LG 55EA9800 55" OLED Owner's thread - Page 43 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1261 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 11:54 AM
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Well a few Oled pictures with content would be nice... tongue.gif
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post #1262 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 12:02 PM
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Clearly that one single point couldn't be driven home by thor's hammer, but luckily there are plenty of pc boards for him. And on we move

Vak, again unfortunately a picture of oled on a phone sent to a monitor will not look to your eyes as it does on the oled, as we've noted. But if you have anything in particular you'd like me to try I can . It's just, again, going to loom like a picture of what it is not a picture of what it is on oled

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post #1263 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 12:05 PM
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we were all newbies here on AVS at one time or another:

if you feel a new member has their facts wrong, please do chime in and offer to help...but please don't insult any AVS member
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post #1264 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 12:09 PM
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post #1265 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 12:11 PM
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.

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post #1266 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 12:15 PM
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What are you guys arguing about?

You send a 1080p signal to a 4K display/monitor then the 4K display/monitor will UPSCALE to it's native RES. There is no arguing about this fact.

You send a 4k signal to a 4k display/monitor then the 4k display/monitor will NOT UPSCALE. You can argue that even sending a 4k signal to a 4K TV there is always some sort of processing going on that is almost entirely impossible to completely turn off.

I can say that I have Benq Monitors that DO NOT UPSCALE, but they only use the pixels required and don't Stretch the image to fill the screen (upscale) EX, if I send a 640 x 480 res to my monitor it can show it as a little window in the center of the screen.
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post #1267 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

Clearly that one single point couldn't be driven home by thor's hammer, but luckily there are plenty of pc boards for him. And on we move

Vak, again unfortunately a picture of oled on a phone sent to a monitor will not look to your eyes as it does on the oled, as we've noted. But if you have anything in particular you'd like me to try I can . It's just, again, going to loom like a picture of what it is not a picture of what it is on oled

A game perhaps? to se how that would look.
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post #1268 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 12:32 PM
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yes, but there are no tv's which would render smaller res content as a small window instead of upscale. See, everyone misinterpereted everyone. I THOUGHTthe poster was saying his monitor is a 4k tv but it does not upscale because his pc doesn't tell it to. I THINK tgm thought he was saying that even if an image is enlarged to fit his 4k monitor, it doesn't mean there's upscaling happening. And I BELIEVE the poster was saying (on a tv forum I've got no clue why) that his pc renders everything at 4k and that if it doesn't then it indeed will be a smaller window, but it always does because he has a great pc. Those are my speculations anyway but it's all just silly and should be put to rest before this whole thread gets compromised.
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post #1269 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 12:48 PM
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A game perhaps? to se how that would look.

Lol.....But that's exactly it dude, you won't see how it looks . Not by a lingshot. My phone will make artifacts and halos, then the image will be compressed while downloading/uploading, then you'll view it on a completely different display with completely different settings. It won't be the slightest bit indicitive of what you'd be seeing if you were here. If you really want me to ilk try later on but the as for. why it's pointless the list goes on.

Lol. It's the equivalent of saying "take a picture of a black screen on your oled so I can see how good your blacks look on my edge lit monitor".

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post #1270 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

Lol.....But that's exactly it dude, you won't see how it looks . Not by a lingshot. My phone will make artifacts and halos, then the image will be compressed while downloading/uploading, then you'll view it on a completely different display with completely different settings. It won't be the slightest bit indicitive of what you'd be seeing if you were here. If you really want me to ilk try later on but the as for. why it's pointless the list goes on.

Lol. It's the equivalent of saying "take a picture of a black screen on your oled so I can see how good your blacks look on my edge lit monitor".

Well Why not just try cool.gif
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post #1271 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 01:14 PM
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.....as long as you see my point.

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post #1272 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 01:15 PM
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.....as long as you see my point.

I do smile.gif
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post #1273 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 02:28 PM
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This is the message I was originally hoping to get to.  The question I have is this: could it be a backplane issue and still be resolved with color slides?

I would just have assumed that static images would be in a region already worn to a degree, and the regions within the letter-box bars were far less so.

So this is the part of this equation that's very difficult to understand because the mechanism for what's going on is not fully clear. There are certainly IGZO backplanes that are not exhibiting image retention (Apple has sold a lot of iPads and many people report no issues) while others are. What's the difference? Some sort of "transistor memory effect" is going on it seems. The unused portion of the screen is not getting current for extended periods of time and therefore is being seen as brighter / less "worn in".

How does one "reset" the display here? Running the slides might actually be sufficient. The effect is almost certainly not an actual different wear problem. Just dumping current into the whole display for long enough should eventually get the transistors to start behaving equivalently.

That said, there are flaws with this theory. First, perhaps the "memory affect" has some small but real ability to keep accumulating. Therefore, the black bars don't really catch up although due to an asymptote they get closer.

Second, what if there's some issue with some sort of capacitors or other circuitry affecting zones of the screen. We're seeing it on the visible part of the panel, but it's more of an illusion from an even more invisible part of the panel that controls linear (or or rectangular) portions of the screen. If so, the ability for the effect to keep being repeated could be something also approaching infinite and this technique could continue to fail to resolve the situation.

All that said, it's hard to see how it's going to make it any worse unless the mechanism is not related to the backplane at all.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #1274 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 03:38 PM
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Have any of you tried a xvycc color graded bluray with the TV set to xvycc? Like Sony's 'mastered in 4k' series

LG 55EA970 OLED
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post #1275 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 03:39 PM
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The effect is almost certainly not an actual different wear problem.

 

I'm not willing to buy into that just yet.  Thus far, to me it sounds precisely like a non-linear (early) wear problem.


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post #1276 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Desk. View Post

Would you expect the shop asking price to gradually fall during the space of the year, similar to what we've seen with the 2013/14 OLED models but perhaps not so precipitously?

After all, conventional LED 65" 4K sets will be continuing to fall in price during this time, while LG's OLED mass manufacturing will be coming online.

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TV prices usually go down, not up......... I would never have thought that the LG 55 would drop nearly 50% in the first 6 months it was out, so who knows.
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post #1277 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desk. View Post

Would you expect the shop asking price to gradually fall during the space of the year, similar to what we've seen with the 2013/14 OLED models but perhaps not so precipitously?

After all, conventional LED 65" 4K sets will be continuing to fall in price during this time, while LG's OLED mass manufacturing will be coming online.

Desk
TV prices usually go down, not up......... I would never have thought that the LG 55 would drop nearly 50% in the first 6 months it was out, so who knows.

 

I like to know what margin is left for the LG (dealer cost - manufacturing cost).


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post #1278 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 04:14 PM
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Yes, the image wear will absolutely compound itself over time. That's just a logical conclusion based on the fact that running slides does not fix, but subdue it enough to keep it hidden under grayscales. And that's based on some weeks worth of anamorphic content, give or take. So more and more adverse aspect ratios leave out different portions of the screen over time and early warning signs present themselves first on grays, at which point the smart owner now knows to run RGB+W color slides (as he should be running them every now and then regardless). It only seems to follow that after many such happenings this wear will stack enough to be visible on all colors, as it was before just ONE "color slide fix".

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post #1279 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 04:26 PM
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Btw VAK, I've found a way to make 2-3 second video clips which illustrate a bit of what I've been talking about with the extra dynamic shadowing ive never seen before that seems to be doing so much for graphics; so even with a degraded image transfer (albeit far less so than on photos), there would at least be at some purpose to this endeavor of sharing game footage.

I can't seem to upload them to the post itself though, is there any other place they might be able to go? Others might be interested too if they have any ideas where I can easily post them without making a YouTube account? They're very small in size.

In the meantime I'm trying to manipulate my lighting and phone camera settings into captiring something that looks even remotely similar to what's coming off my tv and it's not really happening so worse comes to worse and I can't do the vids then I'll pm these pics to you because you know why? It has something to do with something someone said that I WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagreed with a few pages ago in the context he used it, about having some "responsibility" as an early adopter to not be vocal about what aspects if the tv are horrible, because clearly there ARE those things. But as PQ is most certainly not one of them by any stretch of a blind man's intuition, those photos will come up in a Google search for "oled game pictures" and other such things for people not even reading the forum, that would be untrue and unfair due to how innacurrate they are

Desk.....not to start another debate but if you're still listening, THATS the difference wink.gif

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post #1280 of 7341 Old 04-07-2014, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I'm not willing to buy into that just yet.  Thus far, to me it sounds precisely like a non-linear (early) wear problem.

If it is, then the HUDs/static images/etc. should be getting burned in.

Wear can't magically just be affecting the black-bar areas. A backplane problem could.
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There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #1281 of 7341 Old 04-08-2014, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post


If it is, then the HUDs/static images/etc. should be getting burned in.

Wear can't magically just be affecting the black-bar areas. A backplane problem could.

 

Might it then be covered by the warranty if it is not technically burn-in, but "wear"?


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post #1282 of 7341 Old 04-08-2014, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I'm not willing to buy into that just yet.  Thus far, to me it sounds precisely like a non-linear (early) wear problem.
If it is, then the HUDs/static images/etc. should be getting burned in.

Wear can't magically just be affecting the black-bar areas. A backplane problem could.

If the area with the letter-box bars has seen less usage because the pixels were off, it could still be in the initial rapid wear period and at higher burn-in risk. The area in the center of the screen has likely seen many more hours and could be fading slower if we assume non-linear wear.

I guess it depends on where that HUD/static images are located. Were they inside the letter-box area? If so, were they displayed early on or later in the panel life?
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post #1283 of 7341 Old 04-08-2014, 01:46 AM
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It has something to do with something someone said that I WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagreed with a few pages ago in the context he used it, about having some "responsibility" as an early adopter to not be vocal about what aspects if the tv are horrible, because clearly there ARE those things
If you're going to paraphrase me incorrectly, it appears as if I have no option but to respond.

I never said you should not verbalise any issues you were experiencing with your TV. Instead, I said that as an earlier adopter in a position to greatly influence the public perception of a nascent technology upon which many hopes are based you have a responsibility to do so in a responsible manner. You'd only had your latest problem a matter of hours before you were vocally condemning this 'flimsy' technology, and before you'd attempted any basic remedial measures to address a problem which developed after you accidentally left a static image onscreen for six hours in contravention of clear instructions which accompanied your new TV. And this without even flagging up the problem with the manufacturer (instead relying on your pixel issue to obviate the situation).

Problems with new technology should definitely be highlighted, explored and debated, and early adopters play a key role in this process. I implore them to do so as responsible pioneers for those who look to follow.

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post #1284 of 7341 Old 04-08-2014, 06:38 AM
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I was absolutely correct in saying what I said about this "flimsy technology". It is flipping flimsy. Other people on the forum clearly agree. And since the truth hurts you so much for some reason, since you haven't invested in the tv and I have, I'll say it again: fragile, flimsy, watch your back.

I did show the tech the bars. He saw them and I said that, fool.

What the hell did him having to see it have anything to do with the fact that it was there anyway? Oh yeah, and of course 4 pixels also died right in front of his face. You're right, why should potential buyers know about this sftuff?

I was only sharing honest anecdotal evidence, whether there was a fix is irrellivant. Nothing can, or will fix any type of burn or uneven wear on oled and it doesn't take much research to learn that. But that doesn't MATTER. I I only posted an anecdotal truth : "look, here's my tv. Look at what happened to it". My responsibility as an owner.

The fact that color slides seem to help it in no way relieves this as a huge issue with a tv in the long run employing a technology of which we are the guinnea pigs, not consumers.

This tv has tmgreat picture quality and so I can only see a "courtesty", because in reality responsibility is a stupid word to use since I paid my money, is to not show pictures which will give the wrong impression of what IS indeed great about the tv.

See, it'd very simple. I learned it in pre k, that's just me:

Truth: okay.
False: not okay.

Go buy the tv and then you also will have earned the privilege to share all your good and bad experiences of it. Until then, you are not an owner and cannot tell me what I have or hanen't.

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post #1285 of 7341 Old 04-08-2014, 06:51 AM
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I was absolutely correct in saying what I said about this "flimsy technology". It is flipping flimsy. Other people on the forum clearly agree. And since the truth hurts you so much for some reason, since you haven't invested in the tv and I have, I'll say it again: fragile, flimsy, watch your back.

I did show the tech the bars. He saw them and I said that, fool.

What the hell did him having to see it have anything to do with the fact that it was there anyway? Oh yeah, and of course 4 pixels also died right in front of his face. You're right, why should potential buyers know about this sftuff?

I was only sharing honest anecdotal evidence, whether there was a fix is irrellivant. Nothing can, or will fix any type of burn or uneven wear on oled and it doesn't take much research to learn that. But that doesn't MATTER. I I only posted an anecdotal truth : "look, here's my tv. Look at what happened to it". My responsibility as an owner.

The fact that color slides seem to help it in no way relieves this as a huge issue with a tv in the long run employing a technology of which we are the guinnea pigs, not consumers.

This tv has tmgreat picture quality and so I can only see a "courtesty", because in reality responsibility is a stupid word to use since I paid my money, is to not show pictures which will give the wrong impression of what IS indeed great about the tv.

See, it'd very simple. I learned it in pre k, that's just me:

Truth: okay.
False: not okay.

Go buy the tv and then you also will have earned the privilege to share all your good and bad experiences of it. Until then, you are not an owner and cannot tell me what I have or hanen't.

I've nothing more to add. This speaks for itself.

Desk
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post #1286 of 7341 Old 04-08-2014, 06:55 AM
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^^^

I have asked for you to move on...

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post #1287 of 7341 Old 04-08-2014, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

I'm not willing to buy into that just yet.  Thus far, to me it sounds precisely like a non-linear (early) wear problem.
If it is, then the HUDs/static images/etc. should be getting burned in.

Wear can't magically just be affecting the black-bar areas. A backplane problem could.

If the area with the letter-box bars has seen less usage because the pixels were off, it could still be in the initial rapid wear period and at higher burn-in risk. The area in the center of the screen has likely seen many more hours and could be fading slower if we assume non-linear wear.

I guess it depends on where that HUD/static images are located. Were they inside the letter-box area? If so, were they displayed early on or later in the panel life?

 

^^^This is what I was getting at.


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post #1288 of 7341 Old 04-08-2014, 07:22 AM
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I've had huds up on the screen in different places since I got it.

If I sow a wind now, I will reap a storm.
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post #1289 of 7341 Old 04-08-2014, 07:33 AM
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I've had huds up on the screen in different places since I got it.

 

(?)  Where do they show up the strongest?


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post #1290 of 7341 Old 04-08-2014, 08:47 AM
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I've had huds up on the screen in different places since I got it.

What does 'HUD' stand for?
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