me up in a deep sleep my old sharp elite had more problems then I could count and to boot didn't even have reference colors at it's price point if you go back and look at the reviews I believe from digital trend on the LG OLED they talk about the dead pixels being an issue but only one you could see up close from normal viewing distance they say you could not see it and with me saying all this sets whether new or old can come with their fair share of hiccups and if you grab first gen sets like I do we have to accept that the bugs that come along with the tech we are going to see them first it's kind of what we have to expect by making the first leap out there but these OLED's are great sets and will continue to get better but all the early adopters that buy into the technology help keep it alive so that they can keep making advancements and the problems we see can be brought to light so they can be worked on for later generations and the owners that purchase these sets later down the road hopefully will not have to go through what we did but as early adopters we have to accept that this is something new and the chances of something happening to the set are a little higher if anyone is very concerned with the issues that may come along with oled tech I advise you just to wait a little while longer so some things can get ironed out
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post #1014 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 11:39 AM
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I wonder how channel logos will fair on this set. I'm thinking baseball season just started and they have that fox sport logo on constantly. 162 games a year and about 3 hours per game. This has gotta be one of the most concerning (thinking of my vt60 as well).
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post #1015 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe there are some duds flouting around, I have had no issues with our 55EA9800 and nothing but love coming from the new owner as well..........Will I buy a 77", ah, hell ya !
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post #1016 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 11:53 AM
 
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I gave up on pixel flipping. It seems there's no recourse with the manufacturer when it comes to uneven wear, so that is quite a detriment to buying in at any price.
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post #1017 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 11:55 AM
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Does anybody remember a review where they performed a 24 hour torture test to check for burn-in?

I checked some of the reviews but havent been able to find it, but I am nearly positive that somebody did this for either the LG or Samsung OLED.
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post #1018 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 11:56 AM
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Glad to hear it Cleveland! Sorry to hear it vinnie frown.gif

And again, all I'm asking is for LG to try and make it right by me, as I've had the set for less than one week and have been through far too much with it in that timeframe. It should not be tarnished already bottom line and if it is they should repair or replace it and cover burn in under warranty, and though it says otherwise in the manual it seems they very well may. I think that is beyond a completely reasonable request coming from someone who adopted their technology at this price point. Sure, you can "pick a problem" with most tv's, but these are far worse.

Also you can see dead pixels the exact same as you can on any other 1080p set...they're the same size.

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #1019 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcoupe2003 View Post

Yes like I said enjoy it! I totally understand it is a large purchase I myself know because I have the Samsung OLED which cost me 8K and I am ordering the LG Gallery OLED this week.

Bigcoupe2003,

Do you plan on starting an owners thread for the gallery OLED? That one really interests me because it is wall mountable.
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post #1020 of 7035 Old 04-02-2014, 12:21 PM
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Theplague13,

Is your issue burn-in or uneven wear like vinnie? It seems like the latter since there was no image in the part that was "burned in".
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