Forget 4K-All I want is 1080P with no glare - Page 9 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 252 Old 04-23-2015, 11:09 AM
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My curved OLED arrived and I think I have to go out of pocket to send it back.

The curve is simply awful as it creates dozens of reflections. Before with a plasma I could get rid of the reflections (as it was just one spot), now it's just and endless mirrored reflection nightmare.

So bummed out.
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post #242 of 252 Old 04-28-2015, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumata;30[QUOTE=Rumata View Post
I can tell you, that glossy screen is not a reasonable feature, but only a selfish decision from TV manufacturers, to spare money on anti-reflecting surface.
Matte panels ≠ Anti-reflective panels.
There are certainly use-cases where it is helpful to have matte panels, but you don't want a 70" matte panel. You may think that you do, but it's going to display a hazy, dim, washed-out image most of the time.

For anyone looking to get objective information, RTINGS have some results up for 2015 models now: http://www.rtings.com/info/reflectio...tte-and-glossy
But no-one here is going to like what they demonstrate, since their results align with what I have been saying all along: a glossy panel with a proper anti-reflective coating should give you a higher contrast image with less distracting reflections when you actually compare the displays under the same conditions.

From their bright room testing, here is a semi-matte panel (matte no longer exists for TVs and would be worse)


And here is a coated glossy panel:


Yes, the reflections are more defined - but you can actually still make out some of the image through them, which I consider to be far less distracting.
Now this is not to say that I think current AR-coated glossy panels are ideal. I certainly think it would be worthwhile to move beyond that to a "moth-eye" coating, even if that does mean sacrificing a little bit of contrast, because it really is the best of all types.
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post #243 of 252 Old 04-28-2015, 04:03 PM
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You are right, semi mate is worst of both worlds - no arguing about that.

I'm also like "if i'm ever going to buy a black mirror, then it should be really mirror." - smaller sharp reflections are still better then same reflections only smeared to be bigger.

Well and until there is some 70" mate screen compared we would never know if it will be worse or better then gloss, as there are none

Tough from NEC matte 46" display i can tell that, for me, overall "image quality" is the better (well i can __clearly__ see the image without seeing my face in it ). I admit it can't display black black, but i do have no reflections with lights on and still picture is pretty clear - again, obviously mirrors do have MUCH more "vivid" picture in areas with no reflections displaying bright colors - (if there are such areas, obviously ). So for me the viewing experience is much better, without distractions.

Also there is huge aspect how it looks whet it is off and i just prefer not having black mirror in my living room. So it is personal preferences in that too.
There is now quite cheap 55" dell for the minority that prefers mate displays. At least i hope it is mate, i never saw it in person.

Last edited by evlo; 04-28-2015 at 04:16 PM.
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post #244 of 252 Old 04-28-2015, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbineseaplane View Post
My curved OLED arrived and I think I have to go out of pocket to send it back.

The curve is simply awful as it creates dozens of reflections. Before with a plasma I could get rid of the reflections (as it was just one spot), now it's just and endless mirrored reflection nightmare.

So bummed out.
Word to the wise - Buy locally if you can so you're not in my bag of hurt (for return shipping)
I agree. I found the reflections on the curved panel to be very distracting due to the parallax effect.

Also, since the curved surface is imperfect, there are dimples in the reflections, which makes the sets look like crap IMO.

Earlier in this thread there were discussed films which can be applied to the screen to diffuse reflections. I would definitely consider one of those for an LG OLED. Has the added benefit of protecting the screen.
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post #245 of 252 Old 04-28-2015, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Maltby View Post
Oh yeah, definitely. But I just didn't feel like I had a light tight enough space for one. It always gets me when the plasma crowd talks about their dark viewing rooms, I'm like 'get a projector already!'
.
Alas the dark room required for good plasma viewing is light years away from the dark room required for good front protector viewing.
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post #246 of 252 Old 04-28-2015, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosCloud View Post
I agree. I found the reflections on the curved panel to be very distracting due to the parallax effect.

Also, since the curved surface is imperfect, there are dimples in the reflections, which makes the sets look like crap IMO.

Earlier in this thread there were discussed films which can be applied to the screen to diffuse reflections. I would definitely consider one of those for an LG OLED. Has the added benefit of protecting the screen.
What has worked best for me is mounting with a slight downward angle - but nothing helps with the view of the panel from other areas of the room, especially when it's off.

Oh well - Is what it is. When I'm seated and the set is on - My jaw drops at how gorgeous it is.

Life is just tradeoffs I guess.
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post #247 of 252 Old 04-28-2015, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by evlo View Post
I'm also like "if i'm ever going to buy a black mirror, then it should be really mirror." - smaller sharp reflections are still better then same reflections only smeared to be bigger.
The point is that a proper anti-reflective coating is far from being a "black mirror" like many people here are suggesting. It is not at all like the cheap uncoated panels found on many inexpensive notebook displays, or anything like the shiny plastic bezel on your TV.

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Originally Posted by evlo View Post
Tough from NEC matte 46" display i can tell that, for me, overall "image quality" is the better (well i can __clearly__ see the image without seeing my face in it )
But have you actually compared a modern 46" panel with an anti-reflective coating in the same location, or are you just assuming that your matte panel is better?

In situations where you have very dim reflections on the panel, a totally matte screen may be the best option, as it will just appear to have a lower contrast image without obscuring anything. But at the same time, if it's dim enough to not be a problem for a matte panel, it should not be an issue for a modern panel with an AR coating either.

When you actually do a proper comparison with the displays under the same conditions, an AR-coated panel tends to look better than a matte one in most viewing conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evlo View Post
I admit it can't display black black, but i do have no reflections with lights on and still picture is pretty clear
If you don't have reflections on a matte panel, you shouldn't have reflections on a glossy one either. Matte panels only diffuse the reflections across the surface of the display, they do not reduce reflections at all, the way that an AR coating does. And any time you have reflections on a matte panel, they are at the same depth as the display and you simply cannot see anything on that area of the display due to the glare.

An uncoated glossy panel is a "mirror" with horribly bright reflections, but AR coatings make a huge difference.



EDIT: And on the subject of curved vs flat displays.

Curved semi-gloss Samsung:


(note: semi-gloss is basically what you end up with after applying one of those matte films to a screen)

Flat Samsung under the same conditions:


(I assume AR-coated, though it's a lower-end coating if it is)

Last edited by Chronoptimist; 04-28-2015 at 09:26 PM.
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post #248 of 252 Old 04-29-2015, 04:00 PM
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"Matte panels only diffuse the reflections across the surface of the display" - I know this is what people that like (?) the glossy displays are saying, it might even be true, but thing is it works and there are no reflections. I think that yes, under direct sunlight you would get better picture on the gloss display then matte, but in my viewing conditions, that i consider common, it is just worse

But have you actually compared a modern 46" panel with an anti-reflective coating in the same location
No, but i tried 48" and 55" ones.

BTW Still i would prefer matte even if only advantage would be no reflections when turned off.

Again - i agree that semigloss is the combination of worst of the both worlds.

Last edited by evlo; 04-29-2015 at 04:10 PM.
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post #249 of 252 Old 04-29-2015, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evlo View Post
"Matte panels only diffuse the reflections across the surface of the display" - I know this is what people that like (?) the glossy displays are saying, it might even be true, but thing is it works and there are no reflections. I think that yes, under direct sunlight you would get better picture on the gloss display then matte, but in my viewing conditions, that i consider common, it is just worse

But have you actually compared a modern 46" panel with an anti-reflective coating in the same location
No, but i tried 48" and 55" ones.

BTW Still i would prefer matte even if only advantage would be no reflections when turned off.

Again - i agree that semigloss is the combination of worst of the both worlds.
I disagree, but Chron and I have had a friendly disagreement over this for some time now.

The very worst of all possible worlds is a highly reflective panel where the reflections are readily formed and can easily be focused on. If there's an object that can be focused on, you will more likely than not be struggling to not focus on it.

As a software engineer, I was very dismayed when every notebook PC of any worth switched over from matte to high gloss. They became a nightmare to work on, and if I had a white shirt on I could forget about getting anything done in a lit room. By contrast (no pun), my Ispiron 6000 heavily matted screen (I don't know how else to qualify "matte") was dramatically easier to work on.

A bright fuzzy reflection was much easier to deal with than an equally bright clear reflection. Any day.

I would strongly advise you to avoid StackOverflow and the other StackExchange (SuperUser, etc.) sites. They reward anti-social behavior and pedantry by granting ever increasing moderator-like powers to anyone gaining enough reputation points (similar to "likes" in forums), including the ability to edit your question. If you must use them, please read this article first.
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post #250 of 252 Old 04-30-2015, 05:49 PM
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Where da moth-eye at?
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post #251 of 252 Old 05-01-2015, 09:28 PM
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I disagree, but Chron and I have had a friendly disagreement over this for some time now.
The very worst of all possible worlds is a highly reflective panel where the reflections are readily formed and can easily be focused on. If there's an object that can be focused on, you will more likely than not be struggling to not focus on it.
Well I do agree that an uncoated glossy panel is the worst thing ever.
It's once anti-reflective coatings get involved that it is not such a simple comparison.

I am not accusing anyone in particular of this, but it does almost feel like the people complaining about the lack of matte panels are thinking that displays are the same they were 5-10 years ago back when "glossy" meant they just removed the matte finish or placed a pane of glass in front of the screen, instead of replacing it with an anti-reflective coating. (though there are still cheap panels which are like this)
Or that matte panels on a notebook which are <15" in size and the position is easily adjusted, are going to behave the same as a matte panel which is >50" in size and fixed in place on your wall.
And where the choice was between glossy/matte, not semi-matte (worst of both worlds) or an AR-coated panel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
As a software engineer, I was very dismayed when every notebook PC of any worth switched over from matte to high gloss. They became a nightmare to work on, and if I had a white shirt on I could forget about getting anything done in a lit room. By contrast (no pun), my Ispiron 6000 heavily matted screen (I don't know how else to qualify "matte") was dramatically easier to work on.
Trying to read text, where contrast does not matter (printed paper is something like 10:1) is a separate issue though.
Text is very small relative to the size of the display, and even a small reflection can cover it and become a distraction.
But having compared like-for-like under the same conditions, I will take the new AR-coated MacBook Pro displays over any of the old matte displays - though the old glossy displays were the absolute worst, where they just stuck a pane of glass in front of a glossy LCD. (Why!?)
The matte panels were so dim and low contrast in bright light that you simply couldn't read the screen, even if there were no defined "reflections" on the display because they were perfectly diffused.

As an engineer, I can perhaps imagine that you may be used to white-on-black text though, which is one situation where a matte panel may be preferable for text.
But that's still going to be incredibly dim to view in a bright environment, while black-on-white text lets you turn up the backlight to at least try and fight against the ambient light level.

However in the typical home environment, and at the sizes of modern displays, it's a different story with televisions.
You can get away with a matte panel if the display is small, you can freely adjust its position, and your priority is being able to read text over all else.
I have a matte screen protector affixed to my phone (in part because glossy ones just feel awful to use) but would not consider a matte television where mine is currently located.
Though there are reflections on the TV at certain times of day, having those reflections diffused over the surface would make it unusable - and I know that because there used to be a true matte panel in its place - while the AR coating means that I can still see what is "underneath" the dulled reflection.

As I have said many times, I also want to see a wider release of displays with this moth-eye coating, because it looks as though it should be superior to traditional AR coatings.
But I don't think the reason that matte panels went away - at least on televisions - was simply because the were "not popular enough".
It's no coincidence that they started to disappear once LCDs started to get much larger than ~32" and started to compete with plasmas on size. (not that there were no panels up to say 50" with a true matte coating, but those quickly disappeared)
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post #252 of 252 Unread Today, 07:52 AM
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sadly, the Dell i mentioned is mirror, so only matte on the market AFAIK is iiyama
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