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post #1 of 18 Old 10-29-2013, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I recently got the Sony 46W802A but the black levels are terrible. I will be returning this tv and replacing it with something else. The problem is, I don't know what that something else is. Picture quality is very important to me, and I feel like if I am to pay over a grand, I should get something good. I am primarily using the tv for gaming with a little tv and film.

I was originally looking at the Panasonic ST60, but all the posts about image retention, and input lag, heat production, is turning me away. However, it seems like only plasma will be able to satisfy my picture quality needs.

I was also thinking of trying to order a sony HX850 online. Would this be a good choice? Anyone know whee to find a HX850 in the chicago area?

I have no idea what to do. I am looking for something around 46-50 inches.
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post #2 of 18 Old 10-29-2013, 04:52 PM
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The HX850 is one of best Edge-Lits out there. If that does not work for you Plasma is the only way to go..
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57442002-221/sony-hx850-early-candidate-for-best-lcd-tv-of-2012/
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post #3 of 18 Old 10-29-2013, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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the problem is finding a 46HX850 locally. I might have to go online
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post #4 of 18 Old 11-01-2013, 06:06 AM
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Image retention? What is this 2002? Panasonic plasma and do your homework next time.
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post #5 of 18 Old 11-01-2013, 01:15 PM
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If you're dissatisfied with the W800's 'black', what would the H850 offer you instead? The black levels remain the same.

Go with a plasma and never look back. Next year, you might not even be able to make a choice. Get one before they're all gone.
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post #6 of 18 Old 11-01-2013, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Everything I have read about the HX850 says that the black levels are superior compared to the W802A. The HX850 is basically the same as the W900A which has much better black level.
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post #7 of 18 Old 11-01-2013, 04:49 PM
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Does the HX850 use local dimming or global dimming? Because that would be the main difference between them. If it's just using global dimming like the W802A, don't expect anything different.
Plasma does have the best black levels of a set you can buy today (other than the $10,000 OLED displays) but there are a lot of drawbacks to it. If the primary use is gaming, I would definitely be concerned about image retention/burn-in, especially if you spend a lot of time with the same game. (static HUD elements etc.)
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post #8 of 18 Old 11-01-2013, 05:37 PM
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'' the W802A is closer to last year's disappointing HX750 than the excellent HX850''
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sony-kdl-47w802a/4505-6482_7-35661317.html

There is also a comparison between the FALD HX950 and the Edge Lit HX850
''HX950 blacklevels are slighty deeper than the VT50 and the HX850''
''HX950 shadow detail was a bit worse than the HX850''
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sony-xbr-55hx950/4505-6482_7-35431205-2.html


If i had to buy a Edge Lit today first thing i would do is take a good look at the HX850 wink.gif
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post #9 of 18 Old 11-01-2013, 05:42 PM
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There are a lot of drawbacks to LCDs too. Uniformity issues, banding issues, inferior motion performance that goes counter to what hardcore gamers really require.

And local dimming will not save the edge-lits from mediocre blacks, not with its dinky 16 LED dimming zones.

Samsung F8500 is already nearly the best flat panel TV for gaming contents. I say nearly because its high input lag needs work, but once that issue is rectified, it will be extremely difficult to recommend LCDs for gaming purposes, because the F8500 will then have a very few weaknesses, while there are still so many from the LCDs.
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post #10 of 18 Old 11-01-2013, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

inferior motion performance that goes counter to what hardcore gamers really require.
Actually, LCDs are on top for motion performance these days.
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And local dimming will not save the edge-lits from mediocre blacks, not with its dinky 16 LED dimming zones.
My point was that if the HX850 is only using global dimming like the W802A, then it's likely not going to be a worthwhile difference.
Even though local dimming with an edge lit display is nowhere near as effective as an LED backlit display, it could contribute to considerably better black levels on the HX850 than the W802A. (though not necessarily putting it on par with plasmas)
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Samsung F8500 is already nearly the best flat panel TV for gaming contents. I say nearly because its high input lag needs work
So it's a really good display for gaming, apart from the thing that makes it unsuitable for gaming.


Everything is a compromise today. Hopefully that will no longer be the case in a few years, once they sort out OLED.
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post #11 of 18 Old 11-01-2013, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

There are a lot of drawbacks to LCDs too. Uniformity issues, banding issues, inferior motion performance that goes counter to what hardcore gamers really require.

And local dimming will not save the edge-lits from mediocre blacks, not with its dinky 16 LED dimming zones.

Samsung F8500 is already nearly the best flat panel TV for gaming contents. I say nearly because its high input lag needs work, but once that issue is rectified, it will be extremely difficult to recommend LCDs for gaming purposes, because the F8500 will then have a very few weaknesses, while there are still so many from the LCDs.

And yet some of Plasma's issues are just as counter productive.

Phosophor trails, heavy DSE, Flickering, higher power usage, higher heat, more noise, dithering, often lack of 4:4:4 support (Which is 100% needed for gaming. Unless you like sub-sampled half to quarter color resolution), input latency issues with many models.


At this point, not even OLED would be perfect due to blur caused by Sample and hold.


Trade offs. It's all about what you are willing to live with.
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post #12 of 18 Old 11-01-2013, 10:23 PM
 
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^Most of which you've overblown quite impressively. wink.gif The phosphor trails phenomenon is detectable by a small minority...try to say the same about poor uniformity (I'd put DSE on the same level...heavy DSE, maybe on the low-end sets). Dithering and noise (one in the same), virtually imperceptible at a typical sitting distance. More heat and higher power usage are just talking points. The lack of 4:4:4 sampling capability has nothing to do with any perceived imperfection of Plasma, but is little more than a manufacturer's choice. Once again, LCD's more strikingly visible inferiority was laid bare in this Consumer Reports lab "shootout" with both UHD LCDs and 1080p LCDs and Plasma. All the arguments to the contrary, these types of comparisons always bring the same results (yes, you'll see I'm channeling my Artwood in the aforementioned last thread, TGM). All that being said, the threat of IR and uneven wear would keep me from using a plasma for predominantly gaming.

Hopefully, OLED someday (2017?) will come along and save us from having to make all these miserable compromises and tradeoffs. At least we have that option now...in an LCD only world, that choice is stripped from us.
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post #13 of 18 Old 11-02-2013, 12:11 AM
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Anyone with eyes for picture quality should be able to pick up Phosphor trails. Which completely ruin IQ (IMO).

Even on Lagless CRTs Phosphor trails detract heavily from IQ
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post #14 of 18 Old 11-02-2013, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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HX850 has local dimming
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post #15 of 18 Old 11-02-2013, 11:28 AM
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hx850 is not local dimming and OP, dont get the hx850.
my dad bought it last year since he's a sony fanboy, and its honestly one of the worst tvs you could purchase.

not only is the contrast poor, but the colors are very very weak, which is something no one here has pointed out.

i have a 3 year old samsung c8000, he has the hx850, and my brother has a samsung f8000, all in the same home. the samsungs both look very similar in terms of color and daytime viewing, with the f8000 having a small edge with night viewing.
but the hx850 is a joke compared to both, especially if it cant compete with a 3 year old samsung semi-flagship.

oh, and not to mention, the UI on the hx850 is a lag-fest when compared to the smooth, very well thought out UI on the F8000. even the c8000 with a 3 year old processor is faster than the hx850.
its almost as if the set is defective, and perhaps it is, because the UI is so slow. changing inputs for example, you need to wait like 15 seconds for the option to show up.

dont get the sony.
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post #16 of 18 Old 11-02-2013, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaXPL View Post

the colors are very very weak, which is something no one here has pointed out.
Based on what?

sat-tracking.jpg

That's almost perfect BT.709 reproduction.

Perhaps you are used to older displays with inaccurate color.
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oh, and not to mention, the UI on the hx850 is a lag-fest when compared to the smooth, very well thought out UI on the F8000. even the c8000 with a 3 year old processor is faster than the hx850.
No arguments here, Sony's UI has been very slow for a while now. But if you are constantly changing picture settings etc. you're doing something wrong.
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its almost as if the set is defective, and perhaps it is, because the UI is so slow. changing inputs for example, you need to wait like 15 seconds for the option to show up.
That does sound defective.
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post #17 of 18 Old 11-02-2013, 05:43 PM
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do you own a HX850? have you seen one?

if not, what tv do you own?
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post #18 of 18 Old 11-05-2013, 11:03 AM
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Image retention? What is this 2002? Panasonic plasma and do your homework next time.

 

If you did your homework, you'd realize that there are still complaints about IR.  While it's true that more than ever it's been relegated to the "there must be something wrong" bin by most of the plasma lovers here, your attitude that the OP was lazy to not research the problem is out of line.  It's still a complaint.  It's still happening.


Grow milkweed. The Monarch Butterfly requires it, and its numbers are dwindling fast.
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