LG 55EA9800 55" OLED Owner's thread - Page 83 - AVS Forum
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post #2461 of 6217 Old 05-07-2014, 11:26 PM
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Every LCD i know have this problem and you can clearly see it with sports like football (i mean soccer...)....

http://cdn.avsforum.com/0/04/04800572_vbattach97591.jpeg

This effect never disapears...
I´m also an LCD owner and I have it too on my Sony.


Typically also are dark edges:

http://bilder.hifi-forum.de/medium/643425/dunkle-ecken_325529.jpg
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post #2462 of 6217 Old 05-07-2014, 11:30 PM
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No. LCD tv's do not suffer that problem or else you truly have a horrible tv. I've left LCD tvs on for days and even weeks on end without a hitch. Don't try to tell me an LCD is going to have burn in ever, let alone from a few movies. That's legitimate insanity.

Those pictures are of bands caused only on 65"+ displays; not uneven wear. Completely different.

Weve got lots of LCD and Plasma owners discussing the issue together. If it was something that happens on all sets we'd already have arrived at that conclusion. In Vinnies example in particular I must have watched the LOTR EE trilogy a handful of times on a handful of different tv's and never seen such a thing

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post #2463 of 6217 Old 05-07-2014, 11:42 PM
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Don't try to tell me an LCD is going to have burn in ever, let alone from a few movies. That's legitimate insanity.

Come down please! When i told to you, that these are burn in issues? These are typically LCD issues for uneven backlighting which can be seen with every content for day and night.
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Those pictures are of bands caused only on 65"+ displays; not uneven wear. Completely different.

What? No, my TV is only a 40" and it has all these problems. All LCD TVs in every sizes have these problems more or less. Even my iPod has it. I bought my first LCD in 2005! I clearly know the issues and limitation of LCD technology.
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post #2464 of 6217 Old 05-07-2014, 11:46 PM
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Well, just flat out No. Sorry. Others will chime in tomorrow I'm sure but just plain old no. What do you think this is the first display any of us has ever owned? Seriously, dude. You aren't paying attention. LCD tvs DO NOT get uneven wear, that is what LCD is known for. PLASMA does but even then it's over extended periods of time, not one movie trilogy. Quit while you're ahead as you're spinning a fantasy that adds nothing to the discussion.

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post #2465 of 6217 Old 05-07-2014, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ALMA View Post

What? No, my TV is only a 40" and it has all these problems. All LCD TVs in every sizes have these problems more or less. Even my iPod has it. I bought my first LCD in 2005! I clearly know the issues and limitation of LCD technology.

Your gear is defective or low grade plain and simple no discussion to be had. I've had four Sony LCD's, 3 iPods and well, absolutely not. The single only reason people choose LCD over plasma is to not worry about such things, as plasma has much better PQ but does have these issues.....only still not even close to on this scale.

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post #2466 of 6217 Old 05-07-2014, 11:56 PM
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I think that ALMA is just saying that LCD/LEDs have a lot of issues (like DSE) and most people don't care (only videophiles). That's the reason why there are no reports about OLED issues on the web - only few people are so 'picky' about TVs like us.

I'm curious how the 2014 models with the Adaptive SVDD will cope with uneven wear issues.
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post #2467 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 12:02 AM
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Well, it sounds more like he's saying that every tv has immediate burn in; LCD included which is obviosusly fantasy. But even still, I can clearly understand how non videophiles could overlook dead subpixels, but not uneven wear like we're seeing so early in the game. If it was anybody other than Vinnie who watched that trilogy maybe they wouldn't notice. But that's ONE trilogy. Compound that now over one or two years of letterboxed movies. That's the discussion here.

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post #2468 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ALMA View Post

Every LCD i know have this problem and you can clearly see it with sports like football (i mean soccer...)....

http://cdn.avsforum.com/0/04/04800572_vbattach97591.jpeg

This effect never disapears...
I´m also an LCD owner and I have it too on my Sony.

If every LCD truly suffered from problems like the one you have shown, plasma would have won - end of story. LCDs may be far from perfect, but they are reliable and consistent, which is the primary weakness of the current crop of LG OLEDs this owners thread if focused on right now.

To imply that these OLED defects are no big deal and less significant than defects of 'every LCD' is disingenuous and inaccurate. BI/IR was one of the major nails in the coffin of plasma - even after making strides to reduce the impact of those problems, they could never completely shake the reputation for fragility and the risk of damage to the picture quality that they had established.

With LCD, at least the image imperfections you see on day one remain the only image imperfections you can expect to see the day before you toss the panel into the junk heap.
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post #2469 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 12:05 AM
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Well, it sounds more like he's saying that every tv has immediate burn in; LCD included which is obviosusly fantasy.

No! rolleyes.gif
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I think that ALMA is just saying that LCD/LEDs have a lot of issues (like DSE) and most people don't care (only videophiles). That's the reason why there are no reports about OLED issues on the web - only few people are so 'picky' about TVs like us.

Correct! smile.gif

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Quit while you're ahead as you're spinning a fantasy that adds nothing to the discussion.

You ask why other people not see your problem. I told you, that a typically average user also not see uneven backlighting on his LCD. That´s the reason. They never searching for issues on their TV sets and the most OLED users I know also very satisfied with their purchase because the picture quality is a leap forward than their old LCD (uneven backlighting, poor performance in dark rooms) or Plasma (poorer performance in well lit rooms, flickering, phosphor trails etc.) sets.
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If every LCD truly suffered from problems like the one you have shown, plasma would have won - end of story.

See the explanation before, why it´s for the most average user not a big problem and they can live with it. That´s also the reason why streaming of movies will be the future choice of the industrie. The consumer is satisfied with low quality when it´s cheap and they don´t see the differences to higher Blu-ray quality video.
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With LCD, at least the image imperfections you see on day one remain the only image imperfections you can expect to see the day before you toss the panel into the junk heap.

No, because also the backlighting gets darker and also LED LCD-TVs suffers from backlighting color changes over time and for example getting a yellowish or greenish tint. Also the TFT backplane ages.
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post #2470 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by ALMA View Post

You ask why other people not see your problem. I told you, that a typically average user also not see uneven backlighting on his LCD. That´s the reason. They never searching for issues on their TV sets and the most OLED users I know also very satisfied with their purchase because the picture quality is a leap forward than their old LCD (uneven backlighting, poor performance in dark rooms) or Plasma (poorer performance in well lit rooms, phosphor trails etc.) sets.

Only like I said a hundred times....what happens after the issue is COMPOUNDED OVER A YEAR? If a trilogy of letterboxed movies is producing a problem for videophiles at this early stage, let's be fearful of the future for everyone. As for everything else you said about LCD make sure you read fafrd's post above.

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post #2471 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 12:28 AM
 
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In my case, the OLED does several things better than my flagship plasma but grayscale uniformity and resilience against this uneven wear issue is not one of them. Motion isn't either, but I've never been one to be afflicted by phosphor trails.

I'm happy to report that it seems like the white slide (ran it constantly for 20 some odd hours) has brought the uniformity back to near baseline levels. The lines demarcating the letterbox were difficult if not impossible to see on the same movie this evening (Valkyrie). I am at 460+ hours now on the TV itself (not sure if that includes the first panel, but that does seem probable since there was no known reset initiated by the techs). This can be seen in the settings if you hunt for it, "System Information," I believe. A hat tip to a dearly departed (from the forum) fellow who gave me this head's up (I don't recall it being mentioned here before).

I'd say the screen is at least 95% back to baseline...so if you want stress-free viewing on this marvel, zoom in nonstop! I'm glad LG is acutely aware of this reality...and could be a reason in part for the sharp price reductions.
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Thanks again for that white slide tip, Plague. Leaving the one slide on and using, I believe, the "slide" transition setting, the OLED outputted a steady always-on white without interruption. This was the best (yet) means of getting those letterbox bars back in line.
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post #2473 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 12:44 AM
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Only like I said a hundred times....what happens after the issue is COMPOUNDED OVER A YEAR? If a trilogy of letterboxed movies is producing a problem for videophiles at this early stage, let's be fearful of the future for everyone. As for everything else you said about LCD make sure you read fafrd's post above.

You really have to come down... "dude"... ;-)

An average user never looking letterbox movies every time on his TV. You also had no problems with static images or numbers from videogames? So that could mean if you use the TV with ordinary braodcasting TV, which often is full screen (also like videogames) and mix it with handfull BD movies in a month, than its plausible that such an user won´t remark your letterbox problem. The most videophiles also to prefer a projector for film and not a 55" display. The most average people take a display for daily TV. That was a situation, where Plasma was not the best choice against LCD and why it failed.

I can tell you a story from last year 3-4 weeks before the CES, as I asked a dealer here in Germany about upcomming OLED TVs. He said, Samsung will made a pause because of issues with their OLED TVs. That was long before the currently bad Samsung OLED press news. Nobody believed me and him... He also said to me, LG will bring out new and better OLED-TVs for 2014. They have sending their store demo back to Samsung, because of burn-in issues. But they still had the LG as store demo, which clearly shows ordinary broadcasting TV content like an average user will look and still has no burn-in issues. A TV in a store runs easily 10 hours a day! So if the burn-in problem is really so big like you said, than why they only sending the Samsung OLED - because of burn-in - back to Samsung and not also the LG? Here it seems that for daily TV the LG is the better choice than the Samsung. That was really strange, because in every review the Samsung was tested as very resitant to burn-in, but the LG shows it in burn-in tests, even when they ever stated it was reversible. So could it be that the LG only has a problem with burn-in when pixels are not used and the Samsung more with static images for a longer time like broadcasting logos?
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post #2474 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Thanks again for that white slide tip, Plague. Leaving the one slide on and using, I believe, the "slide" transition setting, the OLED outputted a steady always-on white without interruption. This was the best (yet) means of getting those letterbox bars back in line.

Cool!! I just figured better to let all the sub pixels run than none of them If there was some memory issue going on. Great to hear.

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post #2475 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ALMA View Post

You really have to come down... "dude"... ;-)

An average user never looking letterbox movies every time on his TV. You also had no problems with static images or numbers from videogames? So that could mean if you use the TV with ordinary braodcasting TV, which often is full screen (also like videogames) and mix it with handfull BD movies in a month, than its plausible that such an user won´t remark your letterbox problem. The most videophiles also to prefer a projector for film and not a 55" display. The most average people take a display for daily TV. That was a situation, where Plasma was not the best choice against LCD and why it failed.

I can tell you a story from last year 3-4 weeks before the CES, as I asked a dealer here in Germany about upcomming OLED TVs. He said, Samsung will made a pause because of issues with their OLED TVs. That was long before the currently bad Samsung OLED press news. Nobody believed me and him... He also said to me, LG will bring out new and better OLED-TVs for 2014. They have sending their store demo back to Samsung, because of burn-in issues. But they still had the LG as store demo, which clearly shows ordinary broadcasting TV content like an average user will look and still has no burn-in issues. A TV in a store runs easily 10 hours a day! So if the burn-in problem is really so big like you said, than why they only sending the Samsung OLED - because of burn-in - back to Samsung and not also the LG? Here it seems that for daily TV the LG is the better choice than the Samsung. That was really strange, because in every review the Samsung was tested as very resitant to burn-in, but the LG shows it in burn-in tests, even when they ever stated it was reversible. So could it be that the LG only has a problem with burn-in when pixels are not used and the Samsung more with static images for a longer time like broadcasting logos?

You're right. There's no issue that LCD doesn't also have. We're just making it up. Caught me wink.gif

Anyway, back on topic...

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post #2476 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 05:55 AM
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I'm thinking of watching a letterboxed movie tonight. Hopefully there are ways of keeping this relegated to grayscales if indeed Vinnie's has been. I think I'll try one movie at a time, though...

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post #2477 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 06:03 AM
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LG has still sold thousands of these regardless....and where is everyone? I know only very few people purchased when first released, but surely some very VERY early adopters exist who bought this tv when it was ten thousand just because of their excitement at the prospect of owning the home's first OLED.

Where are any of these people now? Are there any other AV forums as widespread as this one? Surely someone whose been using the set for a whole year should be able to clear almost all this up instantly

 

I would be surprised if 1% of the people buying TVs even know that television forums exist.  I would be surprised if 1% of those people that know they exist would even venture out to post about it.

 

Even if you say that the LG sales are somehow confined to videophiles (they're not), and even if you say that the percentages I listed above are therefore higher, the compound effect will still yield a very very small showing here.

 

And don't forget: Of those people that venture online to ask folks: how many people put end up asking questions about all kinds of things on ask.com and/or yahoo? 


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post #2478 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 06:16 AM
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Well, just flat out No. Sorry. Others will chime in tomorrow I'm sure but just plain old no. What do you think this is the first display any of us has ever owned? Seriously, dude. You aren't paying attention. LCD tvs DO NOT get uneven wear, that is what LCD is known for. PLASMA does but even then it's over extended periods of time, not one movie trilogy. Quit while you're ahead as you're spinning a fantasy that adds nothing to the discussion.

 

And here we have an important distinction being made between the initial uneven wear based IR and some other kind of static image based IR.

 

IPS LCD will show image retention, but you cannot defeat this by priming the LCD array.  IPS is what you'll see most commonly referred to if googling around and I know of no case of any VA situation showing IR but I don't completely doubt it.  In theory, the LCD itself might gate the light (twist it actually) slightly differently when set the same way for too long.  In either case I've never heard of it being permanent.

 

And it has nothing to do whatsoever with the initial uneven wear curve of OLED and plasma.


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post #2479 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 06:22 AM
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In my case, the OLED does several things better than my flagship plasma but grayscale uniformity and resilience against this uneven wear issue is not one of them. Motion isn't either, but I've never been one to be afflicted by phosphor trails.

I'm happy to report that it seems like the white slide (ran it constantly for 20 some odd hours) has brought the uniformity back to near baseline levels.

 

I was hoping this would be the case.  >phew<.  However I fear for the future.

 

I have to wonder if a quickly flashing (don't try this) white/black would "degaus" the situation quicker----if the issue is related to changing vs. non-changing, then perhaps it's the heat generated by the changing 1.85 (over the cooled off letterbars) that was doing this.


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post #2480 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 06:25 AM
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Hey vinnie, so just to confirm it's now either only visible on grayscale or barely visible?

Where did you get the constant white image from , or did you just make a folder on a thumb drive with only the white slide inside?

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post #2481 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 06:27 AM
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I've read post about using slides to reduce/remedy IR but does this display have a screen wipe feature that may actually work better?

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post #2482 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 06:29 AM
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I've read post about using slides to reduce/remedy IR but does this display have a screen wipe feature that may actually work better?

Nope, this tv has no features that address burn or IR. The screen dims a bit if left on a static image.......that's the extent of it lol

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post #2483 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 06:51 AM
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I've read post about using slides to reduce/remedy IR but does this display have a screen wipe feature that may actually work better?

Nope, this tv has no features that address burn or IR. The screen dims a bit if left on a static image.......that's the extent of it lol
The Samsung OLED has Screen Burn Protection

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post #2484 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 06:57 AM
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A screensaver AND a pixel shifter. Nice.

...and they're the ones ditching OLED?

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post #2485 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 07:10 AM
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Theplague13 think you miss understood ALMA he wasn't saying LCD's come with burn in but they have so many problems but the average Joe doesn't care like he said LCD show DSE like mad on football and that's why I wont touch them and the LG LCD that looks so bad to me no one else cares about rest of my family think I'm mad and there's nothing there I see them watching golf and I can see the jail bar lines but some how they don't.

The average Joe doesn't care about picture quality that's how LCD won my family don't even use the HD channels they'll sit there watching a show in SD when they could be watching the same show in HD I always just pick up the remote and change it without saying anything.
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Originally Posted by coopson View Post

Theplague13 think you miss understood ALMA he wasn't saying LCD's come with burn in but they have so many problems but the average Joe doesn't care like he said LCD show DSE like mad on football and that's why I wont touch them and the LG LCD that looks so bad to me no one else cares about rest of my family think I'm mad and there's nothing there I see them watching golf and I can see the jail bar lines but some how they don't.

The average Joe doesn't care about picture quality that's how LCD won my family don't even use the HD channels they'll sit there watching a show in SD when they could be watching the same show in HD I always just pick up the remote and change it without saying anything.

LOL biggrin.gif I do the same! rolleyes.gif

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post #2487 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 07:16 AM
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No I know, and you're right (though that's not how he initially posted it, either way I dont really care) but i've posted elsewhere too about just how wrecklessly blind the average person seems to be when it comes to the stuff they spent thousands of dollars on. But if we're talking about image wear that is clearly visible on dynamic content after just a few movies then certainly after a year it would be bad enough even for the average Joe to see; which is what I was trying to get across.

Vinnie97, one of the kindest, most helpful and respected members here, got one of these. I wonder how much longer before we all get such a message...
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post #2488 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theplague13 View Post

No I know, and you're right (though that's not how he initially posted it, either way I dont really care) but i've posted elsewhere too about just how wrecklessly blind the average person seems to be when it comes to the stuff they spent thousands of dollars on. But if we're talking about image wear that is clearly visible on dynamic content after just a few movies then certainly after a year it would be bad enough even for the average Joe to see; which is what I was trying to get across.

No doubt if one movie makes it show up it will get bad enough we don't know how bad it can get and LG wont tell us.
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post #2489 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 07:32 AM
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Lg got back to me

"Thank you for your email regarding your 55EA980W

I have taken your query up with one of the senior technicians who advied that there is no need to run the television in atall, you are not going to recieve screen burn if you watch something once it would be a case of watching the same thing constantly over a course of months and not hours.

I hope my email has answered your query and assisted you today; I would really appreciate your feedback. Please help us to improve our customer service by completing the short survey after this email."
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post #2490 of 6217 Old 05-08-2014, 07:42 AM
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Well at least he contacted someone who knew what OLED was, who then confirmed that burn in is possible. I hardly expected he would outright say it could happen after only hours of use, that would be a self-damning email to send a potential customer.

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